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"I'll say it again, being anti-western policy, doesn't necessarily mean Pro-Terrorism." - a quote from your last post. I really didn't feel that I was claiming that anywhere.

I drew that conclusion from you labelling Liban an "extremist", although he never tried to suggest violence against the West/Westerners. He just expressed very blatantly phrased concerns, pertaining to the western government's policies.

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I simply can't believe that the West is evil

Who said the West was evil?

The only people I saw/heard describing the West as evil are those actors in the cheap B-class movies of the 80s. But then again, the media sends these subliminal messages all the time.

Some people view the western culture as "immoral", but bear in mind that a good deal of religious westerners believe the same thing.

We should draw a line between "I disagree with the western policies, and despise Western culture" and "I want to kill westerners".

Westerners despise a lot of the Islamic traditions which they find anti-freedom, anti-women's rights... etc. Am I not right? Why can't it go the other way around? Because we're absolutely right? Reaching the pinnacle of human social evolution?

Bullshit.

If -for some reason- it was the Islamic world with the military/economic might (which has nothing to do with the social/religious factor) today, we'd be having the reverse conversation. It's all a matter of perspective.

What I'm trying to outline here, is that the "Islamic Threat" is non-existent, not in the way the western media portrays it at least.

The extremists in the West, would love nothing more, than for ordinary individuals like you and me, to view every muslim in our community as a potential suicide-bomber, no matter how educated/englightened that person might be. Such a result ends any chance of true people-to-people dialogue, which facilitates the "plan" of absolute Western hegemony.

I don't believe that the muslim communities in the West are leaning towards extremism. Out of I don't know how many million muslims in the West, how many people actually went to Iraq/Palestine/Afghanistan to fight the Americans (which I still don't see as terrorism, since they'd be fighting against an Arny, not civilians)? Only a handful. But they've been paraded in the media over and over again to reinforce the notion of the "Islamic threat growing in our midst!!"

You said yourself that polls show that muslim support for "terrorism" is dwindling in the Arab World. How do you explain that, considering that the media attacks on the Western policies ...etc, is the fiercest here?

IF -just for the sake of the arguement- there were indeed, thousands of muslim youth being recruited to become fireworks in Baghdad, then I think that it's not indicative of the nature of Islam/Muslims, but an indication of the ghettos they've been forced to live in, in Europe.

Ignorance + Hunger = Golden recipe for fanaticsm.

Many of the good french schools (for example), still have very minute "quotas" for "immigrant" students. That is discrimination and racism at their unholy zenith.

If these people didn't turn to religious extremism, they'd turn to crime. And that is very visible as well.

The media in the West IS biased. It doesn't make up stories (although sometimes it does). But it focuses on the negative aspects in 99% of the time.

Imagine a so-called independent newspaper in Canada, that ONLY publishes stories about rape, crime, corruption, terrorism, and every other negative phenomenon in the Canadian society. You -as a canadian- would find it strange that a newspaper would do such thing, and you might label it as biased. But if that newspaper was ...say... Americans' only way of knowing about Canada, then you shouldn't be surprised that Americans would have negative opinions about Canada.

It's the same for muslims. Our media has been smearing them for centuries. When was the last time you saw a piece of news that would give you a positive opinion about anything Islamic or Arab?

Is it possible that NOTHING good ever comes out from one fifth of the globe?

The reasons for this bias are long, and I'd get into them in detail later on (if the need arises).

Linda I do agree with quite a bit of what you are saying, and I am starting to see that perhaps my current viewpoints about terrorism and terrorists are a result of paying too much attention to the negative articles from the news media. I don't think I am the only one doing this though, because there are also Arab citizens who believe the negative propaganda about the West as well.

Linda said, What I'm trying to outline here, is that the "Islamic Threat" is non-existent, not in the way the western media portrays it at least. "
Why isn't this message getting out? More importantly, how can this message be spread? Also, who should be responsible for getting this message out?

It seems to me that media from every country love to report negative news because it is more shocking and newsworthy and sells more papers. The Arab media (what I can read in English) is constantly emphasising the negatives about Israel and the West, just as the same is going on in the West about other countries. Let's be fair!

Throughout history all kinds of civilisations thought themselves superior to what they consider less powerful civilisations. This brought difficulties in relations, and suppression and war. It is sad to see this continuing, and I will certainly try to re-think my view on things.

You mentioned in your last post some areas where different cultures might clash, like views on immorality and women's rights. I am not religious, but I definitely think that there is a lot of rot developing in my own culture. Look at the reality shows that broadcast young people getting drunk and having sex with or fooling around with many people. Not exactly a positive message to youth. There is a lot of fashion in the West that I consider too revealing. With the exception of bathing suits at the beach, why do we need to go to the mall and see someone's butt cheeks hanging out the back of shorts or a skirt, and why do we need see-through dresses and tops with necklines that plunge to the bellybutton?

I'm a believer in free speech, but it does get abused. What on earth makes people want to watch Jerry Springer or Maury Povich, which show a bunch of uneducated people with major social problems. What is with The Osbournes and Jackass - that show more disfunctional people saying and doing stupid things. There is some kind of weird psychology to it, but in the end the result is the dumbing down of the culture.

When it comes to women's rights, I don't consider wearing an Abaya as a suppression of rights as long as it is the woman's choice to wear it or not. If a religious woman wants to cover herself so that she doesn't attract the attention of men, that is fine. It is always a bit annoying to see a man wearing shorts and a fitted t-shirt on a hot day, while his wife is covered in long black cloth from head to toe. It just doesn't seem fair that he exposes his limbs and body for women to see, yet his wife has to cover everything. I suppose that is their business though...

In Saudi Arabia I think it is a shame that women can't drive a car, but I don't have to live there. If I did, I'd follow the rules.

In some countries and cultural communities honour killings are acceptable, as is forced circumcision, and forced arranged marriages. In my culture those would be viewed as barbaric and old-fashioned.

Even less significant traditions can cause some cultures to feel more civilised than another. For example, did you read the amusing letter in 7days that talked about the practice of slaughtering goats for Eid in the Springs? I can't believe the woman wrote it. She thought it was ing and upsetting to everyone else that the goats were slaughtered "in an upscale neighbourhood like the Springs". Hey, we are living in a culture where this is accepted and it is not less civilised to do so. Killing an animal for meat isn't pretty, whether it is done in a backyard or an abatoir. That woman really needs to get some perspective.

Every culture has traditions that are misunderstood or completely contrary to the practices of other cultures. People need to understand and respect the differences if possible. (Though I can admit that I would never have respect for a family that kills one of their family members for a perceived wrong-doing or failure to marry a chosen person. I have limits )

Quote:Every culture has traditions that are misunderstood or completely contrary to the practices of other cultures. People need to understand and respect the differences if possible.

Absolutely! To learn about other cultures is more than just being a voyeur,say, as a tourist is in a country. Living in a country is a great opportunity to really understand some one else's culture. I lived with a Muslim family many years ago-people are just peple and they were and still are great people. It is an interesting religion and peaceful.
Religion doesn't have to be an underlying factor in friendship. Hate is learned and based on misconceptions and ignorance. I find it inconceivable (and naively so I guess) that people pass on their fears about other cultures to their children-perpetuating an endless circle of hate. Just remeber too that posting a whole bunch of web page references doesn't give creedance to your argument. I could point you to a whole bunch of stuff on the web-stats, medical evidence etc that supports circumcision in males. Why stir up a hornets nest where people feel an obligation to be outraged and then they can post all the sources that state it is medically non-essential etc. ?
The best research on a topic like this one (topic of this thread) is real life. My little rant. Finished.

Some good points in there GAB. I'd still like to point out that this thread was meant for discussion. Why are you trying to silence anyone who wants to discuss in it? If you don't like it, don't post in this thread, but leave the rest of us to talk if we wish. If you can't see any benefit coming from these discussions I am sorry, but I certainly feel like I am learning. It would be nice to hear more views, not just Linda and I doing all the talking.

Linda I do agree with quite a bit of what you are saying, and I am starting to see that perhaps my current viewpoints about terrorism and terrorists are a result of paying too much attention to the negative articles from the news media.

I'm glad I was able to present a different opinion to the discourse, always enlightening to have discussions like these. Sadly not everybody is willing to genuinely have a constructive dialogue, like you did.

I don't think I am the only one doing this though, because there are also Arab citizens who believe the negative propaganda about the West as well.

I completely agree, and think that a major reformation in the way Arab media addresses the West, is in order.

We must keep in mind though, that:

1-The Arab "propaganda" is not really harmful to the West, since apart from influential channels such as Al-Jazeera, the Arab world possesses no real weapons in it's arsenal, to further it's desired "policy" on the ground. They're almost like a goat on Eid waiting for the slaughter..... whining in their media is all they can do.

On the other hand, if the western populations believed the stuff their media spewes, wars could go with their consent, which happened and is continuing to happen. And that is extremely devastating for the Arab/Islamic world.

2-It is very hard for the Arab media, to be impartial in its coverage, when the negative aspects of the western policies is affecting the Arab/Islamic world on a daily basis. I don't really blame them for the "negative" coverage, because what they cover is not emphazised.... it is truly what is relevant to their plight.

a-The west supports some of the most ruthless dictatorships in the Arab world.

b-The West created and helped ensure the survival of an alien state (Israel) of which the repercussions are still echoing today. Everytime an Arab sees a Palestinian (brother) anywhere, he/she is reminded of the western bias.

c-Iraq, Syria, Sudan ....and more.

Wheres the context of making stories about how wonderful the West is, when it's irrelevant to the Arab/Muslim mind, considering the factors I mentioned above.

Arabs/Muslims naturally blame western populations on some level, and we should blmae ourselves too, since our governments' policies don't spring out of thin air, they are democratic entities of which we should have control over, or else what are we doing trying to shove that model down the world's throat, if we ourselves have no real control over them?

Do we have the illusion of democracy? Since most of the candidates have been picked out by the corporations anyway? And the really good ones don't have money to get on the media and for us to know about them? But that's another issue.

Why isn't this message getting out? More importantly, how can this message be spread? Also, who should be responsible for getting this message out?

1-Because the current in our culture that advocates peace and harmony has been under fierce attacks. The wing that believes in war/clash of civilizations is the one in charge.

2-Because of continuous villification of Islam and Muslims going on since the Crusades, it's a natural series of events to lead to this animosity.

3-Because Islam is a useful "demon" for those who wish no peace. Or else how can we justify this huge arsenal the West has after the fall of USSR?

4-Because we need a foreign enemy to divert our attention from our own society's inequities.

5-Because The West as a "loose" front would disintegrate into quarreling entities, if it weren't for new "unifying" enemies.

I think that the notion of Islamic terrorism and threat is beyond repair in the USA. But there is hope in Europe. I think that muslim communities in Europe should bite the bullet and do much more to let out this message. Also some of our own enlightened "elite" should be up to the task of reversing this sickening growing fundamentalism in Europe. I mean almost every EU country has seen an unimaginable rise in Right Wing parties. It would be hard to imagine that happening without the act of scaring people shitless of muslims.

You can do a small part (Like I try to do) in talking about it with the western expats here in Dubai.... They'll go back to their countries at one point. Hopefully with a more balanced view.

The Arab media (what I can read in English) is constantly emphasising the negatives about Israel and the West, just as the same is going on in the West about other countries. Let's be fair!

Already replied to that in the start. Israel -as far as Arabs and Muslims go- is a state that kicked a part of them out of their country, and established a reign of blood and fire..... What should they be reporting about it?

Throughout history all kinds of civilisations thought themselves superior to what they consider less powerful civilisations. This brought difficulties in relations, and suppression and war. It is sad to see this continuing, and I will certainly try to re-think my view on things.

I agree.

It's funny, but industrial/economic might is what enhances, and sometimes even creates this sense of superiority. Asia's motto in the 60s (apart from China) was following the West's ways and abolishing the hindering factors (their original Asian local beliefs).

Nevertheless, as soon as the boom happened, we saw a reverse. And Asian leaders (and people) saw this as an indication of Asian/Eastern superiority to the West.

"Gone are the days when the West sneezing, would give Asia a flu" is one bellowing statments made by Malaysia's PM during the peak of their growth.

You mentioned in your last post some areas where different cultures might clash, like views on immorality and women's rights. I am not religious, but I definitely think that there is a lot of rot developing in my own culture. Look at the reality shows that broadcast young people getting drunk and having fun with or fooling around with many people. Not exactly a positive message to youth. There is a lot of fashion in the West that I consider too revealing. With the exception of bathing suits at the beach, why do we need to go to the mall and see someone's butt cheeks hanging out the back of shorts or a skirt, and why do we need see-through dresses and tops with necklines that plunge to the bellybutton?

Hmm .... I think that it's each to their own. I just think that you should handle whatever consequences your choice of lifestyle entitles.

But I do agree that it seems that a major part of the Western youth are becoming more and more vain.

I shake my head in sorrow everytime an Arab youth (even if someone who might be a drinker/adulterer) sits before me and goes on and on about his nation's plight, and explains the factors/consequences ....etc etc, when at the same time, his peer in Europe/US is worrying about the next rave party, or whether Brad and Jen are staying together or breaking up. Our youth is apathetic and pathetic. I do not exclude myself. If it weren't for getting engaged to an Arab man, I think that I would have probably stayed away from these very important issues affecting our lives today. I used to work like a mule from Monday to Friday, only waiting to get shitfaced on the weekend, repeat cycle. At the same time relishing at the notion of my "kind's" superiority. How stupid. How misled.

I'm a believer in free speech, but it does get abused. What on earth makes people want to watch Jerry Springer or Maury Povich, which show a bunch of uneducated people with major social problems. What is with The Osbournes and Jackass - that show more disfunctional people saying and doing stupid things. There is some kind of weird psychology to it, but in the end the result is the dumbing down of the culture.

I agree. And it's sad that what used to be "enlightened" and "sophisticated" Europe is following suite.

When it comes to women's rights, I don't consider wearing an Abaya as a suppression of rights as long as it is the woman's choice to wear it or not. If a religious woman wants to cover herself so that she doesn't attract the attention of men, that is fine. It is always a bit annoying to see a man wearing shorts and a fitted t-shirt on a hot day, while his wife is covered in long black cloth from head to toe. It just doesn't seem fair that he exposes his limbs and body for women to see, yet his wife has to cover everything. I suppose that is their business though...

No it's not fair. I think muslims have their share of social/tradition-opposed-to-Islam problems for them to solve. I know a gay local, who enjoys the most extreme of gay-sex "fetishism", but who said -nevertheless- that he wouldn't go with his wife (future wife) to a mixed gathering, even if she was wearing her Hijab. Now that's retarded. And I'm saying this because every non-local muslim sitting there almost jumped to beat this guy up. It's a twisted adherence to "traditions", when Islam came to eradicate false traditions in the first place.

I'm not saying the above is the rule, but I do think that a lot of people should have more courage to follow what they think is right.

In Saudi Arabia I think it is a shame that women can't drive a car, but I don't have to live there. If I did, I'd follow the rules.

Retarded as well. And has no basis in Islam, since women even at the Prophet Mohammed's days used to go to war with men, riding on their camels ...etc. I think it's just chauvinistic male behaviour.

In some countries and cultural communities honour killings are acceptable, as is forced circumcision, and forced arranged marriages. In my culture those would be viewed as barbaric and old-fashioned

1-Forced female circumcision has been outlawed/banned by the congregation of Islamic scholars a while back. But like I said, these traditions are hard to kill. Even before that "fatwa" the phenomenon was not widespread and only limited to some areas of Africa, where Pagans. muslims, and christians did it alike.

I don't think you were referring to male circumcision were you?

2-Arranged marriages have got to go. And again, it has no basis in Islam. A clear independent YES by both the bride-to-be and groom-to-be is required for the marriage to be authentic in Islam.

Even less significant traditions can cause some cultures to feel more civilised than another. For example, did you read the amusing letter in 7days that talked about the practice of slaughtering goats for Eid in the Springs? I can't believe the woman wrote it. She thought it was ing and upsetting to everyone else that the goats were slaughtered "in an upscale neighbourhood like the Springs". Hey, we are living in a culture where this is accepted and it is not less civilised to do so. Killing an animal for meat isn't pretty, whether it is done in a backyard or an abatoir. That woman really needs to get some perspective.

I live in the Springs, but have no idea about that story. It's so annoying to see this brand of self-centrism and gigly-head bimboism. I'll check on it, and maybe give her a piece of my mind if I could identify her. Where does the idiot think that all the meat products she eats come from?

Though I can admit that I would never have respect for a family that kills one of their family members for a perceived wrong-doing or failure to marry a chosen person. I have limits )

Also against Islam. Everybody is to be trialled for his/her own sins, and it's no body else's business. Honour-killing is only valid in Jordan I think. And it's easy to see why. It's a way for a king with an english mom who can't even speak Arabic correctly, and who's the West's puppet (while being a ruthless dictator by the way) to indulge the ancient and chauvinist traditions to safe-guard his rule in a tribal setting.

Linda,

You do seem to have a very jaundiced view of the western media. While there is no doubt good and bad journalism everywhere - and I can't vouch for your country of birth - in the UK there are several extremely good, balanced and responsible newspapers such as the Independent, Guardian and Observer.

Because it is a free press, newspapers such as these analyse, dissect and investigate all aspects of Government policy in a very critical way. This includes attitudes and policies towards the Islamic world. And this also includes issues surrounding Iraq and the Palestinian question. Readers are able to get a very clear idea of what is going on and the facts are presented very carefully and responsibly... and critically.

The other side of the coin is that such press freedom does not always exist in Arab countries and the important issues are not always presented in the way I have described above. Indeed the UAE is one of the better nations in this respect but still has major restrictions on its newspapers which make it a frustrating job for a good journalist wanting to get at the important stories and see them in print.

Everyone knows, for instance, that Dubai is teeming with interesting material - such as the labour camps, money-laundering and people trafficking, to name but a few - but they are often no-go areas. Newspapers who step out of line here and get hold of some of the delicate issues and tackle them in a robust and investigative manner would quickly find themselves subject to a state crackdown. And the situation with the media is much worse in other Arab countries.

I think you need a little more balance on this subject.

GoodBai, nice to see you posting here. I was starting to think you were one of those annoying types of people who start up controversial threads, then hide away to watch all the action.

"Annoying".... yes! "

"Hiding".... no!

It's mostly just a question of finding the time, particularly when it comes to some of the more detailed 'War And Peace' length discussions .

GoodBai wrote:The other side of the coin is that such press freedom does not always exist in Arab countries and the important issues are not always presented in the way I have described above. Indeed the UAE is one of the better nations in this respect but still has major restrictions on its newspapers which make it a frustrating job for a good journalist wanting to get at the important stories and see them in print.

Everyone knows, for instance, that Dubai is teeming with interesting material - such as the labour camps, money-laundering and people trafficking, to name but a few - but they are often no-go areas. Newspapers who step out of line here and get hold of some of the delicate issues and tackle them in a robust and investigative manner would quickly find themselves subject to a state crackdown. And the situation with the media is much worse in other Arab countries.

I think you need a little more balance on this subject.

A very good point Good bhai, freedom of speech and writng is suppressed in the whole Middle East.

sniper420 wrote:
A very good point Good bhai, freedom of speech and writng is suppressed in the whole Middle East.

As of April 30th 2005, feedom of speech exists in Lebanon. Palestine has a somewhat liberal press. Morocco is inching towards that.

Liban wrote:

sniper420 wrote:
A very good point Good bhai, freedom of speech and writng is suppressed in the whole Middle East.

As of April 30th 2005, feedom of speech exists in Lebanon. Palestine has a somewhat liberal press. Morocco is inching towards that.

Well it comes at a cost. A reputed Lebanese journalist was killed-as usual blamed on Syrians.

A very good point Good bhai, freedom of speech and writng is suppressed in the whole Middle East.

Also at Dubaiforum.com

sniper ,you shouldnt be talking about freedom of speech , the way you understand freedom of speech is quite different . Every country has some special rules and it doesnt mean they are restricting freedom of speech. Let say if Dubai let the freedom of speech ,everyday Pakistani will protest against India and Arab will protest to kick out Jewish or other white people from country . Some times Governments have to take measure in order to stop mishap in society.

The world is worried about Iraq ,Afghanistan and philistine and the top news on BBC is “whale in thames”. What I mean is that only certain countries use the media and other country doesn’t have access t it , so where is the damn freedom of speech?

When a Arab network rise the voice of arab then US even plan to attack on its headquarter in Qatar.

Let say u have freedom of speech in UK ,can u write anything against British Queen?

HP wrote:

A very good point Good bhai, freedom of speech and writng is suppressed in the whole Middle East.

Let say u have freedom of speech in UK ,can u write anything against British Queen? no u cant because she is pious cow of British people

HP

I am only going to be factual, and not give any form of opinion. When you post, either ask a question or at least have the good manners to get your facts correct.

Indeed, our press regularly speak ill of our Monarchy. In fact most weeks the press have a go and critise any one or maybe more of the royal family.

Even so, the level of any disrespect shown to them in any of our newspapers, do not come any where near to how disrespectful you have referred to the Queen in your post.

HP i do not know your nationality, but however i, or any respectful person felt towards the leader or head of state of your country, it could never come anywhere near as personal and distasteful as you speak.

You should be ashamed of yourself.

sorry dear ,i didnt know that you were so sensitive about Queen ,my appology :0)

Well i am from Pakistan and you are free to talk about our head of state.We do not worship him and if i have guts ,i ll try to answer u :0)

HP

I am not particulary sensitive about the Queen. I am sensitive to the way you write as disrespectfully as you do, whether it be the Queen or anyone else.

MY point about your head of state is: whether i like them or not, i would not talk or refer to them as you do about others.

arniegang wrote:HP

I am not particulary sensitive about the Queen. I am sensitive to the way you write as disrespectfully as you do, whether it be the Queen or anyone else.

MY point about your head of state is: whether i like them or not, i would not talk or refer to them as you do about others.

Sweetheart ,

its kinda joke in Pak ,when we are not allowed to speak about a person then we always ask" if he or she is pious cow" .

Cow is quite respectable animal in India and they also worship cow and no one is allowed to slaughter it

The hero of one country is mostly the villain of another country,so you should expect such kind of remarks . For example how many people talk about Bush? Are u gonna shut all mouths?

The point I was making is that in the UK there is the freedom to investigate and publish highly critical material about just about whatever or whoever you want. Whether that is the Royal family, Blair, Bush, the policy in Iraq, the Palestinian question.

Government policy on just about everything is thoroughly dissected, investigated and criticised on a daily basis. And that is why you will find there are many people in the UK who against British troops being in Iraq (as well as those who support it) and many who sympathise greatly with the Palestinians (as well as those who side with Israel). And I get the feeling that many people in Arab nations just don't know that.

There isn't the indirect or direct censorship that you find in some of the Arab countries. That is an indisputable fact and it means that people in a place like the UK are much more easily able to get at the truth of the big, important and controversial issues than those people in some of the Arab nations are. Things have improved in the UAE but anyone who has worked in the media within this state will tell you that they still have to operate with one hand tied behind their backs. That is the truth and it is much worse in other Arab states.

Well put GB

Another thing to consider especially on cable and Sat TV in the middle east, is that a lot of the programmes on the History and Discovery channels for example are censored, and do not trasmit the same as the channels we receive in Europe.

I have also noticed that in the last year, all the adverts have been removed. Also Sky News now has to produce a different version to broadcast in the middle east. They have even removed the "time stamp" so no one can know if it is being broadcast in "tandem" with the UK.

So in fairness to all the population that watch TV in the middle east, they cannot possibly know this.

arniegang wrote:Well put GB

Another thing to consider especially on cable and Sat TV in the middle east, is that a lot of the programmes on the History and Discovery channels for example are censored, and do not trasmit the same as the channels we receive in Europe.

I have also noticed that in the last year, all the adverts have been removed. Also Sky News now has to produce a different version to broadcast in the middle east. They have even removed the "time stamp" so no one can know if it is being broadcast in "tandem" with the UK.

So in fairness to all the population that watch TV in the middle east, they cannot possibly know this.

I used to read at this forum

if you dont like the rules then go back to your own countries :0) ,its so simple instead of boiling your blood all the time .

With respect HP, making an observation that Western media has more freedom to print different and critical points of view than media outlets in many of the Arab nations (or elsewhere), doesn't mean we should have to go back to our own countries.

kanelli wrote:With respect HP, making an observation that Western media has more freedom to print different and critical points of view than media outlets in many of the Arab nations (or elsewhere), doesn't mean we should have to go back to our own countries.

i didnt know it was obseravation ,i thought it was complain,so again sorry :0) . But one has to admit that freedom of speech doesnt exist in Gulf states ,the reason culd be " these countries or states belong to individual families ".

When one dies then another ( bin) or dust bin takes over without election or public opinion. [/u]

This attitude of "Go home if you don't like it" really irks me and it's usually used by those without rational argument when they are backed into a corner.

Surely it's a good thing for people to hear different views and ways of doing things from around the world. And it's only by questioning things and looking at how they can be done differently that change is effected. This is one of the ways in which the UAE has moved forward and adapted.

It seems to me that the "Go home" brigade are the intransigent ones with their fingers stuck in their ears in the face of any argument they don't like, whether it makes sense or not.

Well said Kanelli and GB. I think HP has a agenda on this forum, what it is, who knows?

arniegang wrote:Well said Kanelli and GB. I think HP has a agenda on this forum, what it is, who knows?

Hidden agenda