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kanelli wrote:Is Arabic an easy language to learn? Anyone studying it right now?

I'm studying it now, I'm having difficulty with it but like anything you can learn it just time, dedication and practice.

kelly1966 wrote:I see you never came back with anything from the Bible proving your so called facts..............I felt that you were trying to make a point about something, although I don't know where you got your information.

All I have to say is that no one religion is any better than any other. It is our choice what and who we believe and and not to condemn anyone for their beliefs or push another religion in another person's face.

1) The Quran is where I get my information from. The original bible no longer exists and the current one has been changed too much for me to look into it unfortunatly.

2) I agree. But speaking of a religion is good and not "pushing it into one's face".

fayz wrote:

kanelli wrote:Is Arabic an easy language to learn? Anyone studying it right now?

I'm studying it now, I'm having difficulty with it but like anything you can learn it just time, dedication and practice.

Admitatly, fayz, it is harder to learn than English. Kinda like learning French, 'cause that too is a hard language...

I think Russian and Finnish are very difficult, although it helps that words are spelled exactly how they are pronounced. I hope to start some Arabic classes within the next few months.

kanelli wrote:I think Russian and Finnish are very difficult, although it helps that words are spelled exactly how they are pronounced. I hope to start some Arabic classes within the next few months.

Kewl

1) The Quran is where I get my information from. The original bible no longer exists and the current one has been changed too much for me to look into it unfortunatly.

2) I agree. But speaking of a religion is good and not "pushing it into one's face"

Listen, from now on you should practice what you preach and stop pushing what you believe!!!!! in other peoples faces.....those "so called" facts are your beliefs not mine, and I'm offended by you saying that the original Bible doesn't exist, and Jesus was never crucified. I have respected and listened to what you had to say about your religion and have never once tried to correct or change your opinion regarding the Muslim beliefs to you and I'd appreciate the same in return.

Its a fact that the original bible no longer exists. It was burned and destroyed and scattered long before the current King James version came into being.

I am not slamming anything or anyone at all!!! Its simply a fact. Read it up...

There are no facts in the Bible saying that Jesus wasn't actually crucified, and that they never ate pork, and that he is not the "Son of God". That is what Christians believe.

You were stating facts from the Quran like I said which is what you believe in not me, and as I said earlier, I don't appreciate you claiming that what you believe in is right and the Christian religion is wrong.

I'm not going to continue arguing with you over this anymore as you only see what you believe in as being correct. You must remember that there is more than one religion in this world and you're not always right although you come across like you think you are. Enough said!

Liban wrote:Its a fact that the original bible no longer exists. It was burned and destroyed and scattered long before the current King James version came into being.

I am not slamming anything or anyone at all!!! Its simply a fact. Read it up...

I think you may actually be incorrect on the original bible issue as well. I am sure i will be corrected if i am wrong, but the "dead sea scrolls" are part of the original bible text.

I probably think this thread is now off topic and straying into a comparitive religous territory!

Arniegang - a good website (a Christian website) that deals with the Bible and comments on the origins and various texts is www.bibletexts.com - there you can see what Christians themselves say about their holy book.

The Dead Sea Scrolls don't actually contain extant (complete) texts of any of the books in the Bible - but do contain contemporary records from the time of Jesus. Interestingly, none talk of the doctrine of Christianity that Jesus was Son of God and came to die on the cross.

The "Bible", as we know it, was only combined into a book form at the Council of Nicea at which time there were 100s of gospels in existence. The Council decided which ones would form the true Bible and which gospels would not. Christians will argue that the Council merely codified what the Christians already believed.

Christians teach that the earliest gospel was written some 60 years after Jesus' ministry in Palestine and 3 of the authors had never met Jesus. If you open up any Bible and look at the last verses of Mark's Gospel, you will see the commentary that says that these verses were later additions... one of many that Christians agree are in the Bible.

What Muslims tend to do is contrast these facts with the facts about the accuracy and lineage of the Quran. But I won't go down that route.. everyone is ultimately free to believe in what they want to believe. What I have stated above I hope are historical facts that no one will dispute. If I am mistaken in any part of the post, then I am more than willing to be corrected.

Cheers,
Shafique

Irrespective of what is said and who believes what, we all evolved from APES!

There was NO man, only APES and over time we have evolved and changed to become what we are today.

yorky500 wrote:Irrespective of what is said and who believes what, we all evolved from APES!

There was NO man, only APES and over time we have evolved and changed to become what we are today.

Good point Yorky.

......... thanks Shaf - great website

what about the Gay marriage ,is it mentioned in Bible ? if not then why churchs allow it ?

kelly1966 wrote:1) The Quran is where I get my information from. The original bible no longer exists and the current one has been changed too much for me to look into it unfortunatly.

2) I agree. But speaking of a religion is good and not "pushing it into one's face"

Listen, from now on you should practice what you preach and stop pushing what you believe!!!!! in other peoples faces.....those "so called" facts are your beliefs not mine, and I'm offended by you saying that the original Bible doesn't exist, and Jesus was never crucified. I have respected and listened to what you had to say about your religion and have never once tried to correct or change your opinion regarding the Muslim beliefs to you and I'd appreciate the same in return.

Well Liban is right kelly. the original Bible doesnt really exist. If you see the Bible they got from Ethopia (original followers of Christianity migrated to Africa along with the tablet containing "TEN Commandments") they are numerous diffrences. I am really surprised that you arent aware. U can get loads of sources in library and internet.

yorky500 wrote:Irrespective of what is said and who believes what, we all evolved from APES!

There was NO man, only APES and over time we have evolved and changed to become what we are today.

Alrite Yorky, u are starting another controversial topic- all the three major monotheist religions deny the so called evolution. Take for example if we evolved from apes y ddint other apes evolve? Why is HP still an ape?

shafique wrote:I probably think this thread is now off topic and straying into a comparitive religous territory!

Arniegang - a good website (a Christian website) that deals with the Bible and comments on the origins and various texts is www.bibletexts.com - there you can see what Christians themselves say about their holy book.

The Dead Sea Scrolls don't actually contain extant (complete) texts of any of the books in the Bible - but do contain contemporary records from the time of Jesus. Interestingly, none talk of the doctrine of Christianity that Jesus was Son of God and came to die on the cross.

The "Bible", as we know it, was only combined into a book form at the Council of Nicea at which time there were 100s of gospels in existence. The Council decided which ones would form the true Bible and which gospels would not. Christians will argue that the Council merely codified what the Christians already believed.

Christians teach that the earliest gospel was written some 60 years after Jesus' ministry in Palestine and 3 of the authors had never met Jesus. If you open up any Bible and look at the last verses of Mark's Gospel, you will see the commentary that says that these verses were later additions... one of many that Christians agree are in the Bible.

What Muslims tend to do is contrast these facts with the facts about the accuracy and lineage of the Quran. But I won't go down that route.. everyone is ultimately free to believe in what they want to believe. What I have stated above I hope are historical facts that no one will dispute. If I am mistaken in any part of the post, then I am more than willing to be corrected.

Cheers,
Shafique

Good and brief sources Shaf! Well I am amazed many Christians believe that Bible is original! Well there are numerous books and controversies saying the Bible has been changed example the best seller book - Da Vinci Code claims Jesus did marry Mary Magdelane and Paul disliked her so he didnt include her in the Gospels. And numerous Gospels came up after the death of Jesus which had numerous differences. Quran states ppl who changed the books of God -Torah and Bible were done by ppl of power -Kings and priests to thier advantages and they will be severely dealt with... I am sure they are having good time now in messing up with the message of God.

The church does not allow gay marriages the government allows gay marriages and sodom and gommorah will give you an example of why God says that it is a sin for a man to sleep with another man or a woman to sleep with another woman. Man was created t procreate.

shafique wrote:What Muslims tend to do is contrast these facts with the facts about the accuracy and lineage of the Quran. But I won't go down that route.. everyone is ultimately free to believe in what they want to believe. What I have stated above I hope are historical facts that no one will dispute. If I am mistaken in any part of the post, then I am more than willing to be corrected.

Yes I am aware that the original Bible was destroyed, I am not disputing this, but the words were never destroyed. The disciples brought it forth to their followers.

Maybe Liban should take heed as to the what Shafique has just said. She hit the nail right on the head......the above quote is exactly what he is trying to do. He should be more careful as to his so called beliefs and facts. I'm not trying to start something here with him, but he needs to have some respect for what other people believe in and realize that what he says regarding the Bible and Jesus etc, really affects people who truly believe this, and that he is not ALWAYS right like he thinks he is.

Also, to clarify one thing, the churches aren't the one's who allow the gay marriages, it's the government.

Shafique vs liban well the mentality should be obvious, apparently she is very well versed in what she is saying and is quite well read, deserves to be commended as such. Well done!! Now teach your "brother" liban how to get a point across to other religions without appearing to be illiterate and not well versed in such matters.

Lets burn a fire and Liban will stand in fire with Quaran and Kelly will do the same wid bible and we will see

: who is true:

what u say people ?

LOL

HP wrote:Lets burn a fire and Liban will stand in fire with Quaran and Kelly will do the same wid bible and we will see

: who is true:

what u say people ?

Dont make fun of religion

shafique wrote:The Quran says that Islam is the final religion and no new religion is required.

If you go to the tread 'Tragedy in Mecca' you will find I have explained the Islamic stance vis-a-vis earlier religions (that they are all valid, but were limited in time and space. All these religions state that a new reformer and new law was to come in future. Islam makes the claim of being the fulfilment of all these promises.)

Take care.

Wasalaam,
Shafique

i think u did not read my full message....i asked whether every prophets or messenger has come with different different religion ? ex. Jesus (PBUH) has brought Christianity as religion or islam ? Moos (PBUH) brought ?Jewism as religion or islam ?

How dare you chastise me for making fun of religion - I was laughing at the way the former text was worded not intended to laugh at religion -
If you read it that way then that is your problem.

Read before thou openest thy mouth.

wolfsievers wrote:How dare you chastise me for making fun of religion - I was laughing at the way the former text was worded not intended to laugh at religion -
If you read it that way then that is your problem.

Read before thou openest thy mouth.

i think u are not reading well...to who i said my words ? its pointing to u or HP ?

kelly1966 wrote:There are no facts in the Bible saying that Jesus wasn't actually crucified, and that they never ate pork, and that he is not the "Son of God". That is what Christians believe.

You were stating facts from the Quran like I said which is what you believe in not me, and as I said earlier, I don't appreciate you claiming that what you believe in is right and the Christian religion is wrong.

I'm not going to continue arguing with you over this anymore as you only see what you believe in as being correct. You must remember that there is more than one religion in this world and you're not always right although you come across like you think you are. Enough said!

Fine, don't research the facts that are out there.... Your loss.

kelly1966 wrote:
Also, to clarify one thing, the churches aren't the one's who allow the gay marriages, it's the government.

I beg to differ on that. Yes, in Catholisicm and mainstream Orthodoxy and Protestanism you are correct.

But more and more "subbranches" (not sure what they are called, sorry) allow for gay priest and unions of gays.

HP wrote:Lets burn a fire and Liban will stand in fire with Quaran and Kelly will do the same wid bible and we will see

: who is true:

what u say people ?

I will just want to add HP, that if you were a true Muslim (which obviously you are not), you would know that the Quran will not save me in this case.

1) The Quran is the Words of God. Not God Himself.
2) Putting faith in the Quran as an object of protection rather than using it as the Book of God carrying His Words and Commandments which are to be obeyed, is idolatory.
3) Reckless acts leading to your death or simply self-pain is against Islam so God ain;'t gonna help you if you sin this way either buddy

kelly1966 wrote:

shafique wrote:What Muslims tend to do is contrast these facts with the facts about the accuracy and lineage of the Quran. But I won't go down that route.. everyone is ultimately free to believe in what they want to believe. What I have stated above I hope are historical facts that no one will dispute. If I am mistaken in any part of the post, then I am more than willing to be corrected.

Yes I am aware that the original Bible was destroyed, I am not disputing this, but the words were never destroyed. The disciples brought it forth to their followers.

Maybe Liban should take heed as to the what Shafique has just said. She hit the nail right on the head......the above quote is exactly what he is trying to do. He should be more careful as to his so called beliefs and facts. I'm not trying to start something here with him, but he needs to have some respect for what other people believe in and realize that what he says regarding the Bible and Jesus etc, really affects people who truly believe this, and that he is not ALWAYS right like he thinks he is.

Also, to clarify one thing, the churches aren't the one's who allow the gay marriages, it's the government.

OK if u belive that original bible is destroyed but the words are not then i m asking u one question....
do u accept and belive that Jesus (PBUH) is son of GOD ?

if he is son of God then how God can allow his son to be died ? God has no birth and no death...how the son of God can die ? God cannot eat or sleep ...how the son of God can eat and sleep ?

Ah but you forget that Jesus was resurrected! The son of God made the ultimate sacrifice, but asked god to forgive those who persucuted and crucified him for their actions. God sent Jesus - his son - as the ultimate gift to mankind to teach people the error of their ways and show them how to live good and proper lives.

Jews and Muslims do not believe Jesus was the son of God, but a prophet.

One fundamental difference between Islam and Christianity is that muslims follow more of an honour system for living their lives, whereas I think Christianity looks more at being forgiven for ones sins, should you have committed any throughout your life.

Anyway I'm agnostic so all this doesn't mean much to me.