Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai General Chat

Del wrote:http://www.guardian.co.uk/artanddesign/2009/feb/09/dubai-architecture-greer

Paste it in so people will read it:

If Monaco is, in Jack Nicholson's phrase, Alcatraz for the rich, what shall we make of Dubai? Dubai is a city built between the desert and the pale blue sea, that uses more water per capita than anywhere else in the world, and derives 97% of it from desalination, which means that it is the most expensive water in the world. Much of that water is being used to create a garden in the desert. All across the sprawling conurbation, labourers can be seen planting out millions, possibly billions, of bedding plants, into sand banks perpetually moistened by drip irrigation. Dubai has been built on the premise that nothing succeeds like excess.

After years of popping in and out of Dubai airport on my way to and from Australia, this time I deliberately managed my travel itinerary so that I had a long layover, four hours of which I spent on the open top of a double-decker bus that wandered from Deira City Centre through the Wafi Mall, round the World Trade Centre, down to the Jumeira Beach Road and past Dubai World, before doubling back past the Mall of the Emirates and downtown Dubai.

Only 6% of Dubai's revenue comes from oil; the city makes most of its money out of inventing, creating, building and trading real estate. Hence Sheikh Mohammed bin Rashid Al Maktoum's hubristic notion of building an archipelago out of sand dredged from the Persian Gulf, 300 islets arranged in a resemblance of the world map, and calling it Dubai World. Thousands of workers trucked in from poor countries constructed the patches of exposed sand, and the infrastructure that furnishes each with water and power. The islets have since sold for anything between US$15m and $250m apiece. It seems doubtful now that the countries and corporations that have bought into the scheme will have the resources to develop their patches of sand into themed resorts, which might be as well. We can only hope that the Irish company Larionovo, owners of the Ireland islet, never get to build their planned replica of the Giants' Causeway.

What I particularly wanted to see was the tallest building in the world, Burj Dubai, which topped out at 2,684ft on 17 January. As the bus trundled past, I hung out from under the sun canopy, peering up at this needle stuck in the buttock of the Almighty, and I noticed with a thrill of something like terror that there were cranes still working on the top of it, half a mile up in the air, supposing there was any air up there. Burj Dubai was originally meant to be entirely residential; when I saw it, it was entirely empty. The Armani residences are apparently selling at US$3,500 per sq ft and office space for rather more, but I had an eerie feeling no one would ever live there. Soaring up from that tongue of sand, with the Empty Quarter stretching away to the south, Burj Dubai seemed outrageously megalomaniacal, and defiantly worldly, a new Tower of Babel. The developer, Emaar, has lost 75% of its value on the Dubai stock exchange.

While Burj Dubai is a pretty conservative building, Burj al Arab, the huge sail-like luxury hotel built on the lines of an Arab dhow, is entirely innovative. The structure hangs from a steel exoskeleton. From the outside it is unbelievably elegant, light and clean (the interior is anything but). In afterthought, the reference to the tiny dhow seems somehow mocking. The only dhows on Dubai Creek these days take tourists on one-hour pleasure cruises. Though in Dubai you are surrounded by the poor, who labour on every building site, clean the streets and the houses, and wait on the children, they are as invisible as the plumbing. Here, there is no subsistence; here there is only shopping.

Crassest of all the real estate initiatives are the three Palms, off-shore developments of 16 branches emerging from a central trunk, enclosed within a circular breakwater, each intended to house hotels, villas, apartments, marinas, theme parks, sports facilities, and malls. At Palm Jumeira, still largely undeveloped, the water between the branches is stagnating and algae is forming along the man-made beachfront. How this will affect the dolphins that are shipped from the South Pacific to amuse the guests at the Hotel Atlantis, who pay $75 to swim with them, is anybody's guess.

In December, Nakheel, developer of the Palms, cut 15% of its workforce. Dubai's stock market has lost 70% of its value. Half of the 100 Dubai estate agents interviewed for the Christian Science Monitor in December said they had not sold a property in the previous month. Some of the unfinished buildings I saw will never be finished. Many should never have been started. For all its extravagant novelties and its masses of petunias, Dubai is a city with neither charm nor character.

hey this is emaraties bashing Mr moderator ! you are not helping the on going issue here , are you ?

sage & onion wrote:of workers trucked in from poor countries constructed the patches of exposed sand, and the infrastructure that furnishes each with water and power. The islets have since sold for anything between US$15m and $250m apiece.

funny isnt it - some sand dumped in the sea and then sold for millions inspite of having acres of land in the deserts. The most foolish concept I have seen. And the most foolish are the ones who accepted the stated value and spent their money on it.

michaeldubai wrote:

sage & onion wrote:of workers trucked in from poor countries constructed the patches of exposed sand, and the infrastructure that furnishes each with water and power. The islets have since sold for anything between US$15m and $250m apiece.

funny isnt it - some sand dumped in the sea and then sold for millions inspite of having acres of land in the deserts. The most foolish concept I have seen. And the most foolish are the ones who accepted the stated value and spent their money on it.

agree

Cackle cackle!

Obvously the tone and content expected from her, but the criticism is enough to get the Guardian banned as a publication from Dubai!

It's not particularly Emiraties bashing, it is a purely subjective view of the Dubai and I am sure few would disagree entirely with what she has said.....

I for one do not understand this concept of "views of the sea" especially in the Middle east when one has such stunning deserts and surrounds.

Why pay all that money reclaiming land (and it does cost a shed load, I have worked on lots of reclamation projects) when you have such stunning scenery not 10miles inland that can be developed for a fraction of the costs? Every visitor I have that comes to Dubai shakes their head in dismay at what is going on in the sea and yet nothing in one of its most natural landscapes - the desert.

I think it is a shame really.

yorky500 wrote:I think it is a shame really.

So do the Sheikhs down in Abu Dhabi.

Del wrote:

yorky500 wrote:I think it is a shame really.

So do the Sheikhs down in Abu Dhabi.

And anyone scuba diving off the Dubai coast.

Although other dive locations are beautiful, it is such a pain to have to always go to Fujairah or Mussandam or further. The underwater ecology has been ruined here, permanently short term, possibly long term.

Hey ho, as long as obscene amounts of money are to be made by a select few, what's the problem?!

What a beatch. But GG has always written things to stir trouble. half of what she has written is incorrect, how can anyone live in Burj if its not finished, and how can she say that the islands are islets? Dumbass

Anyway Wednesday Jones I have seen images from under the water at the the world of marine life. i have seen marine life out there with my own eyes and spoken to the nakheel divers who regularly check the breakwaters and say the area is teeming with fish and other marine life. it is nothing at the moment but it can be great

I wouldn't get too upset reading this because;

a) It is Germaine Greer which means it is guaranteed to be un-apologetically offensive to at least half of the world. She could give you directions to the post office and still manage to offend you.

b) Her main research into the city was to take Double-Decker bus tour. Seriously, she may as well have just stayed in the airport and written the article.

uaekid wrote:hey this is emaraties bashing Mr moderator ! you are not helping the on going issue here , are you ?

This was an article reproduced in its entirety from an International Newspaper. If you do not agree with the content please feel free to comment sensibly, so that we may all see and hopefully understand an opposing point of view.

What a pathetic article.This sorry old hag feels she is qualified to write an article to be published in a respected UK newspaper on Dubai on the back of spending 4 hours in a bus !
She probably decided she hated Dubai before she went anywhere near the place.
Still,it beats the other idiot who wrote another damning article on Dubai
for The Times without ever going there.He got all his info from reading travel guides and admitted it !
I dont have a problem at all with those who want to write negative reports on Dubai.Thats fine.Everyone has an opinion.I just hate the negative
reports by those who know nothing of Dubai and are already against the place from day one.

Alex2001 wrote: She probably decided she hated Dubai before she went anywhere near the place.

That's what I thought.

Alex2001 wrote:What a pathetic article.This sorry old hag feels she is qualified to write an article to be published in a respected UK newspaper on Dubai on the back of spending 4 hours in a bus !
She probably decided she hated Dubai before she went anywhere near the place.
Still,it beats the other idiot who wrote another damning article on Dubai
for The Times without ever going there.He got all his info from reading travel guides and admitted it !
I dont have a problem at all with those who want to write negative reports on Dubai.Thats fine.Everyone has an opinion.I just hate the negative
reports by those who know nothing of Dubai and are already against the place from day one.

Though she ended in negative tone......wat wrong did she write? The roads here arent pedestrian friendly.... there are many shopping malls than freaking libraries or playground for children to play.......why the hell does a gym with shitty equipment costs arm and legs....... basic infrastructure is lagging....... my gf visited Dubai from Canada, took her to best places........she was like wow...... then after she returned Canada she was like " After i returned from Dubai, I began to appreciate things in Canada, I feel pity for where u r!" LOL

uaekid wrote:hey this is emaraties bashing Mr moderator ! you are not helping the on going issue here , are you ?

Most of the world loves to hate Greer. Everyone I know will go to pains to disbelieve anything she says. nd it's not difficult, This stupid b*tch sat on her wrinkled ar*s by a six star hotel pool and on an open to bus and thinks she knows Dubai?

It's a shame the world only sees the tall buildings and the indian construction workers. I think there's more charm and character in places like Satwa, Karama, Shindaga, and these are the places that are being destroyed to 'improve' Dubai. Give a shwarma and let me sit by an abra station in Bur Dubai and watch the world, and I'm a happy man.

The West hates Dubai.Face it.There is plenty of negative crap on Dubai printed in UK papers.
I read on another forum an article written by a US journalist damning Dubai.The funny thing was she was writing for an L.A newspaper.
L.A being one of the most vulgar,shallow,excessive cities on earth.

I do however think the general public to a large extent make up their own minds about Dubai from what they read.Also,theres the old saying theres no such thing as bad publicity.

"The West hates Dubai"

That's a crashingly sweeping statement with not substance and one likely to bring all the little fat trolls out of their troll holes any moment.

Beware of befriending a troll!

Alex2001 wrote:The West hates Dubai.Face it.There is plenty of negative crap on Dubai printed in UK papers.
I read on another forum an article written by a US journalist damning Dubai.The funny thing was she was writing for an L.A newspaper.
L.A being one of the most vulgar,shallow,excessive cities on earth.

I do however think the general public to a large extent make up their own minds about Dubai from what they read.Also,theres the old saying theres no such thing as bad publicity.

What you mean is 'people hate a success story'. Not just Dubai. Vindictive, small minded, basically jealous people love to see anyone else who does well brought low. The press and other media know that, and so they dig up anything they can use to feed that mean streak in the public, as it SELLS.

Speedhump wrote:What you mean is 'people hate a success story'. Not just Dubai. Vindictive, small minded, basically jealous people love to see anyone else who does well brought low. The press and other media know that, and so they dig up anything they can use to feed that mean streak in the public, as it SELLS.

While what you say is true, I see a lot of truth in what the article says as well as many other articles that criticize Dubai. There's no denying the fact that Dubai is (was?) a hugely successful city in a region infamous for conflict and conservatism. There's also no denying the fact that Dubai has its fair share of ... let's call them "issues". Denying one aspect or the other is a favorite past time of "small minded, basically jealous people" from both sides of the issue.

Speedhump wrote:

uaekid wrote:hey this is emaraties bashing Mr moderator ! you are not helping the on going issue here , are you ?

Most of the world loves to hate Greer. Everyone I know will go to pains to disbelieve anything she says. nd it's not difficult, This stupid b*tch sat on her wrinkled ar*s by a six star hotel pool and on an open to bus and thinks she knows Dubai?

It's a shame the world only sees the tall buildings and the indian construction workers. I think there's more charm and character in places like Satwa, Karama, Shindaga, and these are the places that are being destroyed to 'improve' Dubai. Give a shwarma and let me sit by an abra station in Bur Dubai and watch the world, and I'm a happy man.

Couldn't agree more. I miss the old parts of Dubai. If you want character and culture, sadly you now have to head round some of the other Emirates to find it.

gamercowboy wrote:

Speedhump wrote:What you mean is 'people hate a success story'. Not just Dubai. Vindictive, small minded, basically jealous people love to see anyone else who does well brought low. The press and other media know that, and so they dig up anything they can use to feed that mean streak in the public, as it SELLS.

While what you say is true, I see a lot of truth in what the article says as well as many other articles that criticize Dubai. There's no denying the fact that Dubai is (was?) a hugely successful city in a region infamous for conflict and conservatism. There's also no denying the fact that Dubai has its fair share of ... let's call them "issues". Denying one aspect or the other is a favorite past time of "small minded, basically jealous people" from both sides of the issue.

I probably largely disagree. Dubai 'was' a success story? It's going through a downturn, like the rest of the world, and I guess there's no reason to believe it won't bounce back. It is geographically (timewise) ideally suited to bridge West and East, it could easily be an electronic trading centre, a banking centre, in fact any type of paper commerce for that reason. It has its own bourse now, which is only faring as badly as the rest of the world is.

Greer says that the Island/Palm etc. developments now will probably never be completed. I completely disagree with that. If renegotiation is needed to realign prices with the market then it will happen. Materials are now cheaper, construction when it happens will be cheaper. I don't think for a minute the world has turned its back on the UAE, or Dubai

Dubai knows how attract investment, and shows the right amount of tolerance to western attitudes to make us feel safe and comfortable. The economic tide will turn either later this year or next year, and it will start up again IMO. So long as it's safer than London or Miami and is tax free, what's not to attract people?

I agree there have been 'issues' but it's a young economy, you have to bite the bullet and expect that. It's not the goldrush town it was, and I think that's good. Maybe there will be a period of more steady but sustainable growth next time...

Let's wait and see

Speedhump wrote:
I probably largely disagree. Dubai 'was' a success story? It's going through a downturn, like the rest of the world

My feeling has been a little bit different for last 4 years. I thought that Dubai would be in trouble independ on the World crisis...

Dubai was very keen in attracting foreigners... So they have developed tourism and did it rather successfully. Then they tried to copy it on Real Estate. At my point of view they did it without big expertise. It looked like nobody had counted cost and demad...

Dreams were good but eventually boring accounting is the King of the Hill...

Anyway I'm admired that the Ruller of Dubai has invested own and mostly borrowed money in the own country...

Red Chief wrote:

Speedhump wrote:
I probably largely disagree. Dubai 'was' a success story? It's going through a downturn, like the rest of the world

My feeling has been a little bit different for last 4 years. I thought that Dubai would be in trouble independ on the World crisis...

Dubai was very keen in attracting foreigners... So they have developed tourism and did it rather successfully. Then they tried to copy it on Real Estate. At my point of view they did it without big expertise. It looked like nobody had counted cost and demad...

Dreams were good but eventually boring accounting is the King of the Hill...

Anyway I'm admired that the Ruller of Dubai has invested own and mostly borrowed money in the own country...

But there is also good solid business underpining the froth of building and real estate. Examples: shipping and insurance industries have grown here greatly in four years or so. These are companies working in international spheres, not just on Dubai based business. Many companies have moved in, attracted by good business environments (especially in the Free Zones,of which more and more exist, these aren't there for Real Estate biz!), tax breaks, low labour costs (compare to the West), etc, etc. don't just look at the pretty buildings or you'll be like the Western media! Retrenchment this year is not a sign of a sinking ship, here just as much as in other more developed economies.

I feel for sure that this is not just a five minute wonder. The real growth will continue as soon as international trade starts up again. let's hope it's not accompanied by another headlong rush into property speculation though. You heard it here first!

Succes story or not. Succes is measured on a long run in my opinion. Just like a lifetime.

You can win 5 million dollars tomorrow and say your succesful, but if you lose it within 5 years, I really think your an unsuccesful dumb piece o' shiiiiie...easssyyy Rob. Keep it calm. Ok...

Now, everbody's opinion is welcome. And Mrs Greer's got a point. Some people just don't like this blown off reality cultural hiphop construction bonanza... I can imagine.
If even the locals are having trouble keeping their identity of 'old Dubai', then who are we to say Mrs Greer is wrong!? She's right actually. There is no real character and identity to Dubai.
A simple media slogan makes Dubai's identity that attracts people from all places of the world. Fortunately, some of us happen to respect the local emirati's and appreciate their cultural reminiscence!

And when state support runs out, tax laws are in place then prices are really gonna reflect the 'real' costs of Dubai. Just like Mrs. Greer said; desalinated water is very expensive. 97 percent dependance....wanna bet this comes back at the residents one day? I'll bet it does.

Just some reality.

ps: for the mongers around... I love Dubai

Hey, I'm not saying that Dubai isn't financially successful. It's just not *as* successful at the moment. Yes, partially because of the global economic frak up but also because of its own doing. You can't contest the fact that over-borrowing and blood-sucking real estate flippers (two of the biggest reasons for the current situation) were ever present in Dubai.

I'm a pessimist when it comes to Dubai's outlook and not because I want it to fail; I call this place home despite the fact that I will never be able to vote or retire here. I live here and have lived here for around two decades and my experience tells me that I should be prepared for disappointment and so I don't hope for much.

I see articles such as the one from the OP and, while I agree that they're not 100% accurate, I could imagine that the truth is not so far off.