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I don't think that some countries have this option because WASP understands only one language. It's a language of force, not weakness...

Red Chief wrote:I don't think that some countries have this option because WASP understands only one language. It's a language of force, not weakness...

Its actually more the language of money...



Knight

Dubai Knight wrote:Its actually more the language of money...
Knight

Not really, because they can print the money as many as necessary any time... Oh, It's the time now...

Kyrgyzstan governments is acting like a fox, they are given the US until the end of the month to up the ante or their airbase will face the closure

It is the language of money combined with one country’s resources and abilities, as well as its prestige and relationship with the outside world. Money alone won’t do it, look at Zambia for instance, they’ve saturated their market with their own money, but it didn’t help them a bit.

Think about it about it carefully, the last 8 years of Gorge Bush’s policy has been nothing but a drag to the US, and it has been costing the US its international credibility, and as a result, countries and people around the world started to dislikes the US and anything that’s USA.

Consequently, USA cars and others goods became unpopular, the sequences of that took few years before it surface and bite the US’s economy real bad. The economy crisis that the world is facing right now has started in the US at first, and it’s because of the of Cowboy’s (Gorge) outburst and insane actions.

So what ignites the world economy crisis?

1: American people are big spenders and consumers of the international goods especially the Chinese goods, but as the USA companies have had difficult time selling their products overseas as they used to, they have less money and less money means less employees. This has resulted on large number of employees to be dismissed, and thereafter, home owners defaulted on their mortgage payments. Thus, the fears have spread amongst USA banks mortgage frims, companies, and of course home owners.

2: The US banks and big companies are interdependent and intertwine with other banks and companies around the world, and especially in Europe. So the collapsed of the US’s major companies and banks have had tremendous affect on large number of international banks and companies’ shares and productivities - this has led to the status quo.

At some point, the oil trade countries were very close to switching to the Euro, but the US used it’s usual charm over the Gulf countries to keep the dollar as the main currency of the oil trade– because of the fact that what’s have been keeping the dollar value strong and number one sought after currency internationally is the oil, and the US will do whatever it takes to keep it that way.

Now countries around the world have learnt their lesson especially the European countries, they will certainly try to disentangle their economies’ fate from the US’s economy.

Well said Humbleman brother. I agree with most of your points except the timid and meek 'submission' in front of nonmuslim westerners but may be that's because you are in the minority in a country occupied by terrorist anglo-westerners through force, deception, mass murder and exploitation.

Coming back to Iran, I hope and pray it acts as a spur, that stimulates other Muslim countries into becoming more technologically, scientifically, morally and spiritually advanced and enlightened.

muslimbangladeshi wrote:Well said Humbleman brother. I agree with most of your points except the timid and meek 'submission' in front of nonmuslim westerners but may be that's because you are in the minority in a country occupied by terrorist anglo-westerners through force, deception, mass murder and exploitation.

Coming back to Iran, I hope and pray it acts as a spur, that stimulates other Muslim countries into becoming more technologically, scientifically, morally and spiritually advanced and enlightened.

Then they will need "western" expats, not you! Stay in your slums

muslimbangladeshi wrote:Well said Humbleman brother. I agree with most of your points except the timid and meek 'submission' in front of nonmuslim westerners but may be that's because you are in the minority in a country occupied by terrorist anglo-westerners through force, deception, mass murder and exploitation.

Coming back to Iran, I hope and pray it acts as a spur, that stimulates other Muslim countries into becoming more technologically, scientifically, morally and spiritually advanced and enlightened.

MuslimBangladeshi, you are as hypocrite as Gorge Bush is. Here is why:

Bush said he takes his philosophy from Jesus. But we know that, Jesus has told his followers to love their enemies as they’d love themselves, don’t kill, spread peace and love, be patient, be honest, help others who are hungry and in real need etc. But what Bush has done is absolutely the opposite.

You on the other hand, have been attacking and insulting pretty much every one who disagrees with your point of view. And yet claim that you are a Muslim, my friend I know Islam very well, and I know a real Muslim isn’t allowed to attack and insult others regardless on how different they are. Islam emphasises on tolerance, respect, love, peace, look after the poor /elderly, harmony etc.

My wife and I had to stop over in Bangladesh for few days about 8 years ago. We couldn’t believe how terrible and miserable the Bangladeshis people were living, we’ve never seen a low standard of living. It really broke our hearts to see those lovely Bangladeshis people struggling so hard just to stay alive and makes end meat – until this day we still have vivid memories of what we saw, and to be honest we have zero respect for the Bangladesh’s authorities and government.

During our short stay in the capital Dhaka, my curiosity took me out to try to understand what was going on, it wasn’t too long until I understood that corruptions, bad government and exploitation by Bangladeshis’ authority were rife, and the Bangladeshis people were left to fend for themselves. This terrible desperation and poor live-standards forced some people to sell drugs, and even do prostitution – I saw it with my naked eyes.

So, if you are that smart and hate everything is bad, then why don’t you run a campaign against corruption or at least try to do something noble that could help your fellow Bangladeshis to a better lives, and stop worrying about what is going on in Dubai – because so we speak Dubai is the envious of very international cities.

Bangladeshis people do very well when they’ve given the opportunity. I know some nice Bangladeshis people who live in Australia owned variety of businesses and have been positive members of Australian’s societies.

Akhi, you should take a look at your approach and temper, and try expressing your opinion in a pragmatic and rational manner. And just remember, every human being on this earth, sees his/her culture and belief just as good as yours - so it’s not fair to attack someone’s belief or culture

Wish you all the best

TheChoosen wrote:

muslimbangladeshi wrote:Well said Humbleman brother. I agree with most of your points except the timid and meek 'submission' in front of nonmuslim westerners but may be that's because you are in the minority in a country occupied by terrorist anglo-westerners through force, deception, mass murder and exploitation.

Coming back to Iran, I hope and pray it acts as a spur, that stimulates other Muslim countries into becoming more technologically, scientifically, morally and spiritually advanced and enlightened.

Then they will need "western" expats, not you! Stay in your slums

Western 'expats' (terrorists) went to pretty much all over the world only to loot and steal all the resources from there.

Humbleman wrote:MuslimBangladeshi, you are as hypocrite as Gorge Bush is. Here is why:

Bush said he takes his philosophy from Jesus. But we know that, Jesus has told his followers to love their enemies as they’d love themselves, don’t kill, spread peace and love, be patient, be honest, help others who are hungry and in real need etc. But what Bush has done is absolutely the opposite.

I don't care about Bush. He was elected by USA's citizens twice, it's the public that's to blame. We can't lay blame on one person because it's convenient.

You on the other hand, have been attacking and insulting pretty much every one who disagrees with your point of view. And yet claim that you are a Muslim, my friend I know Islam very well, and I know a real Muslim isn’t allowed to attack and insult others regardless on how different they are. Islam emphasises on tolerance, respect, love, peace, look after the poor /elderly, harmony etc.

Did I insult you, bushra, uaekid, mesheditor and so on? Kindly tell me where I did so.

My wife and I had to stop over in Bangladesh for few days about 8 years ago. We couldn’t believe how terrible and miserable the Bangladeshis people were living, we’ve never seen a low standard of living. It really broke our hearts to see those lovely Bangladeshis people struggling so hard just to stay alive and makes end meat – until this day we still have vivid memories of what we saw, and to be honest we have zero respect for the Bangladesh’s authorities and government.

8 years is quite a long time ago, specially if you look at fast growing places. In fact there's no better place than Dubai. Sheikh Zayed Road itself was far different 8 years ago from today's SZR.

That doesn't mean Bangladesh's poverty has ended. It's that reason why I said maybe more Muslim countries can take inspiration from Islamic Republic of Iran, learn from UAE's government in improving economy, invite more investments from our brotherly countries, generate more jobs and revenues for the economy of both Bangladesh and the brotherly countries in question thus benefitting both the countries in question. You know when people trade willingly it normally benefits both parties so it's a win-win situation for both parties involved.

During our short stay in the capital Dhaka, my curiosity took me out to try to understand what was going on, it wasn’t too long until I understood that corruptions, bad government and exploitation by Bangladeshis’ authority were rife, and the Bangladeshis people were left to fend for themselves. This terrible desperation and poor live-standards forced some people to sell drugs, and even do prostitution – I saw it with my naked eyes.

Bangladesh has 15% or so nonmuslims and many namesake Muslims therefore your observation makes sense. Now you yourself suggest we should 'respect/tolerate' them and their views however immoral decadent and ing they may be. What should be done with that particular minority then?

So, if you are that smart and hate everything is bad, then why don’t you run a campaign against corruption or at least try to do something noble that could help your fellow Bangladeshis to a better lives, and stop worrying about what is going on in Dubai – because so we speak Dubai is the envious of very international cities.

If you are that smart brother why don't you see my posts and learn what I have been calling out for. More cooperation with our brotherly countries helps both parties and it also minimizes religious friction as so often happens with nonmuslim westerners or even indians. I also suggested that UAE government along with other muslim governments should strengthen cooperation, establish one political, military and economic bloc.

Do you think that can ease the situation you are describing brother? Moreover does it also not help the nonBangladesh muslims whose situation are also very dire in certain countries? By asking me to constrain my views to a select group of individuals - only Bangladeshis- you in fact show your narrow-mindedness. Perhaps you made that comment in haste but you'd be better placed if you thought it through brother.

Bangladeshis people do very well when they’ve given the opportunity. I know some nice Bangladeshis people who live in Australia owned variety of businesses and have been positive members of Australian’s societies.

I know it brother. All people do well when given the opportunity if they follow basic tenets of Islam specially.

Akhi, you should take a look at your approach and temper, and try expressing your opinion in a pragmatic and rational manner. And just remember, every human being on this earth, sees his/her culture and belief just as good as yours - so it’s not fair to attack someone’s belief or culture

Akhi, you should tell that to all the nonmuslims in your country of residence who don't even allow you the call for Adhan. Even you were so moved by their logic you compared Adhan to a dog's barking although upon realizing your mistake you retracted it.

That's just one of milllions of cases of hypocrisy and intolerance in the West.

Remember the West has killed MILLIONS of muslims in iraq, palestine, afghanistan, sudan, libya, pakistan, syria and so on. IF the Muslim world was united, do you think it would have been possible?

I am surprised you are so silent on this issue whenever I bring it up and yet you want us to be considerate to those morons that even threaten to use nuclear bombs on Makkah and the Kaabah?

Wish you all the best

Wish you all the best akhi.

Ma'assalama.

muslimbangladeshi wrote:

TheChoosen wrote:

muslimbangladeshi wrote:Well said Humbleman brother. I agree with most of your points except the timid and meek 'submission' in front of nonmuslim westerners but may be that's because you are in the minority in a country occupied by terrorist anglo-westerners through force, deception, mass murder and exploitation.

Coming back to Iran, I hope and pray it acts as a spur, that stimulates other Muslim countries into becoming more technologically, scientifically, morally and spiritually advanced and enlightened.

Then they will need "western" expats, not you! Stay in your slums

Western 'expats' (terrorists) went to pretty much all over the world only to loot and steal all the resources from there.

ah, you mean only to leave working and fair systems of law and order, transport systems, education systems, sanitation systems.......India was able to take advantage of Britain's gifts, maybe as we had taught them for 300 years. Other shorter-lived ex-colonies went back to the mud. India, having grown on its own now for 50 years or so, is now thriving and therefore suffering the enraged jealousy of its muslim neighbours.

Arabia and Persia have been in the dark ages for more than a thousand years, and will remain there so long as a brutal and mysogenistic religious/social laws are in place, stifling free thought, creativity and action. Anywhere where men are regularly pardonned or given 3 months in prison for killing their sister, or other female relative is doomed to everlasting fire. Don't tell me I don't understand it. I understand brutality and ignorance when I see it.

It is up to young Western-looking Persians to throw over their oppression and allow light back into this once lovely land. I believe it is coming, slowly. It may spill into other lands, but you, my ignorant friend, will not be eligible.

Speedhump wrote:

muslimbangladeshi wrote:

TheChoosen wrote:

muslimbangladeshi wrote:Well said Humbleman brother. I agree with most of your points except the timid and meek 'submission' in front of nonmuslim westerners but may be that's because you are in the minority in a country occupied by terrorist anglo-westerners through force, deception, mass murder and exploitation.

Coming back to Iran, I hope and pray it acts as a spur, that stimulates other Muslim countries into becoming more technologically, scientifically, morally and spiritually advanced and enlightened.

Then they will need "western" expats, not you! Stay in your slums

Western 'expats' (terrorists) went to pretty much all over the world only to loot and steal all the resources from there.

ah, you mean only to leave working and fair systems of law and order, transport systems, education systems, sanitation systems.......India was able to take advantage of Britain's gifts, maybe as we had taught them for 300 years. Other shorter-lived ex-colonies went back to the mud. India, having grown on its own now for 50 years or so, is now thriving and therefore suffering the enraged jealousy of its muslim neighbours.

Ignorant post chock-full of errors. None of your statements carry any iota of truth. India is thriving with the highest number of poor people in the world, the highest number of illiterates, the highest number of children suffering from malnutrition, the highest number without sanitation.

If that's how India is thriving I take 'backwater' countries like Iran and Japan which were never quite British colonies.

Arabia and Persia have been in the dark ages for more than a thousand years, and will remain there so long as a brutal and mysogenistic religious/social laws are in place, stifling free thought, creativity and action. Anywhere where men are regularly pardonned or given 3 months in prison for killing their sister, or other female relative is doomed to everlasting fire. Don't tell me I don't understand it. I understand brutality and ignorance when I see it.

Another ignorant comment by a British whose economy is in a downward slide. If Arabia and Persia are in dark ages, what are you doing in Dubai? What are Persians doing capturing your sailors whom you can't rescue? What are Persians doing sending satellites to space and having a living standard 4 times higher than average Indians if they are stuck in dark ages?

It is up to young Western-looking Persians to throw over their oppression and allow light back into this once lovely land. I believe it is coming, slowly. It may spill into other lands, but you, my ignorant friend, will not be eligible.

Western-looking Reza Shah ruled Persia to only stifle indigenous industry, economy, sciences and culture. Today's Iran is manifold more advanced and independent thanks to their Islamic government.

Compare that with a country like UK which is facing recession with millions of unemployed citizens enjoying the last vestiges of stolen resources from countries around the world before it goes out with a whimper.

You love to remain blind to economic truths. India is the economic powerhouse or the region. What they do with their money is a different affair. I did NOT say they were attacking their poverty, that is their affair. The country is wealthy. Fact.

I am in Dubai because for the last 30 years Brits and others have been taking the gold of the Middle East to try to bring it into the 20th (now 21st century). You know very well that the expertise required is beyond anyone born and educated here. Also I challenge you to name the last acknowledged scientific theory or invention that came from the Middle East.

A satelite, how wonderful, I hope the rubber band lasts for more than one orbit. Iran is light years behind other countries which build satellites. I forsee it being a disaster.

I won't comment on your truly ignorant comments re advancement of science and society under Islamic Governments, You are plainly beyond help. All you can do is bleat about the west and how it is crumbling. Too soon, there is only one system, that is democracy and the freedom that goes with it. A few Petrodollars are not going to see The Gulf outlive that, they must learn to live with it.

speedhump , I love hearing you losers say that, it really make me feel we are doing things the right way every time you guys attack us... keep it going... and the petrodollars are the reason you and your countries are surviving, in case you don't know, you are borrowing money from us now a days , we bought eve thing your countries worth.. so even when you 'll work back home, it is still the Petrodollars that's will pay for your survival. Live with it like your country does and get off your high heels like your gov did when hey came here asking for loans.

uaekid wrote:speedhump , I love hearing you losers say that, it really make me feel we are doing things the right way every time you guys attack us... keep it going... and the petrodollars are the reason you and your countries are surviving, in case you don't know, you are borrowing money from us now a days , we bought eve thing your countries worth.. so even when you 'll work back home, it is still the Petrodollars that's will pay for your survival. Live with it like your country does and get off your high heels like your gov did when hey came here asking for loans.

I won't waste many words on this, as it's you personally I object to, not your country or even most of your countrymen. I am not racist like you.

UAE is one of the more progressive ME countries, it looks firmly to the West (I bet you hate that....) and to be honest it dilutes it's Muslim ideals to a large extent, as it needs to. AD has its oil (for now, never forget), and two enlightened Sheikhs have made Dubai Emirate wealthy by attracting foreign talent and money (yes, you will again need it after these troubles are over). Hardline Islam leads only to poverty, both in money and thought. Better is the toned down version peddled in the GCC countries, although better is still not ideal.

The world would in fact be better off without organised religion of any sort; less wars, less deaths, less persecution. We have outgrown it.

That's my last word as it says it all.

Sppedhupm.

Why when a country tries to advance itself by imitating, outdo and improve an existing ideas or systems is seen as “firmly to Westerner”.

If that’s the case then all nations in the world who are using farms, live- stock, steel are also firmly Middle Eastern. Why, because at the beginning of human civilisation the people in the Middle East were the first one:

1: who understood and came up with the idea of farming and how to use certain crops to maintain their survival, when their fellow species were chasing wild animal just to survive. These human-saving ideas were exported and imitated by people in West, Asian, and Africa etc. I bet you didn’t know that because these facts weren’t in your texts book history at school.

2: People in the Middle East were the first one to use and domesticate the five important animals in human's survival to date, they are: cow, sheep, bull (to plough the ground to maximize the crops’ richness ), camel, and horse to improve their way of living and help them do other things that otherwise wouldn’t be possible. Did you know that there were no cow in the US or the West at all, because their existence were confined to the Middle East region, but they later shipped to the US and countries around the world. Without these animals, humans’ development wouldn’t be possible, because they are our major source of Iron and other important vitamins that give us the energy to do such task.

3: People in the Middle East were the first one to use fire to melt stone to blaster and build houses, without this idea we probably wouldn’t have skyscrapers. Not to mention, oil, without it we would have been living a premitive existance.

And we could go on and on about medicine, science, math etc.

The Middle East people have somewhere a long the way lost their ancestor’s hunger and quest for innovation and advancement. I have to agree with you on the idea that religion in the Middle East has became a hindrance rather than an inspirational. This is the problem in the Middle East. If the Middle East countries want to advance themselves, then they ought to look at religion as an identity and try to focus on what will benefit their generation and future generation first, and the world second.

The benefit that people in the West have been enjoying is, religions take a second place in societies and governments, and this has benefited people to search for an answer outside the box, and the mainstream knowledge. I am very sad thought to see this great approach to life has been shifting and changing in some Western countries. Just to give you few examples of the top of my head, women’s’ right to abortion is linked to religion now, some life-saving researches are not allowed because of religious views, people think you ought be a moral person if you regularly attend a Church etc, but if you were an atheist then you shouldn’t be trusted and your morality will be questioned.

bcz Speedhupm is like most of the westerns ,a Parrot, they only repeat what they hear but no intelligent what so ever to add anything on their own humbleman, that why he ended his post with "That's my last word as it says it all"

not in my defence but I don't hate westrens speedhupm, not a bit, I only hate the human been who can not be true to them selves and always look at others form high above and it just happen that they are the westrens in this forum.

face it bro, your days are over, nothing in this world stays the same.

Humbleman wrote:Sppedhupm.

Why when a country tries to advance itself by imitating, outdo and improve an existing ideas or systems is seen as “firmly to Westerner”.

If that’s the case then all nations in the world who are using farms, live- stock, steel are also firmly Middle Eastern. Why, because at the beginning of human civilisation the people in the Middle East were the first one:

1: who understood and came up with the idea of farming and how to use certain crops to maintain their survival, when their fellow species were chasing wild animal just to survive. These human-saving ideas were exported and imitated by people in West, Asian, and Africa etc. I bet you didn’t know that because these facts weren’t in your texts book history at school.

2: People in the Middle East were the first one to use and domesticate the five important animals in human's survival to date, they are: cow, sheep, bull (to plough the ground to maximize the crops’ richness ), camel, and horse to improve their way of living and help them do other things that otherwise wouldn’t be possible. Did you know that there were no cow in the US or the West at all, because their existence were confined to the Middle East region, but they later shipped to the US and countries around the world. Without these animals, humans’ development wouldn’t be possible, because they are our major source of Iron and other important vitamins that give us the energy to do such task.

3: People in the Middle East were the first one to use fire to melt stone to blaster and build houses, without this idea we probably wouldn’t have skyscrapers. Not to mention, oil, without it we would have been living a premitive existance.

And we could go on and on about medicine, science, math etc.

The Middle East people have somewhere a long the way lost their ancestor’s hunger and quest for innovation and advancement. I have to agree with you on the idea that religion in the Middle East has became a hindrance rather than an inspirational. This is the problem in the Middle East. If the Middle East countries want to advance themselves, then they ought to look at religion as an identity and try to focus on what will benefit their generation and future generation first, and the world second.

The benefit that people in the West have been enjoying is, religions take a second place in societies and governments, and this has benefited people to search for an answer outside the box, and the mainstream knowledge. I am very sad thought to see this great approach to life has been shifting and changing in some Western countries. Just to give you few examples of the top of my head, women’s’ right to abortion is linked to religion now, some life-saving researches are not allowed because of religious views, people think you ought be a moral person if you regularly attend a Church etc, but if you were an atheist then you shouldn’t be trusted and your morality will be questioned.

I was finished with the stupidity of the the other contributors to this thread, but your post is at least factual, I thank you for that.

I was of course aware of the development of agriculture, UK history books are generally fair and balanced. Irrigation was in use in China before the Levant. Also it was a Greek who developed the screw principle of raising water and allowing agriculture to spread quickly beyond its heavily labour intensive beginnings. Archimedes has been described at the greast mathematician who even lived, of course that is subjective.

Iron and protein is freely available in a vegetarian diet, meat IS a luxury which is only now becoming more economically available to the general population of some large countries and in fact this is placing a huge strain on the world's agriculture as growing animal feed is more land intensive than growing crops for consumption. I'm surprised you are such a champion of meat eating. That's probably not so relevant to our main discussion though.

The East is westward looking, I am sorry, just as the West learned from the East viable numbers systems, algebra, the wheel, etc, etc. But this was so long ago and the tables turned. The UAE has based its economy on the Western economic model, and is still using Western methods to try to control it. All the (physical) comforts of your modern life have come from the process of industrialisation that took place in the West in the very very recent past, not thousands of years ago.

Copying Western economic and manufacturing processes is not westward looking? The process is still taking place, you should not view it as 'oh we looked and we copied but now it's ours'.

The pity is that you are not able to copy the social model (from which these benefits grow) . As you said, religion is one hindrance. Freedom of thought grew in the West from freedom of religion, without going into a LONG history lesson England's break from the Catholic church in the C15th. and the change to printing bibles in English (via another invention without which the modern world could never have existed, the printing press, a Wesern invention) gave English people the means to question their clergy and form their own ideas on not only religion, but the way their existence fits into society. the English have always been dissenters, not sheep, and together with the Lutheran idealists of Germany and the Low Countries (very similarin thinking), they helped to forge the modern world in a few hundred years.

We agree that the way forward for the ME is to draw the teeth of religion. the question is how to make the powerful give up their power, especially when it is so deeply engrained in the legal system? Also how could you possibly cope with the truly awful sectarian violence that springs up whenever a govrenmental system is deposed in this region? If they can't unite against the US, how are they going to be able to govern themselves, unless it is going to be a despotic rule? I am sorry to say it but I don't see this region ever being able to unite. I also believe that the idea of 'an Arab nation' is pie in the sky for the same reason.

I understand your point about religious power growing in the West, I'm not so sure that the problem is as strong as you suggest. The US does have a large religious community but I see the country as a whole as a slave to progress. If there were a religious backlash there it could have world shattering consequences, but these things have been talked about for decades, so we should hope that it's a non-starter.

uaekid wrote:bcz Speedhupm is like most of the westerns ,a Parrot, they only repeat what they hear but no intelligent what so ever to add anything on their own humbleman, that why he ended his post with "That's my last word as it says it all"

not in my defence but I don't hate westrens speedhupm, not a bit, I only hate the human been who can not be true to them selves and always look at others form high above and it just happen that they are the westrens in this forum.

face it bro, your days are over, nothing in this world stays the same.

A PARRROT lol hahahahah heheheh

Speedhump wrote:You love to remain blind to economic truths. India is the economic powerhouse or the region. What they do with their money is a different affair. I did NOT say they were attacking their poverty, that is their affair. The country is wealthy. Fact.

With the largest population of poor (no offense - just facts), of hungry, of malnourished, of those without sanitation education, electricity, sewage or even government services, yes, India is indeed wealthy since Western media likes to think so.

Exactly which region is India a powerhouse of? With 1/6 of the world's population, even if it were just an average country in all indicators (hypothetically speaking), it should have 1/6 of world's resources, outputs and so on. India is FAAAAR from that.

This is not to malign India, but to shed some misconceptions propagated by anglo westtern media

I am in Dubai because for the last 30 years Brits and others have been taking the gold of the Middle East to try to bring it into the 20th (now 21st century). You know very well that the expertise required is beyond anyone born and educated here. Also I challenge you to name the last acknowledged scientific theory or invention that came from the Middle East.

You talk as if there is just one calendar in use. Morons from the West abound in Dubai, and other nouveau riche countries - no doubt about that.

If you Westerners were so capable of advancements, why didn't you stay back and advance the UK itself? Let's face facts: most westerners in Dubai , Arab countries or taiwan, korea, singapore and similar countries are the third grade rejects within their own socieities in their own chosen fields.

A satelite, how wonderful, I hope the rubber band lasts for more than one orbit. Iran is light years behind other countries which build satellites. I forsee it being a disaster.

Did the British also foresee british sailors being captured while britain looked helplessly on? Did the UK also foresee that the whole Western world was going to face a financial crunch?

I won't comment on your truly ignorant comments re advancement of science and society under Islamic Governments, You are plainly beyond help.

Exactly the description you fit.

If you know nothing about Iran it's best to keep quiet.

All you can do is bleat about the west and how it is crumbling. Too soon, there is only one system, that is democracy and the freedom that goes with it. A few Petrodollars are not going to see The Gulf outlive that, they must learn to live with it.

Propaganda without any meaning behind it nor any substance shouldn't move sane persons.

Freedom in itself is an absolutely ing and idiotic and barbaric concept. And thankfully nobody in civilized world bleats about that, whole world barring a few nimrod declining decadent drunkard deceptive westerners see how just, fair and honest systems are the way to go.

It's funny that you don't actually reply to the specific points I made you just rant and rave about British sailors, and the UK not having a financial crystal ball. There is nothing to reply to in your post. You also believe you have a calendar which apparently shows that Mesopotamia still exists and invented the wheel just last week hahaha.

Oh I did find one thing to reply to, why are 'third rate' foreigners here being paid (by nationals) more than nationals? As I said, you are too blind to make it fun arguing with you. There is NOTHING of substance in your words.

SB,
As soon as this treat started about some Iran's achivement your British arrogance is a little bit misplaced...

UK defenetely did more bad than good for Iran's people pumping their oil for nothing during the first half of XX century and then after some threat for BP from an elected prime-minister Mr. Mohammed Mosaddeq you (probably together with CIA) arranged Iranian coup in 1953 and enthroned Shah Reza.

The Islamic revolution was only answer for the unfair game UK/US had played for previous 80 years...

Red Chief you want to side with a completely irrational buffoon's post just because it gives you another chance to attack me?

Your own country is very well aware of and plays the 'game' itself and has done so against Britain and other European powers in the central Asian region since the 19th Century. There is nothing fair in international politics, ask at the Kremlin. Russia miserably failed to take control of Mesopotamia, Persia, and of course what was thought the great prize, India from Britain, otherwise we would be reversing positions in this discussion. When did Russia not bleed it's 'satellite' countries (lovely term for annexed and dominated formerly free states) dry of resources? Oh and weren't you in Afghanistan a short while ago (for a short while before your a*ses were so heavily kicked). What was that about then?

Your heart is bleeding for Iran? Do me a favour.

I started to defend the UK because the moronic muslim decided to turn this thread, which was about satellites, into another irrational attack on the West. Fair game. I think you should let this thread die. Or we will talk about the 'Great Game' which was played between Russia and Britain in the C19th, using the whole of the Middle East as a board, with both sides making and breaking treaties with (equally morally bankrupt) local warlords, pashas and emirs with impunity.

Stop it with the high and mighty already it doesn't suit you. My posts have been only in defense. What's your excuse?

Dear SB,
There is the only difference between you and me. I've never said that Russians solely saved the World and did everything absolutelly right, especially about invasion to Afganistan in 1979.

Could you tell me the same about Brits there and in Iraq now?

In common I don't hate UK and count BBC as one of the most objective media but not perfect of cause...

Red Chief wrote:Dear SB,
There is the only difference between you and me. I've never said that Russians solely saved the World and did everything absolutelly right, especially about invasion to Afganistan in 1979.

Could you tell me the same about Brits there and in Iraq now?

In common I don't hate UK and count BBC as one of the most objective media but not perfect of cause...

Well said Red Chief. Respect.
Speedhump, some Western countries didn’t and don’t share the US’s policy nor the remaining of its Puppet Toy Blair’s policy. So don’t speak on behalf of all Western countries please.

Democracy is an elusive term that’s hard to pin down to one definition, because democracy has different meaning to different nations. In England for example, people do vote to elect representatives to represent them in the Parliament and elect a Prime Minister. However, the Queen Elizabeth is the ultimate power who decides on such a matter and gives the final say on such a decision, yet the British people are happy with this form of democracy, and rightly so. However, US citizens would see this form of democracy as half democracy due to the fact that the Queen is the one who has the upper hands on where the country should be heading.

From my observation, I see some Arabic countries are on the right track on implementing home-flavoured democracies. For example, in Kuwait, people elect representatives to represent them in the Parliament, and have the right to Question even the Emir’s agenda and works – this was unheard of and impossible to do just few years ago. This indeed is a positive sign to great things to come.

Middle Eastern people have great access than ever before to information and to what’s going on the other part of the world, this exposure to information have made the young generation to ask questions about their governments and their systems’ effectiveness and viability. This has resulted on great change throughout the Middle East, even the Saudi monarchy who used to give it damn about their peoples’ development, has now started to move their lazy bums to adjust to the unprecedented change, and to accommodate to the peoples’ yearning for positive change. So yes, I believe some of the Middle East countries are developing on a fast pace toward better future.

Not to mention, the great advantages to those developing countries is that, they could look at the developed countries and see what systems that are working well, then try to internalize them and improve them in a way that suit and fit with their own needs and cultures. Humans imitate one another because they are wired to be that way, and because of this unique trait humans have always managed to be far ahead of other species.

The major problem though in the Middle East, is the conflict between Palestine and Israel. This terrible conflict has been detrimental to the development of the region and the relationship between and within Middle Eastern countries and the US in particular. It has bred hatred, fierce anger toward the US and some other Western countries, and sadly bred and spread fanaticism and extremisms not only in the Middle East but also in most of the world. People in some Western countries have grew up with prejudice toward Islam due to the monopoly of the Zionists on Hollywood’s’ films production, and news outlets.

To have a clear idea about what am talking about, just check out a film called “Real Bad Arabs, how Hollywood vilifies the Arab”. I’m sure it’d be hard to find in the mainstream media because it’s tells the truth. It's a great documentary about Hollywood's long history of racist stereotyping of Arabs, Muslims and I must add the Russian, starting from the 20's silent movie age till present day.

Here are few trailers of it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNr-dG1Y ... arabs.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5Bz8ljc ... arabs.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r85W5VGf ... arabs.html

Speedhump, this is very good question

“Why are 'third rate' foreigners here being paid (by nationals) more than nationals?”

The reason is because of the gullibility and stupidity of some companies in the Gulf. They think that certain people from certain countries would perform miracles. The fact is that, the world is full of talents, India, Russia, Japan, China, Korea, North America, Iran, Egypt, Gulf, Italy etc etc people are just as capable if not even better as anyone from those developed countries.

To your knowledge, British companies have always been on the search for outside skills workers because they are hard to find in Briton. Last week a major company hired skill workers from Italy, India and Spain and other countries to take a charge of the completion of the World cup venues has sparked a large demonstrations by British workers. They want the government to force British companies to pay them high salary and stop hiring people from outside.

The company said, these workers are capable then the British workers to do the job and affordable. So I think those Gulf companies should do the same as the British companies. Search for the talents and pay according to them rather than the country of origin.

Have look at this Chinese farmer who has very little education but yet has built 26 robots over the past 30 years. But what impressive is that he assembled all his robots using wastage materials.

Humbleman, you are right and wrong in part.


Foreign construction workers are being employed because they are cheap, not more skillful, and often illegal (so cheaper still), and they are coming because the UK is still an incredibly attractive proposition to them (and to the hundreds of thousands of other jobless immigrants that come every year).

I'll quote from http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ralia.html

=QUOTE
Until last year Romanians made up the largest foreign worker group, representing seven per cent of the workforce on the Olympic site.

India is the second largest overseas contributor, with 90 workers on the site, whilst Poland, Lithuania and Nepal each currently contribute two per cent – or around 70 employees – of the workforce.

But it emerged yesterday that a number of Romanian construction workers had been 'quietly sacked' in the past two months during a clampdown on illegal foreign labour.
UNQUOTE=

You will note that pay in Romania, India, Poland etc is much lower than in UK. the UK is not advertising in Poland, etc. for labour.

Also:

=QUOTE
Shadow Immigration Minister, Damian Green said: 'It seems extraordinary that when British construction workers can't find jobs we are making efforts to bring foreign workers from halfway around the world.

'This is another sign that Gordon Brown's British jobs for British workers was a meaningless sound-bite.' Yesterday the ODA said that many of their foreign workers may have lived in the local area for a number of years although they do not hold a British passport.
UNQUOTE=

Illegal immigrants, cheap labour. Shades of Dubai....

I suggest you show me the quote saying that foreign labour is actually MORE capable than British labour of doing the job. I'd really like to see that, Humbleman?

In the UAE, we should say 'caucasians' are more sought after, broadly meaning white skinned people. Indian, Pakistani, etc. applicants may have better qualifications and even work harder and cheaper, but they don't get the job. Maybe they show too much deference, maybe even show subservience to their potential employer. This is a characteristic which Westeners don't possess in abundance, they may (should) show politeness but not deference. A European may show more confidence, make a better presentation because of it, convince an employer that they are aggressive and can get the job done, can think outside the box. I'm afraid this attitude is what is called by some 'western arrogance'. Please accept that at least some of the above is true.

I am prepared to admit some influence also of possible prejudice on the part of employers but that can't explain the extremely high rate of occurrence. I also think that influential Arabs do still have a love affair with the west. They buy huge numbers of luxury Rolls Royce cars, and send their children to English boarding schools. They go to the UK just to shop (although Harrods' toy store and others have now come to them...).

We're not disagreeing that there are skilled people the world over, but interestingly, it seems that skill is not everything.

By the way, the Chinese story was fun, but I consider to be called a robot a device needs to show some capability make actions by itself. He is operating that device constantly with a remote, controlling its every action, just like a toy aeroplane, which is not really a robot. But if he makes money out of it then I take my hat off to him!

I don't have any clue (I don't know them) but It looks like Brits make big contribution in Dubai's rapid development, otherwise I can't exlain to myself this great leap forward from rags to rich that wasn't so rapid in the other very similar states...

I don't think it's only due to personal skill of Brits but their system of management, control, corporative culture etc... that has been worked very effectevely so far. IMO That's why on the initial stage it was more effective to trasfer everything: lock, stock and barrel...
A localization of some parts of the car is rather long process and not very effective sometimes...

Speedhump, brother.

I accept some of what you said about the Gulf to be the case.

However, the world cup event is extremely important to the British government and of course to the British people, therefore I wouldn’t think for a second that they’d hire second class labourers to the job.

I am not saying that the British workers are less capable, absolutely not, they are just as good, hard-working and innovative as any world class labourers. In fact I’ve been working with some of them over the years, and I must admit, I find most of them to have hilarious sense of humor, which I don’t know why the American find it hard to understand sometimes hehehehe.

I just believe that workers should be judged and pay according to their merit and potential regardless of their race, colour, gender, religion etc. We all cousins, we all share a same DNA, thanks to the great scientists who have been working tirelessly to bring out the truth about us and the universe. So the era of ignorant and discrimination shouldn’t exist in the 21st, we supposed to be more enlighten and progressive than our previous generations.

I am optimistic about the future of the world, because I’ve traveled to some countries and what I found is something amazing. I found that the people from generation Y are more open-minded and more comfortable to mingle and accept others regardless of their background. Unlike generation X or Baby Boomer, in which I found them to be bit more reserve and somehow still attach to the past, and the past before Baby Boomer were full of resentments, wars, racism and all of that. I’m not saying that generation X or Baby Boomer are racist in any form, but the probability that past events would/can influence/cloud someone’s judgment and views is more likely than unlikely – humans tend to influence by their surrounding.

In regard to the Chinese guy:
He designed real robots, even carriages that can carry people and goods to a reasonable distance. His wife had it with him and was about to leaves him hehehe, because all what has been doing is setting in his garage collecting the neighbors’ unwanted materials, but now she loves him because he has became famous and sought after by major companies and TV outlets. SO yes, I bet he makes good money.

Goodday

Red Chief wrote:I don't have any clue (I don't know them) but It looks like Brits make big contribution in Dubai's rapid development, otherwise I can't exlain to myself this great leap forward from rags to rich that wasn't so rapid in the other very similar states...

I don't think it's only due to personal skill of Brits but their system of management, control, corporative culture etc... that has been worked very effectevely so far. IMO That's why on the initial stage it was more effective to trasfer everything: lock, stock and barrel...
A localization of some parts of the car is rather long process and not very effective sometimes...

Red Chief, noting your choice of words, did you read the book 'From Rags to Riches: A Story of Abu Dhabi'?. If you are interested in the way the UAE grew so quickly it is fascinating, and also written by a UAE national. It gives sometimes unflattering portraits of the way the UK treated with the UAE, but it does give hints at the closeness of the relationship. I know an old English guy still living here who in the 1960's was employed to lay the phone cables between the royal palaces, the first phone lines, and before even hardtop roads (the cars used to drive on sand everywhere, even only 40 or so years ago).

Also, from http://www.uae.gov.ae/Government/country.htm:
QUOTE
Yet only fifty years ago, when oil-exploration started, there was no electricity, no plumbing or telephone system, not a single public hospital nor modern school, no bridges, no deep-water harbor, no metalloid roads,

no more than a handful of cars and scarcely a building more impressive than the crumbling mud-brick forts and watchtowers of Abu Dhabi and Dubai, where now high-rise stacks, gilded domes and minarets tower over wide boulevards, where cascades of water are flaunted with conspicuous opulence, and where acres of shrubs burgeon on the desert shore, stood sleepy settlements of reed, coral and mud-brick houses, sweltering on sand spits and islands in the most ferocious summer heat.
UNQUOTE

The story of the UAE is a fascinating one.

I think it is to Britain's shame that we paid no real attention to the UAE and did not try to improve it as we did so many other colonies. It was only of passing strategic maritime importance and so Britain left it much to its own devices. If oil had not been discovered in AD then the UAE would still today have been like Yemen. But that's how the world goes, ask Yemen!