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sage & onion wrote:

arniegang wrote:

RedKite wrote:Re the bank.
Arnie.... Would you have put your money in a British bank in Dubai......like Barclays ? Common-sense tells me you surely did.

I have my investments spread between LloydsTSB and HSBC in Dubai. Through these 2 banks i have offset a large portion of my savings via both their offshore branches in Jersey. Technically i have split it 4 four ways.

The bank guarantee in Dubai does not cover British and American Banks . The guarantee only applies to Arabic Banks.

It is therefore not wise to keep a large sum of money in any 1 non arabic bank. I dont believe there is a major problem with Brit Banks, with the possible exception of Barclays.

The Guarantee does indeed cover the foreign banks that are here, that has been clearly clarified by the Central Bank some time ago, but it is only for money that is on deposit here.

I disagree. Both my managers have shown me the guidance and it is very loosly worded. It is not specific enough to take it as read that the guarantee includes foreign banks.

Sorry to disagree with you Sage, but i have done my homework on this one for very important personal issues.

If you can show me evidence to the contrary i will eat my hat.

arniegang wrote:

sage & onion wrote:

arniegang wrote:

RedKite wrote:Re the bank.
Arnie.... Would you have put your money in a British bank in Dubai......like Barclays ? Common-sense tells me you surely did.

I have my investments spread between LloydsTSB and HSBC in Dubai. Through these 2 banks i have offset a large portion of my savings via both their offshore branches in Jersey. Technically i have split it 4 four ways.

The bank guarantee in Dubai does not cover British and American Banks . The guarantee only applies to Arabic Banks.

It is therefore not wise to keep a large sum of money in any 1 non arabic bank. I dont believe there is a major problem with Brit Banks, with the possible exception of Barclays.

The Guarantee does indeed cover the foreign banks that are here, that has been clearly clarified by the Central Bank some time ago, but it is only for money that is on deposit here.

I disagree. Both my managers have shown me the guidance and it is very loosly worded. It is not specific enough to take it as read that the guarantee includes foreign banks.

Sorry to disagree with you Sage, but i have done my homework on this one for very important personal issues.

If you can show me evidence to the contrary i will eat my hat.

I will do my best to vary your diet.

sage & onion wrote:

arniegang wrote:

RedKite wrote:Re the bank.
Arnie.... Would you have put your money in a British bank in Dubai......like Barclays ? Common-sense tells me you surely did.

I have my investments spread between LloydsTSB and HSBC in Dubai. Through these 2 banks i have offset a large portion of my savings via both their offshore branches in Jersey. Technically i have split it 4 four ways.

The bank guarantee in Dubai does not cover British and American Banks . The guarantee only applies to Arabic Banks.

It is therefore not wise to keep a large sum of money in any 1 non arabic bank. I dont believe there is a major problem with Brit Banks, with the possible exception of Barclays.

The Guarantee does indeed cover the foreign banks that are here, that has been clearly clarified by the Central Bank some time ago, but it is only for money that is on deposit here.

October 12, 2008:
http://emirateseconomist.blogspot.com/2 ... rbank.html

Initially only local banks were guaranteed.

October 14, 2008:
http://www.yahind.com/news/directory.php?id=1899

Guarantees extended to foreign banks with "significant operations in the UAE" for three years. No names were given, only speculated. This clearly gives reason to believe, that foreign capital remains at risk in the UAE without detailed clarification.

If you come up with the press release by the Central Bank i already have a copy of it.

It is seriously open to interptretation mate and as such HSBC and LTSB have assumed it to read, it does not apply to foreign banks in the UAE. I agree with them.

I am certainly not going to take a chance, i prefer to errr on the cautious side .

Arnie,
You will be fine with those two banks [ HSBC and Lloyds] . Barclays have enough assets too. They have told the UK Govt they don't need Govt help.

I spoke to one of my bank managers this afternoon. He has travelled the world in a sporting capacity for decades. He knows the Middle East very well. He is always back and fore to the UAE.

He told me today that he had spoken to an Abu Dhabi Govt official around Christmas. The official told my friend that Abu Dhabi would NEVER let Dubai go down!! It would be a matter of "losing face" above all else, and that is anathema to Arabs .
Apart from that, Dubai and Abu Dhabi are in the UAE together , so they are part of the same country with the same currency. If Dubai went down, it would badly affect Abu Dhabi economically as well.

Everyone knows that Abu Dhabi has plenty of gas and oil and is SERIOUSLY WEALTHY.
So my banker friend is in no doubt that Abu Dhabi will bail Dubai out of its current mess.

He said that Abu Dhabi would take over Emirates Airlines for a start.

By the way, what is the official recorded wealth of Abu Dhabi in pounds Sterling and dollars??

Its obvious to me, that AD would never let the UAE icon fall down to its knees. Recently in the media it was reported that Emirates was being supported financially by means of a partnership share with the AD government.
This resulted in a new problem. AD responded by decreeing that no more governing decisions are made without AD influence and approval. So this development might pose a serious threat to the Western openness of Dubai. AD is somewhat more conservative than Dubai's leader Mo and his gang.

Another interesting fact; There are ongoing plans to introduce a Value added taxation into the UAE. No more tax free shopping in Dubai next year...

may 2008:
http://www.uaeinteract.com/docs/UAE_to_ ... /30307.htm

September 2008; delay for 2010
http://www.czechtradeoffices.com/en/uni ... 010-13858/

RobbyG wrote:Another interesting fact; There are ongoing plans to introduce a Value added taxation into the UAE. No more tax free shopping in Dubai next year...

Reference please. At my point of view It's very doubtfull inf. More waiting is launching income tax as one of Gulf country did last year...

Robby,
There is no doubt that Abu Dhabi will have to curb the excesses of its "prodigal son " to east!!
As you say, A D is more conservative in attitude than Dubai and also more strictlt Islamic, so it might insist on stricter rules of general life-style.

However, the dilemma is that it is trying to attract millions of western tourists and compete with Tenerife , Spain, Greece and Barbados, in becoming a popular holiday destination from September , through the winter to April.

To do that, the strict Islamic lifestyle shown in some Gulf States needs to be relaxed , not tightened.
For example ,people would like to enjoy a cool beer in a pavement cafe , as they watch the world go by.

Typo in previous.....more strictly Islamic....are the words in line 2.

RedKite wrote:Typo in previous.....more strictly Islamic....are the words in line 2.

True, and there is an EDIT button made for these kind of 'repairs'.

No... I'm not screaming to you. Just an educative tip, for non-forum kiters in their sixties

RobbyG wrote:Its obvious to me, that AD would never let the UAE icon fall down to its knees. Recently in the media it was reported that Emirates was being supported financially by means of a partnership share with the AD government.
This resulted in a new problem. AD responded by decreeing that no more governing decisions are made without AD influence and approval. So this development might pose a serious threat to the Western openness of Dubai. AD is somewhat more conservative than Dubai's leader Mo and his gang.

Another interesting fact; There are ongoing plans to introduce a Value added taxation into the UAE. No more tax free shopping in Dubai next year...

may 2008:
http://www.uaeinteract.com/docs/UAE_to_ ... /30307.htm

September 2008; delay for 2010
http://www.czechtradeoffices.com/en/uni ... 010-13858/

You just knew that now ? oh I see you are one of those ppl who thought Dubai is a country hah. Anyway it has been like this since day one sir and nothing changed since but the media publicity of Dubai is the cause of what one might think this is all new, no sir it has been like this since the beginning and AD never stopped supporting and financing the other emirates and has always been but I think they stepped in hard this time bcz Dubai went over their heads and AD had to take control of the hall thing.

uaekid wrote:

RobbyG wrote:Its obvious to me, that AD would never let the UAE icon fall down to its knees. Recently in the media it was reported that Emirates was being supported financially by means of a partnership share with the AD government.
This resulted in a new problem. AD responded by decreeing that no more governing decisions are made without AD influence and approval. So this development might pose a serious threat to the Western openness of Dubai. AD is somewhat more conservative than Dubai's leader Mo and his gang.

Another interesting fact; There are ongoing plans to introduce a Value added taxation into the UAE. No more tax free shopping in Dubai next year...

may 2008:
http://www.uaeinteract.com/docs/UAE_to_ ... /30307.htm

September 2008; delay for 2010
http://www.czechtradeoffices.com/en/uni ... 010-13858/

You just knew that now ? oh I see you are one of those ppl who thought Dubai is a country hah. Anyway it has been like this since day one sir and nothing changed since but the media publicity of Dubai is the cause of what one might think this is all new, no sir it has been like this since the beginning and AD never stopped supporting and financing the other emirates and has always been but I think they stepped in hard this time bcz Dubai went over their heads and AD had to take control of the hall thing.

No, I said it was obvious to me. That doesn't say anything about WHEN I knew that. I only JUST told you who probably wants to 'teach' me that Dubai and Abu Dhabi are cities within the UAE, while in fact it are emirates.

Big differences in my view

RedKite wrote:Robby,
There is no doubt that Abu Dhabi will have to curb the excesses of its "prodigal son " to east!!
As you say, A D is more conservative in attitude than Dubai and also more strictlt Islamic, so it might insist on stricter rules of general life-style.

However, the dilemma is that it is trying to attract millions of western tourists and compete with Tenerife , Spain, Greece and Barbados, in becoming a popular holiday destination from September , through the winter to April.

To do that, the strict Islamic lifestyle shown in some Gulf States needs to be relaxed , not tightened.
For example ,people would like to enjoy a cool beer in a pavement cafe , as they watch the world go by.

I wouldn't think that AD is attracting westerns for their cash, it's more like being complete as a modern city and tourism is part of that like what they are trying to do now in the art field with all the museums being belt, now we know AD has no art back ground or attraction sites that would interest the west but as I said its more like being complete and introducing the city to the world.
.
but it wont be a major issue weather they ll come or not like in Dubai where they depend on tourism allot in their income.

for being strict Islamic part, well why would I visit a country and do the same habits and life style I got back home ? how will I experience the real place if I didn't blind in with its life style ? that's what touring is all about in the first place . but this is just my opinion and how I do it when I travel to other countries and I don't know how alcoholic are you ,just kidding

Ironic isn't it ?? Arabs don't drink if they are strict Muslims.......................yet Alcohol , is originally an Arabic word!!

arniegang wrote:

sage & onion wrote:

RobbyG wrote:

sage & onion wrote:

arniegang wrote:If bought off plan Sage, then no mortgage lender will release all of the agreed amount until the project is signed off.

The banks then reserve the right to make a valuation of the property for mortgage purposes to release the balance of the funds.

If that valuation does not concur with the original asking price then the bank will not release the funds and insist the purchaser find other means of finance by way of a 2nd mortgage.

They wont be able to secure further borrowing because 90% of the banks have adjusted their terms in respect to LTR (loan to value).

Its a time bomb waiting to happen mate.

In this case is the money not paid into an Escrow Account?, forgive me for not understanding the process, it just doesn't seem correct the way that your explaining it.

Current rules denote that the developer can only ask a certain amount upfront. Only after this money has been spend on actual development progress, the developer is able to request more money from the off-plan investor and his client bank.
The bank monitors this development progress in order not to be at risk for losing the approved amount of mortgage to the client.

The money that used to be paid to a developer (old regulations), went in an escrow account, as I believe it was. Unfortunately, in market circumstances same like this, they spended the money on other things, than your development project. So that method was forbidden by the rulers and authority organizations.

So if I arrange a purchase as follows.

I enter into an agreement with a developer, off plan

I arrange a mortgage from a Bank.

I start paying the mortgage.

The Development does not go ahead.

Do I still have to pay all of the outstanding amount to the Bank?

YES

But, the purchaser has redress from the developer for "breach of contract" and as such has the right to ask for a refund of moneys paid. This is why the money is paid into an Escrow account.

The system will be tested many times this year, only then will we see the true results as the developers start to go bankrupt one by one. And the more off plan developments that any one developer has under construction, the more serious the situation ie Emaar, Nakheel and Damac.

For every dirham paid into an escrow account for the master developers, that developer cannot get his hands on the money, and any money they have taken from the Escrow Account will need to be paid back. They will be left with uncompleted projects and one hugeeeeeeeeee debt.

Bye Bye Dubai Inc RIP.

PS... the developers cannot use "Force Majeure " as a reason to not complete projects just because of financial problems and world recession.

Escrow Accounts in Dubai are relatively recent. Many projects are 3 or more years behind schedule and still not delivered. What happens if there was no escrow account on the development as in the early days of the Dubai boom?

Does the buyer still owe money to the Bank? The bank has the title to the property until the loan is paid off in most UAE loans, but in this case there is no property.

Update about AD and Dubai financing dispute and more;

also: Abu Dhabi SWF reserves: $328 billion @ end 2008

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=home

RobbyG wrote:Update about AD and Dubai financing dispute and more;

also: Abu Dhabi SWF reserves: $328 billion @ end 2008

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=home

I'll say most of it is true but what the hell is this

“Abu Dhabi has looked toward Dubai with a mixture of envy and contempt, a bit like old money usually thinks about nouveaux riches and their daredevil business approaches,” Woertz said.


LOL give me a break

uaekid wrote:

RobbyG wrote:Update about AD and Dubai financing dispute and more;

also: Abu Dhabi SWF reserves: $328 billion @ end 2008

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... refer=home

I'll say most of it is true but what the hell is this

“Abu Dhabi has looked toward Dubai with a mixture of envy and contempt, a bit like old money usually thinks about nouveaux riches and their daredevil business approaches,” Woertz said.


LOL give me a break

Kid: If AD reigns Dubai in, how will it change things here in Dubai? Will we see a noticeable difference?

smoggie wrote:

uaekid wrote:

RobbyG wrote:Update about AD and Dubai financing dispute and more;

also: Abu Dhabi SWF reserves: $328 billion @ end 2008

ht tp://w ww.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a2dffEIkpEmg&refer=home

I'll say most of it is true but what the hell is this

“Abu Dhabi has looked toward Dubai with a mixture of envy and contempt, a bit like old money usually thinks about nouveaux riches and their daredevil business approaches,” Woertz said.


LOL give me a break

Kid: If AD reigns Dubai in, how will it change things here in Dubai? Will we see a noticeable difference?

well first of all AD never envied Dubai for the fact that both cities internal Gov sees themselves as a 1 country regardless of what you hear .and i know for a fact that AD had been supporting DUBAI since ever and the fact that many things goes under the table that is not for the public to know.

Dubai had chosen a different approach in developing it self by depending completely on businesses and tourism rather than the oil dollars from AD ( it may have a hidden political reason ) and that was a good move but sadly came with deadly consequences as we see now, AD on the other hand preferred to deal more in cash rather the Dubai credits and loans for it's projects .never the less they remain to be a 1 united country and any downside of Dubai will reflect on the hall country.

I guess we will see a fair stable economic future for Dubai since AD is reigning it for the fact that the global investors now knows that the back up DUBAI got is a v.strong reliable one.

uaekid wrote:

smoggie wrote:

uaekid wrote:

RobbyG wrote:Update about AD and Dubai financing dispute and more;

also: Abu Dhabi SWF reserves: $328 billion @ end 2008

ht tp://w ww.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a2dffEIkpEmg&refer=home

I'll say most of it is true but what the hell is this

“Abu Dhabi has looked toward Dubai with a mixture of envy and contempt, a bit like old money usually thinks about nouveaux riches and their daredevil business approaches,” Woertz said.


LOL give me a break

Kid: If AD reigns Dubai in, how will it change things here in Dubai? Will we see a noticeable difference?

well first of all AD never envied Dubai for the fact that both cities internal Gov sees themselves as a 1 country regardless of what you hear .and i know for a fact that AD had been supporting DUBAI since ever and the fact that many things goes under the table that is not for the public to know.

Dubai had chosen a different approach in developing it self by depending completely on businesses and tourism rather than the oil dollars from AD ( it may have a hidden political reason ) and that was a good move but sadly came with deadly consequences as we see now, AD on the other hand preferred to deal more in cash rather the Dubai credits and loans for it's projects .never the less they remain to be a 1 united country and any downside of Dubai will reflect on the hall country.

I guess we will see a fair stable economic future for Dubai since AD is reigning it for the fact that the global investors now knows that the back up DUBAI got is a v.strong reliable one.

Yeah lets hop for a more stable future for businesses and individuals alike.

I was wondering if we may, for instance, see a tightening of laws regarding alcohol....after the enormous "Sex on the Beach" scandal.

NB. I was celebrating a friends birthday at the Meridien last Friday and Yalumba was in full swing....people snogging etc outside....and that was just the blokes!!!! hehehehe

So the stuff on www.visit-dubai.co.uk regarding Abu Dhabi and Dubai is not strictly true!