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thanks shaf

shafique wrote:The highest prophet in status - for the fact that he brought the last testament and religion - is the Holy Prophet Muhammad, s.a.w.

Does it mean Prophet Muhamed (SAW) has brougt islam as last religion ? how about Jesus (PBUH)? did he bring christianity as religion ? how about mosa (PBUH) did he bring Jewism ? if so then what religion did Adam bring ?

The Quran says that Islam is the final religion and no new religion is required.

If you go to the tread 'Tragedy in Mecca' you will find I have explained the Islamic stance vis-a-vis earlier religions (that they are all valid, but were limited in time and space. All these religions state that a new reformer and new law was to come in future. Islam makes the claim of being the fulfilment of all these promises.)

Take care.

Wasalaam,
Shafique

this is the thread to which Shaf refers:

http://www.dubaiforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=4563

and very informative it is too

Does it mean Prophet Muhamed (SAW) has brougt islam as last religion ? how about Jesus (PBUH)? did he bring christianity as religion ? how about mosa (PBUH) did he bring Jewism ? if so then what religion did Adam bring ?

Adam has brought his wife Hawa (Eve)

lol i do agree with da main topic dat arabs think that they R IT only been in dubai for 4 years and i have experienced enuf been treated like a piece of dirt by an arab funny thing is da guy treated me like dirt looking at me like i didnt belong here lol anyways da day he finds out i m a muslim and am prayin at da same mosque where he does his whole attitude changes
bro liban u said earlier on about prophet muhammed being arabic da quraan being arabic i agree in all of that that islam started from Arabia itself and it spred from asia to europe but bro u sayin all of dat makes it sound like that ARABS are IT they are at the TOP of the hirearchy of human race dats not how it is bro cos god said and quraan says treat all men as equal to u when u go to da mosque reading namaz u standing there shoulder to shoulder to the next guy do u think den that UR IT
so i m sorry i do agree with this topic dat arabs do think of themselves too much islam spred from arabia so dont u think arabs should be good role models for everyone else to follow if they stopped thinking too much of themselves i really think dis world would be a peaceful place to live in and wots more islam would spred


thank u


remember ppl to treat everyone exactly da same doesnt matter if they are rich or poor black or white they are humans they have da same rights to be on earth as da same right u have

Arabs are not better than anyone..... Nobody is better than anybody.... The Prophet (PBUH) himself said so.

But Arabic is the greatest language out there, it is the language of the Quran after all, it is the language of God Himself, it is the language of the angels and it is the language of Paradise.

Great opinion Liban........

Sorry have to disagree with you on that one.....

The status of Arabic as a language is an interesting one.

Here are some facts..
Of all the languages in which religious books have been revealed/written, Arabic is the only one that still has native speakers.

In fact, there are more Arabic speakers now than when the Quran was revealed.

Another fact, is that of all the languages in the world 1600 to 2000 years ago, only Arabic is one that has more speakers now than had then. Even the English spoken 500 years ago will be unitelligible to the modern day anglophone (English speaker). The same applies to 'Indian' and 'Chinese' languages. Ancient Greek and Latin are similarly unintelligible to modern day Greeks and Italians (but there are scholars who have learnt these languages - but they are no one's mother tongue, or intelligble in any one's mother tongue).

Philology is the study of languages - and a general consensus is that the older a language is, the more root words that language has - the richer is that language. Newer languages tend to have more words which can have multiple meanings, and more compound words.

Arabic happens to have the richest (largest) number of root words than any other language.

Now, this is where things get a little contentious - Muslims say that there is a promise in the Quran that the Book/Message will be preserved by God. There is also reference to why it was revealed in Arabic (because it is a clear language - specific words have specific and unambiguous meanings). Muslims say that the preservation of the Quran extends to the preservation of the means of understanding the original words, in their original context - i.e. in Arabic.

The Quran is an aural tradition (it was recited to Muhammad, pbuh, who recited to others who memorised and recited it to others). The primary way of safeguarding the text was by memorisation, and writing it down was secondary. This preserved not just what was said, but how it was said (that is why prayers etc are recited in the original Arabic).

Another contentious point - there is no language that pre-dates Arabic. There are views that there 'must' have been a common root language to the modern day languages - but there are scholars who believe that this proto-language is actually Arabic. But this gets into a philological debate that will probably not interest most people reading this.

Suffice to say, Arabic is an ancient language and is unique in the fact that it is the only language of 1500 years ago that is widely understood in its original (i.e. it is the only 'living' language, from that period - contrast say with Latin which was a later language).


Just a few of my thoughts.

Cheers,
Shafique

Is Arabic an easy language to learn? Anyone studying it right now?

kelly1966 wrote:Great opinion Liban........

Sorry have to disagree with you on that one.....

Not an opinion, but God's Truth. Its in the Quran. Arabic is the language of Paradise, the language of God and the angels.

But that in no way makes Arabs any better than non-Arabs. On the contrary we are all equal and subservient to God.

PS - Aramaic (language of Jesus), is rooted in Arabic.

Yes the language of the times of Jesus was Arabic in which he spoke Aramic a branch of Arabic, but remember a Muslim is not necessarily an Arab, Arabs can be Christian as well.

How do you know its the language of paradise? It will be a language spoken and known by all not just Muslims...what about the people who can't speak or understand Arabic????

God's language is universal. Gods language is what we understand in our mother tongue.

When God sent His Son to this world it just so happened to be in the land of Israel, God's chosen people. Where arabic is spoken. The 3 wisemen were arabs but not a mention of what religion they were, but assuming they were Christian, as they came to pay homage to the Son of God. He says, she says, they say, we say, its all a matter of what we have in our hearts and the faith that will get us to what God has promised in the end. It is not for us to judge what others believe is right or wrong who is the better race or what is truth or what language is spoken there, but to leave all things up to Him who will show us all in the end.

Apologies for being pedantic - but the 3 wise men/kings could not have been 'Christian' as the religion only came into being after the crucifixion, many decades in time later.

Also, Jesus (peace on him), was a practicing Jew who prostrated himself before God when praying (according to the Bible - see references to prayer in the Garden of Gethsemane), never ate pork, was circumcised and only preached to other Israelites. He only claimed to be the Messiah of the Children of Israel.

And for balance, Aramaic is not quite Arabic - although it is derived from Arabic.

Wasalaam,
Shafique

shafique wrote:And for balance, Aramaic is not quite Arabic - although it is derived from Arabic.

I believe I already clarified this in my above post...........

"Yes the language of the times of Jesus was Arabic in which he spoke Aramic a branch of Arabic"

Jesus was never a practicing jew, that why he was condemned by the Jewish religious leaders, he never followed their rules. He came to fulfill the law not to change the law. He was the Messiah to everyone, not just to the Jews but to the Gentiles as well. When He came to earth He was the Messiah of God. He preached both to the Gentiles and the Jews. He is the Son of God, the only way to heaven . No reference as to whether he ate pork or not and in the new testament all food was made good. In the end, it will be God who judges, not us, and then we will all learn the truth of our ways. The Book of Life will hold the names of all who are going to sit at the right hand of God the Father.

Amen

kelly1966 wrote:Yes the language of the times of Jesus was Arabic in which he spoke Aramic a branch of Arabic, but remember a Muslim is not necessarily an Arab, Arabs can be Christian as well.

How do you know its the language of paradise? It will be a language spoken and known by all not just Muslims...what about the people who can't speak or understand Arabic????

God's language is universal. Gods language is what we understand in our mother tongue.

We will not be in our form in Paradise. Even Muslims from other non-Arab countries that do not speak trhe language in this life will know it. There is a massive difference between this life and the next.

Of course Arabs are not all Muslims, I never said that. And not all Muslims are Arabs... There are more non-Arab Muslims than Arabs!!!

wolfsievers wrote:Jesus was never a practicing jew, that why he was condemned by the Jewish religious leaders, he never followed their rules. He came to fulfill the law not to change the law. He was the Messiah to everyone, not just to the Jews but to the Gentiles as well. When He came to earth He was the Messiah of God. He preached both to the Gentiles and the Jews. He is the Son of God, the only way to heaven . No reference as to whether he ate pork or not and in the new testament all food was made good. In the end, it will be God who judges, not us, and then we will all learn the truth of our ways. The Book of Life will hold the names of all who are going to sit at the right hand of God the Father.

Amen

Fact

1) He was the prophet to follow Moses and the one to bring order to the world
2) The Jews did not accept him
3) After his death, man's sins multiplied until the final of all His Glorious Messangers was sent to man, Mohammed (PBUH)

More facts

1) Jesus was not cruxified. God saved him and put an imposter in his place to make the Jews feel pain. That IS the POWER of God.
2) Jesus was a good Jew. He also knew his place. A place determined by God. To be the person to save them from sin. As a good Jew, it is determined that he didn't eat pork. Neither did his mother, Mary.
3) Jesus was not the son of God. God has no children. Only servants, man.

You quote the quran and I will quote the bible and one day we will meet in the other world and then we will both know who was right and who was wrong. Except a man be born again he will not see the kingdom of heaven and every christian knows what that means. Nothing anyone says otherwise will ever make me angry or mad because faith is believing in what you cannot see but you know it is surely there. I guess we are all entitled to our own opinions and you are more than welcomed to yours. That is what I call respect for one another. We are all equal in God's eyes, and we have in this great world the freedom of speech and we were given the will to use our minds for the good that God wants us to do on this earth to prepare the way to the life that will begin in a new world free of all the woes of this temporary world. Anyone can make claims, proving them is another matter.

Kelly - sorry I should have been clearer in what I said - I was agreeing with you that Jesus spoke Aramaic.

(Many Christians actually argue that the lingua franka at the time was Greek - to explain why some of the oldest NT fragments are written in Greek - but given that the Romans were in charge, I never bought this argument. The notable point is that the NT was never written down in Jesus' mother tongue of Aramaic - although his Aramaic words when on the cross have been preserved.

Also note that even at the time of Jesus, Hebrew was a language of religious scholars.)

Apologies again for appearing to criticise.

cheers,
Shafique

Shafique, No worries.....nice to see that we can talk about 2 different religions peacefully.

Now Liban,

I would like to know where you got your facts so that I can read them.....You must remember if it is from that Quran, then that is your belief not mine and if it is from the Bible, then I would really like to see where it says that Jesus and Mary never ate pork, etc. Quote me the scripture!!!!

I appreciate what you are trying to say but you must remember, what you believe in and what I believe in are 2 totally different things, and you should not be trying to make yourself look correct when it come to quoting facts from the Bible. I find with you, you're right when it comes to religion and everyone else is wrong. I don't really like the way you are coming across here. As I said earlier, Muslims and Christians don't believe in the same things, some things are the same but alot of things aren't as well.

If you can verify your facts with direct quotes from the Bible, then let me hear it.

You know what boggles the mind? Jews believe in God, Christians believe in the same God, Muslims believe in the same God, and non-religious people (like myself) believe in the SAME God.

Why are there different religions? Why are there differences, dislike and animosity between different religions? Why can't we all just have one religion: The religion of people who believe in God?

I think the world would be a better, more peaceful place if that was the case!

Just on the point about Jesus following the laws of Judaism - all references in the Bible are of Jesus only preaching to Jews and always following Judaic law.

He did go against the Pharisees and Priests - but only in relation to where they were going against Jewish law.

All food being made lawful took place after St Paul had a vision - this was after Jesus had left Palestine after the crucifixion. The other disciples were not comfortable with the change in message after this point - that the message should be taken to Gentiles and that now circumcision was not a requirement and that pork was no longer forbidden.

No where does Jesus say that the commandment forbidding eating pork was rescinded. Neither Jesus nor his mother are recorded as meeting Paul, and scholars are unanimous that Jesus was a practising Jew (hence he never ate pork).

As to why there are religious wars - it's either because one side fighting against injustice, or that religion is being used for political gain.

Wasalaam,
Shafique

Matthew 15:10-11
"Jesus called the crowd to him and said, "Listen and understand. What
goes into a man's mouth does not make him 'unclean,' but what comes
out of his mouth, that is what makes him 'unclean.' " "

Matthew 15:16-20
""Are you still so dull?" Jesus asked them. "Don't you see that
whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and then out of the
body? But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart,
and these make a man 'unclean.' For out of the heart come evil
thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony,
slander. These are what make a man 'unclean'; but eating with unwashed
hands does not make him 'unclean.' " "

Both Jesus and Paul said that it did not matter what you ate which
included pork. As has been said before, the Old Testament clearly
states that pork is forbidden under the kosher laws which is why some
Jewish people do not eat pork. Christian doctrine however, does not
accept kosher food laws for the reasons noted above.

Jesus came to preach the gospel. The Jews were given privilege to receive it first and this was Jesus’ initial mission (cf. e.g., Rom 1:16). But the mission did not end there since Jesus continued his mission to the Gentiles as the risen Lord through his Church.

Its truly amazing really when you think about it. We all have different religeous beliefs, yet it one and the same person (we hope).

Religion and politics are the two manin driving forces behind all the conflict in this world, wether it be Africa, Europe, Asia or anywhere else for that fact. If we all let people get on and do there own thing, instead of trying to force it down other peoples throats and claiming one is better than the other, we could all live in harmony.

Religion is your own belief, do not try to force it on others (not pointing fingers, but just generally in life.)

yorky500 wrote:If we all let people get on and do there own thing, instead of trying to force it down other peoples throats and claiming one is better than the other, we could all live in harmony.

Very well said Yorky.....I agree with you 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!

People can beleive in what they want. That is the beauty of choice given to us by God. However, there is only one truth, God's Truth.

I see you never came back with anything from the Bible proving your so called facts..............I felt that you were trying to make a point about something, although I don't know where you got your information.

All I have to say is that no one religion is any better than any other. It is our choice what and who we believe and and not to condemn anyone for their beliefs or push another religion in another person's face.

Yorky and Kelly, I totally agree with you! In the end it's all about the same thing and we're given the choice. Each individual is entitled to believe whatever they want.

And you know we only get one life - maybe! - and should make the most of it, but be kind and thoughtful to our fellow human beings and everythings else we share our humble planet with.

I really hate it when people force their opinions on others or refuse to acknowledge that there might be another side to the story.

But the underlying themes are still the same.

sleepless.in.dubai wrote:You know what boggles the mind? Jews believe in God, Christians believe in the same God, Muslims believe in the same God, and non-religious people (like myself) believe in the SAME God.

Why are there different religions? Why are there differences, dislike and animosity between different religions? Why can't we all just have one religion: The religion of people who believe in God?

I think the world would be a better, more peaceful place if that was the case!

Yeah Jews believe in The One, Christains believe in The One, Muslims believe in The One and yes it's the same God but Lo! we are human beings with envious hearts and minds - yes we all believe in SAME God BUT the paths taken to reach the doors of the Heaven are different! - the rules laid out in Christainism, Judaism and Islam are different and ways to earn the ticket to the Heaven are different. Yes many ppl have died in the crusades trying to prove God is in their side which we see even today. Yes there are ppl like us who live in harmony but Lo! as there goes the saying "bad deeds are always conspicuous than good", a single spark or person is needed to spread the hatred and carry the crusade which innocent ppl like us fall prey. Even today if you read the minds of the "elite ppl" who are ruling us (especially US) in the West are proChristain and Judaism and anti-Islamic and there are clerics in the East demonizing West and talking about the downfall. In Middle East the messengers were sent, In Middle East the 3 religions were forged, In Middle East we meet in the Day of Judgement and the fate decided.