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Hey all,

I was just wondering why all my friends are English? Okay, so that's my first language and England's my main home---but ever since I moved here, I don't seem to hang out with any Muslims.

Apparently, its my fault, because I cant be arsed hanging out with people with extreme views.

I mean, I would like Muslim friends here because as much as I love my Western friends, there are some things they just don't understand---and I don't blame them. If you haven't been brought up a certain way then you wont understand, its just the way it is.

But--maybe Im just hanging around in the wrong circles-- when I meet a so called Muslim here, they're extreme---either they hate all Westerners, which totally doesnt suit me since Im not into racism and neither is Islam.

Or the other Muslims I meet have completely adopted Western habits--which defeats the purpose since I just want some normal thinking Muslims who are not ashamed to be what they are?

Its a really bizarre question, I know, but are there Muslims out here who are religious enough to pray but liberal enough to go to a concert once in a while?

Or is there just no hope here and should I just give up?

wordyexpat wrote:Hey all,

I was just wondering why all my friends are English? Okay, so that's my first language and England's my main home---but ever since I moved here, I don't seem to hang out with any Muslims.

Apparently, its my fault, because I cant be arsed hanging out with people with extreme views.

I mean, I would like Muslim friends here because as much as I love my Western friends, there are some things they just don't understand---and I don't blame them. If you haven't been brought up a certain way then you wont understand, its just the way it is.

But--maybe Im just hanging around in the wrong circles-- when I meet a so called Muslim here, they're extreme---either they hate all Westerners, which totally doesnt suit me since Im not into racism and neither is Islam.

Or the other Muslims I meet have completely adopted Western habits--which defeats the purpose since I just want some normal thinking Muslims who are not ashamed to be what they are?

Its a really bizarre question, I know, but are there Muslims out here who are religious enough to pray but liberal enough to go to a concert once in a while?

Or is there just no hope here and should I just give up?

who said Muslims hate Westerners ??
if u are talking abt muslimbangladishi well he just gived a bad reputation adding muslim to his nickname

& don t give up

Hmmmmmmm.....
IMO, there are heaps!!! In fact, I rarely find the kind of people you've mentioned here.

PS - I'm referring to the age group of 20-30

It wasn't hard for me to meet some really nice moderate Muslims. I met them doing family things though, and only had a few single Muslim friends (who were definitely not extreme in their views). I actually never met any Muslims hostile to Westerners - but maybe they only voiced it when around others they thought might share their views. Who knows. Still, I find it strange that you can't find yourself some moderate Muslim friends, because there are tons out there!

I have loads of Muslim friends here! The most noticable thing about them is the fact we hardly ever talk about religion, they are friends first, the fact of their denomination is not important.

I respect their religious upbringing and they appreciate mine.



Knight

kanelli wrote:It wasn't hard for me to meet some really nice moderate Muslims. I met them doing family things though, and only had a few single Muslim friends (who were definitely not extreme in their views). I actually never met any Muslims hostile to Westerners - but maybe they only voiced it when around others they thought might share their views. Who knows. Still, I find it strange that you can't find yourself some moderate Muslim friends, because there are tons out there!

when you say "moderate", do you mean they drink, have gfs and go clubbing and go for prayers on friday?

No, moderate is exactly precise to define, but to me it means people who practice their religion (not people who are Muslim in name only but don't actually practice any tradition from their faith other than the holidays everyone else is having), but aren't extreme in their views. Completely devout Muslims tend to surround themselves with others of the same mindset, so it is more difficult to make friends with them. It is the same with many Christians I know back home. You might be an acquaintance, but can never get close to them because they only hang out with people from the church.

EDIT: I meant to say, "moderate ISN'T exactly precise to define, but to me.." Sorry if I caused any confusion.

wordyexpat wrote:Where are all the normal Muslims in Dubai?

A "normal" Muslim? That sounds judgemental to me. No wonder you're finding it difficult.

wordyexpat wrote:Or is there just no hope here and should I just give up?

Give up. No religion, nationality, group, person likes being patronized ...

wordyexpat wrote:Its a really bizarre question, I know, but are there Muslims out here who are religious enough to pray but liberal enough to go to a concert once in a while?

I used to hang out with this guy who's lived in Dubai all his life, and one day because he thought I would understand presumably, he told me he hated anyone even remotely camp and wanted to kill them all. Needless to say, we haven't hung out since then.

bonk wrote:

wordyexpat wrote:Where are all the normal Muslims in Dubai?

A "normal" Muslim? That sounds judgemental to me. No wonder you're finding it difficult.

wordyexpat wrote:Or is there just no hope here and should I just give up?

Give up. No religion, nationality, group, person likes being patronized ...

It's not judgemental or patronising in my opinion.

kanelli wrote:No, moderate is exactly precise to define, but to me it means people who practice their religion (not people who are Muslim in name only but don't actually practice any tradition from their faith other than the holidays everyone else is having), but aren't extreme in their views. Completely devout Muslims tend to surround themselves with others of the same mindset, so it is more difficult to make friends with them. It is the same with many Christians I know back home. You might be an acquaintance, but can never get close to them because they only hang out with people from the church.

what do you mean by dont actually practice any tradition from their faith? any examples??

Well, people who don't pray, attend religious gatherings or read any religious texts, who don't follow the religious traditions like fasting during Ramadan etc. (in the case of Muslims). My background is Christian, but I don't follow anything from the Christian religion, and the holidays to me are pretty much Santa Claus and Easter Bunny. So while I participate in the holidays they are only to be close to family, they don't have religious significance to me.

wordyexpat wrote:I used to hang out with this guy who's lived in Dubai all his life, and one day because he thought I would understand presumably, he told me he hated anyone even remotely camp and wanted to kill them all. Needless to say, we haven't hung out since then.

By camp, do you mean appearing to be feminine or therefore g.a.y? What does that have to do with "normal Muslims"? I know men from all kinds of religious backgrounds who don't like g.a.y people. Some men are biased that way, it doesn't have to be on religious grounds, it could be because of their own insecurities about their s.e.xu.ality.

rudeboy wrote:

kanelli wrote:It wasn't hard for me to meet some really nice moderate Muslims. I met them doing family things though, and only had a few single Muslim friends (who were definitely not extreme in their views). I actually never met any Muslims hostile to Westerners - but maybe they only voiced it when around others they thought might share their views. Who knows. Still, I find it strange that you can't find yourself some moderate Muslim friends, because there are tons out there!

when you say "moderate", do you mean they drink, have gfs and go clubbing and go for prayers on friday?

No, I hung out with families, so the men didn't have girlfriends. Some drink a glass of wine or beer (none drank until intoxicated - none of us did) with food, not much clubbing going on when you have children at home. Some went to Friday prayers regularly, some once in a while - but they still prayed and Islam is important in their life. A few are married to non-Muslims.

wordyexpat wrote:It's not judgemental or patronising in my opinion.

You're saying "normal" Muslims should be this

wordyexpat wrote:but are there Muslims out here who are religious enough to pray but liberal enough to go to a concert once in a while?

I'd say that's patronizing and judgemental to Muslims who don't want to go to concerts, or those who don't pray regularly enough for you. That was my opinion of why you might not have enough Muslim friends.

kanelli wrote:

rudeboy wrote:

kanelli wrote:It wasn't hard for me to meet some really nice moderate Muslims. I met them doing family things though, and only had a few single Muslim friends (who were definitely not extreme in their views). I actually never met any Muslims hostile to Westerners - but maybe they only voiced it when around others they thought might share their views. Who knows. Still, I find it strange that you can't find yourself some moderate Muslim friends, because there are tons out there!

when you say "moderate", do you mean they drink, have gfs and go clubbing and go for prayers on friday?

No, I hung out with families, so the men didn't have girlfriends. Some drink a glass of wine or beer (none drank until intoxicated - none of us did) with food, not much clubbing going on when you have children at home. Some went to Friday prayers regularly, some once in a while - but they still prayed and Islam is important in their life. A few are married to non-Muslims.

kaneli in islam beer or wine is not allowed. islam is not like the catholics, where you sin and you pray for forgiveness on friday .

If a muslim knows or is intenionaly having beer or wine he is committing a sin. Being a muslim by a name, by drinking wine or beer, by being married to non-muslims doesnt necessarly mean that you are a muslim. there is more to it. sorry but i wouldnt even think your friends are muslim.

kanelli wrote:Well, people who don't pray, attend religious gatherings or read any religious texts, who don't follow the religious traditions like fasting during Ramadan etc. (in the case of Muslims). My background is Christian, but I don't follow anything from the Christian religion, and the holidays to me are pretty much Santa Claus and Easter Bunny. So while I participate in the holidays they are only to be close to family, they don't have religious significance to me.

fasting is one of the fundamentals of Islam. it is the 5 pillors of islam. Religious text, the major one is the Quran, which is a Holy Book of Islam with rules for Muslims what to do and not to do.

like i said your friends wouldnt be classed as "muslims". they have muslim names i.e mohammed or ali but they certainly do not act like a muslim would.
To be part of a religion you have to belive in something. Just to believe that there is one god and muhammed is his last messenger, doesnt mean thats it you are a muslim and you dont need to do anything else. lol there is more to Islam.

i.e praying, giving charity, fasting during ramadan, the kalma (i.e believing in one god and his messenger) and the Haj. With this you also have the Quran which is basically guidelines for muslims what to do and not to do i.e not to drink and if you plan on getting married to a non-muslim you should have her/him become a muslim first, etc.

so i wouldnt say your friends are moderate they are just having muslim names. I would luv to know which country are they from and which sext do they belong to i.e shia, sufism etc.

by the way i am not here to judge your friends. they can do whatever they want because they will only be questionable to god.

rudeboy, you didn't read my original post correctly. Go back and read it again. Indeed I have both moderate Muslim friends and friends from Muslim background but aren't practicing.

Bonk, I used concerts as an extreme example, I don't attend concerts or go clubbing and haven't done since I took up this way of life. I was trying to make a point.

And I do have (my definition) of normal muslim friends, girls and boys---just not here in Dubai. And that was my question, Where are all the normal muslims in Dubai?

I agree with Rudeboy on the fact that I wouldn't also class people who go clubbing, drink alcohol (whether or not to get intoxicated) or go out with non-muslims as actual Muslims. These guys shouldn't even be praying

kanelli wrote:rudeboy, you didn't read my original post correctly. Go back and read it again. Indeed I have both moderate Muslim friends and friends from Muslim background but aren't practicing.

if a person is not practising a religion then they do not belong to that religion.

if a muslim is not practising Islam they are not muslim. there is no such thing as moderate or extremist. In islam there is either a YES or NO.

kanelli wrote:

wordyexpat wrote:I used to hang out with this guy who's lived in Dubai all his life, and one day because he thought I would understand presumably, he told me he hated anyone even remotely camp and wanted to kill them all. Needless to say, we haven't hung out since then.

By camp, do you mean appearing to be feminine or therefore g.a.y? What does that have to do with "normal Muslims"? I know men from all kinds of religious backgrounds who don't like g.a.y people. Some men are biased that way, it doesn't have to be on religious grounds, it could be because of their own insecurities about their s.e.x.u.ality.

Actually, yes I did mean .g.a.y. but the only reason I said it was because he was extreme is because he used religion as his excuse for his feelings

rudeboy wrote:

kanelli wrote:rudeboy, you didn't read my original post correctly. Go back and read it again. Indeed I have both moderate Muslim friends and friends from Muslim background but aren't practicing.

if a person is not practising a religion then they do not belong to that religion.

if a muslim is not practising Islam they are not muslim. there is no such thing as moderate or extremist. In islam there is either a YES or NO.

Well, that is just your opinion. Some of these people don't say they are Muslim, but will say they have a Muslim background. Besides, it isn't for anyone to judge them anyway. People belonging to most religions follow on a continuum of devotion, people's beliefs don't just polarize them to either one end or the other. Religion isn't just about believing or not believing in a god, it is about all kinds of habits and practices as well, and there are conflicting customs and writing in texts about some of these practices - so there is no way religion can be black or white, like how you make it seem to be.

kanelli wrote: Religion isn't just about believing or not believing in a god, it is about all kinds of habits and practices as well, and there are conflicting customs and writing in texts about some of these practices - so there is no way religion can be black or white, like how you make it seem to be.

I dont know that I agree with that--In Islam there are five basic pillars (and according to a saying of the prophet Muhammad, if you follow these five pillars as fully as possible then that's all you need to do as a Muslim)----- the 'habits' or 'customs' of Islam relate to the pillars.

So for example, the most important is believing in one God, and if one believes in one God then he should know God is always there, and that way he should also know that acts of kindness please God---so he would aim to carry our acts of kindness to his fellow man to fulfill this task.

In the same way, if he does not fast or pray then he is missing two fundamentals of Islam. But if he was fasting, he would realise the weakness of man and become more spiritual. If he was praying, he would be more disciplined in his life and able (speaking from personal experience) see things more clearly--you know, take a time-out from life. It makes things, the day, the week, so much easier.

And all the Islamic fundamentals link to each other in some way. However, yes, its not black and white and different people believe in different things. But at the end of the day, God is the ultimate judge, so who cares about people?

kanelli wrote:

rudeboy wrote:

kanelli wrote:rudeboy, you didn't read my original post correctly. Go back and read it again. Indeed I have both moderate Muslim friends and friends from Muslim background but aren't practicing.

if a person is not practising a religion then they do not belong to that religion.

if a muslim is not practising Islam they are not muslim. there is no such thing as moderate or extremist. In islam there is either a YES or NO.

Well, that is just your opinion. Some of these people don't say they are Muslim, but will say they have a Muslim background. Besides, it isn't for anyone to judge them anyway. People belonging to most religions follow on a continuum of devotion, people's beliefs don't just polarize them to either one end or the other. Religion isn't just about believing or not believing in a god, it is about all kinds of habits and practices as well, and there are conflicting customs and writing in texts about some of these practices - so there is no way religion can be black or white, like how you make it seem to be.

kanelli yes it is my opinion and there are many more who will agree with me, some wont. but to be a muslim there is more to then just having a muslim name.

and i said it before I am not judging your friends but only god will. A true muslim is always scared of God. If they arent well good luck to them

Again, some of my friends say they are from a Muslim background (family is Muslim), but don't run around calling themselves Muslims. Many other of my friends call themselves Muslims and practice their religion. I don't judge them on exactly how they practice, it is their business. However, I don't have friends that are fundamentalist/ultra-conservative Muslims who e.g. only speak to other males/females, expect me to cover when they come to the house. The differences are too much for me to feel comfortable. I can only be comfortable with moderates from any religion, including Christianity. I don't like being Bible thumped.

To get back to the question: Where are all the normal Muslims in Dubai?

Well I have a question: Can someone tell me what a "normal" Muslim is? Or for that matter what is a "normal" Christian or a "normal" Jew or a "normal" Hindu?

Is there some telltale sign that indicates one is "normal" in their faith?

wordyexpat wrote:I was trying to make a point.

You did. I was giving you my opinion of the point you made.

wordyexpat wrote:And that was my question, Where are all the normal muslims in Dubai?

And when you say "normal Muslims" my opinion is still the same. Who are you to decide what a normal Muslim is?

You say you want to know why you don't have enough Muslim friends but your posts sound like you want to tell us how "normal Muslims" should behave.

kanelli wrote:Again, some of my friends say they are from a Muslim background (family is Muslim), but don't run around calling themselves Muslims. Many other of my friends call themselves Muslims and practice their religion. I don't judge them on exactly how they practice, it is their business. However, I don't have friends that are fundamentalist/ultra-conservative Muslims who e.g. only speak to other males/females, expect me to cover when they come to the house. The differences are too much for me to feel comfortable. I can only be comfortable with moderates from any religion, including Christianity. I don't like being Bible thumped.

who said fundamentalists only speak to other males/females :S are you saying that if a british guy wishes to shake hands with a local woman and she pulls back, she is a fundamentalist?

every muslim is a fundametanlist. to be a muslim you have to know the basic fundamentals of islam. if you know that then duh obviously you become a fundamentalist

vanelli i know you have some friends who are from a muslim family but dont call themselves muslims. and i know you have some friends who also do practise islam. nice to know that :p.

but honestly speaking i think all you know about Islam, is what you have heard from your friends. its better to pick up a book and read about Islam rather then hearing about it from the horses mouth.

There is no such thing as fundamentalist or extremists :S this is something which has been created politically and by media propoganda.

I didn't say anything about shaking hands did I? Note that fundamentalist doesn't equal radical or terrorist, so don't even head in that direction.

I'm glad you think it is nice to know that I have friends who are Muslims and come from a Muslim background. Hopefully it isn't surprising, because there are Muslims in Canada who I studied and lived with, ate meals with their families. We do that sort of thing in Canada. In Dubai, many of us non-Muslim expats also make friends with Muslims. We don't just stick to "our own kind".

You can judge my knowledge of religion all you like. I'll be honest and tell you I'm an atheist and don't care to read the world's religious texts from front to back. I read a bit here and there if it touches on a point of interest, but I don't feel the need to become well-versed in world religions.

kanelli wrote:I didn't say anything about shaking hands did I? Note that fundamentalist doesn't equal radical or terrorist, so don't even head in that direction.

I'm glad you think it is nice to know that I have friends who are Muslims and come from a Muslim background. Hopefully it isn't surprising, because there are Muslims in Canada who I studied and lived with, ate meals with their families. We do that sort of thing in Canada. In Dubai, many of us non-Muslim expats also make friends with Muslims. We don't just stick to "our own kind".

You can judge my knowledge of religion all you like. I'll be honest and tell you I'm an atheist and don't care to read the world's religious texts from front to back. I read a bit here and there if it touches on a point of interest, but I don't feel the need to become well-versed in world religions.

no you didnt say anything about shaking hands but i did and it was just an example. women in uae do speak with western guys but they dont shake their hands? what does that make them? a fundamentalist? if so thats a good thing and every muslim should be that way.

muslims in the west hmmmmm i have no comments for them, apart from the fact that you really cant practise your religion in a non-muslim country

honestly speaking many muslims have western friends too. but all i was saying was that you should read about any religion before coming on to a forum and clamining your friends do this and that.

reading any text is better then what you hear from your friends. your friends live in a western world. western views are different from eastern views. do you know there are several sects within Islam after its creation. I really dont know what sect your friends belong to. There are some sects who are so moderate that put the christianity at shame so just advising you to be careful with what you hear about true islam. thats all. I am not judging your knowledge. I am just advising you to build your knowledge about religions. Read about Islam and you will be suprised how much you will be touched by it, only because it makes sense.