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Ok here's my situation: I'm a muslim but I was born and raised in Canada. I have never been very religious, but I was wondering if they will consider me a muslim or an expatriate when applying for an alcohol license? I've been puzzled trying to figure this out but everywhere it says they don't give the license to muslims only to expatriates...

It depends what you say on the form, and what your visa says. If Muslim then probably not.

Who decided what gets written on my visa? I could lie on the form, but my first name is typical of a muslim so i don't think they'd buy it. Oh well, looks like one of you christian expats is gonna have to help me out on this one!

Pimpin80 wrote:Who decided what gets written on my visa? I could lie on the form, but my first name is typical of a muslim so i don't think they'd buy it. Oh well, looks like one of you christian expats is gonna have to help me out on this one!

If it says Muslim anywhere on your passport or visa then unlikely...unless you get a 'doctors' report to state that you are officially an alcoholic.

They just assume that all non Muslim expats are alchoholics anyway.



Knight

It's not got much to do with the name. I have a few friends who have a very Muslim/Arabic name - but they are Catholics.

I've met Lebanese and Egyptian Christians with Arabic sounding names so I don't imagine that's an issue. Somewhere in all the forums you fill in for visas etc you'll be asked what religion you are. And I think on the alcohol license application.

Oh wow I was sure my name (Khaled) was typically muslim. What happens if I lie on the application form and I get caught? Do they actually have any way of finding out what religion I really am?

Pimpin80 wrote:Oh wow I was sure my name (Khaled) was typically muslim. What happens if I lie on the application form and I get caught? Do they actually have any way of finding out what religion I really am?

If you lie and they give you the license and then later get found out, you would be in a fair amount of trouble, probably Jail time and deportation.

How will anyone find out his real religion? I don't carry any identity that states my religion at all!

well better play it safe then! I will be living with a friend and she isn't muslim so she has a license, I'll get her to buy the booze for me then! I wouldn't want to get caught and go to jail and get deported for a stupid booze story!

very simple be a good muslim now and dont drink. or just convert to other religion that way do whatever you like and the rest of the muslims dont get a bad name. sorry but i had to say it

Well I was going to say, isn't that highly hypocritical of you, to be Muslim then to want to buy and drink booze! You're straight to hell you know.

Ooh...my...my.....!

A Muslim drinking alcohol, living in sin with a girlfriend, and probably not praying....

You're going straight to hell like Chocoholic said....

However, there is another hell you may go to first (the local jail). Living with a woman, who is not related to you, can easily land you in jail in Dubai. All it takes is a phone call to the police from a conservative neighbor, any zealot person you come in contact with, or from anybody who does not like you.

The chances of people finding out you're not married to your "girlfriend" is much more than the chances of someone finding out you lied about your religion in an obscure application!!!

Ok wow I'm a bit shocked by the last few posts! I'll be a little bit more clear: Yes I'm a muslim, and no I don't practice religion. I really don't appreciate comments from people who say "then be a good muslim and stop doing this or that". As a muslim I know very well that most will do things that are forbidden, but as along as nobody finds out and nobody talks about it it's fine. This is the main thing that has driven me away from the religious institution. This also happens between christians, jews, and all religions, not just muslims. I just don't feel like i need to justify my behavior to people that probably have skeletons in their closet anyway. As for the girlfriend thing, she isn't my girlfriend, she's my best friend's girlfriend and they are already staying together, I'm simply going to join them for the first few months while I get my act together down there. So for those who wanna go for a drink down in Dubai give me a shout!

and if you happen to be a bad muslim that drinks, lives in sin, and dates women (like me hahaha) then I promise I won't tell!

You sound like a 'good' person to me...muslim or not. Makes no difference, as Sage's motto says: "We are all pink on the inside!"

Get yer drinkin boots on!



Knight

Pimpin80,

Reg. the part of going to hell, I was just playing with you. Maybe the "humor" was not too obvious to you!

As to assuming you were a "guy, "didn't you say your name was Khaled? Isn't that an Arabic male name? Anyway, sorry for the misunderstanding!

Whatever.... "No worries." Just take it easy and do your thing. But be careful and keep in mind that this is still a conservative Moslem country!!

Cheers!!!

Wow. Loads of misunderstandings on my part. It was probably due to the second beer I was consuming when I wrote my last comment…

As I just read in another post, you're indeed a guy named Khaled.

Well, now I can say for sure you're going straight to hell for being a bad Moslem!!!

Tom Jones: It's all good man, I'm not mad or anything, I just really don't like when fellow muslims start telling me ah you should do this or do that. I'm a big boy, I do what I do and I know why I do it. As for the "you're a bad muslim going to hell" joke, dont worry about it, if you would hear the jokes my non muslim friends tell me about arabs, muslims, etc they're are much more direct than this! But it's all good, I know they mean no disrespect and they know my sense of humour has no limits!

The following is a couple of quotes from a movie I've watched several times. It's called Zeitgeist. I have rarely heard statements carrying such heavy truths.

“Now, in our culture we've been trained for individual differences to stand out. So, you look at each person and immediately it is brighter, dumber, older, younger, richer, poorer... and we make all these dimensional distinctions, we put them in categories and treat them that way. And we get so that we only see others as separate from ourselves in the ways in which they're separate. And one of the dramatic characteristics of experience is being with another person and suddenly seeing the ways in which they're like you, and not different from you, and experiencing the fact that which is essence in you, which is essence in me is the one, the understanding there is no other. It is all one.”

“And I wasn't born rich and upper, I was just born as a human being and then I learned this whole business of who I am, and whether I'm good or bad or achieving or not, all that's learned along the way.”

“The old appeals to racial, sexual and religious chauvinism, to rabid nationalist fervour are beginning not to work. A new consciousness is developing which sees the Earth as a single organism and recognizes that an organism at war with itself is doomed.” – Carl Sagan, Physicist

Hey Khaled,

You’re an “OK” guy! I like your attitude!

Great quotes too. Thanks!

Speaking of good and bad Moslems, I’ve lived in the gulf countries for many years, too many in fact. Over the years, I’ve come to know a large number of Moslem people -- those who drink and don’t conform to all the teachings of Islam and those who do.

In my dealings with them, I found out something interesting. I cannot say that those who conform are better than those who don’t, and vise versa (“better” in the sense of being more righteous and more honest). I didn’t always feel more comfortable dealing with the conformists, even though they are religious and supposed to be more God-fearing. I’m not saying “adhering” to Islam didn’t make them better persons (because I know Islam tells you to be good and forthright) but I think their adherence was probably a bit superficial and not true to the spirit of Islam. Likewise, I’m not saying either that I always felt more comfortable dealing with the non-conformists.

What I’m saying is that you see good and bad apples on both sides of the fence. Perhaps the problem is with the way Islam is taught, emphasizing the physical side (praying, hajj, fasting, what to eat, what top drink..etc) and not the spiritual and virtuous side (being good and kind). I’m sure the same is true with other religions. You’ve heard of the catholic priests who molested young children!

My point is that you just deal with people as on a case to case basis. You can’t assume they are better or worse, just because they are religious or not, or because they are white or black, or because they are more educated or less educated… Etc. As Sage and DK said above, we, after all, are pink on the inside.

What count is how we conduct ourselves not who we are!!

Tom Jones: True, religion is much more what you have between your ears then what you eat, do, or drink. What happens when you judge people is that they become defensive, and once this is achieved there is no possible understanding or exchanging of opinions/views. I was never scared of my opinions because i can justify them well. And I have a LOT of arab friends that completely agree with me, they also drink and party, but they are serious in life, take care of their families and have great values. If you always limit yourself to hanging around people who think like you then you will never get the chance to reconsider your position, and to me that is essential.

I have a client who's a Saudi royal wich I won't name, and I handle all his needs whenever he comes to Montreal (restaurant reservations, limousines, bodyguards, vip entrance to clubs etc etc). He tells me himself that he has to maintain the image of a good righteous man, but he drinks like crazy, calls escorts all the time, and gets high on coke, plus other things he probably doesn't tell me about. Religions put too much emphasis on social image, so a lot of people end up watching other people's actions. I'm too busy taking care of myself and my friends and family, so I don't have time to mind other people's business.

You are right Khaled!

Hypocrisy and double standards are giving religions a bad name, but as your said, we've got enough problems of our own to worry about other people's affairs!

Hey, I know that you're coming in Jan to look for a job in real estate here in Dubai. However, I'm not sure whether you've heard that the RE market over here is sliding into a downturn that may last from several months to several years. Right now, the local RE firms are not hiring, and some have even begun to lay off some of their employees.

I hate to see you come all the way to Dubai, blow a large chunk of your money then return back home empty handed. I'm not sure that's a wise move at this time, if you don't already have a firm job offer in hand.

Perhaps, it would be better if you could postpone this move for a while....but that's of course all up to you. You know this business more than I do.

Just a little friendly advise, nonetheless!

I think religions have very noble teachings, and it sickens me to see people manipulate them to create division and hatred.

Ya I do realize the real estate market is really down, and to tell you quite frankly it makes me a bit nervous. However I will still give it a shot (stubborn-that's my arab side haha). It's a great life experience, I'm sure I'll meet tons of great people, do all kinds of things I've never done before, etc etc. As for blowing a fat bundle, well I haven't been on a vacation for almost 5 years (that's what ambition does to you lol) So even if I end up spending a lot it's already in my budget.

Worst comes to worst I'll consider it one long vacation! And I have 12 months to return to my current job if ever things don't work out. Or I can come back and work as a real estate agent, since I'm getting my license next week. So I'm not too stressed out about this whole thing. I have lots of options and it's time for me to take some time away from here

Its refreshing to see such sensible, measured and observant posts!
TJ: good on yer!
Pimpin: looking forward to welcoming you to the sand pit and we promise to buy you a drink so you don't blow too much of that hard earned bundle!

This is what this forum is about!



Knight

-- Thanks DK!!

-- Khaled,

It seems you've already got your heart and mind set on this trip. If you can afford it even if you don't succeed, there is of course no problem.

As you said, it will be then like a vacation and an exploratory mission. You'll get to know the town, establish friends and business contacts, and be fully ready when you decide to make the final move later on.

On the other hand, you may still succeed and get lucky on this trip anyway. You seem to have the experience, the right attitude and the drive to make it happen. If you speak Arabic, that would also be a big plus in your favor!

When you get here, just make sure you don't grab all the girls for yourself, Prince Khlaed Al Saud! Leave some for the poor commoners like us!!!

Cheers!

Thanx guys! I appreciate your kind comments! I think everyone has a personal responsability to make this world somehow better, so I'm just pitching in! I'll be looking forward to some drinks with you guys, but only if I get to buy the first round! As for the girls, we'll see how it goes but I'm usually pretty skilled at getting the number out of them! lol

Ya my decision is taken so I AM coming over in january no matter what. I'll make the best of it, maybe I go work in the hospitality industry for a while if things don't work out in real estate, I've got 5 years of experience with the biggest and most luxurious hotel in Montreal (Fairmont the Queen Elizabeth) and although I wasn't management I'm sure I can convince them to give me a management position!

I'm arriving late to this thread. Can you put you're atheist? I hope it doesn't affect your hajj unless you've already done it.

puppypup wrote:I'm arriving late to this thread. Can you put you're atheist? I hope it doesn't affect your hajj unless you've already done it.

I seem to recall that once a muslim, always a muslim.

Easier to claim to be agnostic...or Jedi like me!



Knight

Khalid,

All the best with your Dubai opportunity. As for alcohol, if you care, you won't have any problems when buying drinks in bars and clubs - as someone who was born as a Muslim, i've been very naughty myself