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outworldish wrote:
I am Muslim and i submit my will to Allah.

Then you worship satan.

your role in this forum is of the minion of the Satan, so in turn it is you who worships the satan, not me.

I worship Allah who created Satan.

Its not in my nature to worship created beings like your people.

I worship the creator not the created, I dont worship Jesus, I dont worship satan and i definetly dont worship your trinity.

My lord is the creator of everything that exists. My lord is Allah, the Almight, The All Wise,

outworldish wrote:your role in this forum is of the minion of the Satan, so in turn it is you who worships the satan, not me.

It was like pulling teeth, but you finally confessed that you worship the "allah" as described within the pages of the Koran.

The Koran states plainly, in the opening sura, that "allah" is satan.

Thus...it is you who worships the devil.

I worship Allah who created Satan.

The god "allah" of the Koran never once states in the first-person singular that he created anything...including satan.

The "allah" that you worship has no power.

Its not in my nature to worship created beings like your people.

Your words and actions have thus shown otherwise...

I worship the creator not the created,

Since the Koranic "allah" never states that he personally created anything...what creator do you actually worship?

I dont worship Jesus,

Then you are denying the authors of the Koran.

I dont worship satan

Yes...you do...

and i definetly dont worship your trinity.

You worship the unholy trinity.

My lord is the creator of everything that exists. My lord is Allah, the Almight, The All Wise,

Would this be the "allah" that cannot state (even once) that he created anything all by himself...?

Would this be the "allah" that cannot even state in the first person singular that he is "the first and the last"....?


Just curious....

Do you guys realize that you are arguing over a fairy tale, … Stories for kids? Bible, Koran, Jesus, Mohamed or Pinocchio are all just joke! When will you grow up and start living. Reason that you are following this stupid ancient rules is that why are you so behind! You have so much greatness in your country, but all is wasted… In civilized world is no one worried about gods, and that’s why we have time to relax, go to shrinks and whores and enjoy life! That is why you guys still eating the sand and do donkeys and young boys up the butty! What an culture! What an Arab state of disgrace! ..and all because you can’t have s democracy with gods involved… It is not possible…, there is too many of them, they contradict each other, and the people closest to them are the most corrupted and evil! You can think of anything worse then priest? Someone who will interpret life for you, so he can make living? Make your own judgment, you can look at the whole continent, and see just suffering…, so maybe it’s time to give up, and have finally some fun in your life… NOT DOGMA!

Apple Pie wrote:

outworldish wrote:your role in this forum is of the minion of the Satan, so in turn it is you who worships the satan, not me.

It was like pulling teeth, but you finally confessed that you worship the "allah" as described within the pages of the Koran.

The Koran states plainly, in the opening sura, that "allah" is satan.

Thus...it is you who worships the devil.

I worship Allah who created Satan.

The god "allah" of the Koran never once states in the first-person singular that he created anything...including satan.

The "allah" that you worship has no power.

Its not in my nature to worship created beings like your people.

Your words and actions have thus shown otherwise...

I worship the creator not the created,

Since the Koranic "allah" never states that he personally created anything...what creator do you actually worship?

I dont worship Jesus,

Then you are denying the authors of the Koran.

I dont worship satan

Yes...you do...

and i definetly dont worship your trinity.

You worship the unholy trinity.

My lord is the creator of everything that exists. My lord is Allah, the Almight, The All Wise,

Would this be the "allah" that cannot state (even once) that he created anything all by himself...?

Would this be the "allah" that cannot even state in the first person singular that he is "the first and the last"....?


Just curious....

So , just out of curiosity, What you are saying is with your understanding and superior intellect and your translation of the Quran, that any Muslim who is worshiping Allah "As described in the Quran" is in actuality worshiping Satan? All those who proclaim to be Muslims are Satan Worshipers?

a simple yes or no would do just fine.

outworldish wrote: ...any Muslim who is worshiping Allah "As described in the Quran" is in actuality worshiping Satan? All those who proclaim to be Muslims are Satan Worshipers?

a simple yes or no would do just fine.

Yes.

Apple Pie wrote:

outworldish wrote: ...any Muslim who is worshiping Allah "As described in the Quran" is in actuality worshiping Satan? All those who proclaim to be Muslims are Satan Worshipers?

a simple yes or no would do just fine.

Yes.

by saying that, You are calling All Muslims Satan Worshipers? is that Correct?

outworldish wrote:

Apple Pie wrote:

outworldish wrote: ...any Muslim who is worshiping Allah "As described in the Quran" is in actuality worshiping Satan? All those who proclaim to be Muslims are Satan Worshipers?

a simple yes or no would do just fine.

Yes.

by saying that, You are calling All Muslims Satan Worshipers? is that Correct?

What part of our answer did you not understand...?

Apple Pie wrote:

outworldish wrote:

Apple Pie wrote:

outworldish wrote: ...any Muslim who is worshiping Allah "As described in the Quran" is in actuality worshiping Satan? All those who proclaim to be Muslims are Satan Worshipers?

a simple yes or no would do just fine.

Yes.

by saying that, You are calling All Muslims Satan Worshipers? is that Correct?

What part of our answer did you not understand...?

Once again you have proven the below stated verses accurate:

002.120 Quran
And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say: Surely Allah's guidance, that is the only guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper.

002.135 Quran
And they say: Be Jews or Christians, you will be on the right course. Say: Nay! (we follow) the religion of Ibrahim, the upright, and he was not one of the polytheists.

005.018 Quran
And the Jews and the Christians say: We are the sons of Allah and His beloved ones. Say: Why does He then chastise you for your faults? Nay, you are mortals from among those whom He has created, He forgives whom He pleases and chastises whom He pleases; and Allah's is the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and what is between them, and to Him is the eventual coming.

005.051 Quran
O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

009.030 Quran
And the Jews say: Uzair(Ezra) is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah(Jesus/Eesa) is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

outworldish wrote:009.030 Quran
And the Jews say: Uzair(Ezra) is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah(Jesus/Eesa) is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

Satan is known as "the destroyer"....just like you stated...

Apple Pie wrote:

outworldish wrote:009.030 Quran
And the Jews say: Uzair(Ezra) is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah(Jesus/Eesa) is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

Satan is known as "the destroyer"....just like you stated...

Sometimes I think it was Satan who took control of the biblical Jesus and destroyed him. NT quite supports this thought .

so...exactly how is it that the authors of the Koran understood that "allah" is the devil?

Many verses of the Bible make reference to the "three day and three night" prophesy (Matthew 20:19...etc.). Christian scholars themselves make mention of several cases throughout the Bible where people have put words in Jesus' mouth (see chapter two).

Haven't heard of these "christian" scholars. Where is chapter two?? I'm guessing u copied it from somewhere... nice wee story but there are some obvious flaws if you actually read the Bible.

You would be hard pressed to find a single Christian today who has not heard of the "three days and three nights" prophesy. Where do they get it from? They get it from "the Gospel of Matthew." What does it say? If we read Matthew 12 we will see how the Jews were giving Jesus (pbuh) no end of trouble. They were constantly doubting him and refusing to accept him. They had seen countless signs of his prophethood but insisted on disbelieving. Finally they ask him for a sign of his prophethood. How does Jesus (pbuh) allegedly respond to this request? Does he draw their attention to his healing of the lepers and the blind? No. Does he draw their attention to his casting out of devils? No. Does he point out his raising of the dead? No. Does he mention any of his other countless miracles? No. Well, what does he say? He says:
"But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas: For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth"
Matthew 12:39-40

Take note the actual comparision here is a timeframe... 3 days and 3 nights... its not mentioning dead or alive etc. (next thing you will want Jesus to be swollowed by a whale!)

According to the Bible, the Jews had been carting Jesus (pbuh) back and forth on "Good Friday" between Pontius Pilate and Harod trying to get a conviction and official sanction to crucify him. After all of this carting back and forth, they finally get him to the cross and hang him up on it. However, no sooner have they gotten him up on the cross than they are in a hurry to get him back down again. Why is that? It is because they believed that if he remained on the cross all night then he would defile their land.

There is no verse that says they had to "hurry to get him back down again", you just made that bit up because your timeframe is all wrong.

"And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree: His body shall not remain all night upon the tree, but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God;) that thy land be not defiled, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance."
Deuteronomy 21:22-23
So the Jews begged Pilate to break Jesus' legs so that he would die quickly from suffocation:
"The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the Sabbath day, (for that Sabbath day was an high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.."
John 19:31

The Jews did not "beg" for Jesus's legs to be broken... it was standard practise. If you keep reading from your quote...
"Then the soldiers came and broke the legs of the first and of the other who was crucified with Him. But when they came to Jesus and saw that He was already dead, they did not break his legs... For these things were done that the scripture should be filfulled, "Not one of His bones shall be broken"."
Many things happened that were not the normal such as his legs were not broken and he didn't recieve a proper trail... would take too long to go into why etc.

About the sixth hour (twelve noon), Jesus is claimed to be in front of Pilate (John 19:14).

The sixth hour John refers to was not twelve noon... it does not say that in the Bible. There were 2 common timekeeping systems at that time... Roman and Jewish. If you read all of Johns writings you will see he always uses the Roman system which would make it 6am. John also refers to it as being "early morning" when they went to Pilate (John 18:28-29).

According to the Bible (e.g. John 19:30), Jesus died around the ninth hour (three PM).

It doesn't actually mention anywhere in John (including the verse you quoted - read it!) what time Jesus died. Instead it is mentioned by Mark (15:33-37), who uses the Jewish timekeeping system (day starts timing 6am instead of midnight).

During these three hours Jesus was dressed in purple with a crown of thorns and made fun of, spat on, abused and beaten, and then made to carry the cross to the location of his execution (John 19:17), the cross was planted in the ground, he was hung up on it, his title was written in Hebrew, Greek and Latin on the cross, lots were cast and his clothes distributed, he spoke to one of the two thieves and to an apostle, many people passed before him and rebuked him, he was given something to drink, and he died, all of which took place in these three hours

It was actually 9 hours. According to John, Jesus went infront of Pilate at 6am. According to Mark he was nailed to the cross at 9am and died at 3pm.

Further, it is important to remember that Jonah was swallowed alive by a whale and remained in its belly alive for three days. His miracle was not that the whale swallowed him, nor that it swallowed him whole, nor yet that he remained in it's belly for three days (If I eat a piece of food and it remains in my stomach for three days, is this a "miracle"?). The miracle of Jonah was that HE DID NOT DIE. For Jesus to have properly fulfilled the prophecy, he would need to enter the tomb alive and come out alive just as Jonah entered the whale's belly ALIVE and came out of it's belly ALIVE. Why should Jesus give this of all signs if he was to die and be resurrected? Where is the "miraculous" similarity with the miracle of Jonah?

I don't get what your point is here.
"For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth" Matthew 12:39-40 ...it is comparing the length of time. What Jesus did was way more "miraculous" then Jonah... he actually died and came back to life! And there's a very good reason why he did it... for you.
"Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same nature, that through death he might destroy him who has the power of death, that is, the devil, and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong bondage." (Hebrews 2:14,15)
"Fear not, I am the first and the last, and the living one; I died, and behold I am alive for evermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades." (Revelation 1:17-18)

Matthew 27 The Death of Jesus

50And when Jesus had cried out again in a loud voice, he gave up his spirit.

The Burial of Jesus
57As evening approached, there came a rich man from Arimathea, named Joseph, who had himself become a disciple of Jesus. 58Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus' body, and Pilate ordered that it be given to him. 59Joseph took the body, wrapped it in a clean linen cloth, 60and placed it in his own new tomb that he had cut out of the rock. He rolled a big stone in front of the entrance to the tomb and went away. 61Mary Magdalene and the other Mary were sitting there opposite the tomb.

Note: No mention of breaking of legs or any practice of that and both the robbers on his left and right heaped insults on Jesus.

Mark 15 The Crucifixion
27They crucified two robbers with him, one on his right and one on his left.

Those crucified with him also heaped insults on him.

The Burial of Jesus

42It was Preparation Day (that is, the day before the Sabbath). So as evening approached, 43Joseph of Arimathea, a prominent member of the Council, who was himself waiting for the kingdom of God, went boldly to Pilate and asked for Jesus' body. 44Pilate was surprised to hear that he was already dead. Summoning the centurion, he asked him if Jesus had already died. 45When he learned from the centurion that it was so, he gave the body to Joseph. 46So Joseph bought some linen cloth, took down the body, wrapped it in the linen, and placed it in a tomb cut out of rock. Then he rolled a stone against the entrance of the tomb. 47Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of Joses saw where he was laid.

Note: No mention of breaking legs or practice and both the robbers heaped insults on Jesus.

Luke 23

The Crucifixion

32Two other men, both criminals, were also led out with him to be executed. 33When they came to the place called the Skull, there they crucified him, along with the criminals—one on his right, the other on his left.

39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"

40But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."

42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.[f]"

43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise."

Jesus' Burial

50Now there was a man named Joseph, a member of the Council, a good and upright man, 51who had not consented to their decision and action. He came from the Judean town of Arimathea and he was waiting for the kingdom of God. 52Going to Pilate, he asked for Jesus' body. 53Then he took it down, wrapped it in linen cloth and placed it in a tomb cut in the rock, one in which no one had yet been laid.

Note: According to Dr. Luke's report, no mention of breaking legs or practice and one robber did not heap insults on Jesus but only the other did.

I am not commenting on John's story as it appeared very late and most of it is his own concoction and differs from the three Synoptic gospels. No one knew that his side was pierced. Only John knew?

Which gospel writer should be trusted more? Facts should have been reported the same by the eye-witnesses.

Cheers
BMZ