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Habib wrote:Maaad,

I respect your opinion and you're entitled to it. However, I am ready to delete my posts should you point out a single statement that I cannot support from Shi'i literatures or audios by their Ayatullas.

I just don't know how you figured there's hatred involved therein, when the issue is simply exchaning knowledge on Shi'ites faith. If you, or any reader, feel there's any misinfo presented in my post, you are invited to clear the confusion. But simply to paint the entire post as "full of incorrect facts and things that are blatantly ignorant statements that are always mentioned by people who are seeking divisions." is unacceptable.

im a shia , but not a very good muslim , as i drink and bang women and do other bad things, we are all going to hell regardless of being sunni , shia or mitsubishi. so debating about it will get you nowere anyways , you are going to hell in the end.

you should listen to maad advice , sit with a shia scholar and open that small political disfigured brain of yours.

Still waiting for someone to pick a wrong statement I made.

Mitsubishi

3- They believe in "al-Badaa' " which is basically a Jewish creed, believing that Allah may change His mind.

4- They hold their Imams to a higher rank than the Messengers of Allah

I'm not a Muslim, but I have lived most of my life in a shia country and had 12 years of mandatory Islam teachings at school.

I have never heard of al-badaa. and The ones that hold Imams higher that Muhammad are not called shia. A group which regards Ali higher than Muhammad are called 'Ali-Allahi'. Shias regard their Imams as saints.

you judge them by the ideas of the hardliner extremist shias. Tthey can do the same to Sunnis. I bet there are extremist Sunnis as well.

The Concept of "Badaa' " in Shi'ism originated with them when their Imam Ja'far (Abu Abdullah) declared that his successor would be his son Ismael. However, it happened that Ismael died before his father (remember that they believe their Imams know the unseen, what was and what shall to come, & that they die by their own choice - such is the title of a chapter in al-Kafi). When asked, how it came to being, Ja'far replied: (Badaa Lillah fi Ismael) Allah has decided to change His mind regarding Ismael.

From this incident, the Ismaeli Shi'ites evolved, claiming since Ismael was named an Imam, then the successionship must be in his linage. many Shi'ites scholars have recently wrote on the subject al-Badaa'. It suffices to refer to al-Kafi book of Shi'i traditions to find a dozen narration or so concerning al-Badaa'.

The group Ali-Allahi or the Alawis are another sect all together believing Ali to be Allah in the flesh. However, the 12ver Shi'ites are short of calling Ali Allah, otherwise, for them he does what Allah does equally. This can be supported from their own books and by speeches (audio clips ready) made by their modern scholars.

I can humbly say, I have on my home bookshelves more than 3000 books of theirs.

Habib wrote:Still waiting for someone to pick a wrong statement I made.

How about you provide some sources for your claims then? To argue with your statements all I have to do is put False in front of all of them without mentioning any sources either, and I would be just as credible as you.
Anyway I'll do some more reading and see what I can find regarding your claims, till then why don't you pick one of those '3000 books' and site them or at least provide some links.

MC, your suggestion woul've been valid if the issue was writing a research paper. This is not the case though. I would assume that since you are a shi'a, you ought to refute what you believe to be a wrong statement. In return, I would come to support my claim with a counter evidence from your "original sources". Such is the ABC of a dialogue.

On the other hand, I and the readers, would assume that until proven wrong, all what I presented is valid on Shi'i beliefs.

Again, I stress on the fact that I only stated what I know, based on my studies and research, as a form of exchanging knowledge. No insult or belittling is intended whatsoever.

MC wrote:

Habib wrote:Still waiting for someone to pick a wrong statement I made.

How about you provide some sources for your claims then? ............
till then why don't you pick one of those '3000 books' and site them or at least provide some links.

By all means. Here's a topic I wrote some times back on "Shi'ites Qualities", I pray you find it interesting and verify the sources for the good of all

Qualities of the Shi’ites

The Shi’ites have always complained that the vast majority of AhluSunnah have, for centuries, misjudged them simply because they read books written by Anti-Shi’ites.

To better understand them, the Shi’ites would suggest reading books written by Shi’a authors, in order to have a balanced and fair judgment of who they are and what they stand for.

With some reservations, I may be one of those who support this approach. I have purchased hundreds of their books for the sake of that “better” understanding.

In this little “research”, I intend to list the qualities of the Shi’ites, as derived from their authentic sources, for the sake of being “Fair”.

(1) The Shi'ites Are Bastar/ds:

íæäÓ Èä ÙÈíÇä¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå ÌÚÝÑ Èä ãÍãÏ (Ú) Ãäå ÞÇá: Åä ãæÓì æåÇÑæä ÚáíåãÇ ÇáÓáÇã áãÇ ÏÎáÇ Úáì ÝÑÚæä áã íßä Ýí ÇáÐíä ÍÖÑæÇ æÇÓÊÔÇÑåã íæãÆÐ Ýíåã ãä åæ áÛíÑ ÑÔÏå¡ æáæ ßÇäæÇ ßÐáß ÃãÑæå ÈÞÊáåãÇ¡ æáãÇ ÞÇáæÇ ÃÑÌå æÃÎÇå æÃÔÇÑæå ÈÇáÊÃäí æÇáäÙÑ. ÞÇá: Ëã æÖÚ ÃÈæ ÚÈÏ Çááå íÏå Úáì ÕÏÑå æÞÇá: æßÐáß æÇááå äÍä¡ áÇ íäÒÚ ÅáíäÇ ÅáÇ ßá ÎÈíË ÇáæáÇÏÉ

Yunus bin Dhibyaan, from Abu Abdullah Ja'far bin Muhammad [as] saying:

When Moses and Aaron [as] entered on Faroh, there were none among his advisors who was insane. If they were as such, they would have advised him to kill them both. So when they said: "Keep him and his brother in suspense (for a while) [26:36]", they (actually) advised him with reconsideration and attentivness.
(The narrator) Said: Abu Abdullah then placed his hand on his own chest and said: By Allah, such is our case too; no one comes to our support but he who is a bastar/d.

(Reported by: al-Nu'man b. Muhammad al-Tameemy, Sharh al-Akhbaar vol.3, p. 8; Ali al-Tabarsi, Mishkaatul-Anwaar p.455; al-Majlisi, Bihaar al-Anwaar, vol.13, p.137; Muhammad b. Mas'oud al-Ayyashi, Tafseer al-Ayyashi, vol.2, p. 24; al-Fayd al-Kaashaani, Tafseer al-Saafi, vol.2, p. 225; al-Fayd al-Kaashaani, al-Tafseer al-Asfaa, vol. 1, p. 391; al-Huwaizy, Tafseer Noor al-Thaqalayn, vol. 2, p. 55)

(2) Shi’ites are Hypocrites:

ÎÇáÏ Èä ÍãÇÏ ÞÇá: ÍÏËäí ÇáÍÓä Èä ØáÍÉ ÑÝÚå¡ Úä ãÍãÏ Èä ÅÓãÇÚíá Úä Úáí Èä íÒíÏ ÇáÔÇãí ÞÇá: ÞÇá ÃÈæ ÇáÍÓä (Ú): ÞÇá ÃÈæ ÚÈÏ Çááå (Ú): " ãÇ ÃäÒá Çááå ÓÈÍÇäå ÂíÉ Ýí ÇáãäÇÝÞíä ÅáÇ æåí Ýíãä íäÊÍá ÇáÊÔíÚ

“Narrated Khalid bin Hammaad saying: narrated to me al-Hasan bin Talha (quoting) Muhammad bin Ismael, from Ali bin Yazeed al-Shaami saying: Abul-Hasan [as] said: Abu Abdullah [as] said:

No verse revealed by Allah concerning hypocrites, but it perfectly fits those who are of Shi’a persuasion.”

[Reported by al-Majlisi, Bihaar al-Anwaar, vol. 65, p. 66; Rijaal al-Kash-shy, p. 254, Ali Akbar al-Ghifary, Studies in the Science of Dirayah, p. 155; Rijaal at-Tusi, vol.2, p. 589; Mu’jam Rijaal al-Kho’ei, vol.15, p.265]

ÍÏËäÇ ãÍãÏ ÞÇá ÍÏËäÇ ÇáÍÓä ÞÇá ÍÏËäÇ ÅÈÑÇåíã ÞÇá ÃÎÈÑäÇ ÅÓãÇÚíá Èä ÃÈÇä ÇáÃÒÏí ÞÇá ÍÏËäÇ ÚãÑæ Èä ÔãÑ ÇáÌÚÝí Úä ÌÇÈÑ Úä ÑÝíÚ Èä ÝÑÞÏ ÇáÈÌáí ÞÇá ÓãÚÊ ÚáíÇ (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) íÞæá à áÇ ÊÑæä íÇ ãÚÔÑ Ãåá ÇáßæÝÉ æ Çááå áÞÏ ÖÑÈÊßã ÈÇáÏÑÉ ÇáÊí ÃÚÙ ÈåÇ ÇáÓÝåÇÁ ÝãÇ ÃÑÇßã ÊäÊåæä æ áÞÏ ÖÑÈÊßã ÈÇáÓíÇØ ÇáÊí ÃÞíã ÈåÇ ÇáÍÏæÏ ÝãÇ ÃÑÇßã ÊÑÚææä ÝãÇ ÈÞí ÅáÇ ÓíÝí æ Åäí áÃÚáã ÇáÐí íÞæãßã ÈÅÐä Çááå æ áßäí áÇ ÃÍÈ Ãä ÂÊí Ðáß ãäßã æ ÇáÚÌÈ ãäßã æ ãä Ãåá ÇáÔÇã Ãä ÃãíÑåã íÚÕí Çááå æ åã íØíÚæäå æ Ãä ÃãíÑßã íØíÚ Çááå æ ÃäÊã ÊÚÕæäå Åä ÞáÊ áßã ÇäÝÑæÇ Åáì ÚÏæßã ÞáÊã ÇáÞÑ íãäÚäÇ Ã ÝÊÑæä ÚÏæßã áÇ íÌÏæä ÇáÞÑ ßãÇ ÊÌÏæäå æ áßäßã ÃÔÈåÊã ÞæãÇ ÞÇá áåã ÑÓæá Çááå (Õáøì Çááå Úáíå æÂáå æÓáøã) ÇäúÝöÑõæÇ Ýöí ÓóÈöíáö Çááøóåö ÝÞÇá ßÈÑÇÄåã áÇ ÊóäúÝöÑõæÇ Ýöí ÇáúÍóÑøö ÝÞÇá Çááå áäÈíå Þõáú äÇÑõ Ìóåóäøóãó ÃóÔóÏøõ ÍóÑøðÇ áóæú ßÇäõæÇ íóÝúÞóåõæäó

“Narrated Muhammad saying: Narrated to us al-Hasan saying: Narrated to us Ibrahim saying: Ismael bin Aban al-Azdy informed us saying: Narrated to us Amr bin Shimr al-Ju’fy, from Jabir from Rafie’ bin Farqad al-Bajaliyy saying: I heard Ali bin Abi Talib [as] saying:

See you not, O people of Kufah? By Allah I have stricken you with the stick that I hit the idiots with, but I don’t see you ceasing, and I have stricken you with the whips I use for penal codes, yet I don’t see you behaving. The only thing left is my sword, and I know what will straighten you up by will of Allah, but I don’t like to resort to that with you.

What’s amazing about you and the people of Syria, is that their leader disobeys Allah, yet they obey him, while your leader obeys Allah, but you disobey him. If I say to you go forth to meet your enemy, you say the cold prevents us. Do you think your enemy does not feel the cold you feel? But (the fact is) you resemble those people whom the Messenger [saw] said to them: “Go forth in the cause of Allah” and their leaders said: “Go not forth in the heat” and Allah said to His Prophet: “Say: The fire of Hell is fiercer in heat if only they can understand”

[Ibn Hilaal al-Thaqafi, al-Ghaaraat, p.27:

(3) Shi’ites are the filthiest people on the face of earth:


ÍÏËäÇ ãÍãÏ ÞÇá ÍÏËäÇ ÇáÍÓä ÞÇá ÍÏËäÇ ÅÈÑÇåíã ÞÇá æ ÍÏËäÇ ÅÈÑÇåíã Èä ÇáãÈÇÑß Úä ÈßÑ Èä ÚíÓì ÞÇá ÍÏËäÇ ÇáÃÚãÔ Úä ÚÈÏ Çáãáß Èä ãíÓÑÉ Úä ÚãÇÑÉ Èä ÚãíÑ Ãäå ÞÇá ßÇä áÚáí (Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã) ÕÏíÞ íßäì ÈÃÈí ãÑíã ãä Ãåá ÇáãÏíäÉ ÝáãÇ ÓãÚ ÈÊÔÊÊ ÇáäÇÓ Úáíå ÃÊÇå ÝáãÇ ÑÂå ÞÇá ÃÈæ ãÑíã ÞÇá äÚã ÞÇá ãÇ ÌÇÁ Èß ÞÇá Åäí áã ÂÊß áÍÇÌÉ æ áßäí ßäÊ ÃÑÇß áæ æáæß ÃãÑ åÐå ÇáÃãÉ ÃÌÒÃÊå ÞÇá íÇ ÃÈÇ ãÑíã Åäí ÕÇÍÈß ÇáÐí ÚåÏÊ æ áßäí ãäíÊ ÈÃÎÈË Þæã Úáì æÌå ÇáÃÑÖ ÇÏÚæåã ÝáÇ íÊÈÚæäí ÝÅÐÇ ÊÇÈÚÊåã Úáì ãÇ íÑíÏæä ÊÝÑÞæÇ Úäí

“Narrated to us Muhammad saying: Narrated to us al-Hasan saying: Narrated to us Ibrahim saying: - Also, narrated to us Ibrahim bin al-Mubarak from Bikr bin Issa saying: Narrated to us al-A’mash from Abdul-Malik bin Maysarah from ‘Amarah bin Omair saying:

There was a friend of Ali [as] by the nick Abu Maryam, from the Madinah, whom upon hearing about the disbursement of people away from him, he came to him. When he [as] saw him, he said: (Is that you) Abu Maryam? He replied: yes.

He [as] said: What brought you up here? He said: I did not come to you for a need, but I actually think if you were put in charge of this Ummah, you would do good. He said: O Abu Maryam, I am whom you have known, but I was (unluckily) given the filthiest people on the face of earth; when I call on them, they don’t follow me, and when I go along with what they want, they disburse away from me”

[Ibid, p. 44

(4) Liars Who Spit on Each Other’s Face:

17- æó ÈöåóÐóÇ ÇáúÅöÓúäóÇÏö Úóäö ÇáúæóÔøóÇÁö Úóäú Úóáöíøö Èúäö ÇáúÍóÓóäö Úóäú ÃóÈóÇäö Èúäö ÊóÛúáöÈó ÞóÇáó ÞóÇáó ÃóÈõæ ÚóÈúÏö Çááøóåö ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ßóíúÝó ÃóäúÊó ÅöÐóÇ æóÞóÚóÊö ÇáúÈóØúÔóÉõ Èóíúäó ÇáúãóÓúÌöÏóíúäö ÝóíóÃúÑöÒõ ÇáúÚöáúãõ ßóãóÇ ÊóÃúÑöÒõ ÇáúÍóíøóÉõ Ýöí ÌõÍúÑöåóÇ æó ÇÎúÊóáóÝóÊö ÇáÔøöíÚóÉõ æó Óóãøóì ÈóÚúÖõåõãú ÈóÚúÖÇð ßóÐøóÇÈöíäó æó ÊóÝóáó ÈóÚúÖõåõãú Ýöí æõÌõæåö ÈóÚúÖò ÞõáúÊõ ÌõÚöáúÊõ ÝöÏóÇßó ãóÇ ÚöäúÏó Ðóáößó ãöäú ÎóíúÑò ÝóÞóÇáó áöí ÇáúÎóíúÑõ ßõáøõåõ ÚöäúÏó Ðóáößó ËóáóÇËÇð

“ With that chain: from al-Wash-shaa’, from Ali bin al-Hasan, from Aban bin Taghlib saying: Abu Abdullah [as] said: How would you feel if the fight broke out between the two mosques, and knowledge withdrew back as the snake withdraw back to its hole, and the Shi’ites disunited (among themselves) and called each other liars, and spat on each other’s face? I said: May I be your ransom, there’s no good (to achieve) at that time. He said to me: All the good is then (and there) three times.”

[Reported by al-Kulainy, al-Kafi, vol. 1, p.340]

(5) Shi’ites are Dishonest and of Bad Morals:

5- ÚöÏøóÉñ ãöäú ÃóÕúÍóÇÈöäóÇ Úóäú Óóåúáö Èúäö ÒöíóÇÏò æó ÛóíúÑö æóÇÍöÏò Úóäö ÇáúÍõÓóíúäö Èúäö ÇáúÍóÓóäö ÌóãöíÚÇð Úóäú ãõÍóãøóÏö Èúäö ÃõæÑóãóÉó Úóäú ãõÍóãøóÏö Èúäö Úóáöíøò Úóäú ÅöÓúãóÇÚöíáó Èúäö íóÓóÇÑò Úóäú ÚõËúãóÇäó Èúäö íõæÓõÝó ÞóÇáó ÃóÎúÈóÑóäöí ÚóÈúÏõ Çááøóåö Èúäõ ßóíúÓóÇäó Úóäú ÃóÈöí ÚóÈúÏö Çááøóåö ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÞóÇáó ÞõáúÊõ áóåõ ÌõÚöáúÊõ ÝöÏóÇßó ÃóäóÇ ãóæúáóÇßó ÚóÈúÏõ Çááøóåö Èúäõ ßóíúÓóÇäó ÞóÇáó ÃóãøóÇ ÇáäøóÓóÈõ ÝóÃóÚúÑöÝõåõ æó ÃóãøóÇ ÃóäúÊó ÝóáóÓúÊõ ÃóÚúÑöÝõßó ÞóÇáó ÞõáúÊõ áóåõ Åöäøöí æõáöÏúÊõ ÈöÇáúÌóÈóáö æó äóÔóÃúÊõ Ýöí ÃóÑúÖö ÝóÇÑöÓó æó Åöäøóäöí ÃõÎóÇáöØõ ÇáäøóÇÓó Ýöí ÇáÊøöÌóÇÑóÇÊö æó ÛóíúÑö Ðóáößó ÝóÃõÎóÇáöØõ ÇáÑøóÌõáó ÝóÃóÑóì áóåõ ÍõÓúäó ÇáÓøóãúÊö æó ÍõÓúäó ÇáúÎõáõÞö æó ßóËúÑóÉó ÃóãóÇäóÉò Ëõãøó ÃõÝóÊøöÔõåõ ÝóÃóÊóÈóíøóäõåõ Úóäú ÚóÏóÇæóÊößõãú æó ÃõÎóÇáöØõ ÇáÑøóÌõáó ÝóÃóÑóì ãöäúåõ ÓõæÁó ÇáúÎõáõÞö æó ÞöáøóÉó ÃóãóÇäóÉò æó ÒóÚóÇÑøóÉð Ëõãøó ÃõÝóÊøöÔõåõ ÝóÃóÊóÈóíøóäõåõ Úóäú æóáóÇíóÊößõãú ÝóßóíúÝó íóßõæäõ Ðóáößó ÝóÞóÇáó áöí Ãó ãóÇ ÚóáöãúÊó íóÇ ÇÈúäó ßóíúÓóÇäó Ãóäøó Çááøóåó ÚóÒøó æó Ìóáøó ÃóÎóÐó ØöíäóÉð ãöäó ÇáúÌóäøóÉö æó ØöíäóÉð ãöäó ÇáäøóÇÑö ÝóÎóáóØóåõãóÇ ÌóãöíÚÇð Ëõãøó äóÒóÚó åóÐöåö ãöäú åóÐöåö æó åóÐöåö ãöäú åóÐöåö ÝóãóÇ ÑóÃóíúÊó ãöäú ÃõæáóÆößó ãöäó ÇáúÃóãóÇäóÉö æó ÍõÓúäö ÇáúÎõáõÞö æó ÍõÓúäö ÇáÓøóãúÊö ÝóãöãøóÇ ãóÓøóÊúåõãú ãöäú ØöíäóÉö ÇáúÌóäøóÉö æó åõãú íóÚõæÏõæäó Åöáóì ãóÇ ÎõáöÞõæÇ ãöäúåõ æó ãóÇ ÑóÃóíúÊó ãöäú åóÄõáóÇÁö ãöäú ÞöáøóÉö ÇáúÃóãóÇäóÉö æó ÓõæÁö ÇáúÎõáõÞö æó ÇáÒøóÚóÇÑøóÉö ÝóãöãøóÇ ãóÓøóÊúåõãú ãöäú ØöíäóÉö ÇáäøóÇÑö æó åõãú íóÚõæÏõæäó Åöáóì ãóÇ ÎõáöÞõæÇ ãöäúåõ

“From several of our Associates: from Sahl bin Ziyad and many others, from al-Hussain bin al-Hasan, all of them from Muhammad bin Awramah, from Muhammad bin Ali from Ismael bin Yasaar, from Othman bin Yousuf saying: I was informed by Abdullah bin Kaisaan from Abu Abdullah [as] saying:

I said to him: May I be your ransom, I am your servant Abdullah bin Kaisaan. He said: I know the linage, but I don’t know you. I said: I was born in the Mountain (area) and was raised in Persia. I got to deal with the people through doing business and other means. I (sometime) deal with a man and see that he enjoys a good appearance, good morals and abundant honesty. But when I investigate him, I find him to be of your enemies (A Sunni) . (On the other hand) I may deal with a man who has ill manners, dishonesty, and crookedness, and upon investigation, I find him to be of your supporters (A Shi’a) . How is that possible?

He said to me: O Ibn Kaisaan, Have you not known that Allah [swt] took a clay from paradise and a clay from hell and mixed them together and pulled this out of this, and that out of that? So whatever you may see of honesty, good morals and good appearance from those (Sunnis), is because of what have gotten into them from the clay of paradise, but eventually they go back to the clay they were made of. Likewise, whatever you may see of dishonesty, ill manners and crookedness from those (Shi’ites) is because of what have gotten to them from the clay of hell, but eventually the go back to the original (clay) they were made of.

[Reported by al-Kulainy, al-Kafi vol. 2, p. 4, al-Barqi, al-Mahaasin, vol. 1, p. 229]

(6) The Shi'ites Are of Filthy Mouth & Filthy Attitude:

Úäå¡ Úä ÃÈíå¡ Úä ÚÈÏÇááå Èä ÇáÞÇÓã ¡ Úãä ÍÏËå ÞÇá : ÞáÊ áÃÈí ÚÈÏÇááå (Ú): ÃÑì ÇáÑÌá ãä ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ ããä íÞæá ÈÞæáäÇ ÎÈíË ÇááÓÇä ¡ ÎÈíË ÇáÎáØÉ ¡ Þáíá ÇáæÝÇÁ ÈÇáãíÚÇÏ ¡ ÝíÛãäí ÛãÇ ÔÏíÏÇ ! æÃÑì ÇáÑÌá ãä ÇáãÎÇáÝíä ÚáíäÇ ÍÓä ÇáÓãÊ ¡ ÍÓä ÇáåÏí ¡ æÝíÇ ÈÇáãíÚÇÏ ¡ ÝÃÛÊã ÛãÇ ! ÝÞÇá: Ãæ ÊÏÑí áã ÐÇß ¿ ÞáÊ : áÇ ¡ ÞÇá :Åä Çááå ÎáÞ ÇáØíäÊíä ÝÚÑßåãÇ - æÞÇá ÈíÏå åßÐÇ ÑÇÍÊíå ÌãíÚÇ æÇÍÏÉ Úáì ÇáÇÎÑì. Ëã ÝáÞåãÇ ÝÞÇá: åÐå Åáì ÇáÌäÉ ¡ æåÐå Åáì ÇáäÇÑ æáÇ ÃÈÇáì ¡ ÝÇáÐí ÑÃíÊ ãä ÎÈË ÇááÓÇä æÇáÈÐÇÁ æÓæÁ ÇáÎáØÉ æÞáÉ ÇáæÝÇÁ ÈÇáãíÚÇÏ ãä ÇáÑÌá ÇáÐí åæ ãä ÃÕÍÇÈßã ¡ íÞæá ÈÞæáßã ÝÈãÇ ÇáÊØÎ ÈåÐå ãä ÇáØíäÉ ÇáÎÈíËÉ æåæ ÚÇÆÏ Åáì ØíäÊå ; æÇáÐí ÑÃíÊ ãä ÍÓä ÇáåÏí æÍÓä ÇáÓãÊ æÍÓä ÇáÎáØÉ æÇáæÝÇÁ ÈÇáãíÚÇÏ ãä ÇáÑÌÇá ãä ÇáãÎÇáÝíä ÝÈãÇ ÇáÊØÎ Èå ãä ÇáØíäÉ . ÝÞáÊ: ÝÑÌÊ Úäí ÝÑÌ Çááå Úäß

"From him, from his father, from Abdullah bin al-Qaasim al-Hadhrami, from someone narrated to him the following saying:

I said to Abu Abdullah [as]: I may, on one hand, see a fellow man of our persuasion (Shi'a) with a filthy mouth, filthy attitude and of seldome honoring to appointments, which puts me into a great dipression. On the other hand, I may see a man of our opponents (Sunni) with good appearance, good guidance, and who honors appointments, and that puts me into a great dipression.

He said: Do you know why is that? I said: No. He said: Allah has created both clays, He then rubbed them - and he placed both his hands (palms) one one another- (Syed_Shia: take a due note) then He splitted them and said: This (clay distaned) to Paradise, and this (clay distaned) to Hell and I do not care.

Therefore, the filth of mouth, profanity, bad attitude and dishonoring of appointments from your fellow man who is of your persuasion, is because of the traces caused by the filthy clay, but he (eventaully) gets back to his (original) clay. As for the good guidance, good appearance, good attitude and honor of appointements from those opponents, is due to the traces caused by the (good) clay.

I said: you've relieved me, may Allah relieve you."

[Reported by al-Barqi, al-Mahaasin, vol.1, p. 230, and by al-Majlisi, Bihaar al-Anwaar, vol. 5, p.251

(7) The Wrath of Allah Befell Them:

Úóáöíøõ Èúäõ ÅöÈúÑóÇåöíãó Úóäú ãõÍóãøóÏö Èúäö ÚöíÓóì Úóäú ÈóÚúÖö ÃóÕúÍóÇÈöäóÇ Úóäú ÃóÈöí ÇáúÍóÓóäö ãõæÓóì ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÞóÇáó Åöäøó Çááøóåó ÚóÒøó æó Ìóáøó ÛóÖöÈó Úóáóì ÇáÔøöíÚóÉö ÝóÎóíøóÑóäöí äóÝúÓöí Ãóæú åõãú ÝóæóÞóíúÊõåõãú æó Çááøóåö ÈöäóÝúÓöí

"Narrated Ali bin Ibrahim, from Muhammad bin Issa, from some of our associates, from Abul-Hasan Musa [as] saying:

Verily the Wrath of Allah befell on the Shi'ites, and He gave me the choice: Either myself or them, by Allah I shielded them by choosing myself."

[Reported by al-Kulainy, al-Kafi, vol. 1, p.260]

(8) Shi'a Men: Shameless & Jealousless:

æÝí ÑæÇíÉ ÛíÇË Èä ÅÈÑÇåíã¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå (Ú) ÞÇá: ÞÇá Úáí (Ú): íÇ Ãåá ÇáÚÑÇÞ äÈÆÊ Ãä äÓÇÆßã íæÇÝíä ÇáÑÌÇá Ýí ÇáØÑíÞ ÃãÇ ÊÓÊÍíæä¿ æÞÇá: áÚä Çááøóå ãä áÇ íÛÇÑ

"According to the narration of Ghiyaath bin Ibrahim, from Abu Abdullah [as], that Ali [as] said:

O People of Iraq, I was informed that your women date the men right on the streets, have you no shame? And he said: May Allah curse who has no jealousy."

[Reported by al-Barqi, al-Mahaasin, vol.1, p.204-205; al-Majlisi, Bihaar al-Anwaar, vol. 79, p.115

(9) Sign of the Shi'ites:

ÃóÍúãóÏõ Úóäú Úóáöíøö Èúäö ÃóÓúÈóÇØò Úóäú ÈóÚúÖö ÃóÕúÍóÇÈöäóÇ Úóäú ÃóÈöí ÚóÈúÏö Çááøóåö ( Úáíå ÇáÓáÇã ) ÞóÇáó ãóÇ ßóÇäó Ýöí ÔöíÚóÊöäóÇ Ýóáóãú íóßõäú Ýöíåöãú ËóáóÇËóÉõ ÃóÔúíóÇÁó ãóäú íóÓúÃóáõ Ýöí ßóÝøöåö æó áóãú íóßõäú Ýöíåöãú ÃóÒúÑóÞõ ÃóÎúÖóÑõ æó áóãú íóßõäú Ýöíåöãú ãóäú íõÄúÊóì Ýöí ÏõÈõÑöåö

9- Ahmad from Ali b. Asbaat, from some of our fellows, from Abu Abdullah [as]: Whatever it may be, three characteristics cannot be found in our Shi'ites: (he) who asks (begs) with his hand, there's none among them who is blueish greenish, and none among them who is screwed in the rear.

[al-Kulainy, al-Kafi, vol.5, Ch: Who Lets (Others) to Screw Him, p. 551]
Also reported by Ibn Babawaih al-Qummi in his "al-Khisaal" Ch. Three Charateristics Cannot Be Found Among Shi'ites" p. 131, narration 137 with the following link:

Narrated to us Sa'd b. Abdullah, narrated to me al-Hasan b. Ali b. al-Nu'man, from Ali b. Asbaat, etc.

Also reported by al-Majlisi, Bihaar al-Anwaar, vol. 70, pp 306-307, narration 32.


ÍÏËäÇ ÃÈí ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ÓÚÏ Èä ÚÈÏ Çááå¡ Úä ÃÍãÏ Èä ÃÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå ÇáÈÑÞí¡ Úä ÚÏÉ ãä ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ¡ Úä Úáí Èä ÃÓÈÇØ¡ Úä ÈÚÖ ÃÕÍÇÈäÇ ¡ Úä ÃÈí ÚÈÏ Çááå(Ú) ÞÇá: ãÇ ÇÈÊáì Çááå Èå ÔíÚÊäÇ Ýáä íÈÊáì ÈÃÑÈÚ : ÈÃä íßæäæÇ áÛíÑ ÑÔÏÉ¡ Ãæ Ãä íÓÃáæÇ ÈÃßÝåã¡ Ãæ Ãä íÄÊæÇ Ýí ÃÏÈÇÑåã Ãæ Ãä íßæä Ýíåã ÃÎÖÑ ÃÒÑÞ

Narrated to us Sa'd b. Abdullah, from Ahmad b. Abu Abdullah al-Barqi, from several of our associates, from Ali b. Asbaat from some of our associates, from Abu Abdullah [as]: Whatever Allah may try our Shi'ites with, He will not try them with four (characteristics): That they be basta/rds, or that they beg with their hands, or that they be screwed in their rears, or that a greenish blueish be among them.

(Greenish Blueish is an idiom for a person who holds a great animosity twords others, usually a character of a person with a green or a blue eyes)

[reported by Ibn Babawaih, al-Khisaal, Ch. Four (Characteristics) Shi'ites Cannot Be Tried With, p. 224, narration 56]

ÍÏËäÇ ÃÈí ÞÇá: ÍÏËäÇ ÓÚÏ Èä ÚÈÏ Çááå ¡ Úä ãÍãÏ ÚíÓì Èä ÚÈíÏ¡ Úä ÒÑÚÉ Èä ãÍãÏ ÇáÍÖÑãí¡ æ ãÍãÏ Èä ÓäÇä ¡ Úä ÇáãÝÖá Èä ÚãÑ ÞÇá: ÓãÚÊ ÃÈÇ ÚÈÏ Çááå(Ú) íÞæá: ÃáÇ Åä ÔíÚÊäÇ ÞÏ ÃÚÇÐåã Çááå ÚÒ æÌá ãä ÓÊ - Åáì Çä ÞÇá - Ãæ íäßÍæÇ Ýí ÃÏÈÇÑåã

Narrated to us my father, narrated to us Sa'd b. Abdullah, from Muhammad b. Issa b. Obaid, from Zar'ah b. Obaid al-Hadhramy & Muhammad b. Sinaan, from al-Mufaddal b. Omar saying:

I heard Abu Abdullah [as] saying: Allah has saved our Shi'ites from six (characteristics) ...down to his saying ... Or that they be screwed in their rears.

[Ibid, ch. Allah Saved The Shi'ites From Six Characteristics, p. 336, narration 8]

well done , you pretty much made up some pretty convincing bullshit
Habib , i pray a camel rapes you in your sleep


anyways , you want to talk about shia morals and strenght ?

lets talk about the iran iraq war
iran fought againt the world , iraq was loosing the battle even thou they were supported by all the arab nations and the states, they resorted to chemical warefare , didnt slow the iranian shias down.

now when iraq invaded kuwait , both are majority sunni countries , guess who all turned against their brother , yes all the majority sunni countries like saudia and all .

even thou iran should have been the first to jump in and kick the shit outta iraq with the help of the states and all the other arab nations , iran condemned it all.


you talk about shias being basterds and shias being filty , guess who is supporting palestine? and lebanon and syria? they are not supporting only the shia population but the whole country

who stands in the face of ameirca and israel and condemns the action of these wrong doers in iraq and palestine?
watch the video of ahmadinejad in wahshington university giving his speech, which sunni scholar would dare such a feat?

shias are more readily to accepts sunnis as their brothers and cousins , and they are the ones that will happily give any aid and support. they are the most tolerent people in the middle east.

Nismo,

Although what you've presented is irrelevant and I totally disagree with, yet I was hopping that you stick to the topic and dare to refute what the "Infallible" has reported. All these narrations were reported from your "Infallibles" by your scholars in your books. I did not copy from a Sunni source to avoid biasness. So will you please clarify for us the intension of the "Infallibles", should I have misunderstood them?

nismo wrote:shias are more readily to accepts sunnis as their brothers and cousins , and they are the ones that will happily give any aid and support. they are the most tolerent people in the middle east.

I think the Iranian Sunnis like the ones in Sistan, Golestan or South don't agree with that statement.

spoonman wrote:

nismo wrote:shias are more readily to accepts sunnis as their brothers and cousins , and they are the ones that will happily give any aid and support. they are the most tolerent people in the middle east.

I think the Iranian Sunnis like the ones in Sistan, Golestan or South don't agree with that statement.

i have a close friends from that region in iran
and we ahve been friends since childhood
so i dont know what you people are talking about

and those verses , i have never ever seen this garbage, its all made up or its put out of context or its not translated right. i dont even care to waste my time to research on it i have better things to worry about.
just like the moive " FITNA "


instead of making a topic like sunni vs shia , and puting fingers on each other, someone should make a topic " sunni and shias " and find comon grounds for each other instead of differences

can i just take the time to laugh my friggin head off at this:

Narrated Muhammad saying: Narrated to us al-Hasan saying: Narrated to us Ibrahim saying: Ismael bin Aban al-Azdy informed us saying: Narrated to us Amr bin Shimr al-Ju’fy, from Jabir from Rafie’ bin Farqad al-Bajaliyy saying: I heard Ali bin Abi Talib [as] saying:

wow.... just wow.

if shi'a were all the above,

what are the suni's for subscribing to ^^ that!!!


its 2008 now, and you listen to words narrated in that fashion!

thank you habib for displaying how much of a spiteful hateful person muhammad was......


a true prophet would never talk like that about other people.

nismo wrote:now when iraq invaded kuwait , both are majority sunni countries , guess who all turned against their brother , yes all the majority sunni countries like saudia and all .

iraq only invaded kuwait because the deal was to protect them against iran for a fee... the fee wasnt paid.

kuwait said to sadam, "consider it a brotherly favour" - when saddam bore the brunt of iran's war that severely hurt iraq in every way...

it was justified, but kuwait had the money and the oil to turn america against him.

nismo wrote:

spoonman wrote:

nismo wrote:shias are more readily to accepts sunnis as their brothers and cousins , and they are the ones that will happily give any aid and support. they are the most tolerent people in the middle east.

I think the Iranian Sunnis like the ones in Sistan, Golestan or South don't agree with that statement.

i have a close friends from that region in iran
and we ahve been friends since childhood
so i dont know what you people are talking about

and those verses , i have never ever seen this garbage, its all made up or its put out of context or its not translated right. i dont even care to waste my time to research on it i have better things to worry about.
just like the moive " FITNA "


instead of making a topic like sunni vs shia , and puting fingers on each other, someone should make a topic " sunni and shias " and find comon grounds for each other instead of differences

The Sunnis in Sistan and Baloochestan are very very pissed. They kill a dozen of travelers every now and then to express their anger. Can point you to news regarding this.

nismo wrote:instead of making a topic like sunni vs shia , and puting fingers on each other, someone should make a topic " sunni and shias " and find comon grounds for each other instead of differences

good idea. I wonder what shafique thinks of this concept...

[double post: apparently submitted twice due to forum error message]

ebonics wrote:thank you habib for displaying how much of a spiteful hateful person muhammad was......


a true prophet would never talk like that about other people.

Ebonics, the post shows that you made your reply at 8:28 am. I would assume that you did not take your coffee at the time you posted your response. Now that you are awake, can you tell me what "Muhammad" are you talking about, and how did he come in the picture?

repeated

repeated

repeated

repeated

Hold your horse Habib, we got you the first time.

Flying Dutchman wrote:Hold your horse Habib, we got you the first time.

I am trying hard to lol

O well, When I posted them over two days, it was constantly giving me the error sign.

nismo wrote:
shias are more readily to accepts sunnis as their brothers and cousins , and they are the ones that will happily give any aid and support. they are the most tolerent people in the middle east.

Such are the words of people living outside this world. So much for Shi'i tolerance, I am going to ask you this: There are over 2 million Muslims (Sunnis) in Tehran, can you tell us if they have a single mosque of their owm, and where?

freza wrote:

nismo wrote:instead of making a topic like sunni vs shia , and puting fingers on each other, someone should make a topic " sunni and shias " and find comon grounds for each other instead of differences

good idea. I wonder what shafique thinks of this concept...

I agree with the concept. In my first post in this thread I said I consider the Shia Imams to be important muslim personages and value their teachings. The split between Shia and Sunni on theological grounds took place a few centuries after the Prophet, pbuh, and what started as a political difference morphed into theological differences.

Theologically, I am closer to Habib than Sistani, but I do not agree with the animosity of the attacks or some of the specific attacks. What concerned me with Shia Islam (12er variety) was the central part that hatred played in their faith - the first 3 Khalifas and Aisha were almost swear-words for them. In this thread this animosity is returned to the Shia and it is ugly in my opinion.

In my discussions on Islam which included many different sects, on many core issues I found myself agreeing with Shia over some sunni sects.

Cheers,
Shafique

Habib wrote:

ebonics wrote:thank you habib for displaying how much of a spiteful hateful person muhammad was......


a true prophet would never talk like that about other people.

Ebonics, the post shows that you made your reply at 8:28 am. I would assume that you did not take your coffee at the time you posted your response. Now that you are awake, can you tell me what "Muhammad" are you talking about, and how did he come in the picture?

“Narrated to us Muhammad saying: Narrated to us al-Hasan saying: Narrated to us Ibrahim saying: - Also, narrated to us Ibrahim bin al-Mubarak from Bikr bin Issa saying: Narrated to us al-A’mash from Abdul-Malik bin Maysarah from ‘Amarah bin Omair saying:

There was a friend of Ali [as] by the nick Abu Maryam, from the Madinah, whom upon hearing about the disbursement of people away from him, he came to him. When he [as] saw him, he said: (Is that you) Abu Maryam? He replied: yes.

He [as] said: What brought you up here? He said: I did not come to you for a need, but I actually think if you were put in charge of this Ummah, you would do good. He said: O Abu Maryam, I am whom you have known, but I was (unluckily) given the filthiest people on the face of earth; when I call on them, they don’t follow me, and when I go along with what they want, they disburse away from me”

calling people the filthiest people to walk the earth is no prophet-like quality... would you not agree?

ebonics wrote:
calling people the filthiest people to walk the earth is no prophet-like quality... would you not agree?

Unless it happens to be true

Look, all prophets have been accused of un-prophetlike behaviour. Jesus, for example, has been accused of cursing a fig tree for not having fruit, despite it not being fig season! That is un-prophetlike behaviour - and as Muslims we do not agree that a prophet of God would curse a tree in that way and therefore believe it not to be true.

Cheers,
Shafique

ebonics wrote:

calling people the filthiest people to walk the earth is no prophet-like quality... would you not agree?

ebonics: FYI only. A Hadith attributed to the Prophet [pbuh] must be preceded by a chain of narrators. This makes the Prophet [pbuh] the last man in the chain. Whereas in this case, the man you are talking about is at the begenning of the chain.

Furthermore, when a statement or a Hadith is reported by Muhammad, the Messenger of Allah, you will notice that we always follow it with [Peace be upon him] to distinguish him from others sharing the name. Kabish?