ebonics - you say you do not lie and hate liars.
Do you honestly tell me that you believe that all the Arabs who read or listened to the Quranic verse you quoted did not understand Allah to be saying 'Marry!', but understood it to mean 'have s.e.x with'?
Lane is a lexicon of Arabic - it is not confined to the Quran.
Cheers,
Shafique
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Does Muhammad, Pbuh, Meet Biblical Test Of Prophethood?
- shafique
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ebonics, it appears to me that you have not opened up the link I gave you to the entry for nkH. Did you have a look at it?
It explains the meaning in classical Arabic of the word and all its forms, and gives many examples.
I think I now understand your error and misunderstanding.
'ankihoo' and the other forms of the word used in the Quran can only be understood to mean 'marry', 'marriage' etc. It is a specific word and separate from the zwj family of words for spouse.
As you yourself say a few messages back, in the Quran the word means 'marry and have marital relations', so coitus is understood.
I also understand that many Christians view s.e.x as sinful, shameful and dirty. This is not a trait shared by Judaism and Islam.
Nikah - means marriage.
Other derivatives are used as slang and offensive slang. However, the form and use in the Quran is not offensive (except to those who think s.e.x is shameful) and always with the meaning of marriage.
There are other words used to denote fornication and adultery in the Quran, so the word does not exclusively mean 's.e.x' - but means marriage and all that goes with a marriage.
Now, given that the usage in the Quran is pure and unambiguous (for you say all the usages mean 'marry') - I think where we disagree is where you try and link the slang uses of DERIVATIVE words back to the Quranic use of the the imperative 'Marry!'.
Arabic has specific words for fornication. Just as in English, a diplomatic way of saying s.e.x is to say 'marital relations' - now if over time 'marital relations' becomes an offensive slang word (rather than a diplomatic term), then this does not mean that 'marry' also becomes an ugly term.
My understanding of Arabic as a language is that Fursa'a is the purest and oldest form of the language. Dialects are all derivations of Fursa'a - therefore if in Egyptian and other dialects 'nkH' has become a swear word then this does not mean that it was necessarily so in Fursa'a.
Also, it may be that Christians find marital relations shameful and are imparting a sensibility on a word that is not shameful to native Arab speakers.
Nikah is not a dirty word - for it means to marry when used in context of a man and a woman. It also means to 'make love' / 'have s.e.x' when used in the context of a man and his wife.
So, Islam can be accused of not seeing s.e.x as shameful, as Christian priests see s.e.x - but the Quran cannot be accused of using a dirty word - the word is unambiguous in the contexts used in the Quran - and always mean marriage.
Had the Quran used the words in different contexts or used the derivations ebonics listed, then it would be guilty of being crude. However it does not.
Perhaps it is because of Christian background of ebonics that he finds s.e.x shameful and the word nikah distasteful?
Cheers,
Shafique
It explains the meaning in classical Arabic of the word and all its forms, and gives many examples.
I think I now understand your error and misunderstanding.
'ankihoo' and the other forms of the word used in the Quran can only be understood to mean 'marry', 'marriage' etc. It is a specific word and separate from the zwj family of words for spouse.
As you yourself say a few messages back, in the Quran the word means 'marry and have marital relations', so coitus is understood.
I also understand that many Christians view s.e.x as sinful, shameful and dirty. This is not a trait shared by Judaism and Islam.
Nikah - means marriage.
Other derivatives are used as slang and offensive slang. However, the form and use in the Quran is not offensive (except to those who think s.e.x is shameful) and always with the meaning of marriage.
There are other words used to denote fornication and adultery in the Quran, so the word does not exclusively mean 's.e.x' - but means marriage and all that goes with a marriage.
Now, given that the usage in the Quran is pure and unambiguous (for you say all the usages mean 'marry') - I think where we disagree is where you try and link the slang uses of DERIVATIVE words back to the Quranic use of the the imperative 'Marry!'.
Arabic has specific words for fornication. Just as in English, a diplomatic way of saying s.e.x is to say 'marital relations' - now if over time 'marital relations' becomes an offensive slang word (rather than a diplomatic term), then this does not mean that 'marry' also becomes an ugly term.
My understanding of Arabic as a language is that Fursa'a is the purest and oldest form of the language. Dialects are all derivations of Fursa'a - therefore if in Egyptian and other dialects 'nkH' has become a swear word then this does not mean that it was necessarily so in Fursa'a.
Also, it may be that Christians find marital relations shameful and are imparting a sensibility on a word that is not shameful to native Arab speakers.
Nikah is not a dirty word - for it means to marry when used in context of a man and a woman. It also means to 'make love' / 'have s.e.x' when used in the context of a man and his wife.
So, Islam can be accused of not seeing s.e.x as shameful, as Christian priests see s.e.x - but the Quran cannot be accused of using a dirty word - the word is unambiguous in the contexts used in the Quran - and always mean marriage.
Had the Quran used the words in different contexts or used the derivations ebonics listed, then it would be guilty of being crude. However it does not.
Perhaps it is because of Christian background of ebonics that he finds s.e.x shameful and the word nikah distasteful?
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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Silly me - rather than spending time going to Lexicons and doing the research from first principles, I should have been more diligent with my Google search.
This web page tackles the ebonics accusation head on, and gives some interesting links at the end of the article:
http://www.yourmediatube.com/bassam_zaw ... _nikah.htm
Anyway, as ebonics' post was the first time I had heard this accusation, I did not think to check whether it had been addressed by others.
Cheers,
Shafique
This web page tackles the ebonics accusation head on, and gives some interesting links at the end of the article:
http://www.yourmediatube.com/bassam_zaw ... _nikah.htm
Anyway, as ebonics' post was the first time I had heard this accusation, I did not think to check whether it had been addressed by others.
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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whoooahh! too much going on here 
Shafique, before I reply to your post..I read it twice and was a bit incredulous at your replies so I'm wondering 'what's the point, if this isn't really a debate'. About the Hebrew prophets, I'm not getting you. You know their stories I assume, you know that they were HUMAN (hence no human is perfect no matter what) so I don't understand what you mean when you say they didn't sin. All humans sin, it's human nature to sin. Now degrees of sin, that's another thing, lying is perhaps the most common, murder the worst (with exceptions perhaps, like justified war, self-defense, etc.). But anyway, even those spiritually privileged offended God and were punished. David lost his son, Moses didn't get to see his promised land. And the striking of the rock was an extremely symbolic gesture instead of "talking" to it, he struck it - God said, hey I've forgiven you before but you continue to sin, you see how you are. Miriam got punished for questioning the motives of Moses and possibly for being prejudiced against a black women - Miriam's got a skin disease for 7 days! The point is: God did not tolerate offenses. Where do you get that he did? Or perhaps, it's something that your faith doesn't acknowledge? because then the logical question would be, why wasn't Mohammad punished? So it's best not to acknowledge that God punished....that's what it seems.
Don't you think the Jews would be better at writing about their lineage of prophets much better than any other group that came much after them?
Re: deuteronomy, I just can't fathom how anyone can extract an Islamic prophet from the book of Deuteronomy - the "Children of Israel" book.
Is the entire book - it's history and its translation taken into account by Muslims? If so, is Moses' reference to Jesus and the tribes of Israel completely ignored?
EDIT: off the subject a bit, but I just read:
Shafique, before I reply to your post..I read it twice and was a bit incredulous at your replies so I'm wondering 'what's the point, if this isn't really a debate'. About the Hebrew prophets, I'm not getting you. You know their stories I assume, you know that they were HUMAN (hence no human is perfect no matter what) so I don't understand what you mean when you say they didn't sin. All humans sin, it's human nature to sin. Now degrees of sin, that's another thing, lying is perhaps the most common, murder the worst (with exceptions perhaps, like justified war, self-defense, etc.). But anyway, even those spiritually privileged offended God and were punished. David lost his son, Moses didn't get to see his promised land. And the striking of the rock was an extremely symbolic gesture instead of "talking" to it, he struck it - God said, hey I've forgiven you before but you continue to sin, you see how you are. Miriam got punished for questioning the motives of Moses and possibly for being prejudiced against a black women - Miriam's got a skin disease for 7 days! The point is: God did not tolerate offenses. Where do you get that he did? Or perhaps, it's something that your faith doesn't acknowledge? because then the logical question would be, why wasn't Mohammad punished? So it's best not to acknowledge that God punished....that's what it seems.
Don't you think the Jews would be better at writing about their lineage of prophets much better than any other group that came much after them?
Re: deuteronomy, I just can't fathom how anyone can extract an Islamic prophet from the book of Deuteronomy - the "Children of Israel" book.
Is the entire book - it's history and its translation taken into account by Muslims? If so, is Moses' reference to Jesus and the tribes of Israel completely ignored?
EDIT: off the subject a bit, but I just read:
is it true?talking about a hadith, where muhammad said, if you masturbate, its like you "nakah't omak" - or "had s.e.x with your mum"
- freza
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freza - your confusion will be ended if you go over to the other thread which has details of which Biblical prophecies Muhammad, pbuh, fulfils.
In brief though - the Bible has God promising to make the progeny of Ishmael into a great nation. This is a promise to non-Jews.
Deut 18 talks about a prophet that will be raised like Moses, and from the Bretheren of the Jews (God could have said there, from 'amongst you' but said 'from amongst your bretheren').
Now Christians argue 'bretheren' excludes the non-Jews, but as the Arabs are cousins of the Jews, I think they count as 'bretheren'.
Also, the very fact that no Prophet that meets the criterion 'like Moses' is found before Muhammad, pbuh, this is a clear indication that he fulfils this prophecy. He is 'like Moses' in that he brings a new Book and also fought wars (to name only two aspects).
Muhammad, pbuh, also fulfils the prophecy that he will speak God's words directly (speak only what he hears and not from himself), in respect of the Quran.
These are my views. Just as Jews will quote the Bible and reject Jesus for not meeting their interpretations (see other thread on the subject), so Christians employ exactly the same tactics to reject Muhammad, pbuh.
Jews and Christians are entitled to interpret the Bible as they see fit. I just believe both are wrong to reject Jesus and Muhammad, pbuh (Christians do believe in Jesus though, obviously).
Cheers,
Shafique
In brief though - the Bible has God promising to make the progeny of Ishmael into a great nation. This is a promise to non-Jews.
Deut 18 talks about a prophet that will be raised like Moses, and from the Bretheren of the Jews (God could have said there, from 'amongst you' but said 'from amongst your bretheren').
Now Christians argue 'bretheren' excludes the non-Jews, but as the Arabs are cousins of the Jews, I think they count as 'bretheren'.
Also, the very fact that no Prophet that meets the criterion 'like Moses' is found before Muhammad, pbuh, this is a clear indication that he fulfils this prophecy. He is 'like Moses' in that he brings a new Book and also fought wars (to name only two aspects).
Muhammad, pbuh, also fulfils the prophecy that he will speak God's words directly (speak only what he hears and not from himself), in respect of the Quran.
These are my views. Just as Jews will quote the Bible and reject Jesus for not meeting their interpretations (see other thread on the subject), so Christians employ exactly the same tactics to reject Muhammad, pbuh.
Jews and Christians are entitled to interpret the Bible as they see fit. I just believe both are wrong to reject Jesus and Muhammad, pbuh (Christians do believe in Jesus though, obviously).
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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Shafique,
please be focused enough to answer the specific issues I raised about the prophets.
please be focused enough to answer the specific issues I raised about the prophets.
- freza
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freza wrote:Shafique,
please be focused enough to answer the specific issues I raised about the prophets.
This thread is about whether Muhammad, pbuh, meets the Biblical criteria for prophethood. He does.
I repeat, I do not believe that prophets committed sins and therefore do not believe they were punished. Muhammad, pbuh, fulfils all the criteria from the Bible. What you call sins and punishments of Biblical prophets, I compare with the descriptions of the same prophets in the Quran.
I do agree prophets make mistakes, but these aren't sins. The Quran clears up the accusations against prophets found in the Bible.
Anyway, good to see that you don't really have answers to my direct questions concerning why Muhammad does not meet the clear prophecy of Deut 18.20,21 and 22 - for example.
It will not have escaped your notice that I had to start a new thread with Biblical prophecies.
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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shafique
i cited 3 examples of practical use of the word
1 to have s.e.x. with your hand
2 to have s.e.x. with an animal
3 to have s.e.x. with your mother
none of them the word marry would be suitable. - so the literal meaning is the act of having s.e.x. but could referred to as marrying a women, and obviously having marital relations.
it does not work in reverse - you cant marry your hand, you cannot marry an animal, you cannot marry your mother.
the quran could have used to word tazawagoo, couple with, or marry in that specific instance.
but it chose to say, but you can sleep with.
Nakh, enkahoo, enkah, all the same word derived from the same word, of the same meaning, to sleep with.
you'll never accept, because you're shafique...
and yes i looked at the link, it had nearly every instance of the word and they all said marry......
do you want to tell me why is it that the wisdom of the quran chose to use that word in that instance and chose a derivitive of "zawag" in other instance?
zawag is socially acceptable, nekah isnt.
if you're going to "have s.e.x. with something" you will enkah it, given in the examples i have shown
im restricted on actually searching "the meaning of the word nekah" because all i have is 3 charachters in arabic that i search for yielding PRACTICAL USE of the word.
that same practical use is what that specific word was used for, before the quran.
so in short, that aya reads LITERARLY:
sleep with, two, three or four women but if you cannot do them justice, then just one.
i cited 3 examples of practical use of the word
1 to have s.e.x. with your hand
2 to have s.e.x. with an animal
3 to have s.e.x. with your mother
none of them the word marry would be suitable. - so the literal meaning is the act of having s.e.x. but could referred to as marrying a women, and obviously having marital relations.
it does not work in reverse - you cant marry your hand, you cannot marry an animal, you cannot marry your mother.
the quran could have used to word tazawagoo, couple with, or marry in that specific instance.
but it chose to say, but you can sleep with.
Nakh, enkahoo, enkah, all the same word derived from the same word, of the same meaning, to sleep with.
you'll never accept, because you're shafique...
and yes i looked at the link, it had nearly every instance of the word and they all said marry......
do you want to tell me why is it that the wisdom of the quran chose to use that word in that instance and chose a derivitive of "zawag" in other instance?
zawag is socially acceptable, nekah isnt.
if you're going to "have s.e.x. with something" you will enkah it, given in the examples i have shown
im restricted on actually searching "the meaning of the word nekah" because all i have is 3 charachters in arabic that i search for yielding PRACTICAL USE of the word.
that same practical use is what that specific word was used for, before the quran.
so in short, that aya reads LITERARLY:
sleep with, two, three or four women but if you cannot do them justice, then just one.
- ebonics
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freza wrote:
EDIT: off the subject a bit, but I just read:is it true?talking about a hadith, where muhammad said, if you masturbate, its like you "nakah't omak" - you "had s.e.x with your mum"
according to the link no...
- ebonics
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lane's lexicon shafique is a compiled book, made by the british, in 1842... the credibility of that in my eyes, is ZILCH
it compiled or should i say plagarised other books into one - ill let you assess the accuracy of that book based on that information, yourself.
to me reading that page does show me that it is translated in context with the quran...
but other than the quran, no one that i know of, would use that word instead of "zawag" - to couple, ie to marry.
and no one would say it on a dinner table.
http://online.ectaco.co.uk/main.jsp%3bj ... urce=marry
outlines every possible use to use the word marry - in a socially acceptable sense, in many literal meanings.... nekah isnt one of them.
it compiled or should i say plagarised other books into one - ill let you assess the accuracy of that book based on that information, yourself.
to me reading that page does show me that it is translated in context with the quran...
but other than the quran, no one that i know of, would use that word instead of "zawag" - to couple, ie to marry.
and no one would say it on a dinner table.
http://online.ectaco.co.uk/main.jsp%3bj ... urce=marry
outlines every possible use to use the word marry - in a socially acceptable sense, in many literal meanings.... nekah isnt one of them.
- ebonics
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ebonics - thank you for bringing this issue to my attention.
I have now seen that the allegation is baseless and have posted links to other sites showing the meanings of the word in question. Islam does not view coitus as shameful like many Christian churches do, so perhaps there is the source of your confusion.
To say that no one will say Nikah (marriage) in normal social circumstances is something that all can check with their Muslim and Arabic speaking friends - it will show whether what you are saying is true or false.
You have made your point very clearly. I am not 100% sure you are convinced by your own arguments - but I have nothing more to add on the subject.
Cheers,
Shafique
I have now seen that the allegation is baseless and have posted links to other sites showing the meanings of the word in question. Islam does not view coitus as shameful like many Christian churches do, so perhaps there is the source of your confusion.
To say that no one will say Nikah (marriage) in normal social circumstances is something that all can check with their Muslim and Arabic speaking friends - it will show whether what you are saying is true or false.
You have made your point very clearly. I am not 100% sure you are convinced by your own arguments - but I have nothing more to add on the subject.
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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so far you established that "nekah" is used in the marital sense primarily, and can be used referring to marital relations, when speaking about non marital matters.
i established the complete opposite, it is the act of having s.e.x. and can be used when referred to marital relations
so far you have not showed me any practical examples to debunk what i established.... but i have shown you 3 examples, where any sort of marital relations within the meaning of the word does not apply (you cannot marry your hand, animal, mother)..... hence what you established, is false. and i can bring up another 20,000 examples if you like.
one word cannot have its primary meaning dismissed in certain examples, the primary meaning prevails (the act of having s.e.x) - and any other meanings thereof can apply after that (marital relations)
i established the complete opposite, it is the act of having s.e.x. and can be used when referred to marital relations
so far you have not showed me any practical examples to debunk what i established.... but i have shown you 3 examples, where any sort of marital relations within the meaning of the word does not apply (you cannot marry your hand, animal, mother)..... hence what you established, is false. and i can bring up another 20,000 examples if you like.
one word cannot have its primary meaning dismissed in certain examples, the primary meaning prevails (the act of having s.e.x) - and any other meanings thereof can apply after that (marital relations)
- ebonics
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ebonics - you have made your points well, but I am not convinced.
An arabic dictionary contradicts your statements, and unless you can produce some verifiable evidence, there is nothing more to add.
Can we focus on freza's answers to my questions now?
Cheers,
Shafique
An arabic dictionary contradicts your statements, and unless you can produce some verifiable evidence, there is nothing more to add.
Can we focus on freza's answers to my questions now?
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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im still waiting for the appology re: accusing me of lying.
in all the disagreements of points of view that we have had, not once did i accuse you of blatently lying to get your point across.
in all the disagreements of points of view that we have had, not once did i accuse you of blatently lying to get your point across.
- ebonics
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ebonics, according the dictionary/lexicon I quoted, you were lying.
I have not seen any evidence to make me change my mind. The lexicon says that nkH can be used to indicate 's.e.x' in certain usages, but it's main meaning is 'marriage'.
Lane is a dictionary of Classical Arabic and therefore explains words used in the Quran.
You have yet to present evidence that contradicts this, and even have said (subsequent to the initial allegation) that in the Quran the primary meaning of the word is marriage!
I am now repeating myself - so please, I'll only respond when you add something new. Otherwise the evidence speaks for itself.
Cheers,
Shafique
I have not seen any evidence to make me change my mind. The lexicon says that nkH can be used to indicate 's.e.x' in certain usages, but it's main meaning is 'marriage'.
Lane is a dictionary of Classical Arabic and therefore explains words used in the Quran.
You have yet to present evidence that contradicts this, and even have said (subsequent to the initial allegation) that in the Quran the primary meaning of the word is marriage!
I am now repeating myself - so please, I'll only respond when you add something new. Otherwise the evidence speaks for itself.
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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shafique wrote:You have yet to present evidence that contradicts this, and even have said (subsequent to the initial allegation) that in the Quran the primary meaning of the word is marriage!
ebonics wrote:i have shown you 3 examples, where any sort of marital relations within the meaning of the word does not apply (you cannot marry your hand, animal, mother)..... hence what you established, is false. and i can bring up another 20,000 examples if you like.
one word cannot have its primary meaning dismissed in certain examples, the primary meaning prevails (the act of having s.e.x) - and any other meanings thereof can apply after that (marital relations)
- ebonics
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Your examples are the exceptions. Please quote from a dictionary, otherwise you are still lying.
Cheers,
Shafique
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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my examples are the exceptions? i already said i can list another 20,000 -do i really have to for you to admit you're wrong?
what sort of logic are you using?
i quoted you from the dictionary when i searched in english the word marry - NEKAH did not come up in the results
http://online.ectaco.co.uk/main.jsp%3bj ... urce=marry
here is the link again, get your arabic speaker to read the results for you
results are:
TAZAWAG, WAHAD, SAHAR, NASAB, ZAWAG
no Nakah, Nekah, Nakh there unfortunatly.
what sort of logic are you using?
i quoted you from the dictionary when i searched in english the word marry - NEKAH did not come up in the results
http://online.ectaco.co.uk/main.jsp%3bj ... urce=marry
here is the link again, get your arabic speaker to read the results for you
results are:
TAZAWAG, WAHAD, SAHAR, NASAB, ZAWAG
no Nakah, Nekah, Nakh there unfortunatly.
- ebonics
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ebonics, just show us the dictionary entry for Nikah. That will end the discussion.
I have shown one respected dictionary and this contradicts you.
From the Arabic forum:
http://www.rudood.com/modules.php?name= ... le&sid=318
and
The word "Nikaah" (Nikaa7) is the noun for the verb Nakaha (Naka7a) which means he married, thus Nikaah means marriage. Prophet Shu'aib said to Prophet Moses, may the peace & blessings of Allah be on both: (I want to (Unkihaka) one of these two daughters of mine), as in the Holy Qur'an, which means I want to give you in marriage one of my two daughters. But if this guy is ignorant in Arabic, then there's nothing you can do about it. Subhanallah.
Cheers,
Shafique
I have shown one respected dictionary and this contradicts you.
From the Arabic forum:
http://www.rudood.com/modules.php?name= ... le&sid=318
and
The word "Nikaah" (Nikaa7) is the noun for the verb Nakaha (Naka7a) which means he married, thus Nikaah means marriage. Prophet Shu'aib said to Prophet Moses, may the peace & blessings of Allah be on both: (I want to (Unkihaka) one of these two daughters of mine), as in the Holy Qur'an, which means I want to give you in marriage one of my two daughters. But if this guy is ignorant in Arabic, then there's nothing you can do about it. Subhanallah.
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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There is a famous hadith by Muhammad which says (alnekaho sonati - Marriage is my tradition) I dont think he meant s.e.x by that.
- spoonman
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i wonder if this is actually going to display or not:
فتجده فى سورة النسوان يقول “إنكحوا ما طاب لكم من نساء مثنى و ثلاث و رباع …و ما ملكت ايمانكم ” فيلاحظ الفعل الامر “إنكحوا “
فكتاب القرآن لم يقل ان فلانا كان ينكح ما طاب له من النسوان مثنى و ثلاث و رباع و كان ينكح ايضا ما ملكت ايمانه من المسبيات و المخطوفات و الموظفقات لديه و العاملات لديه و خادمات المنزل
فلو كان كتاب القرآن يقول هذا فهو لم يأمر احدا بممارسة تلك الفواحش النجسة بل انه فقط يسجل حادث ارتكاب احد البشر الانجاس تلك الفواحش النجسة
spoonman, a famous hadith also says: god cursed Nake7 yadaho - or god cursed the masturbator -
(which is different from the other one i quoted earlier to do with the mother) - but is accurate...
i dont think he meant marriage of the hand by that.
العادة السرية أو الاستمناء أو ناكح يده حرام عند جمهور العلماء لقوله تعالى {وَٱلَّذِينَ هُمْ لِفُرُوجِهِمْ حَافِظُونَ
is its tafseer which reads:
the secret doing, or self pleasure, or NAKE7 yadaho (s.e.x.i.n.g one's hand), is haram to people then it goes through and cites a verse that i only copied about 4 words from.
فتجده فى سورة النسوان يقول “إنكحوا ما طاب لكم من نساء مثنى و ثلاث و رباع …و ما ملكت ايمانكم ” فيلاحظ الفعل الامر “إنكحوا “
فكتاب القرآن لم يقل ان فلانا كان ينكح ما طاب له من النسوان مثنى و ثلاث و رباع و كان ينكح ايضا ما ملكت ايمانه من المسبيات و المخطوفات و الموظفقات لديه و العاملات لديه و خادمات المنزل
فلو كان كتاب القرآن يقول هذا فهو لم يأمر احدا بممارسة تلك الفواحش النجسة بل انه فقط يسجل حادث ارتكاب احد البشر الانجاس تلك الفواحش النجسة
spoonman, a famous hadith also says: god cursed Nake7 yadaho - or god cursed the masturbator -
(which is different from the other one i quoted earlier to do with the mother) - but is accurate...
i dont think he meant marriage of the hand by that.
العادة السرية أو الاستمناء أو ناكح يده حرام عند جمهور العلماء لقوله تعالى {وَٱلَّذِينَ هُمْ لِفُرُوجِهِمْ حَافِظُونَ
is its tafseer which reads:
the secret doing, or self pleasure, or NAKE7 yadaho (s.e.x.i.n.g one's hand), is haram to people then it goes through and cites a verse that i only copied about 4 words from.
- ebonics
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shafique, the same way not every dictionary contains the word "f.u.c.k" in english - is the same way this word is treated,
and without an arabic keyboard, and an arabic version of windows installed on my system, i unfortunatly cannot search a dictionary entry as easily as you think i can. i can only search the actual word through google and site practical examples of the word, as used by muslims.
and without an arabic keyboard, and an arabic version of windows installed on my system, i unfortunatly cannot search a dictionary entry as easily as you think i can. i can only search the actual word through google and site practical examples of the word, as used by muslims.
- ebonics
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Thanks for admitting you can't come up with a dictionary which backs up your claim and contradicts the dictionary I quoted.
case closed.
Cheers,
Shafique
case closed.
Cheers,
Shafique
- shafique
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i cannot do so on the net, but believe me once i can get a scan of one it will be uploaded within the minute.
case far from closed my friend, the only case closed here is you not admitting to any sort of common sense on the matter..
the primary meaning of the word CANNOT be dismissed in certain cases - that is the bottom line.
case far from closed my friend, the only case closed here is you not admitting to any sort of common sense on the matter..
the primary meaning of the word CANNOT be dismissed in certain cases - that is the bottom line.
- ebonics
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this is the best (in comparison with other crappy ones) arabic to english dictionary I found and there is no entry for words:
النکاح
نکح
نکاح
الناکح
and so on, weird.
النکاح
نکح
نکاح
الناکح
and so on, weird.
- spoonman
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spoonman wrote:this is the best (in comparison with other crappy ones) arabic to english dictionary I found and there is no entry for words:
النکاح
نکح
نکاح
الناکح
and so on, weird.
yes spoonman, because as i already said, it is not easy to just pick up a dictionary and find the word "f.u.c.k" in it, not all dictionaries contain it, as it is socially unacceptable and it is a rude word to be using.... thank you for proving my point.
shafique, we can stop talking about this when you retract your accusation of me lying regarding the topic of this word. and we can agree to disagree from there, just like we agree to disagree on everything else.
but from the above, there's enough proof, that im definatly not lying when it comes to this word.
- ebonics
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I think you will find F word in all common english dictionaries; for example, you can find F word on http://www.merriam-webster.com
Perhaps not in school dictionaries or childrens dictionaries.
Perhaps not in school dictionaries or childrens dictionaries.
ebonics wrote:spoonman wrote:this is the best (in comparison with other crappy ones) arabic to english dictionary I found and there is no entry for words:
النکاح
نکح
نکاح
الناکح
and so on, weird.
yes spoonman, because as i already said, it is not easy to just pick up a dictionary and find the word "f.u.c.k" in it, not all dictionaries contain it, as it is socially unacceptable and it is a rude word to be using.... thank you for proving my point.
shafique, we can stop talking about this when you retract your accusation of me lying regarding the topic of this word. and we can agree to disagree from there, just like we agree to disagree on everything else.
but from the above, there's enough proof, that im definatly not lying when it comes to this word.
- Nucleus
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That the prudishness is embarrassing. Take the word "f.u.ck." For decades is has been the most used—and abused—monosyllabic term in the English language. Yet only when R.W. Burchfield, chief editor of the OED from 1971 to 1984, whose mission it was to register "offensive parlance" under the radar of the Oxford dons
not all dictionaries have it, of course some do, i havent picked up a printed dictionary in over 10 years, and i just use the online resource whenever i want something.
for things like f.u.c.k i just go straight to the urban dictionary.
- ebonics
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shafique wrote:ebonics, just show us the dictionary entry for Nikah. That will end the discussion.
I have shown one respected dictionary and this contradicts you.
From the Arabic forum:
http://www.rudood.com/modules.php?name= ... le&sid=318
can you explain to me exactly, how this article is of any worth? im guessing you didnt read it.......
and
The word "Nikaah" (Nikaa7) is the noun for the verb Nakaha (Naka7a) which means he married, thus Nikaah means marriage. Prophet Shu'aib said to Prophet Moses, may the peace & blessings of Allah be on both: (I want to (Unkihaka) one of these two daughters of mine), as in the Holy Qur'an, which means I want to give you in marriage one of my two daughters. But if this guy is ignorant in Arabic, then there's nothing you can do about it. Subhanallah.
again explaining the word in context of the quran - brilliant.
- ebonics
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ebonics - the article is in Arabic, so no I didn't understand it. What does it say?
It seems to me that we have come to an impasse. You say that Nikah is a dirty word, and all I can reply with is the dictionary entry from nikah and the knowledge that all Muslims call the marriage ceremony 'nikah'.
The Arabic lexicon does say that in some derivations and contexts Nikah also means having s.e.x - and so I have guessed that some Christians who find s.e.x shameful think that the word Nikah is shameful because it is understood as (as you say) 'to marry and have marital relationships'.
I fully concede that you have more knowledge of arabic swear words than I have, and I fully concede that I can't dispute that 'neeke' etc are swear words today in many dialects.
However, to say that a word which the dictionary describes as meaning 'marriage' is dirty because derivative words are used in slang is putting the cart before the horse.
Your initial assertion was that the Quran uses coarse language and wondered whether God would use such words, yet you quickly conceded that the context of the Quranic usage is always understood to mean 'marriage' as the primary meaning.
When the dictionary exposed this assertion as false, I pointed this fact out to you and gave you the option to recant. You continue to refuse.
Nikah = marriage and not 'f....k' - that is what I am calling you a liar on. If you did not mean to say this, then I will apologise when you clarify.
Cheers,
Shafique
It seems to me that we have come to an impasse. You say that Nikah is a dirty word, and all I can reply with is the dictionary entry from nikah and the knowledge that all Muslims call the marriage ceremony 'nikah'.
The Arabic lexicon does say that in some derivations and contexts Nikah also means having s.e.x - and so I have guessed that some Christians who find s.e.x shameful think that the word Nikah is shameful because it is understood as (as you say) 'to marry and have marital relationships'.
I fully concede that you have more knowledge of arabic swear words than I have, and I fully concede that I can't dispute that 'neeke' etc are swear words today in many dialects.
However, to say that a word which the dictionary describes as meaning 'marriage' is dirty because derivative words are used in slang is putting the cart before the horse.
Your initial assertion was that the Quran uses coarse language and wondered whether God would use such words, yet you quickly conceded that the context of the Quranic usage is always understood to mean 'marriage' as the primary meaning.
When the dictionary exposed this assertion as false, I pointed this fact out to you and gave you the option to recant. You continue to refuse.
Nikah = marriage and not 'f....k' - that is what I am calling you a liar on. If you did not mean to say this, then I will apologise when you clarify.
Cheers,
Shafique
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