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She is Wafa Sultan. I cannot understand arabic, but I think the translations are right. Watch this video.

She is one amazing woman.

http://switch3.castup.net/cunet/gm.asp? ... wmv&ak=nul

Surely, she must have received numerous death threats already. Like everybody critizing Islam openly. Probably soon a new fatwa. What are those people so afraid of that they cannot stand critizism?

i watched this live when it happened..... she's 100% right and if they killed her would die a martyr of truth.


many free thinkers have prices on their heads, worth many many many millions.... zakaria boutros' blood money has reached 20 million US dollars..

muslims only know how to silence truth by murder.

Interesting clip - but she makes some fundamental errors in her claims.

1. The presenter correctly says that 'clash of civilizations' was not coined by the Muslims but by S Huntingdon. The reply that the Quran says to fight the non-believers and the world is divided between muslims and non-Muslims is given as an example of Muslims beginning the 'clash of civilisations'.

Firstly, labelling muslims and non-muslims is not saying anything about civilisations. Islamic history is full of benign rule of non-Muslims - notably the rule of Jerusalem.

2. She has a go at the Quran for labelling people with names they would not call themselves - People of the Book she says is one. Then she goes on to say that the People of the Books have learnt a lot from science books etc and that Islam is a religion of ignorance.

She is deliberately forgetting that it was under Islamic governance that the science of the ancients was preserved, augmented and transmitted to the West.

3. She says that Islam is a religion that treats women badly. Some muslims treat women badly, contrary to Islam - but we all know the rights that Islam gave women more than a millenium before European women were afforded the same rights (owning property, divorce etc).

4. She states that no Jew has entered a 'church' and killed people. I think she is being disingenuous by focusing on Jews not attacking Germans - Jews did commit horrendous acts of terrorism against the British Army - the King David hotel bombing, the booby trapping of murdered soldiers etc. And more recently a Jewish settler entered a mosque and killed many worshippers before running out of ammo and being killed himself (that constitutes a suicide attack to me) - and he is feted as a hero by many Israelis (not all). I cannot believe she is unaware of this.

Now - for someone that can selectively quote Quranic verses, distort historical events etc, I think she is just being provocative rather than engaging in valid discussion about the state of Muslims and Arabs.



Cheers,
Shafique

Shafique, she is talking about the now and present. During the Middle Ages as you point out, science (algebra, astronomy etc.) was much more developed in Muslim regions than in Europe. However, nowadays its the other way around. She same applies to rights for women. What caused this shift?

Flying Dutchman wrote:Shafique, she is talking about the now and present. During the Middle Ages as you point out, science (algebra, astronomy etc.) was much more developed in Muslim regions than in Europe. However, nowadays its the other way around. She same applies to rights for women. What caused this shift?

I didn't get the message that she was talking about the here and now - primarily because the first response was to go back to the Quran and talk about what happened at the dawn of Islam (that Muslims were told to fight non-Muslims etc).

Similarly when criticising the Quran/Prophet for labelling Christians etc. She went from calling Christians 'People of the Book' to saying that Muslims did not value science (a valid criticism of the Muslim world for the past many centuries).

If her intent was to criticise the Arabs and Muslims of today - then I have no problem in that - I would support her. The Muslims do need a collective kick up the back-side. However, to criticise the Quran in the way that she is doing is being deliberately provocative and ultimately is counter productive.

To answer your question:

What caused the shift was the politicisation of religion - this trend happened in all religions. Religions (we believe) all follow the same pattern (as do civilisations). Initially there is a need for a reformer to be sent by God - because the world has become generally corrupt and the former religious teachings have become corrupt.

Initially the prophet is opposed by all those in power, only attracts the weak and the meek. Then ultimately the religion triumphs (but this takes normally one century at least) - then as time goes by the religious adherents become those who are in power - power goes to their collective heads and they corrupt the religious teachings for political ends.

This is clear in Christianity, for instance. If you look at the state of Christianity in the Middle Ages, and compare to the state of Islam in our Middle Ages you will see many parallels. Where Christianity had the inquisition, inter-sect fightings, crusades, (and more recently)Apartheid etc - Islam has similar inter-sect wars, oppressive regimes and oppression of women.

The oppression of women in Saudi is purely political - nothing to do with Islam (the Saudi regime needs to control the population and Arab women are historically out-spoken and would not ordinarily stand for oppressive dictats - of the wives of the Prophet, for example, the first was a successful business woman and the youngest led an army into war after his death). Also some cultures have gone back to their bad-old ways of oppressing women - going against the teachings of Islam.

Pre-Islamic times, women in Arabia had absolutely no rights at all. It was not uncommon for female babies to be buried alive - and the Quran records this fact and explicitly outlaws this practice. This shows what the arab culture was like before Islam. Unfortunately we have echoes of this old culture today amongst a small minority of Arabs/Muslims.

Cheers,
Shafique

lol if wafa dies she deserves it going around and stirring trouble.

Y doesnt any woman from the Christianity or Jewish or Hinduism write a book about how women were treated in those books??

hmmm oh wait i know, she thought hey i ll write a book about islam. islam which happens to be in the news for all the bad reasons, from war in afghanistan to osama bin ladin. and since islam is everywhere in the media ppl will surely buy my book and i ll become a millionaire.

stupid b$(%ch, i hope she gets what she deserves. and hey hey before you crictise me, how many women from christianity, jewish or even hinduism relgion are treated bad?? how many?? and why is it no1 writes a book about them? dont give me the c$ap that oh christianity, judaism, hinduism is SO perfect that women are treated right and properly. which is utter bull$hit.

He Rudeboy, why is it that she deserves to die? People insult Christianity and Judaism constantly. If they donot like, Christians or Jews go to court, not issue death threats or actually killing people. According to me, self-confident people donot resort to violence. I am really interested in this, since one the reasons for me to be on this forum is to learn from local culture Islam. Is this Islamic culture, to threaten people with death if they say something you donot like?
And donot get me wrong me, I think locals here treat foreigns much better than most European countries treat Muslims. The hospatility and respect I receive here makes me humble and I am trying to learn from that. But what´s with the death threats that also you seem to support?
And there are enough people critizing how women are treated in Christianity and Judaism, but they donot receive death threats, maybe thats why they donot get ´famous´.

Flying Dutchman wrote:He Rudeboy, why is it that she deserves to die? People insult Christianity and Judaism constantly. If they donot like, Christians or Jews go to court, not issue death threats or actually killing people. According to me, self-confident people donot resort to violence. I am really interested in this, since one the reasons for me to be on this forum is to learn from local culture Islam. Is this Islamic culture, to threaten people with death if they say something you donot like?
And donot get me wrong me, I think locals here treat foreigns much better than most European countries treat Muslims. The hospatility and respect I receive here makes me humble and I am trying to learn from that. But what´s with the death threats that also you seem to support?
And there are enough people critizing how women are treated in Christianity and Judaism, but they donot receive death threats, maybe thats why they donot get ´famous´.

flyingdutchman yeh i have a problem with this woman because she is writing c£ap about women in islam. maybe she is right maybe she is not. but let it be any religion women are treated bad. y dont i see anyone writing a book about how women in the chritianity religion are treated badly? how their drunk husband beat the crap out of them? what about the women in the Hindu religion who are raped even after marriage? what about the lil girls they wed of to older men? Y dont i see anyone writing about the other religions? Y oh wait all the other are so perfect that hey we will target Islam because lately islam has been in the news for all the BAD REASONS. when was the last time you switched on CNN and didnt hear the word Islamic Extremists or Islamic Militants or no rights for women in Saudi? Y?

my mum is a muslim so is my sis why werent they treated badly in our family???

lets be honest tommorow if i decided to release a bbook bad mouthing islam and christianity. which one would be a hit? hmmm let me guess islam probably. what makes it worse is that the CNN and western media is making a huge fuss out of this. when in their own countries they have a large no of divorce rate compared to any muslim country. lol hypocrits.

rudeboy wrote:i have a problem with this woman

And that´s why she deserves to die?

Flying Dutchman wrote:

rudeboy wrote:i have a problem with this woman

And that´s why she deserves to die?

In my mind, no she does not deserve to die for her views (however provocative they may be).

In the Quran there is no punishment for blasphemy - all it says that if people speak about profane things, leave their company and don't rejoin until they change the subject.

However, some Muslims disagree and believe that blasphemy should be punished despite the Quran and Hadith.

Cheers,
Shafique

Flying Dutchman wrote:

rudeboy wrote:i have a problem with this woman

And that´s why she deserves to die?

lol dutchman why is she releasing a book? whats her real motive? is to tell the world how women are not treated fair in Islam? hmmm maybe she is right maybe she is nt. but i do know for a fact that in some areas she is wrong.

example http://www.uae.gov.ae/Government/women.htm

just look at UAE and how women are working everywhere, even in the top places like ministers etc. So how can her book be telling the truth in this scenario??

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3667349.stm ok maybe in this case her book might be telling the truth. but do me and you know what really happened between these 2 saudi couple? no 1 knows but i am not denying it women being beaten up happens in Islam, but doesnt that happen in Christianity? what about Hindusim?

hmmm its a strange fact that this woman didnt write a book about dowry in the hindusim,when the bride’s family cannot pay up to the amount demanded by the in-laws. Often the in-laws make demands in excess of those made at the time of marriage. When the deadline specified runs out, the bride is burned in often gruesome fashions. At least 5000 women die each year for not bringing in enough dowry. At least a dozen women die each day in `kitchen fires,’ which are often passed off as accidents, because their in-laws are not satisfied with their dowries. Only a few of the murderers are brought to justice. Why didnt she write a book about them?

what about the women who suffer physically from their drunk husbands across europe and even in america???

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A963958260

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/2021/2 ... held_child lol the guy tries to kill his wife and he gets spared and yet you are more worried about women in ISLAM????? lol come on.

yeh i have a problem with this woman because whats the real motive behind her book? to tell the truth about islam? what about the truth in Hindusim? what about the domestic problems in the christianity?

her real motive is that she wants to get famous and to make money. thats her motive. i admit that in islam some women do not have rights and are treated badly. what about christianity? or even in Hindusim?

well if she wants to get famous and happens to die well she had it coming to her.

muslims are nice ppl even if you go to Osamas cave he will treat you properly and in a humble manner . yeh u r right there are some nutters in islam who go to extreme measures. but they have a story to tell as well. But arent there any extreme nutters in the christianity society? what the KKK??? what about the Hindu Extremists? what about the Jewish Extremists??

I luv my religion and for what it stands for. but i dont like it when some makes fun of my religion. yeh i can ignore and walk away but thats the sad fact we have been ignoring for 1000 years and we have let ppl get away with everything.

Dutchman have you ever seen over 1000 attend the friday prayers? have you ever wondered y these ppl stand in the sun praying to God? have you ever wondered? we pray to thank god for everything He has done for us. There are millions of muslims and they all luv Islam and some are nutters who will kill this woman. No not me because in Islam it teaches us not to kill anyone. yet there are some who will kill her Y? because they luv their religion to their death.

This woman knows the consequences of writing a book and she has it coming to her. Me personally dont like her Y? because honestly speaking she is just writing a book about islam to make some quick money.

tommorow if i decide to release 2 books. one about islam and one about christianity. which one will be a hit?

rudeboy wrote:
lol dutchman why is she releasing a book? whats her real motive? is to tell the world how women are not treated fair in Islam?

I donot know why she is releasing her book, may because she has an opinion (right or wrong), maybe she is lacking attention, maybe because she after the money.

rudeboy wrote:
but doesnt that happen in Christianity? what about Hindusim?

I am sure it does.

rudeboy wrote:
yet you are more worried about women in ISLAM?????

Where did you get the idea that I am worried about women in Islam?

rudeboy wrote:
But arent there any extreme nutters in the christianity society? what the KKK??? what about the Hindu Extremists? what about the Jewish Extremists??

Yes, there are

rudeboy wrote:
Dutchman have you ever seen over 1000 attend the friday prayers?

No

rudeboy wrote:
This woman knows the consequences of writing a book and she has itcoming to her.

So, I ask again, does that mean she deserves to die? A very simple question for which donot give a straight answer in your long reply

rudeboy wrote:
tommorow if i decide to release 2 books. one about islam and one about christianity. which one will be a hit?

Really I donot know, depends on the contents I think

dutchman no she doesnt deserve to die because she is a human being, a mother, a sister and a daugther. and i wouldnt like to see her killed but she has it coming to her.

yeh the book is her opinion. you want to tell me why Mein Kempf by Hitler is banned in many countries across the world? isnt that book opinion of someone just like this woman? yet it is banned? what happened to your freedom of speech now? its a book, an autobiography a book of opinions yet it is banned?

the truth is anything to do with islam let it be a cartoon or a book will be a MASSIVE hit in europe. and this woman is releasing a book about islam because all she wants is publicity, fame and money. for all these reasons, she deserves whats coming to her.

Y doesnt she write a book about Women in Hinduism? or Judasim or even Christianity??

rudeboy - do you ever think before you type?

just out of curiosity...

ebonics wrote:rudeboy - do you ever think before you type?

just out of curiosity...

nope just go with the flow baby y anything bothering you?? am i being to FREE thinker??? whats wrong you dont like the way i think? oh maybe i m not qualified as you to think like u do.

rudeboy wrote:nope

its clearly evident.

ebonics wrote:

rudeboy wrote:nope

its clearly evident.

is it bothering you?

not in the slightest, its quite amusing.



by the way - this lady that you say "has it coming" - knows so much because one day she was a muslim.... she just decided to question what she was brought up with.

ebonics wrote:not in the slightest, its quite amusing.



by the way - this lady that you say "has it coming" - knows so much because one day she was a muslim.... she just decided to question what she was brought up with.

ebonics i can give you examples of christians who questioned what they were brought up with and changed their religions to islam!!

Like I said there is no truth in her book. Maybe she really is a reformist or maybe she is just an opportunist.

"In an interview with the New York Times, Sultan claimed that in 1979, gunmen from the Muslim Brotherhood burst into a classroom at the university and killed her professor before her eyes. It was then that her disillusionment and anger with Islam started". lol tried to find some articles whether a shooting really did happen or not and guess what found nothing. maybe ebonics you could enlighten me and show me a article about a shooting in Syria in 1979 in the University.

anyways so maybe she has decided to release a book and mock islam because she is angry of what happened to her Professor?? Maybe she is releasing this book in act of revenge?? Or maybe how she migrated from Syria to USA to have better living and yet they still lived in poverty. and she decided hey i ll sell my soul and i ll release a book and become a millionaire over night. hmmm if you living in poverty cant pay the rent have to feed your 2 lil children obviously you would do this.

oh wait the jews are after all this, they decided to use wafa offer her some money and guess what I have found. oh looky here its a story by a BRITISH newspaper. http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/jou ... 58,00.html

hmmm you must be thinking whats MEMRI got to do with wafa. lol y dont you do some research and see what you can come up with.

rudeboy wrote:
Like I said there is no truth in her book. Maybe she really is a reformist or maybe she is just an opportunist.

personal opinion, i find her opinions 100% accurate.

lol tried to find some articles whether a shooting really did happen or not and guess what found nothing. maybe ebonics you could enlighten me and show me a article about a shooting in Syria in 1979 in the University.

good luck finding a local news archive from syria dated that far back... i could have told you you wont find anything about it, thats trivial information.... look at the date, think when the internet became mainstream, think of the size of the incident - hardly international news... for the love of god dust the cobwebs off your brain and use it for once.

oh wait the jews are after all this, they decided to use wafa offer her some money and guess what I have found. oh looky here its a story by a BRITISH newspaper. http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/jou ... 58,00.html

hmmm you must be thinking whats MEMRI got to do with wafa. lol y dont you do some research and see what you can come up with.

the jews also made colonel sanders to take your money and make you pile up the pounds. the jews also own pepsi, pepsi stands for "Pay Every Penny to Save Isreal" think of how many pepsi cans you drank all your life, now go throw them all up..


memri help publicise her interviews, because its what they do translate and publicise.... the jews obviously have alterior motives in making islam not seem so nice, but at the end of the day, the woman speaks the truth - memri got involved with her well after the first book was published... so there goes your genius theory.

[quote="ebonics"]not in the slightest, its quite amusing.
quote]

am happy to know that a muslim can make a non-muslim laugh even though you see us ALL muslims as terroists, extremists and murderers

ebonics wrote:

rudeboy wrote:
Like I said there is no truth in her book. Maybe she really is a reformist or maybe she is just an opportunist.

personal opinion, i find her opinions 100% accurate.

lol tried to find some articles whether a shooting really did happen or not and guess what found nothing. maybe ebonics you could enlighten me and show me a article about a shooting in Syria in 1979 in the University.

good luck finding a local news archive from syria dated that far back... i could have told you you wont find anything about it, thats trivial information.... look at the date, think when the internet became mainstream, think of the size of the incident - hardly international news... for the love of god dust the cobwebs off your brain and use it for once.

oh wait the jews are after all this, they decided to use wafa offer her some money and guess what I have found. oh looky here its a story by a BRITISH newspaper. http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/jou ... 58,00.html

hmmm you must be thinking whats MEMRI got to do with wafa. lol y dont you do some research and see what you can come up with.

the jews also made colonel sanders to take your money and make you pile up the pounds. the jews also own pepsi, pepsi stands for "Pay Every Penny to Save Isreal" think of how many pepsi cans you drank all your life, now go throw them all up..


memri help publicise her interviews, because its what they do translate and publicise.... the jews obviously have alterior motives in making islam not seem so nice, but at the end of the day, the woman speaks the truth - memri got involved with her well after the first book was published... so there goes your genius theory.

lol ebonics i dont drink pepsi

in my opinion her book doesnt tell the truth and maybe you would like to visit my mum and my sis. how about you look around you at the women working in UAE? hmmm oh wait you dont want to because you already have an image of islam so y should you look around lol.

memri is not an independant company. it is biased and would appreciate if you can prove to me that they are not biased but all they do is potrey the truth nothing but the truth. ENLIGHTEN ME BABY!!!!!

memri is not an independant company. it is unbiased and would appreciate if you can prove to me that they are not unbiased but all they do is potrey the truth nothing but the truth, ENLIGHTEN ME BABY

before you become condacending.. enllighten yourself with what i said, and tell me where exactly did i say that memri is an independant unbiased company...

i specifically said that the jews that own memri are backing her up for a reason.

my fiance wouldnt appreciate me looking at any of your women

ebonics wrote:

memri is not an independant company. it is unbiased and would appreciate if you can prove to me that they are not unbiased but all they do is potrey the truth nothing but the truth, ENLIGHTEN ME BABY

before you become condacending.. enllighten yourself with what i said, and tell me where exactly did i say that memri is an independant unbiased company...

i specifically said that the jews that own memri are backing her up for a reason.

my fiance wouldnt appreciate me looking at any of your women

oh looky here atleast you admit that MEMRI is owned by the jews and they are backing her up for a reason. cool atleast something we agree on.

you want to tell me what the reason there might be for MEMRI backing her? how about you visit http://www.memri.org/ and see how there is so much "propoganda" against the muslims. how the word jihad, extremists and kill pop up. How come there is nothing mentioning anything GOOD about islam on that website? hmmmm strange is not it. They say that they are bridging the gap between the middle east and the west when Israel and some jew doesnt represent the middle east ppl.

and hey how can we forget a report in the guardian http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/au ... anwhitaker which backs what i m saying.

so is this woman really a reformist? no is she really telling the truth about women in Islam? no the answer is around you where here alone in UAE women are working in top jobs and earn as much as the men do. yes i agree in some countries like saudi women dont have basic rights but we can pop over to India where women are treated like slaves. how about in england where wifes are beaten up by their drunk husbands.

so whats the real motive behind wafa? money? probably! could someone be backing her to write a book? probably and they could have their own motives.

I know ebonics you will say this is bull$hit but the truth is I dont know nor do you know what is really happening. maybe you are right maybe I am right about the whole thing. god knows. but all i know is that the earth is on a verge of clash of civilizations. East Vs West and this can be seen in our disagreement on a silly topic like wafa sultan. Ebonics you support her just like SCY whereas there are ppl who will question wafa sultans real motives like me and probably there are many more.