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I considered something today which made me re-think a little on my opinions placed on this here forum. I was on the train this morning reading a news story about the recent trial of a top Khmer Army colonel who was part of the orchestration of the Cambodian killing fields.

Throughout History there has been numerous times up to the present where lots of blood has been shed under the banner of Religion, but there has also been just as much (maybe even more) under governance where Religion has been practically banned (Communist States) - so to summarize in a simple manner, bad people are going to do bad things no matter what sort of state is in place be it religious / communist or democratic and to what religion they do or do not personally align with.

So as long as its not a personal attack / critic on my own beliefs or life, I need to live and let live and turn the other cheek when someones views of their reason for existence differs to mine.

Warm Regards,
JJ

"guns dont kill people, people kill people"


many deaths under the banner of religion go on everyday - in every religion.

but only one religion comes to mind that specifically uses the word "fight" and "kill" when dealing with none believers..

ebonics wrote:
but only one religion comes to mind that specifically uses the word "fight" and "kill" when dealing with none believers..

Wow, I didn't expect you to condemn the Bible in this way - or some of the other verses (this only talks about the killing of boys and married women, and sparing the virgins):
Was it this verse you were thinking of:

"Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. (From the NIV Bible, Numbers 31:17-18)"

Jabba - I agree with you. I've argued that historically killings have occured in the name of religion, but more so in the name of nationalism and pure greed/ search of power. The 20th century saw the worst mass killings in history - and none the big ones had anything to do with religion (look at the World Wars, the genocides in Asia - china in particular - Africa etc - also the historic genocides in South America, Australia and Asia in the name 'colonialism' - these are the worst crimes).

Religion is misused - and all religions fare badly in that they have their extremes - even Buddhism is not exempt. Apartheid was justified using the bible for instance!

Live and let live is a good principle to live by.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Religion is misused - and all religions fare badly in that they have their extremes - even Buddhism is not exempt. Apartheid was justified using the bible for instance!
Live and let live is a good principle to live by.

Yeah, I second to that and hoping more people will come to think of this principle.

shafique wrote:

ebonics wrote:
but only one religion comes to mind that specifically uses the word "fight" and "kill" when dealing with none believers..

Wow, I didn't expect you to condemn the Bible in this way - or some of the other verses (this only talks about the killing of boys and married women, and sparing the virgins):
Was it this verse you were thinking of:

"Now kill all the boys. And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man. (From the NIV Bible, Numbers 31:17-18)"

its like groundhog day when it comes to you shafique... do i really need to highlight the words "dealing with none believers?" - when did christianity (new testament) teach anyone to kill none believers? - please quote.

this is what im talking about

shafique wrote:

ebonics wrote:success...........


Sura 9 verse 29

[29] Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the Religion of Truth, from among the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

Yes, this is from the Quran. This is 100% in accordance with my previous post. What part of this verse do you think is not?

where i said "fight" in arabic was worded KATELOO - derived from the word KATL, which means KILL



im sure groundhog day will strike again, and ill have to repeat myself over and over..

hypothetical

if your god, was the same as the god i believe in, being "the creator" - is the same god that wrote the quran...... he would not order people to "kill by the way of fighting"


also

Quran 5:33

"The just retribution for those who fight Allah and His messenger, and commit horrendous crimes, is to be killed, or crucified, or to have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or to be banished from the land. This is to humiliate them in this life, then they suffer a far worse retribution in the Hereafter."


again, my god would not allow that.

according to that, i should be killed, crucified, have my hands and feet cut off - is it not?

i should be "banished from the land and humilated in this life" - simply because i dont believe in what that specific book is saying....... right.

I guess this is what jabbajabba was talking about.

So as long as its not a personal attack / critic on my own beliefs or life, I need to live and let live and turn the other cheek when someones views of their reason for existence differs to mine

reviewer wrote:

shafique wrote:Religion is misused - and all religions fare badly in that they have their extremes - even Buddhism is not exempt. Apartheid was justified using the bible for instance!
Live and let live is a good principle to live by.

Yeah, I second to that and hoping more people will come to think of this principle.

That's why I still stand by my view that the only good religion is no religion.

spoonman wrote::lol: I guess this is what jabbajabba was talking about.

So as long as its not a personal attack / critic on my own beliefs or life, I need to live and let live and turn the other cheek when someones views of their reason for existence differs to mine

"The just retribution for those who fight Allah and His messenger, and commit horrendous crimes, is to be killed, or crucified, or to have their hands and feet cut off on alternate sides, or to be banished from the land. This is to humiliate them in this life, then they suffer a far worse retribution in the Hereafter."

not enough attack/critique to own personal beliefs for you? it is for me! according to this, jabba, myself and chocoholic should be shaking in our boots, living in constant fear and tremble, humiliated and banished from "the land"....

Take a chill pill ebonics, the Bible is one of the most violent pieces of literature in existence - even advocating what will be considered a war crime today (killing of all inhabitants and also the animals). However, I don't consider all Christians as war-mongers or that Christianity is a violent religion in itself.

Your views on Islam are clear, so I won't try and reason with you (but I'll give you the quotes you requested) - and in respect of the previous quote you are definitely in danger if you consider that you have 'committed horrendous crimes' and are fighting and killing Muslims.

But I'm surprised that you think Chocs and Jabba are similarly killing muslims and committing horrendous crimes.



Cheers,
Shafique

Edit - so as to not 'hijack' Jabba's thread, I have started a new thread with the Biblical quotes requested by ebonics.

shafique wrote::lol:

Take a chill pill ebonics, the Bible is one of the most violent pieces of literature in existence - even advocating what will be considered a war crime today (killing of all inhabitants and also the animals). However, I don't consider all Christians as war-mongers or that Christianity is a violent religion in itself.

im quoting that for the sake of funny quotes.


and adding my own emoticon =>>


again its becoming like groundhog day, this is the 2nd time you tell me to take a chill pill, the first time was when you got pinned down with no valid answer to my claim. i see a trend here.

ebonics wrote:again its becoming like groundhog day, this is the 2nd time you tell me to take a chill pill, the first time was when you got pinned down with no valid answer to my claim. i see a trend here.

I started a thread - if that is 'no answer' what would be an answer?

Anyway, for those who haven't gone to the other thread ebonics has conceded that the Bible does contain verses advocating the killings of non-believers, women and children and livestock etc. These are in the Old Testament - therefore Judaism is more violent than Islam (and the Christians believe that these 'old' words of God can now not be followed).



Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:

ebonics wrote:again its becoming like groundhog day, this is the 2nd time you tell me to take a chill pill, the first time was when you got pinned down with no valid answer to my claim. i see a trend here.

I started a thread - if that is 'no answer' what would be an answer?

you gave me no answer regarding killing, crucifying, banishing from land, humiliating, cutting both hands and feet ?


is that why all the danish cartoon artists are sweating over the thought of their hands and feet meeting a blade?

im moving this to the other thread.

ebonics wrote:
you gave me no answer regarding killing, crucifying, banishing from land, humiliating, cutting both hands and feet ?

The Quranic quote speaks for itself - you quoted it and can read the original arabic.

I could not see in your post where it said that all non-Muslims should be crucified. It lists a series of punishments from banishment to death for those who have committed horrendous crimes.

You seem to have a problem with taxation and now a problem with punishing criminals. Why is that?

Cheers,
Shafique

The just retribution for those who fight Allah and His messenger

this has nothing to do with crime, this is religious conflict, those who are against allah, and his prophet.

ebonics wrote:

The just retribution for those who fight Allah and His messenger

this has nothing to do with crime, this is religious conflict, those who are against allah, and his prophet.

What does your dictionary say under the word 'fight'?

Cheers,
Shafique

lol ebonics whats ur problem mate??? were u in the army or something fighting the taliban and they blew up ur leg or something??

y is that muslims never bash a religion and we are always defending ourselfs???

lol why the hell dont we bash other religions?? lol am bloooody fed up with this.

gonna start a christianity, judasim and hinduism bashing soon. shaf can u help me