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according to some folk, the planet crosses our solar system through its independant orbit every 3600 or so years, causing the earth's poles to shift...

while this is in line with chinese & mayan predictions, and some scientists arguments, i cant help to wonder what happened last time this happened? how did humans survive? how did everything else survive? - so many answers were posed including humans going underground... which i find laughable.

meet some hippies and they will tell you that money will become no matter of importance in 2012 as the planet becomes visible in our skies in april, and earth's climate becomes cataclysmic.... 90% of humans will be struggling to live - and only in the refuge of earth's highest hills will true peace be found. dont know whos teaching them these things - but its rather interesting to listen to.

the guy i met maintains that humans will drop all capitalistic ideals and embrace spirituality from that point onwards and in the event of survival of december 2012 - life will never be the same for humans again, as they will be so much more in touch with other humans as spirits, rather than a physical approach..... again - rather interesting to listen to and take in.

if this happens every 3600 years - where does darwinism tie in with with this? all questions that im currently researching with not much luck since everyone seems to be so rock solid on their ideals - and no specific data that could be considered credible.

i dont know if this planet even exists? the origins of that goes back to the samarians - they know this planet exists - and it contains a higher-race called the Anunnanki... and this is the explaination of so many things... according to that theory, humans are an anunnaki social experiment (gasp!!!!!) - we are the offspring of their genetically modified stem cells, their test tube - and that was the missing link between primates and humans. at this point in time this gets way too much for me - and i usually keep an open mind to these things.. as much as i do believe that humans arent alone in this infinate universe, a claim of another race cultivating earth as a social experiment for their own benifit just sounds far too rediculous...

however in favour, the mayans seems to have known about this planet, and they were what i consider the most advanced when it comes to astrology - the predicted 2012 as the most profound date in earth's history in line with the conclusion of their calandar..

id be interested to hear if anyone has heard or reserached anything regarding this - and please do keep religion out of this - keep this topic factual and scientific..

ebonics wrote:according to some folk, the planet crosses our solar system through its independant orbit every 3600 or so years, causing the earth's poles to shift...

while this is in line with chinese & mayan predictions, and some scientists arguments, i cant help to wonder what happened last time this happened? how did humans survive? how did everything else survive? - so many answers were posed including humans going underground... which i find laughable.

meet some hippies and they will tell you that money will become no matter of importance in 2012 as the planet becomes visible in our skies in april, and earth's climate becomes cataclysmic.... 90% of humans will be struggling to live - and only in the refuge of earth's highest hills will true peace be found. dont know whos teaching them these things - but its rather interesting to listen to.

the guy i met maintains that humans will drop all capitalistic ideals and embrace spirituality from that point onwards and in the event of survival of december 2012 - life will never be the same for humans again, as they will be so much more in touch with other humans as spirits, rather than a physical approach..... again - rather interesting to listen to and take in.

if this happens every 3600 years - where does darwinism tie in with with this? all questions that im currently researching with not much luck since everyone seems to be so rock solid on their ideals - and no specific data that could be considered credible.

i dont know if this planet even exists? the origins of that goes back to the samarians - they know this planet exists - and it contains a higher-race called the Anunnanki... and this is the explaination of so many things... according to that theory, humans are an anunnaki social experiment (gasp!!!!!) - we are the offspring of their genetically modified stem cells, their test tube - and that was the missing link between primates and humans. at this point in time this gets way too much for me - and i usually keep an open mind to these things.. as much as i do believe that humans arent alone in this infinate universe, a claim of another race cultivating earth as a social experiment for their own benifit just sounds far too rediculous...

however in favour, the mayans seems to have known about this planet, and they were what i consider the most advanced when it comes to astrology - the predicted 2012 as the most profound date in earth's history in line with the conclusion of their calandar..

id be interested to hear if anyone has heard or reserached anything regarding this - and please do keep religion out of this - keep this topic factual and scientific..

hmmm sorry i know u said keep religion out of this but in the quran there is a mention of alien forms and even et life on distance planets. obviously non of the muslim countries have the power or the capabilities of sending rockets to distant universe for proof of this, if they did they would be accused of building weapons of mass distruction .

and those who are able to carry out scientific research about this have probably already know the truth but they keeping the lid on the whole thing because they dont want the world to know that the Quran was right all along. hmmmm area 51 springs to my mind .

My knowledge of cosmology comes from the books of Stephen Hawkins (and perhaps a bit from Bill Bryson's book on the history of everything).

I've not heard of planet X, but have heard of the X-files (are they related??)

By definition, a planet is a celestial body that circles a sun - and our sun only has 8 planets (now that Pluto has been de-classified), and I don't think any of them are called 'X'.

I'm assuming that ebonics knows the difference between 'astrology' (which he says the Mayans were the most advanced' and 'astronomy' which is the study of the 'heavens'.

To my knowledge the current day astronomers know more about astronomy than any civilisation before. So I await a reference from an astronomical body for this planet X thing and hope that it's not a you-tube link.

I have heard of theories that an asteroid may hit the earth in the future and a number of such bodies are predicted to come close to the earth (remember Shoemaker?) - but really can't lose any sleep over this as there are better things to worry about such as human interaction with the environment and each other (over which we DO have some control).

However, given the rubbish (in my mind) about the 2012 planet hollywood story of anakin skywalker coming to earth, let me make a prediction. I will be laughing at ebonic in 2012 when nothing of the sort happens (who knows, the London Olympics may have turned out to be a success that year..)


Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:(and perhaps a bit from Bill Bryson's book on the history of everything).

excellant book.

on further research, supporters of this planet x theory tie in with the supporters of the nemisis theory - which says there's another failed sun in our solar system, very hard to detect because its now a cold body - undetectable as a heat emitting object.

this planet revolves in an ellipse around that - and is a huge force on the outer larger planets - this then goes to claim that this planet collided with a planet that once existed where the astroid belt now exists - creating that astroid belt..


this planet has too many supporting and debunking theories, its hard for me to make my mind about it, but according to the "pro" point of view, it will be visible to us early on in 2012 in the southern hemisphere - so ill reserve what i believe till then.

I'm assuming that ebonics knows the difference between 'astrology' (which he says the Mayans were the most advanced' and 'astronomy' which is the study of the 'heavens'.

yes, i do, but i also believe that the mayans mapped all astrological phenomenon from eclipses to other more complex phenomenon to this date accurately on their astronomy model, their calandar.



but back to this rogue planet, the guy that seems to document it extensivly is Zecharia Sitchin, in his 13 or 14 books that he published, but he takes a very radical approach - the whole we are a test tube of higher beings approach.

im going to give a book of his a read and see how i feel about it once concluded.

ebonics wrote: there's another failed sun in our solar system,

ebonics - are you a scientologist?

shafique wrote:ebonics - are you a scientologist?

damn now you know im tom cruise.

Flying Dutchman wrote:

ebonics wrote: there's another failed sun in our solar system,

do not quote me out of context - i said the supporters of the theory seem to think - in no way do i believe so myself.

Interesting read ebonics - I have read a little on planet x - but the jury is still very much out for myself and NASA say its nonsense, but I am sure there is conspiracy theory out there to answer it.

Now when it comes to the Mayans I personally found that fascinating. The Mayan calender which has only really become understood over the past ten years is quite an eye opener at the least, aside to believable or not, which I am sure will bring many different opinions.

The Mayans had two main calenders, the short count which was for agricultural use (much like the Gregorian calender) and is based on following the suns axis and then there is the long count. The long count spans over 65 million years (if I recall correctly) and is the same figure that the earth is said to have existed which was found to be true but scientists fairly recently. The calender itself has a pyramid structure where the first base is 64 million, then 32 million, the next 16 and then 8 etc until it increments to 8 thousand years, 4 thousand years, 2 thousand,1 thousand, 500, 250, 125, 62.5 31.25 - this then meets it end down to weeks, days, minutes on December the 12th 2012.

* note the above may be incorrect, just going off my poor memory, so better to Google it yourself.

The calender is believed to be a measure of the conscience and evolution of life by some historians who researched the Mayans (dutch guy whose name I can't recall) - and each section or ledge coincides with major evolutionary and historical events such as the amphibious crawling from the sea to the land, apes gaining opposable thumbs to the birth of the Abrahamic faiths to present events such as wars and technology.

If you look at the past 100 years you do see everything to start speed up on a logarithmic scale whether it be related or not. For instance take someone from 70 years ago and put them in a modern car doing 120 km along a freeway and they will believe you must be from out of space. Take a mathematician from 30 years ago and show him a 7 year old operating a Centrino Dual Core laptop with 4GB of ram - when he was used to working with a series of electronic binary switches and hole punch cards. Then look at the past ten years and how the internet has taken hold and the rate at which information is shared.

So 2012 is said to be the date when a massive shift will occur for Mankind on a spiritual level - power as we understand it will become liability and hurting another would be beyond bearable for anyone so it says.

Here is vid if anyone is interested;

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?doc ... &plindex=0

The guy that made it died last year - so he won't be there, which is kind of ironic, rest his soul.

It seems a bit cheesy at first, but is an interesting way to pass an hour.

thanks for the link - i have read several books about the calandar - and it is in fact very fascinating... personally i dont think of 2012 as a doomsday date - but rather a culmination of spirituality - a date that will change what we know and we will gain a lot more wisdom in the spirtuality department - due to a time of hardship that humanity will go through, realising that people have became de-synthetized of their humanity in recent years..

time will tell.

Was just reading a bit more - there is thought that this coincides with the next coming messiah predicted in abrahamic faiths, but the key difference being not a prophet returning but ultimate union i.e. no god or man or woman or animal but a collective conscious whole - no separation or self - but prior to that comes a breakdown where we are backed into a corner which accelerates the process, just as you communicated.

I will go and light some jos sticks now......

wow that lecture was actually amazing.... explains life so well the way i see it, i never seen it get explained that well... thanks heaps!!

shafique - if u want to learn about my beliefs, i unfortunatly cannot break it down like this guy can, its 2 hours long but well well worth it. my view on religion is clearly manifested at the end of the video where he gets into the injection of good and evil in the conciousness of man..

ebonics - sounds interesting, I will try and find time to watch the lecture and will give you my comments at the end.

I am a big fan of understanding the philosophy of religion, and one of my favourite books is 'Philosophy of the Teachings of Islam' by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian. It is available on the web, but may be blocked by etisalat.

Cheers,
Shafique

frankly i have had it with etisalat's blocks.

into part 2 - the third hour gets into the relation between the mind and concious intuition... very important point that gets ridiculed by most.

ties into the concept of "the secret" but on a realistic level where the secret was a bunch of crap imo - what you pay attention to is what you are concious of, and conciousness is independant of your mind.

conciousness of creation was always on my mind - maybe not on such a deep level - but my relation with natural elements around me has been growing in recent years through my (sometimes psychoactive) experiences with nature especially in australia - something im really missing out on here being in a complete concrete jungle 24/7...


jabba did you get into the 2nd part yet?

rudeboy wrote:

ebonics wrote:according to some folk, the planet crosses our solar system through its independant orbit every 3600 or so years, causing the earth's poles to shift...

while this is in line with chinese & mayan predictions, and some scientists arguments, i cant help to wonder what happened last time this happened? how did humans survive? how did everything else survive? - so many answers were posed including humans going underground... which i find laughable.

meet some hippies and they will tell you that money will become no matter of importance in 2012 as the planet becomes visible in our skies in april, and earth's climate becomes cataclysmic.... 90% of humans will be struggling to live - and only in the refuge of earth's highest hills will true peace be found. dont know whos teaching them these things - but its rather interesting to listen to.

the guy i met maintains that humans will drop all capitalistic ideals and embrace spirituality from that point onwards and in the event of survival of december 2012 - life will never be the same for humans again, as they will be so much more in touch with other humans as spirits, rather than a physical approach..... again - rather interesting to listen to and take in.

if this happens every 3600 years - where does darwinism tie in with with this? all questions that im currently researching with not much luck since everyone seems to be so rock solid on their ideals - and no specific data that could be considered credible.

i dont know if this planet even exists? the origins of that goes back to the samarians - they know this planet exists - and it contains a higher-race called the Anunnanki... and this is the explaination of so many things... according to that theory, humans are an anunnaki social experiment (gasp!!!!!) - we are the offspring of their genetically modified stem cells, their test tube - and that was the missing link between primates and humans. at this point in time this gets way too much for me - and i usually keep an open mind to these things.. as much as i do believe that humans arent alone in this infinate universe, a claim of another race cultivating earth as a social experiment for their own benifit just sounds far too rediculous...

however in favour, the mayans seems to have known about this planet, and they were what i consider the most advanced when it comes to astrology - the predicted 2012 as the most profound date in earth's history in line with the conclusion of their calandar..

id be interested to hear if anyone has heard or reserached anything regarding this - and please do keep religion out of this - keep this topic factual and scientific..

hmmm sorry i know u said keep religion out of this but in the quran there is a mention of alien forms and even et life on distance planets. obviously non of the muslim countries have the power or the capabilities of sending rockets to distant universe for proof of this, if they did they would be accused of building weapons of mass distruction .

and those who are able to carry out scientific research about this have probably already know the truth but they keeping the lid on the whole thing because they dont want the world to know that the Quran was right all along. hmmmm area 51 springs to my mind .

i never got around to this comment of yours - but this is news to me, please provide verses..

the nephilim were mentioned in genesis 6 - and have said to pro-create with humans... seems that whoever these nephilim were, and the whole idea of the annunaki seems to be one & the same.

ebonics wrote:into part 2 - the third hour gets into the relation between the mind and concious intuition... very important point that gets ridiculed by most.

ties into the concept of "the secret" but on a realistic level where the secret was a bunch of crap imo - what you pay attention to is what you are concious of, and conciousness is independant of your mind.

conciousness of creation was always on my mind - maybe not on such a deep level - but my relation with natural elements around me has been growing in recent years through my (sometimes psychoactive) experiences with nature especially in australia - something im really missing out on here being in a complete concrete jungle 24/7...


jabba did you get into the 2nd part yet?

It was a while ago that I watched it so I will try and watch again for a refresher,

I hear what you are saying in your third paragraph as I have been awe struck by the intelligence and interconnected'ness of it all a few times as well.

Have you ever tried DMT? (Don't really expect you to answer this living in the UAE ) I am not into taking any old drugs nowadays and lead a clean life, but I would really be interested in DMT under controlled circumstances.

Josh Rogan (comedian more then philosopher) speaks about his DMT shamanic experience;



Crazy thing about DMT is it opens up a gland at the base of the brain, which is what happens everynight that we pass into deep REM sleep (i.e. we trip out in dream land).

I often ponder which one is more real? Waking life or Dream state - The answer seems obvious at first but deep analysis shows its impossible to answer (for example staying asleep won't kill you, no sleep and you will go mad and die).

i havent - but i have friends that have.

personal advice - do not jump into something like DMT without years upon years of intelligent natural occuring psychadlics (i dont consider LSD to be intelligent or natural) - im still about 10 years away from even considering DMT

ebonics wrote:personal advice - do not jump into something like DMT without years upon years of intelligent natural occuring psychadlics (i dont consider LSD to be intelligent or natural) - im still about 10 years away from even considering DMT

So what do u mean by natural occuring psychedelics?

spoonman wrote:

ebonics wrote:personal advice - do not jump into something like DMT without years upon years of intelligent natural occuring psychadlics (i dont consider LSD to be intelligent or natural) - im still about 10 years away from even considering DMT

So what do u mean by natural occuring psychedelics?

Probably magic mushrooms and similar 'herbs'.

Cheers,
Shafique

yea, I thought psychedelics were all chemical. Didn't remember Peyote and Shrooms.

I always wanted to try peyote. gonna meet a shamanic friend in summer (guess he'll be in Yugoslavia). If I couldn't find him I have to ask the next DJ who comes here to bring me some

psychadlic strands occur in more plants around you than you think - from the simple fern right down to the the obvious mushroom...

for the full list see erowid's vault - there's a rather comprehensive botanical list on wikipedia as well... doubt anything would grow naturally locally, and from experience, natural's got a complete different makeup to hydro... two complete different things..

the main thing is to remember, psychadelics are not a recreational substance, and should be respected the way the ancients respected them.... there's nothing "fun" about them - its a very serious semi religious experience.

I wasn't joking. I really like to experience it and I will. to be honest I met a lot of shamans and I know a bit about the shamanism, Mysticism or east asian spritualism but it's not my thing. all of them amazes me but doesn't work for me.

Interesting link for you guys;

http://cottonwoodresearch.org/