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you're speaking the truth


but im not making this up either...

for the 5th time now.


Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
Ministry of Islamic Affairs, Endowments, Da‘wah and Guidance


this is the primary source of all islamic teachings of anyone, world wide..


so while your logic does make sense - why is this quoted on their website?

according to the primary source of islamic teachings - it is ok.... you can do that, and you will not be committing sin.

ebonics wrote:
Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
Ministry of Islamic Affairs, Endowments, Da‘wah and Guidance

this is the primary source of all islamic teachings of anyone, world wide..

I think you need to check your facts.

Cheers,
Shafique

in the same vein of scandalous occurings.

again, i could make a thread dedicated to this, but i will respect airing out dirty laundry and keep it confined here - it will go past with less attention that way.


this was the incident that got me into all this in the first place... it was possibly one of the highlights of my life in regards to one of the funniest, blatently retarded things i could have ever came across...


lets rewind back time,

may 28 2007

from wikinews - not to be confused with wikipedia, this is a news archive.

wikinews wrote:May 28, 2007

An Islamic cleric named Ezzat Atiya issued a fatwa to get around gender segregation and hijab in Islam. He stated that symbolic breastfeeding could be used to make it permissible for male and female colleagues to work together alone.

Dr. Atiyah had stated that the breastfeeding does not have to be by the woman herself. "[This can also be achieved] by means of the man's mother or sister suckling the woman, or by means of the woman's mother or sister suckling the man" he wrote.

Atiya works at the Al-Azhar Univeristy, an Islamic seminary in Egypt. The seminary was established by a Shia caliphate and is named after Fatima Al-Zahra. Zahra was the wife of Ali. Al-Azhar University has a fatwa that officially sanctioned martyrdom operation with one condition only: martyrdom operations are only allowed in Israel. The university has had this ruling for a long time and has stood by it.

Atiyah had said,

“ A woman at work can take off the veil or reveal her hair in front of someone whom she breastfed. ”

According to Ayatollah Mesbah Yazdi, "If someone tells you he has a new interpretation of Islam, sock him in the mouth."

something that caused the azhar to suspend the cleric in question...

more news reports of the incident

http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=IA35507

excerpt from that if you are too lazy to read the whole thing - you tend to get lazier and lazier on me shafique, its starting to really get to me.

He said: "The religious ruling that appears in the Prophet's conduct [Sunna] confirms that breastfeeding allows a man and a woman to be together in private, even if they are not family and if the woman did not nurse the man in his infancy, before he was weaned - providing that their being together serves some purpose, religious or secular...

"Being together in private means being in a room with the door closed, so that nobody can see them... A man and a woman who are not family members are not permitted [to do this], because it raises suspicions and doubts. A man and a woman who are alone together are not [necessarily] having sex, but this possibility exists, and breastfeeding provides a solution to this problem... I also insist that the breastfeeding relationship be officially documented in writing... The contract will state that this woman has suckled this man... After this, the woman may remove her hijab and expose her hair in the man's [presence]...

"The adult must suckle directly from the [woman's] breast... [This according to a hadith attributed to Aisha, wife of the Prophet's Muhammad], which tells of Salem [the adopted son of Abu Hudheifa] who was breastfed by Abu-Hudheifa's wife when he was already a grown man with a beard, by the Prophet's order... Other methods, such as [transferring] the milk to a container, are [less desirable]...

Muslim Brotherhood MPs: This is an Erroneous Fatwa


The issue of breastfeeding adults was brought up for debate in the Egyptian parliament. Sabri Khalaf Allah from Muslim Brotherhood bloc in the parliament told the Al-Arabiyya TV website that some 50 MPs had discussed the issue, had expressed concern over the fact that the fatwa had been published in the media, but had refrained from submitting a parliamentary question in order to avoid creating too big an uproar.

Dr. Sayyid Askar, a Muslim Brotherhood MP and former member of the Academy of Islamic Studies, said that the hadith on which the fatwa is based is indeed authentic and valid, but that the accepted view among Muslim scholars is that it refers to a specific case and cannot be applied to other cases. Therefore, he concluded, Dr. Attiya's fatwa is an erroneous fatwa that goes against the consensus. "In our modern society," he added, "it makes no sense to talk of breastfeeding adults." [6]

Intellectuals Object: The Koran Forbids the Breastfeeding of Adults

other reports of the story

http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews ... edType=RSS
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6681511.stm






now the question is - if it was indeed a valid and authentic hadith.......... islam teaches you to mirror muhammad's life and live by his teachings, how is this then, an exception?

if you've got any doubt that this is authentic


again

here is the link for you to verify yourself
(in arabic)


http://hadith.al-islam.com/Display/Disp ... 1&Rec=3378

shafique wrote:

ebonics wrote:
Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
Ministry of Islamic Affairs, Endowments, Da‘wah and Guidance

this is the primary source of all islamic teachings of anyone, world wide..

I think you need to check your facts.

Cheers,
Shafique

are you being serious here???


where did islam come from?

where did the qur'an originate?

who were the first proper arabic speakers?

this is a government, 100% authentic, primary source of informationfor all muslims and none muslims world wide....

i dont need to check my facts shafique - this is as rock solid as it comes.


till then think all you want.

i would also like to highlight

Al-Azhar University has a fatwa that officially sanctioned martyrdom operation with one condition only: martyrdom operations are only allowed in Israel. The university has had this ruling for a long time and has stood by it.



i dont know how credible this is... this is off wikinews, but some light shed on that would be nice.

ebonics, take a chill pill man.

hahahaha

chill as chill can be brother..



you got some homework to do shafique..... if this news went past your radar un-detected.. it blew up other people's life...

this caused thousands to question their faith - and the authenticity of their religion... isnt that the topic at hand?


anyway, i am most definatly- done here, till you do your homework and find out what exactly did muhammad mean, when he told his wife to breast feed someone else - so he can co-exist with her in private.

PS - see what happens when you ignore my youtubes shafique? i tried to conceal all this and let youtube do the talking..


PPS - through more research i just learnt that wahabi's actually practice breastfeeding to adults

ebonics - congratulations, for once I am speechless.

im not sure if you're being sarcastic or not shafique..
if you're not - i hope this experience will enable you to think, rather than get told.



if you are please tell me so i can list you another 50 odd examples i looked up

ebonics - I think I understand your frustrations.

I saw a documentary recently about the Copt ghettos in Cairo. It showed how the Coptic community made their living predominantly by collecting, sorting and recycling the rubbish. It showed how by keeping pigs the communities became solely Christian neighbourhoods. It was reminiscent of the similar communities in the main Indian cities.

As historically the numbers of Copts have decreased with conversions to Islam over the centuries, those sticking with the faith of their forefathers have become more and more introspective and developed the hatred for muslims and Islam that has manifested in your posts.

It must be even more galling for Copts when young people like you turn their backs on religion altogether.

Cheers,
Shafique

im quoting this, just so its documented - in case you edit it later

shafique wrote:ebonics - I think I understand your frustrations.

I saw a documentary recently about the Copt ghettos in Cairo. It showed how the Coptic community made their living predominantly by collecting, sorting and recycling the rubbish. It showed how by keeping pigs the communities became solely Christian neighbourhoods. It was reminiscent of the similar communities in the main Indian cities.

As historically the numbers of Copts have decreased with conversions to Islam over the centuries, those sticking with the faith of their forefathers have become more and more introspective and developed the hatred for muslims and Islam that has manifested in your posts.

It must be even more galling for Copts when young people like you turn their backs on religion altogether.

Cheers,
Shafique

LOL!!!!!


so is religion directly proportional to wealth these days? how very genius of you. yes you hit that nail on the head and understood my frustrations.

some people in egypt are what you call "under the poverty line" they're not in poverty, they're even under that..

that line knows no religion shafique there is a small amount of christians in egypt, and there are far more muslims under that line, way under that line..... must be another 1 sided account, like all your 1 sided accounts..

because muslims in parts of india, indonesia, pakistan and afghanistan are doing a lot better..... and the thousands of people in ghaza that attacked egyptian borders seeking refuge were doing much better, have you not seen news footage? thankfully the government got something right for once and turned them back where they belong.




i hate to say this - that last post made me completely re-evaluate your intelligence, and your logic... you made yourself no justice!

you must be really clutching on straws now

Ebonics

thanks for your pm. Please confine the discussion in this thead to its title. Other posters have been very patient and polite to you, please accept this.

You are more than welcome to open a new thread if you like, if you want me to split this thread please let me know and i will do this for you to save you reposting.

Ebonics you are on very unsound ground when you start preching about the Saudi's and their interpretation of Islam. It is generally accept from all faiths including well learned Islamists and muslims in general that the Saudi's are a joke in how they have their own intepretation of Islam.

Their treatment and civil rights towards woman is a disgrace to Islam, and as i have learned on here, is in the main, a total contadiction to how the average muslim leads his life. Yes we all know Mecca is in Saudi but that does not mean Islam belongs to the Saudis or are superior to other Muslims from other countries.

shafique wrote:Yes. I take this to mean that if there weren't mountains the movements of tectonic plates would cause more earth quakes than at present - i.e. in the (distant) past there were many more earth quakes than now. This is in line with my superficial knowledge of geology.

From my understanding, mountains are actually created from earthquakes. Mountainous regions are the spots where the most active earthquakes occur.

Qur'an 015.019 wrote:And the earth We have spread out (like a carpet); set thereon mountains firm and immovable; and produced therein all kinds of things in due balance.

Qur’an 027.061 wrote: Or, Who has made the earth firm to live in; made rivers in its midst; set thereon mountains immovable; and made a separating bar between the two bodies of flowing water? (can there be another) god besides Allah? Nay, most of them know not.

Here is another possible contradiction. These verses would indicate to me, that mountains (and the earth's crust) do not move at all. They are fixed into the earth, and as my previous verse shows, the Koran even describes mountains as pegs. In reality, mountains move along with the earths crust. So, according to geology, mountains are not fixed and immovable, but in actuality they can move up to the rate of 10 cm per year.

arniegang wrote:
Ebonics you are on very unsound ground when you start preching about the Saudi's and their interpretation of Islam. It is generally accept from all faiths including well learned Islamists and muslims in general that the Saudi's are a joke in how they have their own intepretation of Islam.

its not their interpretation - the quotes quoted are from muslim sahih's, published books distributed world wide to all muslims, compiled on that saudi government website.. the website is only a mean of transport - but has nothing to do with the author.

ebonics are u a jew?? u r arent ya?? i wanna know whats islam done to u? was ur family member a victim of the sept 11? did ur bro or son or i dont know someone died in afghanistan or iraq?

what do you want from the muslim community? an appology? would that really make u happy??

islam, christianity and judasim and some more religions are roughly the same. so y dont u just go on living ur life worshipping whoever u like and leave the muslims as it is. whats with u and islam? are u scared of islam?

I admit in the muslim community there are some sick minded ppl. but u also have to admit there are some sick minded ppl in the Christianity, Judaism and Hindu socitey. No one is perfect. and dont go judging the rest of the muslim community just because of what some Egyptian mulla says.

im a jew when it comes to the music i listen to - isreali musicians are the worlds best in my opinion

ebonics wrote:

arniegang wrote:
Ebonics you are on very unsound ground when you start preching about the Saudi's and their interpretation of Islam. It is generally accept from all faiths including well learned Islamists and muslims in general that the Saudi's are a joke in how they have their own intepretation of Islam.

its not their interpretation - the quotes quoted are from muslim sahih's, published books distributed world wide to all muslims, compiled on that saudi government website.. the website is only a mean of transport - but has nothing to do with the author.

Of course its their own interpretation. Saudi's enforcement of Islam differs to everyone elses.

arniegang wrote:

ebonics wrote:

arniegang wrote:
Ebonics you are on very unsound ground when you start preching about the Saudi's and their interpretation of Islam. It is generally accept from all faiths including well learned Islamists and muslims in general that the Saudi's are a joke in how they have their own intepretation of Islam.

its not their interpretation - the quotes quoted are from muslim sahih's, published books distributed world wide to all muslims, compiled on that saudi government website.. the website is only a mean of transport - but has nothing to do with the author.

Of course its their own interpretation. Saudi's enforcement of Islam differs to everyone elses.

arniegang

that same sahih is universal, regardless where it is published and purchased.... that same sahih is the same in every muslim country and library.....

the website is merely another mode of transport rather than a written published book..

i invite you to go to your local book shop and purchase that same sahih, from any bookshop in the UAE - it will mirror what i pasted, word for word.

so no - its not their interpretation..


even, if it was, the imam from al azhar admitted that the hadith is in fact true and valid... al azhar is the mecca of islamic studies, world wide... thus making that, case closed.

ebonics wrote:im a jew when it comes to the music i listen to - isreali musicians are the worlds best in my opinion

hmmm just as i expected. no wonder that "ppl" like u were able to find splits within Islam. and hey i dont wanna argue with u cos we all know that the jews happen to be the most "PERFECT RACE" on planet earth. I also do they know they are clever and cunning ppl. and history has shown this. I also do know that the world feels sorry for the Jews because of Hitler and the SS. Its a shame that those who were targetted once are now targetting others .

Yesterday I wrote an e-mail to the people at 'ask a geologist'. Today, one of them quickly responded with the following note:

It's no imposition on MY time - we are volunteers for this Ask-a-Geologist service, and we all take delight when people are interested in our profession.

Your question is actually backward. Mountains are almost always caused by tectonic plate movement (there are a few caused by diapirs or upwelling material from the deep crust and lower mantle). The shaking manifested as earthquakes is caused by ruptures and sudden bulges in the interactions of these plates - and the shaking shakes the mountains as much as the velleys and the oceans. Mountains are relatively small things - they are just slightly higher points on a plate that may be 5,000 miles across and in some places 60 miles thick.

For instance, most people believe the highest mountain on Earth is Everest in the Himalayas. Everest (and the whole Himalayan Range) is caused by the Indian tectonic plate ramming up against the Asian continent. Everest is "only" 29,000 feet tall. If I wanted to be technically absolutely correct, the tallest mountain on Earth is really Mauna Loa volcano in Hawaii. If you count down to where it's sitting on the ocean floor, it's over 46,000 feet tall.... still only just a slight bump on the Pacific Plate.

Here's another way to think about it: cut a deck of cards into two stacks and try to push them together: eventually they will arch or bulge where they meet. Same principle.

There is NOTHING on the face of the earth that is a permanent anchor: all the tectonic plates are moving with respect to each other. Any geodetic reference point is just someone's reference point that they reference all other points to. To someone else, THEY are the ones who are motionless. Mountains seem permanent only because they aren't moving very fast to your eyes.

Hope this helps.

Jeff Wynn, PhD
Cascades Volcano Observatory
US Geological Survey

So...

The Koran is factually in error regarding the function of mountains preventing the earth from shaking.

The Koran is factually in error regarding mountains as immovable.

valkyrie wrote:Yesterday I wrote an e-mail to the people at 'ask a geologist'. Today, one of them quickly responded with the following note:

So...

The Koran is factually in error regarding the function of mountains preventing the earth from shaking.

The Koran is factually in error regarding mountains as immovable.

Respect on asking a Geologist and getting the response.

I totally agree that the Quran would be wrong to say that the mountains prevent all earthquakes.

I would also agree 100% that the Quran would be wrong if it said that mountains did not move ever (however slowly) and that they were permanent fixtures on earth.

However, neither of these would be classed as a contradiction or have any bearing on the religion of Islam.

I personally would also argue that the Quran does not make the claims of no earthquakes or that mountains are permanent (but they do look pretty unmoveable to me - and one is being very pedantic to say they are actually moving! Strictly speaking, glass is not a solid but a fluid and is flowing with gravity - but on a very, very slow scale)

That said, the main point for me is that this is not a contradiction, and nothing really to do with religion. [Edit - however, I also believe that the Quran does not contain claims which are unscientific, other than verses which are clearly metaphorical or poetic. Verses which address aspects of nature, I believe, should be in accordance with scientific observation - so, whilst not a contradiction, I have looked into this and have posted below]

Cheers,
Shafique

Valkyrie - I thought I'd read up on the commentaries again, as I was sure I had read that geology had confirmed that mountains damped down earthquakes as per the following verse:


Al-Anbiya' Chapter 21 : Verse 31
And We have placed in the earth firm mountains lest it should quake with them; and We have made therein wide pathways, that they may be rightly guided.

However, you are right the reply you got from the geologist goes against this verse and my understanding.

So, this is what I had read

"..Geology has established the fact that mountains have, to a great extent, secured the earth against earthquakes. In the beginning the earth was very hot from the inside. When as a result of the intense heat gases were formed in the bowels of the earth, they forced a way out, thus causing violent agitations and eruptions in the forms of volcanoes, which having cooled down took the shape of mountains (..Ency Brit under 'Geology'). The verse may also signify that the mountains are a great help to the earth in moving steadily on its axis. The Quran spoke of the earth as 'moving round' long before it was discovered it was not stationary and moved on its axis and round the sun."

I also Googled - and yes there are a number of claim and counter claims out there on the subject. Some say that the 'shaking' prevention from mountains is really referring to the stability of the earth in spinning, rather than earthquakes (as in the latter part of the commentary).

I am personally not satisfied with these explanations and have to say that the Geologist's opinion that mountains do not prevent/mitigate earthquakes is not compatible with this verse.

Therefore, this verse is either scientifically incorrect or the geologist's opinion is incorrect.

[As a non-geologist though, once a mountain range has formed, I would have thought that earthquakes would subside as the 'bulging' forms a pressure valve for the tectonic plates. Using the analogy provided by the geologist (and high school geography), earthquakes happen when pressure has built up and the plates have no where to go - so with a deck of cards, there is pressure and trembling up until the cards buckle - but when they buckle, extra pressure causes a rise in the cards, but a relatively smooth rise and not the 'trembling'.

Therefore, aren't the mountains a sign of significant historical (geologically speaking) movements, and now with these in place the violent movements that caused the mountains are gone and we are left with the (geologically speaking) lighter earthquakes of today.

I mean, it goes without saying that we haven't seen a new mountain range form in the past few million years.

Therefore, perhaps the Geologist is not thinking far back enough to the earthquakes and geological movements that caused the mountain ranges to form. I'd be interested in hearing whether they agree or disagree that we have fewer earthquakes/upheavals in our current time than at the time before mountains were formed (as the Quran is saying mountains reduce earthquakes - the contention would only be wrong if mountains, or the process making mountains, had no effect on the stability of the surface of the earth)]


I also did a search on reference to mountains - some say mountains are firm, others say in the final days mountains will become like dust..


TaHa Chapter 20 : Verse 105
And they ask thee concerning the mountains. Say, 'My Lord will break them into pieces and scatter them as dust;

Al-Naml Chapter 27 : Verse 88
And thou seest the mountains, which thou thinkest to be firmly fixed, pass away as the clouds pass away - the handiwork of Allah Who has made everything perfect. Verily, He is full Aware of what you do.

Al-Kahf Chapter 18 : Verse 47
And bethink of the day when We shall remove the mountains and thou wilt see the nations of the earth march forth against one another and We shall gather them all together and shall not leave any one of them behind.


Al-Haqqah Chapter 69 : Verse 14
And the earth and the mountains are heaved up and then are crushed in a single crash, ,

Al-Muzzammil Chapter 73 : Verse 14
On the day when the earth and the mountains shall quake, and the mountains will become like crumbling sand-hills.

Al-Qari`ah Chapter 101 : Verse 5
And the mountains will be like carded wool.



Al-Nahl Chapter 16 : Verse 15
And He has placed in the earth firm mountains lest it quake with you and rivers and routes that you may find the way to your destination.

Al-Naba' Chapter 78 : Verse 7
And the mountains as pegs?

This when read in context is asking a question - v6 'Have We not made the earth as a bed, (v7) And the mountains as pegs? v8 And we created you in pairs, v9 And made your sleep for rest.

So for me, this verse is asking a question - is the earth not +as+ a bed and the mountains are (relative to the earth) pegs in it?

(Again, Google shows articles from Muslims explaining what 'pegs' mean - that mountains penetrate into the crust etc, and counter arguments that mountains are formed from tectonic plates. I think that in this verse pegs is just a juxtaposition to the previous verse which talks of the earth as a bed).

Apologies for the long post - but always happy to research Quranic verses and always amazed how much can be said about them!

Cheers,
Shafique

After posting the above, I came across this work from 1991:
http://news-service.stanford.edu/pr/91/ ... c1138.html

Volcanic action can prevent earthquakes -- sometimes

STANFORD -- There are well-documented associations between earthquakes and volcanoes, but two Stanford geophysicists have found evidence for an unexpected twist to that relationship.

Instead of increasing the pressure that causes earthquakes, molten rock sometimes may prevent large quakes by filling spaces in the Earth's stretching crust that otherwise would form faults.

Their explanation -- based on a study of underground flow of basaltic magma, a molten rock from deep in the earth that sometimes creates volcanoes - may change how volcanic and earthquake hazards are assessed.

[snip]

Still on the subject of mountains and plate tectonics, I didn't realise that one verse talked about the Mountains appearing to be fixed whilst actually were in motion.

I found some articles on the subject which talk about how on one level the mountains are 'floating' but on another level are still 'fixed' (mountains don't move according to normal human interaction, and therefore are fixed in that regard - but in actual fact they are moving very slowly and are 'floating like clouds' - something that commentators would have not comprehended until the last century when plate tectonics was discovered!):

This verse of the Quran says that whilst it appears the mountains are fixed, they are actually moving:
Al-Naml Chapter 27 : Verse 88

And thou seest the mountains, which thou thinkest to be firmly fixed, whilst they are constantly floating like the floating of clouds - the handiwork of Allah Who has made everything perfect. Verily, He is full Aware of what you do.


The Qur’anic overview outlined above, in particular the verse ( C h . 2 7 : v.88], appears to be contrary to the commonly held views about the rigidity of the earth and the mountains, and has presented considerable difficulty to earlier commentators.

However, during the last few decades an enormous amount of information has been obtained about the
e a r t h ’s formation, structure, geologic history and its interior
processes. The earth is now viewed not as a solid and rigid body, but as
a dynamic, ever changing and living planet. As a result a
scientific field of study referred to as plate tectonics has evolved.


The above is new to me - and I'm still going to look into the mountains/earthquake issue further!

Cheers,
Shafique[/i]

shafique,

Is 27:88 a description of mountains today, or is it a prophecy regarding what will happen to mountains at the day of judgment?

valkyrie wrote:shafique,

Is 27:88 a description of mountains today, or is it a prophecy regarding what will happen to mountains at the day of judgment?

27.88 is about mountains today - the other verses about the destruction of mountains in the latter days are in the future tense - as you can see from my post yesterday where I quoted a number of them.

It says 'and you see the mountains, which you think to be firmly fixed, when they are are floating..'

To be honest, this verse and it's meaning were only brought to my attention yesterday (although I had read about it before in a book, I had forgotten the details - and only remembered that the book showed the Quran was in accordance with Geology).

So, I agree that the reply from the Geologist about mountains not dampening earthquakes contradicts the Quranic claim.

This verse does show that the Quran says mountains aren't actually fixed despite seeming to be so (and arguably for practical purposes, on a human scale they are fixed).

Given that the science/theory of plate tectonics is less than 100 years old, I can only conclude that at the turn of the 20th century I would have had to conclude that the Quran is scientifically incorrect to have asserted that the mountains are moving!

Early commentators found ways of interpreting the verse - but it caused problems for them (from what I read).

I am at a loss to come up with a good idea about why an Arabian claimant to prophethood 1600 years ago would make a claim that mountains are moving and not fixed, when this scientific fact would not manifest itself for 1500 years.

Perhaps the link between earthquakes and mountains is yet to be brought to the attention of the geologist you spoke to

In summary - the Quran's claims of mountains dampening earthqakes is not supported by a qualified Geologist, but his reply confirms another verse about mountains moving despite appearing firm.

Neither of these issues are contradictions, but descriptions of nature - and are not really relevant to the religion of Islam (i.e. aren't related to instructions on how to live and worship).

I thank you for bringing this up, for I have learnt something and will continue to ask about the lack of confirmation that mountains dampen earthquakes. Up to now I had not found a claim of the Quran that was not backed up by science - and fair's fair, you have shown me one.

What is wrong in this article? http://www.islamonline.net/english/Scie ... le13.shtml

Continental orogenic belts are the result of plate boundary interaction, which can take place between oceanic and continental lithospheric plates that reaches its climax when two continents come into collision after consuming the ocean floor that used to separate them. Such continent/continent collisions result in the scraping off of all sediments and sedimentary rocks, as well as all volcanic rocks that have accumulated on the ocean floor, squeezing them between the two colliding continents, crumpling them considerably in the form of mountains. This is immediately followed by the cessation of movement for the two colliding continental plates which become welded together with considerable crustal shortening (in the form of giant thrusts and infrastructural napes) and considerable crustal thickening (in the form of the decoupling of the two lithospheric plates as well as their penetration by the deep downward extensions of the mountain chains then formed). Such downward extensions of the mountains are commonly known as "mountain roots" and are several times their protrusion above the ground surface. The sea-deep roots stabilize the continental masses (or plates), as plate motions are almost completely halted by their formation, especially when the mountain mass is finally entrapped within a continent as an old craton.

Again, the notion of a plastic layer (asthenosphere) directly below the outer rocky cover of the Earth (lithosphere) makes it possible to understand why the continents are elevated above the oceanic basins, why the crust beneath them is much thicker (30-40) km) than it is beneath the oceans (5-8 km) and why the thickness of the continental plates (100-150 km) is much greater than that of the oceanic plates (65 70 km). This is simply because of the fact that the less dense lithosphere (about 2.7 to 2.9 gm/cm³) floats in the asthenosphere, in exactly the same way as an iceberg floats in the oceanic waters.

In as much as mountains have very deep roots, all other elevated regions such as plateaus and continents must have corresponding (although much shallower) roots, extending downward into the asthenosphere. In other words, the entire lithosphere is floating above the plastic or semi-plastic asthenosphere, and its elevated structures are held steadily by their downwardly plunging roots (test-fig. 10).

Doesn't mountain roots slow down continental movement? Here I found something

Africa to a large degree exerts a control over modern plate tectonics, because it barely moves at all. The base of its lithosphere connects in several places with the solid mantle, so that asthenosphere is not universally present beneath the continent. These roots slow down Africa's motion. One name applied to them is "tectosphere", and they are partly governed by the low heat production in the lithosphere and underlying mantle, as a result of U, Th and K having been extracted from depth by processes that led to separation of continental crust. These processes reach completion beneath the most ancient segments of continental crust, and result in them eventually becoming geologically inert; they become cratons.

http://www.earth-pages.com/archive/tectonics.asp

Nucleus,

The quotes do corroborate the Quranic verses about mountains being like pegs and also reducing earthquakes.

I would be interested to hear if the points made are valid according to the Geologist quoted before.

Anyway, as a non-geologist, my knowledge has increased because of this discussion. I guess we can now say that the claim of earthquake reduction is one that can be challenged but not dismissed by science?

Well, I guess we move on to the next 'contradiction'?

Cheers,
Shafique

Hi, shafique. I have sent another e-mail to an earth science professor who specializes on earthquakes. He will probably respond in the coming days (monday).

The reason I asked you if v27:88 was dealing with the end times was because the context of the verse appears to be clearly speaking about judgment day. The immediate verses before and after this verse are prophecies of the end of the world:

And the Day that the Trumpet will be sounded - then will be smitten with terror those who are in the heavens, and those who are on earth, except such as Allah will please (to exempt): and all shall come to His (Presence) as beings conscious of their lowliness. Thou seest the mountains and thinkest them firmly fixed: but they shall pass away as the clouds pass away: (such is) the artistry of Allah, who disposes of all things in perfect order: for he is well acquainted with all that ye do. If any do good, good will (accrue) to them therefrom; and they will be secure from terror that Day.


It reads to me that mountains are currently fixed (as what several Koranic verses say), but at the end of days, Allah will move the mountains as clouds like the other different verses in the Koran that talk about mountains moving, vanishing, collapsing, scattering and being crushed.