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How about we close this topic and start a more believable one like "the holocoust never happened".

An apt quote;

""They must find it difficult...those who accept authority as the truth, instead of truth as the authority"

- Gerald Massey.

benwj wrote:How about we close this topic and start a more believable one like "the holocoust never happened".

lol it did happen. But the matter of fact is there are millions of "holocoust" happening around the world. Even in Israel its happening. I know its hard to believe. Hey the world is a big place. Do you know whats going on in Africa right NOW?? Or maybe you could tell me what Bushy Baby is thinking of doing next .

benwj wrote:How about we close this topic and start a more believable one like "the holocoust never happened".

you just cant reason with some people mate - save yer breath

scot1870 wrote:

uaebadoo wrote:This is the truth admitted by the American themselves and even in 2001 ,some people had big question mark about what happened

Just stick to Gulf News telling you what's really happening in the world...

Ridiculous. Arabs flew planes in to 2 big towers, tell me where the doubt is? Someone last week said the twin towers were rigged, how come the "expert" didn't think they were?

Stick to your FOX news where you hear all the lies, You belived they found Mohammed Atta Passport after his plane hit the tower !!!!!!!!!!!!!!, You beleived that Pilots flying general AVIATION plane such the Cessna can fly a commercial Jet and manuver it as A fighter to hit the tower

Listen to the lie from Bush himself

http://www.truthnews.us/?p=280

uaebadoo wrote:Stick to your FOX news where you hear all the lies, You belived they found Mohammed Atta Passport after his plane hit the tower !!!!!!!!!!!!!!, You beleived that Pilots flying general AVIATION plane such the Cessna can fly a commercial Jet and manuver it as A fighter to hit the tower

I know you're Emirati and basic steering is beyond you but trust me, it's not a "flying" leap of the imagination to understand it. Taking off an landing a plane is hard, the actual steering is, well, like driving a car. I'm British too, why would I watch Fox News?

rudeboy, which part didn't you grasp? Blair was hounded by the media before and after about WMD, it's the defining moment of his tenure and he will forever be remembered for it.

Your governments lie to you too anyway. You just don't have the media in place to question what's going on.

Best of luck in the real world guys, I said it before and I'll say it again, go and experience the world, you'll be a better person for it.

scot1870 wrote:

uaebadoo wrote:Stick to your FOX news where you hear all the lies, You belived they found Mohammed Atta Passport after his plane hit the tower !!!!!!!!!!!!!!, You beleived that Pilots flying general AVIATION plane such the Cessna can fly a commercial Jet and manuver it as A fighter to hit the tower

I know you're Emirati and basic steering is beyond you but trust me, it's not a "flying" leap of the imagination to understand it. Taking off an landing a plane is hard, the actual steering is, well, like driving a car. I'm British too, why would I watch Fox News?

.

Let me try to explain basic steering which is beyond me as an Emirati,but, I will try , There is no Comparsion between the steering of an airplane and a car and ask any pilot.

This is what an amercan pilot said as written in the news

For a guy to just jump into the cockpit and fly like an ace is impossible – there is not one chance in a thousand,” said Wittenberg, recalling that when he made the jump from Boeing 727’s to the highly sophisticated computerized characteristics of the 737’s through 767’s it took him considerable time to feel comfortable flying.


“I had to be trained to use the new, computerized systems. I just couldn’t jump in and fly one,” he added.


http://www.lewisnews.com/article.asp?ID=106623

By the way, this is not quoted from Gulf News

and almost all of those buttons are for taking off, landing or other essential systems.

The steering apparatus ain't hard though!

scot1870 wrote::lol: and almost all of those buttons are for taking off, landing or other essential systems.

The steering apparatus ain't hard though!

I am sorry scot I didnt know that everyone was flying "flying cars" on the M40 . And by the way it sounds like you are an experienced pilot. So what do you fly? And how do you know its not hard?? Have you flown a boeing aeroplane. No mate I am not talking about flying on Microsoft Simulator 2007 . So how do you know that the steering apparatus aint hard???

Wow scott maybe you can try flying a boeing really low and crash into the Pentagon.

Wait wait wait I know I know it. Ok I hve cracked it now. They had the auto pilot on lol.

Scott y dont u take a trip around a few more "islamic" countries and that should open your eyes about USA and the western foregin policy.

Kind of off topic - but here is what happens when your first car is a performance car. This is why having to much money and not having a 1 liter CC hatchback as your first car to get used to driving can prove a hazard;

http://www.troodi.com/media/2522/Horrib ... _Accident/

I love this debate.

That looks distinctly the result of the use of thermite incendiary cutter charges.

Because you know... everyone knows what thermite incendiary cutter charges look like.

Or the people who claim they heard what 'sounded like a missile' when very people know what a missile sounds like.

Or it looked like a controlled demolition when very few people know what a controlled demolition looks like.

And of course... people are happy to quote experts out of context.

Lets look at a few things that put us on the straight and narrow and leave us with no choice but to accept what has come forth as facts.

Point 1
Has any member of any demolition team come forward and said "we set charged on building 7." - no they haven't. The sole belief that is was demolished comes from the use of the word 'pull' by the owner. Not compelling evidence.

Point 2
For those who say a missile hit the Pentagon... how do they explain the massive amount of plane wreckage pulled off the lawn and out of the pentagon.

Point 3
I see dead people. Or rather... I don't. Where are all the people who were supposed to be on the jets if they weren't really jets.

And of course... where do you find trained pilots willing to fly into buildings if the claim is untrained pilots couldn't do it?

The reality is this happened exactly as played out, and the reason why it worked is because it was incredibly simple. So simple if flew underneath the radar, because the US Intelligence Machine is designed to look for complex scenarios. The lack of complexity is the brilliance in this plan, not the execution.

^ian^ wrote:I love this debate.

JJ wrote:That looks distinctly the result of the use of thermite incendiary cutter charges.

Because you know... everyone knows what thermite incendiary cutter charges look like.

Perhaps you could show me some examples and correct me?

Or the people who claim they heard what 'sounded like a missile' when very people know what a missile sounds like.

Not many people know what a missile sounds like?? A lot of people know what a domestic jet sounds like would you not agree. I never recall once in my life hearing a flight overhead and thinking it sounded like a missile. I can just see that one standing up in court - "you honor, not many people know what a missile sounds like". Did you get this info from a national poll?

Or it looked like a controlled demolition when very few people know what a controlled demolition looks like.

To the contrary I would ask if you are a controlled demolition expert? I am basing my claims on the words of controlled demolition experts, who all say WTC7 has the distinct fingerprint of a Controlled demolition. Watch the first link.

And of course... people are happy to quote experts out of context.

Example please - otherwise its all hot air.

Lets look at a few things that put us on the straight and narrow and leave us with no choice but to accept what has come forth as facts.

Point 1
Has any member of any demolition team come forward and said "we set charged on building 7." - no they haven't. The sole belief that is was demolished comes from the use of the word 'pull' by the owner. Not compelling evidence.

Ha! Point 1 is a killer - man down - why do the guilty not come forth and say - I did it!. I think you may have missed the point somewhat - do you understand what intelligence agencies are and how they operate.

Point 2
For those who say a missile hit the Pentagon... how do they explain the massive amount of plane wreckage pulled off the lawn and out of the pentagon.

It gets better - Massive amounts

All I have seen are some panels and Engine which was later found to the wrong revision of aircraft.

The wings did not do much damage which was lucky - also the rolls royce engines situated under each wing hardly left a scratch. Phew - it could have been a lot worse - close shave there chaps.

Point 3
I see dead people. Or rather... I don't. Where are all the people who were supposed to be on the jets if they weren't really jets.

It's early in the morning for me - I have read that a few times but cannot fathom what you mean. You don't see dead people so where are all the dead people if they were supposed to be jets. I would ask the same question.

And of course... where do you find trained pilots willing to fly into buildings if the claim is untrained pilots couldn't do it?

Sure - the Japanese had the same issue during world war II.

The reality is this happened exactly as played out, and the reason why it worked is because it was incredibly simple. So simple if flew underneath the radar, because the US Intelligence Machine is designed to look for complex scenarios. The lack of complexity is the brilliance in this plan, not the execution.

"because the US Intelligence Machine is designed to look for complex scenarios." WTF does that mean?

Sorry - but that's a load of bollocks. Have ever heard of NORAD? They have a strict protocol. If domestic flight strays from its flight path - they scramble, *every single time* - this consists of flying in visible close proximity to said aircraft and demanding accountability and identity. If they do not navigate back on to course or provide a valid reason for straying - they get shot down.

This would have happened on that day, but for one reason. NORAD were told to stand down.

To the compiracytherrorists above

I’m 100% with you guys.

Actually none of it happened.

1. The buildings are still there. They hired David Copperfield to help them out. Tourists and foreigners can’t see them nor do they have access to WTC. It is all a big Hollywood set-up. If you go to NYC pay attention: you can’t see the same sky on the other side when you look up. Why do you think they don’t let you get too close to it: because you would touch the screen that is covering the buildings. There are many tunnels leading to the site and people go there to work everyday. You need to know the secret handshake and hand signal to be able to view the buildings.

2. The plan was actually hatched out by Santa and his Elves. They needed the space and what better way to get good storage space for all the toys.

3. World trade center 7? There was never such a building it was built that day out of playing cards and then made to collapse. They were going to use domino chips but since they would have needed a truck to bring the chips in (and thus give up their cover) they used playing cards which the conspirators carried in their packets.

3. The war in Afghanistan and Iraq did not happen either. Did you ever see the movie “Wagging the dog”? You are right you can’t believe the press. Not about 9/11 not about the War in Iraq or Afghanistan. Actually, I think I saw Saddam at Ibn Battuta Mall yesterday buying happy corn.

4. The Pentagon Thing? Actually they were just building a road to make a shortcut thru the building. It is a hassle if you have to walk all around to go to the bathroom (it is pentagon shaped after all). The project was behind schedule and on 9/11 to cover up for construction delays they blamed it on Osama – After all, his family is in the construction business so he can be blamed either way.

5. The flight 93 thing? Come on, we all know this was a movie plan from Hollywood. In fact, they had written it as a sequel to “Aeroplane” but by then O.J. Simpson did not have much of a following so they blamed it on another dark guy (Osama).

How do I know all this? I read it on a bubble gum wrapper!

^^ thats as simple as it gets.. More realistic to believe than the CIA, FBI, intelligence agency crap. I think all the events after the 9/11 have a massive Movie, Magic industries, Stock Market nexus. Screen writers did a good job anyway.

erm does anyone here actually fly planes?

You could actually basically take over the controls of a Boeing in flight after some lessons in a Cessna and some simulator training as the controls are pretty similar, it's the Airbus and it's 'fly by wire' or joystick controls that are totally different, hence the reason Boeing pilots don't fly Airbus and vice versa.

You have the control stick which you push forward to go down, pull back to go up, move left and right to barrell roll in thet direction, but to actually turn you have to engage the rudder pedals at your feet.

It's really not rocket scienbce you know.

I thought I'd chip in and say I'm enjoying this thread immensely.

I'm not a beleiver in conspiracy theories, nor do I tax my mind about them - generally facts do not seem to change events or most people's minds. So in the end, what is the point?

However it is enjoyable to see people propose the conspiracies and others taking the time to pour scorn on the arguments.


That said, I haven't yet seen a good response to the points about no damage being done to the Pentagon by the plane's engines. I also saw on you-tube the accusation that the engines weren't found...

Also, the collapse of the other building (I forget what it's called) does look suspicious, taking so long afterwards.

Perhaps someone can enlighten me on the explanations of the above two and I'll look them up.

Oh - one other point that someone can clear up for me - were the early reports that a passport of one of the hijackers being found undamaged near the WTC true or just an urban myth? That I would find hard to believe (and always did at the time)..

I also think it is plausible that Flight 93 was shot down as a defensive move (but this is not a conspiracy theory, as it assumes the flight was in fact hijacked!)


All said though, I haven't been convinced it is a conspiracy... ocram's razor and all that.

Cheers,
Shafique

The passport was the key piece of evidence linking Mohammed Atta to the event.

Basically the story goes that the aircraft fuel was enough to cut clean through the girders so that the building collapsed, yet the passport was found at ground zero completely intact.

It gets even more interesting when later on the other hijackers were found alive and well in Saudi Arabia - not to add they were quite miffed by there connection to the event as well.

Also Mohammed Atta was wired 100k USD by General Mahmoud Ahmed, the then head of Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) just before the attack - General Mahmoud was known to have key relationships with the CIA sharing knowledge on the 'war on terror'. When the news broke he was forced into retirement and several agents were put on a gagging order. This has never come up in court or been discussed in the commission.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,1 ... 20,00.html

Now the sheep will come up with a suggestion like 'perhaps it was just a mistake or lots of people do underhand deals within governments'. My answer to this is wake up and research - find some links and prove me wrong.

This is the most unfortunate thing of all and perhaps the saddest is that people just blindly accept what the mainstream media tells them - since then thousands of lifes have been lost, two wars created and no one see's the pattern and enquires for themselves. They would rather just hit back with the very spin that has deluded them in the first place.

Concord wrote:How do I know all this? I read it on a bubble gum wrapper!

Fox news you mean?

shafique wrote:That said, I haven't yet seen a good response to the points about no damage being done to the Pentagon by the plane's engines. I also saw on you-tube the accusation that the engines weren't found...

Also, the collapse of the other building (I forget what it's called) does look suspicious, taking so long afterwards.

Perhaps someone can enlighten me on the explanations of the above two and I'll look them up.

Point 1)

One of the engines was found. After the CIA released pictures it was noted that the type of engine was a different revision to the model fitted to the plane which crashed.

Point 2) Check out the first link at the start of this post.

There is also a body formed by architects (one of them involved in the structural design of WTC 1&2) who have come forward and joined the 9/11 truth movement. I will try and dig out there full presentation for you.

Chocoholic wrote:erm does anyone here actually fly planes?

You could actually basically take over the controls of a Boeing in flight after some lessons in a Cessna and some simulator training as the controls are pretty similar, it's the Airbus and it's 'fly by wire' or joystick controls that are totally different, hence the reason Boeing pilots don't fly Airbus and vice versa.

You have the control stick which you push forward to go down, pull back to go up, move left and right to barrell roll in thet direction, but to actually turn you have to engage the rudder pedals at your feet.

It's really not rocket scienbce you know.

Do you fly commercial jets choco?

Here's what the professional instructor who trained the pilot who in turn 'allegedly' flew the jet into the pentagon says;

Ms. Ladner said the Phoenix staff never suspected that Mr. Hanjour was a hijacker but feared that his skills were so weak that he could pose a safety hazard if he flew a commercial airliner.

''There was no suspicion as far as evildoing,'' Ms. Ladner said. ''It was more of a very typical instructional concern that 'you really shouldn't be in the air.' ''

Staff members characterized Mr. Hanjour as polite, meek and very quiet. But most of all, the former employee said, they considered him a very bad pilot.

''I'm still to this day amazed that he could have flown into the Pentagon,'' the former employee said. ''He could not fly at all.''

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h ... A9649C8B63

Until someone explains to me why many eye-witnesses on the ground at the time say that they saw a plane crash down onto the Pentagon lawns I\'m fairly confused how \"it was a missile\" conspiracy theorists can tie their shoelaces and get themselves dressed in the morning.

Frederick wrote:Until someone explains to me why many eye-witnesses on the ground at the time say that they saw a plane crash down onto the Pentagon lawns I\'m fairly confused how "it was a missile" conspiracy theorists can tie their shoelaces and get themselves dressed in the morning.

And likewise until someone explains to me why witnesses say they heard a missile and the whole thing stinks to high heaven - then I am...not quite confused, but very far from convinced.

errrrrrrrr i think you will find they took commercial aviation lessons in the States. Maybe this is how they managed to steer the planes maybe?

As it happens i had a pilots (PPL) licence, and like Chocs pointed out, in free flight ie left/right/ascend/decend even i could fly a 777,747,767 etc because i know and understand the principles of flight.

arniegang wrote:errrrrrrrr i think you will find they took commercial aviation lessons in the States. Maybe this is how they managed to steer the planes maybe?

As it happens i had a pilots (PPL) licence, and like Chocs pointed out, in free flight ie left/right/ascend/decend even i could fly a 777,747,767 etc because i know and understand the principles of flight.

Did you read what the instructors said four posts above?

i did yes, but i dont see the relevance. it basically said same as me.

i would be considered a crap pilot too. but i would know how to fly it all the same. all the basics of joystick flight controls are the same on ALL planes

the size of the plane is of no relevance with the exception of the difference of resonse between a small and large plane.

jabbajabba wrote:

Frederick wrote:Until someone explains to me why many eye-witnesses on the ground at the time say that they saw a plane crash down onto the Pentagon lawns I\'m fairly confused how "it was a missile" conspiracy theorists can tie their shoelaces and get themselves dressed in the morning.

And likewise until someone explains to me why witnesses say they heard a missile and the whole thing stinks to high heaven - then I am...not quite confused, but very far from convinced.

As opposed to the dozens of people who SAW a commercial jetliner fly into the pentagon?

Also, THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION CANT EVEN PLANT ANY WMD IN IRAQ, you think they pulled off 9/11? Not. bloody. likely.

Frederick wrote:As opposed to the dozens of people who SAW a commercial jetliner fly into the pentagon?

Also, THE BUSH ADMINISTRATION CANT EVEN PLANT ANY WMD IN IRAQ, you think they pulled off 9/11? Not. bloody. likely.

Dozens of people eh?

As for Iraq that did not need to find any, they had already got in and duped the public into supporting them fresh off the back of 911;



Sure looks like a jetliner, clear as day;









Some more to consider;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTUOpoleszU&NR=1

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread79655/pg1

Scroll down to \"eyewitness testimony\", two-thirds of the way down, but the whole article is a good one.

In conclusion, \"review the facts\":

Size of 757 matches the initial size of hole in the building - somewhere between 13 and 16 feet (757 is 13 feet wide/high)

Rims found in building match those of a 757

Small turbine engine outside is an APU

Same engine has been clearly stated to not match a Global Hawk engine

Blue seats from 757 laying on ground in photos

Part of \"American\" fuselage logo visible in more than 1 photo

Engine parts photographed inside match a Rolls-Royce RB211

Structural components photographed in wreckage match Boeing paint primer schemes

Large deisel generator in front of building hit by a large heavy object

Large deisel engine outside is spun towards the building - could not be result of bomb blast or missile explosion

Multiple eye witnesses say they saw an airliner

Multiple eye witnesses say they saw an airliner hit the Pentagon

60+ bodies, matching the passenger list and flight crew roster identified and returned to families from Pentagon wreckage

lol cant believe this argument is going on.

What i really dont understand is 3,500 odd people died in USA in one DAY and USA cried their eyes out.

Ever since 1940s 100,000 ppl have died from conflicts in Chechyneya, Bosnia, Kosovo, Kashmir, Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan but no1 gave a toss about them. ys that?

9 11 happened I dont know who did it. It could have been the USA government or it could have been Islamic Terroists but ALL i know is that ever since 9 11 has happened the world has not become a safer world.

Whenever I go back to London and travel by the subway or take a bus I get scared. Whenever I walk through the security check of dubai international airport, I have to take my shoes off, my belt of etc etc and you cant even take certain things on the aeroplane which you were allowed to 10 years earlier.

Whenever I arrive at Heathrow airport I know for a fact that there are ppl sitting in a room monitoring EVERY single move I make. Whenever I talk to someone on the telephone i get worried that if i mention the word Al Qaeda or Bush i ll get in trouble.

hmmm what does this mean? Lol i did my A-level history and I learnt during the Nazis regime that the Nazis would do this. They would monitor EVERYONES movement, what they were talking about, or what they were up to. They KNEW everything about everyone. Well ask yourself how do you know that your emails are not being monitored, y do u have to take ur shoes off at the airport, how do you know that whenever you are talking to someone on the telephone your calls are not being monitored.

And oh yeh it doesnt matter if you are brown, black or white or a christian, muslim, hindu or even an athiest.

What I would suggest is that you WAKE UP and see whats happening around u. Dont believe what CNN or NBC or Al Jazeera tell you. We dont know whats happening in Iraq we dont know how many American soilders are being killed, we dont know what they planning in the Pentagon, we dont know if they really are aliens and that area 51 really exists or not.

Whatever you do dont believe the NEWSpapers or even the channels. If you really want to know the truth. I suggest you type in Afghanistan or Iraq and see the movies that are REALLY coming out of there.

Cnn says 2 soilders have been killed. How do we know its telling the truth. How do we know that they are just saying 2 when in reality it is 20 and if they mentioned 20 the morale of the ppl would go down. HOW do we know they aint doing this?

Y is every news channel a supporter of its government and never says bad things about their governments? Is it because they are the voice of their government? Is it that they are the tool of propoganda?

Look at the Nazis. They used propoganda to hyptonize its ppl and look what Hitler did. They guy nearly took over the whole of Europe and no1 from GERMANY stood up against him and ever since the Germans regret and are sorry for what happened.

Are we living in a safer world? Does who live in England do you trust ur government? Ever after they stood in front of the UN and said there are weapons of mass distruction in Iraq. And when u did invade Iraq did u find any WMD?

I really dont know who carried out the 911. it could have been al qaeda but then again it could have been bush or even CIA i really dont know but all I know is that whatever they show in the news or even in the newspapers yes gulf news included is not the TRUTH.