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I took a look at the second link now as well, and this is getting really ridicoulus. There is some things thats interesting to debate, but that site is a little bit to eager to claim miracles in each n every verse of the koran, theres some serious misuse of the word miracle. But since i got some time over ill comment some of them..

Reduced movement at night
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_84.html

"He splits the sky at dawn, and appoints the night as a time of stillness and the Sun and Moon as a means of reckoning. (Qur'an, 6:96)"

Whats the miracle in that? The verse is obviously using a poetic form of describing the night. Even if it was refeering to certain hormones in the body that makes people move less or wtv, its still not a verse only god cudve been the author to. Look at a sleeping person, hes not moving, doesnt require todays science to figure that out.


Man is created from clay
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_59.html

Oh, really? Thats news to me. Obviously we have some of the same elements as clay, but we are mostly made out of water. This cant be called a miracle can it? Its rather the other way around.

This is the argument for the verse being a miracle;
"When the human body is examined today, it may be discovered that many elements present on the earth are also to be found in the body. Living tissues contain 95% carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus and sulphur, with a total of 26 different elements.91 In another verse of the Qur'an we are told:

We created man from an extract of clay. (Qur'an, 23:12)

The Arabic word "sulala," translated as "extract" in the verse, means "representative example, essence." As we have seen, the information revealed in the Qur'an 1,400 years ago confirms what modern science tells us-the fact that the same elements are employed in human creation as those found in the soil."

Yeah, we are not extraterrestrials, of course we got the same elements in our body as those that can be found on earth. Proves that we are made of clay? NO.

The elements in the body can be found in the soil, thats right. Nothing weird with that either since most of what we eat origin from vegetables that once grew in the soil, sometimes via an animal first. But is soil and clay the same thing? NO, so is this a miracle? NO.


Rain which brings a dead land back to life.
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_30.html

"… We send down from heaven pure water so that by it We can bring a dead land to life and give drink to many of the animals and people We created. (Qur'an, 25:48-49)"

How is this a scientific miracle? I highly doubt that people back then dint know that water made things grow.


Sigh, i got better things to do, i just wanted to show that u shudnt believe things at first sight. I cant understand how people can call these things scientific miracles, surely non of the educated muslims here wud call these things miracles? There might be miracles in that book, but most of this stuff is just BS, ppl are too eager to find "miracles" so they go with whatever there is.

node88 wrote:As for the koran claryfying itself. I dont see the point of it. Why not write it clear to begin with. Why are only those "gifted with understandind" supposed to get what it means. It only creates confusion. Its pretty important stuff we are talking about here, burning in hell for an eternity or goin to heaven. Why not make it as a law book that everyone could understand. And why give man the gift of thinking and doubting and then give them a book to follow that can be doubted. Its stupid. Only points to the koran not being divine and someone making a fail safe way of securing possible errors by saying the doubting people only interpretates it the wrong way. Why make it interpretetable to begin with.

What parts of the Quranic law are hard for you to understand?

If you go back and read the Quranic verse I posted, it says that there are clear, unambiguous verses of the Quran and they form the main part of the book.

Whether the Quran contains scientific miracles or not is a matter of opinion - I just view them as an interesting aspect of the Quran, but the main message of the Quran is not that it is a book describing nature, but a book describing how man should live one's life. In that regard it is very clear - how one should treat fellow humans, God's creatures and how to attain peace within and peace without - peace with oneself and be at peace with your Creator.

Arabic is a unique language and another miracle of the Quran is the basic fact that it is the only language of its age that is currently understood by more people now than at any other point in its history - i.e. the number of people who speak and understand Arabic continues to grow, whilst all other languages have faded away in terms of numbers. The Quranic Arabic is pure and unparalleled and is there for all to read, and for those who do not understand Arabic, translations are readily available.

The facts relating the Arabic language can be considered a 'miracle' by some, others will think it just an interesting fact that may be true but doesn't prove the veracity of the Quran.

For me, God says in the Quran he will protect the Quran - that says to me that the Quran won't be changed and that the means of understanding the original words will never be lost - Arabic will not go the way of Latin and Hebrew and become only a liturgical language so that only some of the people will understand the scriptures. The fact that Arabic is more understood now than before, for me is a 'miracle'... but I would hazard a guess that you are not impressed.

Anyway, I wish you well in your search for truth.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:

node88 wrote:As for the koran claryfying itself. I dont see the point of it. Why not write it clear to begin with. Why are only those "gifted with understandind" supposed to get what it means. It only creates confusion. Its pretty important stuff we are talking about here, burning in hell for an eternity or goin to heaven. Why not make it as a law book that everyone could understand. And why give man the gift of thinking and doubting and then give them a book to follow that can be doubted. Its stupid. Only points to the koran not being divine and someone making a fail safe way of securing possible errors by saying the doubting people only interpretates it the wrong way. Why make it interpretetable to begin with.

What parts of the Quranic law are hard for you to understand?

If you go back and read the Quranic verse I posted, it says that there are clear, unambiguous verses of the Quran and they form the main part of the book.

Whether the Quran contains scientific miracles or not is a matter of opinion - I just view them as an interesting aspect of the Quran, but the main message of the Quran is not that it is a book describing nature, but a book describing how man should live one's life. In that regard it is very clear - how one should treat fellow humans, God's creatures and how to attain peace within and peace without - peace with oneself and be at peace with your Creator.

Arabic is a unique language and another miracle of the Quran is the basic fact that it is the only language of its age that is currently understood by more people now than at any other point in its history - i.e. the number of people who speak and understand Arabic continues to grow, whilst all other languages have faded away in terms of numbers. The Quranic Arabic is pure and unparalleled and is there for all to read, and for those who do not understand Arabic, translations are readily available.

The facts relating the Arabic language can be considered a 'miracle' by some, others will think it just an interesting fact that may be true but doesn't prove the veracity of the Quran.

For me, God says in the Quran he will protect the Quran - that says to me that the Quran won't be changed and that the means of understanding the original words will never be lost - Arabic will not go the way of Latin and Hebrew and become only a liturgical language so that only some of the people will understand the scriptures. The fact that Arabic is more understood now than before, for me is a 'miracle'... but I would hazard a guess that you are not impressed.

Anyway, I wish you well in your search for truth.

Cheers,
Shafique

Yeah ure right, my bad. The laws are clear, most of them atleast.

Arabic is pretty unique, ur right. But afaik the reason to why it remained the same and hasnt evolved as other languages is because of the koran. So ur right in a way, but its rather because the koran has been kept almost the same, which has prevented the language from evolving. Look at the bible, it has been rewritten many times with "up to date" language, the bible has adopted to the evolution of the language, while arabic has gone the other way, adopted to the language used in the koran. Which means it has reamined the same. I am actually quite impressed of arabic, just because its the only language that hasnt evolved, but that got nothing to do with Islam being the truth i think. Its just cause it hasnt been allowed to evolve because of the koran. Btw, i was told that theres almost like two different types of arabic, one that is used in daily language (thats evolved a bit) and one traditional that people learn in order to read the koran properly in religion class or wtv. I dont know if theres any truth in that though.

And since u wish me luck in finding the truth... believe it or not but thats what im trying, the reason to why ive even been reading up on islam is because i got a muslima gf n need to convert if i wanna go further with things. But it isnt goin very well though. I got some serious trouble with some things in islam. Mostly its the koran not being very peaceful all the time n peace is smthn my version of god wud preach for. Theres a lot of calls for violence, and i dont really like the way women are supposed to be treated according to the islamic god either. But the major problem for now is that the koran has changed, theres even 7 different arabic versions of it at this day, which is in contradiction with verse 15.9 and it feels like the whole concept of islam falls on that point. Theres some other stuff too, like some of the stuff Muhamed did for example. Ah, well, i shudnt be talking about those stuff in this thread i suppose.

Cheers

Isn't it that when something is "scientific" (i.e., accurate facts, methods), then you can't consider it a miracle (i.e., of divine intervention, defiance of nature/physics) and vice versa?
That's why as soon as I read the first item about the human fetus development being at first a "blood clot", and then a "chewed substance", I thought the word "scientific" shouldn't have been in the title. If it's indeed scientific then the writing should have precisely said that that a sperm from a man has fertilized a woman's egg (it's not just a blood clot!)... ...thus forming a human fetus (chewed substance... )

node88 wrote:I took a look at the second link now as well, and this is getting really ridicoulus. There is some things thats interesting to debate, but that site is a little bit to eager to claim miracles in each n every verse of the koran, theres some serious misuse of the word miracle. But since i got some time over ill comment some of them..

Reduced movement at night
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_84.html

"He splits the sky at dawn, and appoints the night as a time of stillness and the Sun and Moon as a means of reckoning. (Qur'an, 6:96)"

Whats the miracle in that? The verse is obviously using a poetic form of describing the night. Even if it was refeering to certain hormones in the body that makes people move less or wtv, its still not a verse only god cudve been the author to. Look at a sleeping person, hes not moving, doesnt require todays science to figure that out.


.

But you did not mention the same fact written about Plants and Movement at the molecular level , also , If someone try to always sleep during the daytime and stay awake all night long, let's say for 2 weeks, I am sure he will be sick or at least feel sleepy.
How can Prophet Mohammed Know the fact that movement of plants and molocules decrease at night.

uaebadoo wrote:But you did not mention the same fact written about Plants and Movement at the molecular level , also , If someone try to always sleep during the daytime and stay awake all night long, let's say for 2 weeks, I am sure he will be sick or at least feel sleepy.
How can Prophet Mohammed Know the fact that movement of plants and molocules decrease at night.

With all respect - the quran does not talk about the change of molecular structure of plants at night. The quote the website author 'He splits the sky at dawn, and appoints the night as a time of stillness and the Sun and Moon as a means of reckoning. (Qur'an, 6:96)'.

Stillness suggests the night is a time of rest and quiet and sleep 'in the still of the night'. A well established fact way before Islam even started.

When I read 6.96 I interpret it as a very poetic way of portraying the cyclic patterns of day and night. How two opposites are so contingent upon each other (yin / yang) and our a key part of a humans experience.

To be honest I think this website is farcical. I would much rather read Spiritual interpretations that relate the quran to modern times rather then trying to show its scientific basis. They have been trying to do that with the bible for many years and they never get anywhere - this was cemented when Darwin came along and saw a bigger picture.

jabbajabba wrote:

uaebadoo wrote:But you did not mention the same fact written about Plants and Movement at the molecular level , also , If someone try to always sleep during the daytime and stay awake all night long, let's say for 2 weeks, I am sure he will be sick or at least feel sleepy.
How can Prophet Mohammed Know the fact that movement of plants and molocules decrease at night.

With all respect - . The quote the website author 'He splits the sky at dawn, and appoints the night as a time of stillness and the Sun and Moon as a means of reckoning. (Qur'an, 6:96)'.

Stillness suggests the night is a time of rest and quiet and sleep 'in the still of the night'. A well established fact way before Islam even started.

When I read 6.96 I interpret it as a very poetic way of portraying the cyclic patterns of day and night. How two opposites are so contingent upon each other (yin / yang) and our a key part of a humans experience.

To be honest I think this website is farcical. I would much rather read Spiritual interpretations that relate the quran to modern times rather then trying to show its scientific basis. They have been trying to do that with the bible for many years and they never get anywhere - this was cemented when Darwin came along and saw a bigger picture.

My friend I thank u for ur reply, you r right the the quran does not talk about the change of molecular structure of plants at night, The article states simply that every body knows that at night humans rest and relax but the word in the Holly Quraan Says (No movement) or in Scentific Term static and not Dynamic, The article gives two other example , the palnts , and the Movement at the molecular level and how can any one 1400 years ago say such a fact, how did he know about Plants and molecluar level and plants photosynthesis slows down at night

quote="node88"]

Man is created from clay
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_59.html

Oh, really? Thats news to me. Obviously we have some of the same elements as clay, but we are mostly made out of water. This cant be called a miracle can it? Its rather the other way around.

This is the argument for the verse being a miracle;
"When the human body is examined today, it may be discovered that many elements present on the earth are also to be found in the body. Living tissues contain 95% carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus and sulphur, with a total of 26 different elements.91 In another verse of the Qur'an we are told:

We created man from an extract of clay. (Qur'an, 23:12)

The Arabic word "sulala," translated as "extract" in the verse, means "representative example, essence." As we have seen, the information revealed in the Qur'an 1,400 years ago confirms what modern science tells us-the fact that the same elements are employed in human creation as those found in the soil."

Yeah, we are not extraterrestrials, of course we got the same elements in our body as those that can be found on earth. Proves that we are made of clay? NO.

The elements in the body can be found in the soil, thats right. Nothing weird with that either since most of what we eat origin from vegetables that once grew in the soil, sometimes via an animal first. But is soil and clay the same thing? NO, so is this a miracle? NO.


.[/quote]


So u r saying the caly and soil are not the same , I am really amazed, ask any person what are the types of soil, he will tell u: one of them is clay soil
If I tell you this airplane or car is made out of stainless steel , would you believe me right away, I woulnt, because it could be made out of Aluminum, Composites, Tatinum. How can u tell without analyzing the material composotion, So similiarly no one could tell in the past that human body have the same compostion as the soil. Tell me PLZ what are plants made of, How about aniamls?

uaebadoo wrote:

node88 wrote:
Man is created from clay
http://www.miraclesofthequran.com/scientific_59.html

Oh, really? Thats news to me. Obviously we have some of the same elements as clay, but we are mostly made out of water. This cant be called a miracle can it? Its rather the other way around.

This is the argument for the verse being a miracle;
"When the human body is examined today, it may be discovered that many elements present on the earth are also to be found in the body. Living tissues contain 95% carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, nitrogen, phosphorus and sulphur, with a total of 26 different elements.91 In another verse of the Qur'an we are told:

We created man from an extract of clay. (Qur'an, 23:12)

The Arabic word "sulala," translated as "extract" in the verse, means "representative example, essence." As we have seen, the information revealed in the Qur'an 1,400 years ago confirms what modern science tells us-the fact that the same elements are employed in human creation as those found in the soil."

Yeah, we are not extraterrestrials, of course we got the same elements in our body as those that can be found on earth. Proves that we are made of clay? NO.

The elements in the body can be found in the soil, thats right. Nothing weird with that either since most of what we eat origin from vegetables that once grew in the soil, sometimes via an animal first. But is soil and clay the same thing? NO, so is this a miracle? NO.


.

So u r saying the caly and soil are not the same , I am really amazed, ask any person what are the types of soil, he will tell u: one of them is clay soil
If I tell you this airplane or car is made out of stainless steel , would you believe me right away, I woulnt, because it could be made out of Aluminum, Composites, Tatinum. How can u tell without analyzing the material composotion, So similiarly no one could tell in the past that human body have the same compostion as the soil. Tell me PLZ what are plants made of, How about aniamls?

In the koran it says "sticky clay", is this what plants usually grow in? Im not sure of the composition of the sticky clay the koran refers to. But using "the fact that the same elements are employed in human creation as those found in the soil" as an argument to prove the koran doesnt work. Cause it doesnt say "soil" anywhere in the koran. It says clay and sticky clay.. and in yet another place it says we are made out of nothing.

If clay is a type of soil, that still doesnt mean that all the elements in the soil can be found in clay.

We are not made out of clay. We might have some of the same elements, but even if all of them were the same, they differ at a molecular level. Theyre part of bigger molecules. Theres a reason to why we eat vegetables and animals and not clay. Cause we need other elements and substances than those found in clay. In some soil we can find almost every element we need. But soil and clay is just not the same thing no matter how much u want it to be.

If u read the text on the site u realise that they dont even make a point about it. They say what the koran says, and then they list some elements found in the body and thats it. They dont make an comparison between the elements of clay and the elements of the human body. Its pseudo science. They draw a conclusion without even presenting facts to be able to make that conclsuion. But u seem to believe in it, so i suppose they managed to fool someone atleast.

uaebadoo wrote:

jabbajabba wrote:

uaebadoo wrote:But you did not mention the same fact written about Plants and Movement at the molecular level , also , If someone try to always sleep during the daytime and stay awake all night long, let's say for 2 weeks, I am sure he will be sick or at least feel sleepy.
How can Prophet Mohammed Know the fact that movement of plants and molocules decrease at night.

With all respect - . The quote the website author 'He splits the sky at dawn, and appoints the night as a time of stillness and the Sun and Moon as a means of reckoning. (Qur'an, 6:96)'.

Stillness suggests the night is a time of rest and quiet and sleep 'in the still of the night'. A well established fact way before Islam even started.

When I read 6.96 I interpret it as a very poetic way of portraying the cyclic patterns of day and night. How two opposites are so contingent upon each other (yin / yang) and our a key part of a humans experience.

To be honest I think this website is farcical. I would much rather read Spiritual interpretations that relate the quran to modern times rather then trying to show its scientific basis. They have been trying to do that with the bible for many years and they never get anywhere - this was cemented when Darwin came along and saw a bigger picture.

My friend I thank u for ur reply, you r right the the quran does not talk about the change of molecular structure of plants at night, The article states simply that every body knows that at night humans rest and relax but the word in the Holly Quraan Says (No movement) or in Scentific Term static and not Dynamic, The article gives two other example , the palnts , and the Movement at the molecular level and how can any one 1400 years ago say such a fact, how did he know about Plants and molecluar level and plants photosynthesis slows down at night

But the koran doesnt say anything about the movement at a molecular level in plants. It just says the stillness of night and nothing else. I used "the stillness of night" in a poem i wrote when i was nine... How can a nine year old without education know such a fact? Does this mean im a prophet with divine inspiration? No, its just a poetic form of describing the night. It got nothing to do with the movements in plants. Have u ever been awake late at night u can notice that things are quiet n still.

node88 wrote:.

In the koran it says "sticky clay", is this what plants usually grow in? Im not sure of the composition of the sticky clay the koran refers to. But using "the fact that the same elements are employed in human creation as those found in the soil" as an argument to prove the koran doesnt work. Cause it doesnt say "soil" anywhere in the koran. It says clay and sticky clay.. and in yet another place it says we are made out of nothing.

If clay is a type of soil, that still doesnt mean that all the elements in the soil can be found in clay.

Again, Clay is a type of soil, so it has the same compostion as the soil as stated in the Holy Quraan

We are not made out of clay. We might have some of the same elements, but even if all of them were the same, they differ at a molecular level. Theyre part of bigger molecules. Theres a reason to why we eat vegetables and animals and not clay. Cause we need other elements and substances than those found in clay. In some soil we can find almost every element we need. But soil and clay is just not the same thing no matter how much u want it to be.

Soil and Clay are different , Does not make sense !!!!, Can you explain the differences

If u read the text on the site u realise that they dont even make a point about it. They say what the koran says, and then they list some elements found in the body and thats it. They dont make an comparison between the elements of clay and the elements of the human body. Its pseudo science. They draw a conclusion without even presenting facts to be able to make that conclsuion. But u seem to believe in it, so i suppose they managed to fool someone atleast.[/quote]

Islam and quraan dont need me or anyone to prove that they are the truth and for your information, I can assure you no one can fool me as you claimed

Watch these Unquestionable Evdients
Listen to people why they became muslims

Prof. of Mathematics (Ex-Atheist) on Accepting Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z73ohM_ ... re=related

Christian professor Converts to Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIiSe6rk ... re=related



German Scientist & his wife,clinic assistant convert 2 islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP-2IqH_ ... re=related


Scientist From Czech Republic Converts To Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK00xTkM ... re=related

British Catholic Priest Converted To ISLAM

uaebadoo wrote:

node88 wrote:.

In the koran it says "sticky clay", is this what plants usually grow in? Im not sure of the composition of the sticky clay the koran refers to. But using "the fact that the same elements are employed in human creation as those found in the soil" as an argument to prove the koran doesnt work. Cause it doesnt say "soil" anywhere in the koran. It says clay and sticky clay.. and in yet another place it says we are made out of nothing.

If clay is a type of soil, that still doesnt mean that all the elements in the soil can be found in clay.

Again, Clay is a type of soil, so it has the same compostion as the soil as stated in the Holy Quraan

We are not made out of clay. We might have some of the same elements, but even if all of them were the same, they differ at a molecular level. Theyre part of bigger molecules. Theres a reason to why we eat vegetables and animals and not clay. Cause we need other elements and substances than those found in clay. In some soil we can find almost every element we need. But soil and clay is just not the same thing no matter how much u want it to be.

Soil and Clay are different , Does not make sense !!!!, Can you explain the differences

If u read the text on the site u realise that they dont even make a point about it. They say what the koran says, and then they list some elements found in the body and thats it. They dont make an comparison between the elements of clay and the elements of the human body. Its pseudo science. They draw a conclusion without even presenting facts to be able to make that conclsuion. But u seem to believe in it, so i suppose they managed to fool someone atleast.

Islam and quraan dont need me or anyone to prove that they are the truth and I can assure you no one can fool me as you claimed and I know very well how to spin people in debates, so dont think about it

Watch these Unquestionable Evdients
Listen to people why they became muslims

Prof. of Mathematics (Ex-Atheist) on Accepting Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2z73ohM_ ... re=related

Christian professor Converts to Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIiSe6rk ... re=related



German Scientist & his wife,clinic assistant convert 2 islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uP-2IqH_ ... re=related


Scientist From Czech Republic Converts To Islam

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dK00xTkM ... re=related

British Catholic Priest Converted To ISLAM

[/quote]

and is this also said in the holy Quran? to paste links of some convert stories on u tube?
Islam may teach a person to think and live according to the book but it clearly shuts one's eyes and vision to think beyond religious boundaries.
How sad.
A book is a book... whether holy or not.. good writers words can be interpreted in many different ways.. even more so if the book is written in parables..... sometimes its a surprise to the authors to know how intelligent(or Dimwits?) are his readers..Most of the religious texts can be interepreted the way you want to read it. Hence, jihad - is a call for war for some and Jihad- call to kill ones' own ego n ill feelings for some other folks.

node88 wrote:

shafique wrote:

node88 wrote:
And since u wish me luck in finding the truth... believe it or not but thats what im trying, the reason to why ive even been reading up on islam is because i got a muslima gf n need to convert if i wanna go further with things. But it isnt goin very well though.

hey node88.... if the only reason you are planning to convert to islam is because you want to marry ur girlfriend, then dont bother... its like cutting your feet to fit in your shoes because you cant find shoes that fit your feet...

PS if you are a christian then you really dont have to bother at all... islam permits us muslims to marry christians....

SparHawk wrote:

node88 wrote:

shafique wrote:

node88 wrote:
And since u wish me luck in finding the truth... believe it or not but thats what im trying, the reason to why ive even been reading up on islam is because i got a muslima gf n need to convert if i wanna go further with things. But it isnt goin very well though.

hey node88.... if the only reason you are planning to convert to islam is because you want to marry ur girlfriend, then dont bother... its like cutting your feet to fit in your shoes because you cant find shoes that fit your feet...

PS if you are a christian then you really dont have to bother at all... islam permits us muslims to marry christians....

When it comes to inter-religious marriage, family n society matters more than the two individuals involved..

St.Lucifer wrote:

SparHawk wrote:

node88 wrote:

shafique wrote:

node88 wrote:
And since u wish me luck in finding the truth... believe it or not but thats what im trying, the reason to why ive even been reading up on islam is because i got a muslima gf n need to convert if i wanna go further with things. But it isnt goin very well though.

hey node88.... if the only reason you are planning to convert to islam is because you want to marry ur girlfriend, then dont bother... its like cutting your feet to fit in your shoes because you cant find shoes that fit your feet...

PS if you are a christian then you really dont have to bother at all... islam permits us muslims to marry christians....

When it comes to inter-religious marriage, family n society matters more than the two individuals involved..

yeah thts true... but node seems to be planning to take a plunge without taking family and society into consideration.... (i dont know to be honest... maybe his family is perfectly ok with him converting to islam so that he can marry his love..... come to think of it... it sounds to me like the most selfish reason for converting)

SparHawk wrote:

St.Lucifer wrote:

SparHawk wrote:

node88 wrote:

shafique wrote:

node88 wrote:
And since u wish me luck in finding the truth... believe it or not but thats what im trying, the reason to why ive even been reading up on islam is because i got a muslima gf n need to convert if i wanna go further with things. But it isnt goin very well though.

hey node88.... if the only reason you are planning to convert to islam is because you want to marry ur girlfriend, then dont bother... its like cutting your feet to fit in your shoes because you cant find shoes that fit your feet...

PS if you are a christian then you really dont have to bother at all... islam permits us muslims to marry christians....

When it comes to inter-religious marriage, family n society matters more than the two individuals involved..

yeah thts true... but node seems to be planning to take a plunge without taking family and society into consideration.... (i dont know to be honest... maybe his family is perfectly ok with him converting to islam so that he can marry his love..... come to think of it... it sounds to me like the most selfish reason for converting)

i think this could be a subject for a pretty gud discussion.... is it fair to your family and to your lover if you convert just for the sake of her love? is it fair to yourself?

shafique wrote:PS if you are a christian then you really dont have to bother at all... islam permits us muslims to marry christians....

I thought that was applicable only to the men as with Christianity, the religion passes down with the father. So unless the father converts to the faith ( be it Christianity or Islam) the child will not obtain the religion of the mother, therefore she is now allowed to marry.... am i wrong?

SparHawk wrote:When it comes to inter-religious marriage, family n society matters more than the two individuals involved..

Far as im concerned, those who supposedly convert for marriage are not converting at all. Its like changing from jeans and sneakers/trainers into a suit, to get into a party.

Besides what does one do if the marriage doesnt last?

RVP - the quote at the beginning of your post was not from me.

You are right - Islam permits muslim men to marry women from amongst the 'people of the book' - i.e. Jews and Christians. Muslim women must marry muslim men.

I haven't read the recent posts, but saw my name in your reply..

Cheers,
Shafique

Can you guys clear something up for me. I was talking to someone yesterday and they said that the quran states that the Sun revolves around the Earth.

As for conversion I would consider Islam above most faiths (and I mean this in all seriousness) I like the idea of the brotherhood, the discipline (prayer, fasting, hygiene) and also really like the charitable side. I just see to many loopholes for me to accept it on the whole, so I would be hypercritical to convert, perhaps if I had been born into the faith it would be different. Another point (and please don't take this as disrespectful) I think Intelligent balanced Muslim girls are real princesses. When I see a pretty girl with a headscarf I feel a twang in my heart, but not in a lustful way - its just there simple beauty radiates. I don't really like the whole cover up thing though, but that is cultural backgrounds which rises.

Oh well, maybe in my next carnation - if such thing exists.

The only faith that does interest me is quaker - that to me, in my humble opinion is the direction that religion should take. Quakers are constantly working away in the background trying to resolve wars and violence through diplomacy. They also believe that nothing should come between the relationship of man and god, as in some cases it may hold him/her back. I also really enjoyed reading of George Fox whom many consider a prophet unheard in the world.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_ ... of_Friends

The Quran does not say that the sun orbits the earth. The Quran states that both sun and moon have 'fixed' orbits.

However, being the pedant that I am, relative to the earth - the sun does orbit the earth! (It's all relative!)

Anyway, the verse in question is addressed somewhere in this thread as I remember replying to it.

As for Islam vs the philosophy of the Society of Friends (Quakers), let me assure you that there are muslim organisations who are doing the same types of charitable works as the Quakers (I would argue more) and have a more balanced philosophy to boot. However, on this point you need to see the works and experience the brotherhood to be able to compare Islam practiced by my brothers and sisters with the fellowship of the Quakers.

At the end of the day, simply pray to God and He will guide to truth.

Cheers,
Shafique

It was not meant to come across as a vs comparison type thing.

Anyways channel four had the last part of the series 'Make me a Muslim' last night, it was a really good series of programs. If you want to see more I think the whole lot can be found on youtube;

http://www.channel4.com/video/make-me-a ... epage_box2

shafique wrote:RVP - the quote at the beginning of your post was not from me.

You are right - Islam permits muslim men to marry women from amongst the 'people of the book' - i.e. Jews and Christians. Muslim women must marry muslim men.

I haven't read the recent posts, but saw my name in your reply..

Cheers,
Shafique

My Apologies, i was filtering the posts just before and thought it was you.

SparHawk wrote:

node88 wrote:

shafique wrote:

node88 wrote:
And since u wish me luck in finding the truth... believe it or not but thats what im trying, the reason to why ive even been reading up on islam is because i got a muslima gf n need to convert if i wanna go further with things. But it isnt goin very well though.

hey node88.... if the only reason you are planning to convert to islam is because you want to marry ur girlfriend, then dont bother... its like cutting your feet to fit in your shoes because you cant find shoes that fit your feet...

PS if you are a christian then you really dont have to bother at all... islam permits us muslims to marry christians....

Im not christian, im agnostic more or less. And u are wrong, since im a guy, n not muslim, im not allowed to marry a muslim girl.

U say i shudnt bother, well maybe not. I saw that someone stated that it is selfish of me, i have to disagree. U dont know a single thing about either me or my gf. My girlfriend cant marry me cause of her family, since im not muslim. And ive told her i can convert on paper if it would help, and shes fine with that solution.

Im doing this on my own n im not forced by anyone, i thought that if im gonna convert i might just as well research it n see if its something for me. Unfortunatly that doesnt seem to be the case, i am, after all, pretty satisfied with my current situation, and if i convert one day its most probably gonna be just for formal reasons.

I have come across ppl who have converted because they were in "luv" with someone and to marry them they had to change their religion.

Node are you doing it just to marry her? Because once u r a musi theres no turning back nah I am joking although u might be branded as a terroist or even an Islamic Fundamentalist again i joke i joke

But seriously if u are just converting for the heck of it i dont think u should. But if u REALLY WANT TO I suggest u read some books on Islam and even go to Sharjah where in a mosque they carry out Khutba in English and probably talk to the Imaam there just in case u have some questions we cant help u with .

THe mosque is on Kasba Canal in Shj and they carry out Khutabas in English wouldnt hurt a fly to go and see whats it all about .

edit - wrong thread

It is characteristic of the Quranic style that it substitutes mild or vague words of expressions for harsh and blunt ones. 'From between the loins and the breast-bones' is one of such euphemisms used by the Quran. The verse may signify that man is born of the water that comes out of the loins of his father and is fed by the breast of his mother. The fact that man has been created from a fluid which gushes forth and then falls may signify that he has been endowed with great natural faculties to make rapid progress but he is also likely to fall to the lowest depths of degradation, if he does not make proper use of those God-given powers. The verse signifies that man's spiritual development is subject to alternate periods of progression and retrogression, like the seminal fluid that gushes forth and then falls.

Where's the link to your source?

"It is characteristic of the Quranic style that it substitutes mild or vague words of expressions for harsh and blunt ones.", so basically your explanation acknowledges the verse is technically incorrect but because of the stylistic nature of the Koran these inaccuracies should be ignored? I also like how the commentary is saying the verse 'may' refer to this or that. I guess your Alislam.com author doesn't understand what the verse says or means either. Perhaps we should wait to find one who does know what the verse is talking about?

Now how eh has become so desperate he's gone digging up old dead threads.

It is characteristic of the Quranic style that it substitutes mild or vague words of expressions for harsh and blunt ones.

In other words, 'the Koran is incorrect but we need to make excuses so we don't have to admit it'.

There's yet another epic failure of comprehension on the part of the young loon. He cuts and pastes, but he can't read what he pastes!

Never mind, he obviously needs to buy time to come up with a credible explanation for the talking donkeys he believes in!

Cheers,
Shafique