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I am sure you're all aware about the proposed "3+3" residency cap on unskilled workers.

Good thing is that some business groups refuse to welcome this proposal. Since most of DFers are expats, what's your thought about this issue?






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PS. If someone made a thread about the same topic, i am glad to have this thread locked with re-direction. Thanks.

SCY wrote:I am sure you're all aware about the proposed "3+3" residency cap on unskilled workers.

Good thing is that some business groups refuse to welcome this proposal. Since most of DFers are expats, what's your thought about this issue?

I saw it in the paper but was unmoved by it. It will only hurt the GCC in the long term, as such protectionist policies always do.

This does not make any sense at all, why would you spend all the money to recruit, train, promote etc., and then throw it all away and start again.

sage & onion wrote:This does not make any sense at all, why would you spend all the money to recruit, train, promote etc., and then throw it all away and start again.

Read 'unskilled'.

6 years is a long time for unskilled workers, and before people start criticising the UAE, although I think it's a long term problem, try immigrating to the USA, UK or Australia as an unskilled worker.

^ian^ wrote:

sage & onion wrote:This does not make any sense at all, why would you spend all the money to recruit, train, promote etc., and then throw it all away and start again.

Read 'unskilled'.

6 years is a long time for unskilled workers, and before people start criticising the UAE, although I think it's a long term problem, try immigrating to the USA, UK or Australia as an unskilled worker.

i was gonna say the same. replacing smbody once in 6 years is not smthing a company should not be able to afford.
i did not come to dubai for its "glamour" in the 1st place, but i never thought ill find this many totally uneducated, uncivilised, un etc...etc ppl. dont mean to offend anybody, but for a city that demands that much attention and recognition from the world like dubai does, this place is full of ppl who dont only live like animals because they are being kept like some, they live in this misery because they dont know/want any better.
and if restricting the time they can spend here is the 1st step towards cleaning up this place, than so be it.

raidah wrote:

^ian^ wrote:

sage & onion wrote:This does not make any sense at all, why would you spend all the money to recruit, train, promote etc., and then throw it all away and start again.

Read 'unskilled'.

6 years is a long time for unskilled workers, and before people start criticising the UAE, although I think it's a long term problem, try immigrating to the USA, UK or Australia as an unskilled worker.

i was gonna say the same. replacing smbody once in 6 years is not smthing a company should not be able to afford.
i did not come to dubai for its "glamour" in the 1st place, but i never thought ill find this many totally uneducated, uncivilised, un etc...etc ppl. dont mean to offend anybody, but for a city that demands that much attention and recognition from the world like dubai does, this place is full of ppl who dont only live like animals because they are being kept like some, they live in this misery because they dont know/want any better.
and if restricting the time they can spend here is the 1st step towards cleaning up this place, than so be it.

How about this novel idea: instead of disposing of people after they have been used (as slaves practically) for 6 years, how about if these people are treated decently (not allowed to be kept or treated like animals). It is not not like the problem will go away after 6 years. They will simply be replaced by a new batch of unskilled works.

As Ian mentioned, the reason for kicking this people out after a short period of time (6 years) is to avoid the situation where hundreds of thousands of unskilled workers would have lived here for 20 years to remain as "slaves" and live in squalor. The international criticism and pressure would be quite high, etc.

u know how i call dubai? the modern ancient egypt. it took me time to get used to the site of skeleton looking ppl being treated like breathing tools. and i still cant ignore them for my own sake. so my criticism is not against them. those who live a s.h.it life here, come from a background with the same degree or even worse s.h.it. how could u expect them to know any better...
what im saying is that maybe, just maybe the local goverment is finally aknowledging the mistake they made in the 1st place and trying to make some unsure steps towards rectifying them. and make no mistake, if thats the case, i dont beleive for a moment its because suddenly they started to care for those poor devils. just that its becoming more and more obvious to the outside world that dubai is not all glass buildings, 5 star hotels and gold. so bottom line, the image of these ppl is not exactly helping the tourism

u think it was a smart idea filling up the place with ppl with no qualification, many times 0 knowledge of english and charging them with the buildings that are supposed to attract millions? in other parts of the world these buildings take years to be ready and for a reason. one is that they are being done properly, the other is that ppl who work on them are ppl with lives, families, etc. here construction workers are slaves like u said urself who cost next to nothing. for dubai is quick money(saving) and quick show off.
all fine all good, as long as ur outside dubai u might wanna think this city is a wonder of the world. hey, u might even continue beliving the same if u come as a tourist for a week or 2 and have a selective vision that allows you to ignore the construction sites when u make the tour of the city. but if u live here... i doubt i have to explain any further.

so once again, if reducing the years of employment of unskilled workers is a 1st step, an attempt to change the current situation, than by all means they should take it.

and again, im not saying ur wrong, or im right. its just an opinion i made based on what i learned about dubai being outside and what ive experinced in the past one year since i moved here.

^ian^ wrote:

sage & onion wrote:This does not make any sense at all, why would you spend all the money to recruit, train, promote etc., and then throw it all away and start again.

Read 'unskilled'.

6 years is a long time for unskilled workers, and before people start criticising the UAE, although I think it's a long term problem, try immigrating to the USA, UK or Australia as an unskilled worker.

The point is after 6 years many of them are not "unskilled" anymore, it just doesn't make any sense at all. You should also be aware that not all of them are treated badly, that's mostly the people you read about in the newspapers, many companies treat their people fairly, pay them properly and promptly and these people would rather stay here and continue to support families back home. This is never the right thing to do, the only thing that will eventually happen is that costs will again rise across the board. And of coarse the people that profit off the recruitment of labour are now rubbing their hands as they can see a repeat every 6 years.

sage & onion wrote:The point is after 6 years many of them are not "unskilled" anymore, it just doesn't make any sense at all.

You mean they went to university and achieved a degree whilst they were here? That being the case, they are no longer classed as 'unskilled'.

If they haven't achieved a higher education then they are most likely doing manual or simple labour, and sorry to say, but yes they are easily replaced. Not a pleasant situation I agree, but a cold reality.

You should also be aware that not all of them are treated badly, that's mostly the people you read about in the newspapers, many companies treat their people fairly, pay them properly and promptly and these people would rather stay here and continue to support families back home.

Many people would like to live in the USA, UK or Australia, but are unskilled and therefore cannot immigrate. It's the same the world round. You could argue the UAE affords them an opportunity to make more than they could back home, providing them with opportunities perhaps for their next generation to become skilled.

6 years is better than zero.

This is never the right thing to do, the only thing that will eventually happen is that costs will again rise across the board. And of coarse the people that profit off the recruitment of labour are now rubbing their hands as they can see a repeat every 6 years.

I think it's hard to point out the profit motive, I believe it's more of a cultural motive. Don't get me started on the cultural aspect, you can't have your cake and eat it too, I think if the GCC countries want the splendour that is investment and tourism $$$, then they need to accept their culture is going to change.

The idea is clearly that they do not want these people becoming their culture.

i don't blame the uae for this. it is their right and demographically it is only trying to protect its indigeneous culture and mores. it is probably too late already given the high no. of ex pats here who remain long-term...

see what long term immigration policies encouraging low/no skilled workers has done to the american southwest... i'm all for skilled/short-term immigration but that doesn't necessarily translate into a sustainable future-- either for the host country or the immigrants

sometimes i think the uae is in danger of becoming a fiji- where immigrants now outnumber the original occupants-- and suffering all the dislocation that has caused...

it may not be "fair" but what does that mean anyway? that concept only exists in a post-modern West that thinks it can afford such fantasies... and it can't either, by the way

this is a way more complex issue than having them here for 6 years or more, or would the uae want them as part of their culture or not. the thing is te uae/dubai has cooked the dish by bringing the millions of ppl here, now they have to eat it. the only way they could turn the situation around and even so only to a certain degree, if they would start sending back home ppl asap without the possibility to return. which of course they cannot afford because the place would remain without any manpower to go on with the contrustions and other "low" works.

history is repeating itself again and again. the mistake the local government has made was thinking only on the short term profit instead of reflecting on how would these masses affect the country/city on the different levels on the long term.

how many locals are there in the uae? not too many, specially compared to the number of expats. now there are several factors that will make/force local ppl to start mingling with other nationalities. one is simply the curiosity and the possibility to do it, regardless of traditions and restrictions from the family. the other, which is beyond their control, genetics. in europe back in the 70s i beleive one of the northern countries started a huge campaign to attract ppl from abroad, specially from southern ones. why? bacause before they were an enclosed society, a small one and since they were mixing among themselves over and over, genetically they started to weaken. they were simply forced to do smthing about it.

same will happen here.
what Ian also pointed out that locals dont want these ppor ppl to be part of the culture...it already started to be part of the culture. nobody speaks here pure english, arabic, hindi, whatever. the cuisines have some similarities, so they are mixing them. music, the same.

the largest majority here as we all know are the indians. dont know thou how many are aware, that they have (to be accurate they only used to have) maybe the most complex, rich, colorful, profound etc, etc...culture that u can think of. but the problem is, the vast majority of them bring nothing from this culture. so why would anybody wanna mingle with them?

anyways, i think its only a matter of time till we wont be able to tell who is what or what language is he speaking.

raidah you are mistaken in your assumptions for every person they send back .. 10 others will be waiting to replace him. The UAE is surrounded by countries that has literally millions of people who are readily available as cheap unskilled labor.

the 6 year rule is just being put as Sydneysider put to protect the demographics of the country and for example in 100 years not have the indian culture (just an example) take over the country. If you keep sending people away and bringing new ones there effect on the local culture will be much less than when you for example spend 40 years with the same driver. I know it might sound messed up but thats what how its being looked at.

Now the long term effects of it is really beyond me, and i hope they study it carefully. But for example in the US even *skilled* immigrants cannot stay in the country for more than 6 years, unless they are deemed irreplaceable then the company has to prove it and apply for a permanent residency for them.

MaaaD wrote:raidah you are mistaken in your assumptions for every person they send back .. 10 others will be waiting to replace him. The UAE is surrounded by countries that has literally millions of people who are readily available as cheap unskilled labor.

the 6 year rule is just being put as Sydneysider put to protect the demographics of the country and for example in 100 years not have the indian culture (just an example) take over the country. If you keep sending people away and bringing new ones there effect on the local culture will be much less than when you for example spend 40 years with the same driver. I know it might sound messed up but thats what how its being looked at.

Now the long term effects of it is really beyond me, and i hope they study it carefully. But for example in the US even *skilled* immigrants cannot stay in the country for more than 6 years, unless they are deemed irreplaceable then the company has to prove it and apply for a permanent residency for them.

agree

MaaaD wrote:raidah you are mistaken in your assumptions for every person they send back .. 10 others will be waiting to replace him. The UAE is surrounded by countries that has literally millions of people who are readily available as cheap unskilled labor.

the 6 year rule is just being put as Sydneysider put to protect the demographics of the country and for example in 100 years not have the indian culture (just an example) take over the country. If you keep sending people away and bringing new ones there effect on the local culture will be much less than when you for example spend 40 years with the same driver. I know it might sound messed up but thats what how its being looked at.

Now the long term effects of it is really beyond me, and i hope they study it carefully. But for example in the US even *skilled* immigrants cannot stay in the country for more than 6 years, unless they are deemed irreplaceable then the company has to prove it and apply for a permanent residency for them.

No one I ever knew had to leave USA after 6 years.

gtmash wrote:No one I ever knew had to leave USA after 6 years.

umm okay and your point is ?

Personally I feel it’s an odd rule, they already have a country-wise labour quota system in place that regulates the number of employees that you are able to recruit from a particular country; they also regularly change the demographics of this quota system, favouring labour from one country over another.

To have 100 labours from India (and I use this purely as an example), let them work for 6 years and then replace them with another 100 from India again will still have an influence on the culture, you don’t simply wipe clean the cultural “rub-off” by replacing the people with a new batch.

I think it may have more to do with the amount of income it will generate internally for local government. The rough expat demographics are in the UAE are in the region of 1 skilled (degree holder) for every 5 unskilled labour.

I also hate the fact of seeing people exploited, although this must be put in clear context; as GT says there are 10 people in a queue to replace one person who no longer wants to work in the UAE (or GCC for that matter). The sad fact is, however abominable the conditions may seem to us they are sometimes immensely better than what these people leave behind them, and it also provides them as well as their extended families with a source of revenue which they would otherwise not have at all!

Correct me if I am wrong, but the instigators of this legislation for the GCC countries is the Bahrainis?

I do agree the culture will rub off, or perhaps even create a new culture of 'you have 6 years to earn all you can' which could lead to increased crime and desperation amongst these individuals. The 6 year thing won't stop it, it might alter it, but it won't stop it.

But this is not new... this is not solely to the UAE.

Try getting a permit to work 'at all' in a western country with no skills... it won't happen.

Guys one more point here .. As the costs of bringing in labor from south asia keeps increasing it might become more econmical for businesses in this country to recruit non skilled Labor from Bahrain and Oman instead of India.

If you have ever been to Bahrain or Oman you will know what i mean where your taxi driver, hotel porter, petrol station attendant are all local.

Maaad, I actually think that you are on to some thing there.

It would not only be a source of revenue for both of those countries but, the developed skill-sets would still remain in the region once the labour had finally been re-patriated, contributing to the growth of the country and then region indirectly

within the definition of "unskilled" would this include taxi drivers, hotel staff etc etc or is it defined to "construction labourers"?

^ian^ wrote:

sage & onion wrote:The point is after 6 years many of them are not "unskilled" anymore, it just doesn't make any sense at all.

You mean they went to university and achieved a degree whilst they were here? That being the case, they are no longer classed as 'unskilled'.

If they haven't achieved a higher education then they are most likely doing manual or simple labour, and sorry to say, but yes they are easily replaced. Not a pleasant situation I agree, but a cold reality.

You should also be aware that not all of them are treated badly, that's mostly the people you read about in the newspapers, many companies treat their people fairly, pay them properly and promptly and these people would rather stay here and continue to support families back home.

Many people would like to live in the USA, UK or Australia, but are unskilled and therefore cannot immigrate. It's the same the world round. You could argue the UAE affords them an opportunity to make more than they could back home, providing them with opportunities perhaps for their next generation to become skilled.

6 years is better than zero.

This is never the right thing to do, the only thing that will eventually happen is that costs will again rise across the board. And of coarse the people that profit off the recruitment of labour are now rubbing their hands as they can see a repeat every 6 years.

I think it's hard to point out the profit motive, I believe it's more of a cultural motive. Don't get me started on the cultural aspect, you can't have your cake and eat it too, I think if the GCC countries want the splendour that is investment and tourism $$$, then they need to accept their culture is going to change.

The idea is clearly that they do not want these people becoming their culture.

Listen fool, and thats what you are, if you cannot understand that after 6 years of work an unskilled person may have learned something, and would then become an asset to the company that he/she works for. Following this he would then be a kingpin in helpinmg his/her family in the home country. This place we call Dubai cannot be compared to Australia / USA / Europe so don't even bother to compare.

MaaaD wrote:

gtmash wrote:No one I ever knew had to leave USA after 6 years.

umm okay and your point is ?

That you are MaaaD.

sage & onion wrote:Listen fool, and thats what you are, if you cannot understand that after 6 years of work an unskilled person may have learned something, and would then become an asset to the company that he/she works for. Following this he would then be a kingpin in helpinmg his/her family in the home country. This place we call Dubai cannot be compared to Australia / USA / Europe so don't even bother to compare.

*sigh* it's about definitions Sage you dipshit. I am not in charge of the definition, but it is commonly accepted that:

Unskilled = no formal qualifications.

If this will be implemented, would this mean even those "skilled" workers but holding "unskilled" visa will be included in 3+3 residency cap? Or how about the "unskilled" holding a visa for "skilled"??????

I think this is challenging on the government's part.

MaaaD wrote:Guys one more point here .. As the costs of bringing in labor from south asia keeps increasing it might become more econmical for businesses in this country to recruit non skilled Labor from Bahrain and Oman instead of India.

If you have ever been to Bahrain or Oman you will know what i mean where your taxi driver, hotel porter, petrol station attendant are all local.

Well ur points doesnt even make sense , sending those workers back after 6 yrs, those workers must have adopted some of emirati culture, but bringing new workers in will bring with them same new unaffected culture. It is upto emiratis themselves to decide whether they should be affected by certain stuffs eventhough I see emirati guys adopting western stuffs like biker culture , starbucks etc and women wearing bebe shirts and jeans under veil, it's upto them not the stupid government control which will affect it.


Secondly they dont have enough emiratis like oman and bahrain to carry on those menial tasks.

Thirdly with improvement of economy in south asia and increase of cost of living in dubai, few ppl would decide to come here in 5-6 yrs.

Fourthly ian stop comparing uae to western countries. Western countries dont allow unskilled workers for fear they may stay there illegally as refugees and apply for immigration due to relxed immigration rules in most western countries. Here you have no chance to become a national if u r male.


In my opinion government should leave it as is and control the labour according to supply and demand. Instead they should try to increase standards of these labours by making minimum wage, punishing those fradulent companies and making cheap residence for them (which I recently heard they were doing) instead spending billions on world's most ____ projects