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Debate in Australia This is true and can be checked at:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/australia.asp

Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks.
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A day after a group of mainstream Muslim leaders pledged loyalty to Australia and her Queen at a special meeting with Prime Minister John Howard, he and his Ministers made it clear that extremists would face a crackdown. Treasurer Peter Costello, seen as heir apparent to Howard, hinted that some radical clerics could be asked to leave the country if they did not accept that Australia was a secular state, and its laws were made by parliament. "If those are not your values, if you want a country which has Sharia law or a theocratic state, then Australia is not for you", he said on National Television.
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"I'd be saying to clerics who are teaching that there are two laws governing people in Australia : one the Australian law and another Islamic law that is false. If you can't agree with parliamentary law, independent courts, democracy, and would prefer Sharia law and have the opportunity to go to another country, which practices it, perhaps, then, that's a better option", Costello said.
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Asked whether he meant radical clerics would be forced to leave, he said those with dual citizenship could possibly be asked to move to the other country. Education Minister Brendan Nelson later told reporters that Muslims who did not want to accept local values should "clear off. Basically people who don't want to be Australians, and who don't want, to live by Australian values and understand them, well then, they can basically clear off", he said.
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Separately, Howard angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques.
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Quote: "IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians."
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"However, the dust from the attacks had barely settled when the 'politically correct' crowd began complaining about the possibility that our patriotism was offending others. I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to Australia ." "However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand." "This idea of Australia being a multi-cultural community has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. And as Australians, we have our own culture, our own society, our own language and our own lifestyle."
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"This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom"
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"We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society .. Learn the language!"
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"Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."
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"We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us."
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"If the Southern Cross offends you, or you don't like "A Fair Go", then you should seriously consider a move to another part of this planet. We are happy with our culture and have no desire to change, and we really don't care how you did things where you came from. By all means, keep your culture, but do not force it on others.
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"This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and O UR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom,
'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'."
<> "If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted."
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Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, American citizens will find the backbone to start speaking and voicing the same truths !
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<> If you agree please SEND THIS TO EVERYBODY YOU KNOW!

Those who dont watch cricket , shuld leave the Australia

So much for the freedom and democracy! well it's coming from Australians, no surprise there.

Personally I think John Howard is absolutely correct!

If you went to live in Saudi, you'd be made to live by the rules and regulations there under Islamic law, so why should other countries be any different? They're protecting their way of life and culture, why should other people moving to another country impose their ways of life on the locals!

More countries should take the Australian stance, then there wouldn't be so many problems. This is the reason why most Europeans are going to Oz now, they're tired of their own countries being taken over.

I and many will agree with you in private Chocs, but no one here (UK) would have the balls say this in public.

You know me Arnie, never afraid to say it like it is. That's half the problem with the world today, people lack the balls to stand up and say what they really feel. The statistics over the number of people leaving the country every year say it all.

choko baby why u not like pakis & indians?

daddy arnie likes that ur racist like him . i will becum racist too so u like me better.

the britsh umpire invade so many countries . it did not care for india way of life or new pakistan way of life so it helped break countries , so many many died. now payback time baby. we invade britain now like britain ivaded us .

Hello HP!

And where in any of the posts were Pakistanis or Indiand mentioned?

Actually several of my best friends are Indian. Nothing to do with it. It's to do with culture, not the colour of your skin.

I agree with chocs...live by the rules of the country you are in.

bushra21 wrote:I agree with chocs...live by the rules of the country you are in.

The problem is Bushy is that the UK has lost its way to the Political Correctness Brigade - Chocs is totally correct and its difficult to describe what we mean without it sounding racist.

Put it this way DXB/UAE has it spot on

1/ You are priviledged to come here to work

2/ You work your balls off IF we let you in

3/ If you dont, then we deport you or if you dont like it fcuk off

Sorted - UK Gov take note

i know arnie...thats why i only responded by saying i agree...my original response would have, most likely, caused a lot of problems with some.

good its about time they threw out those lebenese wog scum out

choko who else wer u talkin about if not pakis & indians? u think we're all dumb ? u might be sum dumb but not too much dum. u dont need to say it for us to know it. its very funny when english person say they not racist becus they have indian freind , only raceist say dis.

we shuld all be like english ppl in their cuntry. girls shuld have baby at 14 that they dont know who the daddy is . english guys go to lituania , & cypris they get drunk & break things . we shuld act like them to.

we r acting like british . british invade our countrys & british & ausi invade iraq so now we invade their cuntrys . no problem. why now complain ?

Well the original post is about Muslims in Australia, was there ever any mention of nationalities?- er no!

The UK's biggest problem is now the EU is open all the people from the rest of Europe line-up to try and get in. The place is a disaster, I'll never go back there.

Arnie is correct when he says the UAE has it right, you come here you work by our rules, if you don't like it or you screw up, you're out. Autralia is only doing the same. But of course because it's a 'westernised' country, they become the baddies. Well BOOOOOOO to the morons that think that!

Well I think what australians decide to do wid their country is upto them...
Who dares to teach a neighbour how to run his house?.. its not even a topic to discuss..

having said that.. I guess its not with the policies but with the arrogance aussies show when dealing with such issues that make them look more racist than they actually could b..

Chocoholic wrote::roll: Well the original post is about Muslims in Australia, was there ever any mention of nationalities?- er no!

The UK's biggest problem is now the EU is open all the people from the rest of Europe line-up to try and get in. The place is a disaster, I'll never go back there.

Arnie is correct when he says the UAE has it right, you come here you work by our rules, if you don't like it or you screw up, you're out. Autralia is only doing the same. But of course because it's a 'westernised' country, they become the baddies. Well BOOOOOOO to the morons that think that!

Totally agree with you Chocoholic!

That's why I am so keen to leave the Uk and get to Dubai!

Chocoholic wrote::roll: Well the original post is about Muslims in Australia, was there ever any mention of nationalities?- er no!

The UK's biggest problem is now the EU is open all the people from the rest of Europe line-up to try and get in. The place is a disaster, I'll never go back there.

Arnie is correct when he says the UAE has it right, you come here you work by our rules, if you don't like it or you screw up, you're out. Autralia is only doing the same. But of course because it's a 'westernised' country, they become the baddies. Well BOOOOOOO to the morons that think that!

Totally agree with you Chocoholic!

That's why I am so keen to leave the Uk and get to Dubai!

St. L, I don't think it's arrogance. I just think people see it as that because they actually have the balls to stand up and say it like it is. Everyone else is cowardly when it comes to that.

If more people actually had the guts to get up off their lazy backsides and say it like it is or voice their opinion, then half the problems in this world, just simply wouldn't exist. It's all the PC rubbish and tippy toeing around trying not to offend anyone that causes problems.

You see me? Do I care? No! If I have an opinion on something then I have no problem voicing it. People should be more honest.

Chocoholic wrote:St. L, I don't think it's arrogance. I just think people see it as that because they actually have the balls to stand up and say it like it is. Everyone else is cowardly when it comes to that.

If more people actually had the guts to get up off their lazy backsides and say it like it is or voice their opinion, then half the problems in this world, just simply wouldn't exist. It's all the PC rubbish and tippy toeing around trying not to offend anyone that causes problems.

You see me? Do I care? No! If I have an opinion on something then I have no problem voicing it. People should be more honest.

Chocs I really dont agree with you. For the reasons that is so much visible in the place where I come from.

Some people may speak soft, but it really doesnt make them less stronger. I definitely appreciate honesty.. but to put things across i would for sure prefer a polished way. (Which wasnt my way.. but trained to be)

We are not speaking about an individual voicing his openion here, but a nation making its stands on issues that could easily be denigrating to a lot of people. These issues have much more impact than a half wit who doesnt like his neighbour calls him and shouts y the #uck is your paper boy crossing my lawns to deliver u the news paper..

I didnt mean PC shite either but, sometimes its better to make others understand than to shout out what you feel. Look into the history, any country wouldnt've survived without people coming in from other places and settling in. Now, there are political, religious stuff involved in it. If you say your contry doesnt believe in tolerance then in my opinion have no rights to deal with any other country for anything. no business, economic, humanitarian ties at all..

But we all know that todays world isnt like that. Sometimes its that thin line of difference between making people realize or shouting at them that makes the whole difference.... from conflicts in games to wars. On that perspective, what a world it would've been.. Do u think all countries are self sufficient? (is there a single country) or if they eventually get self suffient and arrogant where people live to the rule of the country... do u think thats gonna be progressive? with close to half of the world under sharia, half under other rules and some with none..??? Can see a war declaration on a monthly basis.. that is going back to pre historic ages to me..

Forget abt big things.. I've always believed its not a prerogative of an educated/powerful/wealthy to bully around and be arrogant. Yes there should be rules, their own believes that should be imparted but not slapped on ignorant..

Dude, I didn't say anyone has to shout at anyone else or do it in a forceful way. But some people lack any kind of guts to say anything at all.

Chocoholic wrote:Dude, I didn't say anyone has to shout at anyone else or do it in a forceful way. But some people lack any kind of guts to say anything at all.

well I certainly over heard it.. in that case u misread my previous post. I'm all for voicing ones opinion.. and sheesh.. u curtailed it with just 2 lines.. i wrote an entire page... no good ..

Good on them australians! That policy really makes sense and is just fair. But I guess they're not afraid of retaliations of some sort? you know.....

BOOM!!!

Way too much is being read into this.
All that the Australian government did was to deny a request that Sharia Law be implemented into Australian law.
There is nothing radical about the Australian decision, apart from the fact that it wasn't taken very seriously.
Although this may have been due to the fact that the guy making the request had previously compared scantily clad woman being raped by men, to meat in the butcher shop window being taken by a dog.
When a few Australians called for him to be deported, he then said that he had more rights to be in Australia than the white Australians because he had not arrived on a convict ship.

benwj wrote:Way too much is being read into this.
All that the Australian government did was to deny a request that Sharia Law be implemented into Australian law.
There is nothing radical about the Australian decision, apart from the fact that it wasn't taken very seriously.
Although this may have been due to the fact that the guy making the request had previously compared scantily clad woman being raped by men, to meat in the butcher shop window being taken by a dog.
When a few Australians called for him to be deported, he then said that he had more rights to be in Australia than the white Australians because he had not arrived on a convict ship.

Benwj,

I agree with what you are saying.

People will often take things out of context to make it a pretext for their own agenda.
Howard has made it clear that upon entering Australia you abide by the law of the land. Same as any other country including UAE.

If i started making waves regarding Muslims in a Middle Eastern Country i am sure i would be shown the door quick smart.
Yet, we have had clerics living in Australia going overseas calling all Muslems for Jihad.

Now, why shouldn't a person who does such things be deported from Australia?
Same as other countries.
Get rid of the troublemakers.

Again, more recently the Howard government has introduced the Citizenship Test.
IMO, if a person from another country wants citizenship, then why shouldn't they have some knowledge of the history including being able to speak English?

Yet we have people come out and say its showing predudism to minorities.

Now, if i was to live in UAE and sought citizenship, wouldn't it be reasonable to expect for me to know and understand both language and culture?

Maybe i am a naive "Ozzy" who believes in fairness and equal opportunity for all.

Yet, the most degenerated and evil vocabulary of our modern era "Politically Correct" is watering down our structure and society to prevent and shame people from an opinion.

I give John Howard credit where its due that he is prepared to speak up for Australia's heritage. More countries should do the same.

Not with arrogance.

But with a passion of Nationalism.

Just my opinion.

Cheers markco2

I am a new member and I would like to comment on this thread. What choco has said is absolutely correct and bushra did concur as well. However indians and pakis will have a different opinion. I would say its a matter of privilege i.e. ecomomics play a major role here. People from other countries flock dubai and australlia in search of better life and future for their kids. You wont find the reverse happening to the same extent.

But I have a question to ask: Isnt it the case from the beginning of time, I mean every nation has sort of done it in different times, its all game of might is right? british invaded what is now called australlia and took over the aborginal land, aussie govt did not exist at that time, and then in time aussies flourish as a nation and so forth. If aborginies were powerful at that time, you would a different scenario today like that of south africa to some extent.
Nations capture foreign land and then enforce their way of living upon the natives , sometimes to the extent that people completely forgot about the natives and the invadors behave as if they are clean from the beggining, and they do not have a single blood on their hands. No offence but I just thought of sharing my point from a different angle. I were to migrare to australlia today, I would surely respect their culture.

Cheers

Hi Daniyaal,

It is true that the British took over what we now know as Australia.

Remember we are talking about 230 years ago where Aboriginals were classified as primitive natives. Rightly or wrongly, if the British had not seized the land then the Dutch or someone else would have.
How they were treated during that time leaves alot to be desired.

Same goes with the Maoris of New Zealand, the Indians in the US.

We can't turn back the hands of time.

However, we can protect what we do have today and respect other cultures.

That, i believe most Ozzies do respect the Aboriginal Culture as well as others.

Unfortunately, its taken 200 years of Westernisation to finally come to terms with it.

Cheers markco2

This reminds me of a quote from an American colleague of mine when I visited the US over the summer:

'I wonder what it would be like if the (American) Indians had a 'Patriot Act', 'Homeland Security' and Immigration laws'.

Cheers,
Shafique

i am an expat who has lived in australia for many years (before coming to dubai to work some tme ago)

there is not a more hospitble, friendly, accepting people or culture on the planet. they are incredibly opimistic, easy going and kind to autralians and non-australians alike, of all colours, creeds and belief systems. and when i say australians, i include those who happen to observe islam-- and there are many whom i have personally been connected to (hired, befriended, etc)

what you are seeing now is a growing awareness by many there of separatism within australian society-- enclaves of self-described muslims who are either vocal about their wish to see sharia law imposed in Oz or the greater no. of fellow travelers who are noticeably silent and encouraging when such provocative suggestions are made (to be fair, NOT the majority by a long shot)

they feel their generousity of spirit is being stretched and tested-- that they are being taken for patsies-- and they are getting sick of it. imagine a similar PUBLIC demand on the part of a westerner for official inclusion of christianity in the laws of the land or the ending of sharia law in favour of separation of mosque and state here in dubai. that can't happen here-- it can in australia.

i came to dubai with the understanding that i was a guest. i came to earn a living, not to become part of the long-term society here. i'm a mercenary; i admit it. i respect the customs and traditions of my hosts. i appreciate the opportunity i have been given to live and work here. i don't demand dubai change for me.

and some day soon i will return to australia, a country and people i love dearly. it is a special place and i only hope that those who have spoken harshly of her that they one day have the opportunity to visit and learn what i have about her-- that australia is truly a blessed place in the world we live in

Hi Sydneysider,

Well said.

You make some very valid points.

Considering i am looking at relocating from Oz to Dubai, i would not be able to get the same job opportunity in Australia. I am not talking about money either. I suppose expats go to Dubai for many reasons.

Just like you Sydneysider, my field is limited.
I am looking forward to blending in with society and hopefully make some friends with some of the locals whilst i am there.

Cheers markco2

The whole thing has blown out of proportion as it came from a female hating stark raving mad cleric. What concerns me is that a small bunch of nutters voice an extreme principle which can end up casting a net over all - and this is where policitcal correctness does not work as feelings are festered into deep seated resentment, which is never good for anyone.

But I always laugh when I here stories like this - I mean c'mon can you imagine trying to enforce sharia law on a group of sheep sheering, larger loving Aussie country lads. That is a job I would not want for love or money.

The same goes for the UK. Try taking away their bacon sandwiches and closing the pubs and there will be a full revolution in place by the morning.

Also the argument about Australia being a land which was once colonised does not wash. Show me one country (with perhaps Bhutan as an exeception) which has not been invaded by some other country and you won't be able to count them on more then one hand. You have Romans, The British Empire, The Ottomans, The Persians, The Americans - the list goes on.

By the way I would love to come to Australia, if they will have me - I also would not want to change a thing. I mean c'mon you guys gave us Kyle [drools on keyboard]