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I have been offered a great job there, signed the offer, and sent in the required documents for visa arrangements. I was just asked if I had a Bachelor's degree, as per some rule they cannot give a "management tag" to anyone below a bachelor's degree. They said it was just for the course of law and that they can show it as a technician. I have a college diploma and never represented that I did have a degree, BTW. My position is in upper management. Does this matter at all? Thanks for your help!

dubaidog wrote:I have been offered a great job there, signed the offer, and sent in the required documents for visa arrangements. I was just asked if I had a Bachelor's degree, as per some rule they cannot give a "management tag" to anyone below a bachelor's degree. They said it was just for the course of law and that they can show it as a technician. I have a college diploma and never represented that I did have a degree, BTW. My position is in upper management. Does this matter at all? Thanks for your help!

What you have been told is basically true, however it only affects the title that is entered on your Visa application and official Contract. For instance you could be stated as; "Archives Clerk" but still hold the post of Manager, it's more or less a formality and it is done to stop non-qualified people from entering the job market, however no allowance is made for experience.

Hey Sage, thanks for the info. As per usual I am freaking out. I have signed the offer and we are all good to go. Does this change of title affect anything with my contract or the agreement we reached? Essentially, can I get screwed in any way? Thanks again for your input. Let me know if it is a formality as they stated. I guess now that I signed, I cannot change anything anyway!

Howdy Sage, I should also like to point out that under the previous labour category ban, someone with a position title "manager" could not be banned (subject to other conditions), while a "technician" could be...

Interestingly enough the law governing this is still in the federal labour law! Dubai just chooses to make an exception to it....

I’ve never heard of the issue relating to degree vs. diplomas with reference to management positions though; I hold a diploma and a higher diploma, but still had “manager” stamped on my labour card???

I do seem to remember though that there are also small, subtle issues regarding “manager” being printed on your business can labour cards … government/ ministerial/ police officials seem to give you more leeway if you are a “manager” as opposed to being “senior technician” for instance.

It was a huge issue for staff from the Indian sub-continent (no disrespect intended) what their title on their business card was. It’s obviously some kind of status symbol and very important to them. I remember having a client who was the chairman of a company, he insisted that every one address him as “Mr Chairman” … it was quiet a laugh I thought (and he was fairly arrogant toss in any case)…

Hey thanks DBXSOUL. Is this something taht I should persue, this "manager tag" or no biggie? I appreciate your input. I have not heard of a "higher diploma" before. If it will make a difference to how my lifestye is, I should argue for it, no? Are you saying you can't have the word "manager" on your business card if it says tech on your visa? That's nuts.

Personally I’d try and push for the manager tag, about 2 to 3 years ago the regulation was enforced in Dubai, and the only way you could get a transfer of visa (without a ban) was based on job categories and labour position; managers were exempt of the ban. As I said this was possibly 3 years back, however the Dubai labour department can be fickle and may simply revert to the federal regulation if they feel like it.

The minimum education qualification for a “westerner” to get a labour card is a grade 12 education and certificate. For the rest (with the exception of Labour, domestic servants and block visa applicants) it’s the equivalent of a 3/ 4 year bachelors’ degree. This however doesn’t mean that if you have a grade 12 you can be employed as an architect, this is merely the minimum educational qualification allowed.

Technically you are not allowed to represent anything on a business card that is false, legally in the UAE it can be construed as fraud. This goes to using a false name, using a company name that is not or no longer registered to trade, etc. That as with many things in Dubai is the legality, in practical terms it happens all the time.

The higher diploma was simply an additional 2 years on top of the original 3 – some countries accept this as an equivalent to a bachelor’s degree.

At the end of the day, it’s probably a small thing and may not have any significant bearing on your personal or business life in Dubai, from experience it has helped me at least twice before (once with beating the ban, under the old system), and the second with a minor traffic violation. Things in Dubai/ the UAE seem to work around this very odd business/ social cast system, as I said in the previous post, in some groups the title brings a lot of social standing. I even know a security guard, who demanded to be given a business card by the company who employed him, then he wasn’t happy with “security guard” printed on it, he wanted “security inspector” printed on it with his blood group behind the title, so that it looked like a degree of sorts ….. it takes all sorts!

Thanks again! Kinda funny how 2 diplomas and 15 years experience might not be construed as "management material". I guess I will get used to it....the different rules I mean. Hopefully they won't pull the plug on me after all this! You seem quite knowledgeable in this department, I never thought about being banned or anything like that....it really does a guy's head in sometimes!

I forgot to add, when it comes to paying the visa costs (employer’s expense), it's cheaper to register someone on a supervisory/ administrative level than it is to register them as a manager.

This may be the issue; although I think that if your company were penny-pinching over something as small as these you may have keep your eyes open!

I wouldn’t worry too much about pushing them, they kind of expect it and haggling is seen as a skill (although it depends who you’re haggling with), don’t let them walk over you, this is your only opportunity you have where you have the upper hand. Your contract (if you stay with the same employer) will only probably come up for renegotiation in about 3 years – this is the normal contract length. I mentioned in an early posting, don’t expect to get bonuses, annual increases etc. during your contract; the contract and rate of remuneration is fixed for a period! Having said this, the are however more progressive employers in Dubai, who will make small cost-of-living adjustments from time to time to keep the employees happy – this is however at their discretion and not obligatory.

On negotiations on renewal - Once the employer knows that you have settled in and worked out one contract period: you have some possessions, a social life, perhaps a wife and some kids and you are happily settled in, he then has the upper hand, as you would be less likely to toss away a comfortable living (and relocating) rather than haggling over a few Dirham’s.

dbxsoul wrote:Howdy Sage, I should also like to point out that under the previous labour category ban, someone with a position title "manager" could not be banned (subject to other conditions), while a "technician" could be...

Interestingly enough the law governing this is still in the federal labour law! Dubai just chooses to make an exception to it....

I’ve never heard of the issue relating to degree vs. diplomas with reference to management positions though; I hold a diploma and a higher diploma, but still had “manager” stamped on my labour card???

I do seem to remember though that there are also small, subtle issues regarding “manager” being printed on your business can labour cards … government/ ministerial/ police officials seem to give you more leeway if you are a “manager” as opposed to being “senior technician” for instance.

It was a huge issue for staff from the Indian sub-continent (no disrespect intended) what their title on their business card was. It’s obviously some kind of status symbol and very important to them. I remember having a client who was the chairman of a company, he insisted that every one address him as “Mr Chairman” … it was quiet a laugh I thought (and he was fairly arrogant toss in any case)…

The issue of Position V's qualification / Degree etc., is quite a recent thing, along with the compulsory attestation of degrees etc.
It is still only a way to get a work permit / visa, as long as a person has been open and truthful with the Company from the outset it is not an issue. Also if your Visa / Work permit is re-newed these checks are not made it is only when you join a Company.

You could be less comfortable if you are traveling in the region (GCC countries). AFAIK if the title in the visa is manager and up, you can avail visa-on-arrival in other GCC countries. Otherwise you need to get a visa each time (exception for Saudi, no matter what title in visa, you need a visa). Unless you're a citizen of some number of countries who can get visa-on-arrival or visa-free just by showing the passport.

Thank you very much fror your input. I spoke to the company yesterday and they assured me it was only for ease of visa purposes. The diplomas are still regarded by the company as being the standard for education, but are complying with UAE laws. The offer still stands...good news. I guess it would be like a family member of mine who is the chief building inspector for a large Canadian city. He has a diploma in civil planning, but 40 years experience doing so, working his way up over the years. I guess he would have "flunkie" written on his visa as well! Funny how times change...thanks again all!

dubaidog wrote:Thanks again! Kinda funny how 2 diplomas and 15 years experience might not be construed as "management material". I guess I will get used to it....the different rules I mean. Hopefully they won't pull the plug on me after all this! You seem quite knowledgeable in this department, I never thought about being banned or anything like that....it really does a guy's head in sometimes!

What you "title" is in the company has little to do with your contract. True if you do not have the requisite degrees for a manager's position your contract will not say you are manager. Nevertheless, you can still manage people in your company and print as many business cards with titles as you wish (they cost almost nothing to do). Your salary and postion are a matter of negotiation with your employer. I don't know that there is any cap as to what can be paid for any position. And if there is,then your salary is X and your allowances are Y to the total "salary" you negotiated even if "Y" is greater than "X" which happens (so that your gratuity is lower as it is based on your base salary not your total compensation).

I say, secure the salary and the "position" and they will work out the contract. If it is a reputable company you need not worry. If not then, a "managment" designation, on your contract will not be of any use.

Good luck.