Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai Politics Talk Philosophy and Religion Forums

After the latest body count, (more than 20 people killed at a university in Virginia) why oh why don't Americans review their gun laws. How many more mass killings are they going to have before they get the message.

I agree with you Chocs - it's appalling and it still amazes me that the gun lobby is still advocating no further restrictions, or that it is not the lax gun laws that allows these things to go on.

I own a gun licence (shot gun) in the UK and had to go through some pretty strict checks, home visits etc. So I am not in favour of a ban on guns - the sporting enthusiasts who shoot and own licences are some of the safest people around - it's the criminals who are a problem, so licencing may not fully answer the problems - but the easy availability of guns in the US is surely contributing to numbers of being killed by guns each day.

Cheers,
Shafique

The main news item this morning on BBC world was the candle light vigil and memorial service for the victims of the shootings, with clips of President Bush giving his condolences.

A thought occurred to me this morning - the killing of 33 civilians in one incident can be so high profile that it would be the main news items for two days running...

If only the killings of other innocents (and far younger children) around the world had the same effect.

It reminded me of a line in an episode of The West Wing a few years ago:
President Bartlett:"Why is a Kuhndunese [African] life worth less to me than an American life?"

Will Bailey: "I don't know, Sir, but it is."
#414 "Inauguration Part I"
Broadcast: February 5, 2003

Cheers,
Shafique

this makes me soo sad...

shafique wrote:The main news item this morning on BBC world was the candle light vigil and memorial service for the victims of the shootings, with clips of President Bush giving his condolences.

A thought occurred to me this morning - the killing of 33 civilians in one incident can be so high profile that it would be the main news items for two days running...

If only the killings of other innocents (and far younger children) around the world had the same effect.

It reminded me of a line in an episode of The West Wing a few years ago:
President Bartlett:"Why is a Kuhndunese [African] life worth less to me than an American life?"

Will Bailey: "I don't know, Sir, but it is."
#414 "Inauguration Part I"
Broadcast: February 5, 2003

Cheers,
Shafique

Why i didn't read this post yesterday? Good Observation Shafique, but what do we expect from the directors and actors guild? You'll see a lot of drama if they're hit, a well crafted drama for us to sympathize. Two cents from here.

I find American-style candle light vigils slightly disturbing....

freza wrote:I find American-style candle light vigils slightly disturbing....

Not that I've done any research into the subject - but I associate candlelight vigils more with Eastern religions such as Hinduism (Divali) and Zorastrianism.

Anyway - for what its worth, I'm in favour of people showing their opinions and doing their bit - a candlelight vigil is quite poignant to me. It gives the people there a way to outwardly express a common feeling and emphasises the common humanity of us all - we all feel loss and grief at the senseless loss of life.

Cheers,
Shafique

I would like to view it - candle lighting - as a form of light of rationality; seeking justice for humanity and rejects pseudoscience. But before lighting those candles, let's hope paraffin tests were conducted. And who am i to tell them?

Double Post

asc_26 wrote:I would like to view it - candle lighting - as a form of light of rationality; seeking justice for humanity and rejects pseudoscience. But before lighting those candles, let's hope paraffin tests were conducted. And who am i to tell them?

what the hell?? Where's Satan Redeemer or even MAC to make sense of what ascy is trying to say?

Candle light vigils are better left to saint worshippers....otherwise they look phony, that whole "we need to start healing" thing is just so weird.

Phew... Woo hooo

Our Glorious American friends.

America shud solve its own problems first, then try to teach all other countries that have oil how to live!!!! I feel very sorry for those young guys that were killed its terriable!!!

freza wrote:I find American-style candle light vigils slightly disturbing....

Holy crap freza, we agree on something!

The American candlelight vigil always seems to be based on the fact that Americans want to seen to be part of paying respects to someone, and when the TV cameras turn up the number of candles grows exponentially. My main memory of this guff is the death of Kurt Cobain, as a huge music fan it affected me immensely but America seemed to think that lighting a candle for a man who'd degenerated so much to blow his own brains out was by far the best and most public choice rather than address the underlying elements which had led him to do so. When Courtney Love (his wife) publicly called him an "a--hole" for his actions, it only lit more candles, not caused more people to question whether they were part of the problem.


The UK wasn't immune, the disgrace that was the death of Diana will haunt our national reputation forever.

On the topic of gun control, the f**kwit american vote has too much sway to ever ban guns. It's actually quite frightening to hear your average Texan and the like go on about their "God-given right to bear arms". Shoot anyone who applies for a gun license and the world will be a safer place

freza wrote:

asc_26 wrote:I would like to view it - candle lighting - as a form of light of rationality; seeking justice for humanity and rejects pseudoscience. But before lighting those candles, let's hope paraffin tests were conducted. And who am i to tell them?

what the hell?? Where's Satan Redeemer or even MAC to make sense of what ascy is trying to say?

Candle light vigils are better left to saint worshippers....otherwise they look phony, that whole "we need to start healing" thing is just so weird.

i cant make sense no one can make sense.

i will have pain in knee so i will light candle to 'heal' it. you think it wud work.

scot1870 wrote:

freza wrote:I find American-style candle light vigils slightly disturbing....

Holy crap freza, we agree on something!

The American candlelight vigil always seems to be based on the fact that Americans want to seen to be part of paying respects to someone, and when the TV cameras turn up the number of candles grows exponentially. My main memory of this guff is the death of Kurt Cobain, as a huge music fan it affected me immensely but America seemed to think that lighting a candle for a man who'd degenerated so much to blow his own brains out was by far the best and most public choice rather than address the underlying elements which had led him to do so. When Courtney Love (his wife) publicly called him an "a--hole" for his actions, it only lit more candles, not caused more people to question whether they were part of the problem.


The UK wasn't immune, the disgrace that was the death of Diana will haunt our national reputation forever.

On the topic of gun control, the f**kwit american vote has too much sway to ever ban guns. It's actually quite frightening to hear your average Texan and the like go on about their "God-given right to bear arms". Shoot anyone who applies for a gun license and the world will be a safer place

scot#

i think you watch too many tv. i used to think same same but then they cut my tv as i run out of money.

even when i watched tv texas (home of my here george) they dont say 'god given righte' i think they say "constutitional given right". whatever that mean.

Hahaha..... This thread makes me laugh.... thanks. ((((((Freza)))))) You all crack me... MAC

Scott, I knew we would agree on something sooner or later!!
Emotional "healing" of this type screams: staged and diverts attention and significance from the real issues. I don't get the idea of people finding the need to "do something" in order to move on - sometimes it's best not to do anything to forget trauma. Also, whatever happened to privacy? Pain should be handled in private and whatever public display of mourning/healing etc. is displayed should have some real meaning.

I do like public flag burnings though, I don't know why, but seeing someone burn a national flag just makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

asc_26 wrote:Hahaha..... This thread makes me laugh.... thanks. ((((((Freza)))))) You all crack me... MAC

Have we really cracked you asc? I think not, I think you're uncrackable to be honest. You could use a little cracking up though.

I have to say that whilst I can see the point in a vigil on campus soon after the shootings - I'm totally with Scott in his view of the aftermath of Diana's death in the UK.

It was a disgrace, in my view. Sentimental clap trap - and way over-blown. It seems more-so in hindsight when we look at the more muted reactions to the deaths of the Queen mother and Princess Margaret.

Anyway - rant over (the whole cult of 'celebrity' is enough to get my blood pressure up and it irks me that people still buy 'hello'; 'ahlan' etc - why do the lives of 'celebs' mean so much to people - I mean, does it really matter what people wear, how much they weigh or the status of their relationships... how does that affect your life.... I haven't won that arguement with my wife, so I have no illusions I'll be able to make any difference at all )


On a different point - I can't help but think that all the publicity the shooter has received will inevitably lead to another similar tragedy in future. He has set a new record and had his image shown over the world - am I the only one who thinks that this isn't an invitation to another disturbed individual to try and outdo the number of killings? A chilling thought!

Cheers,
Shafique

C'mon folks - 32 people have been shot to death and you are all taking an exception to the fact that they have held a candle vigil.

Critic on how people handle grief in the light of how the media operates is quite a sweeping generalization on the individual.

jabbajabba wrote:C'mon folks - 32 people have been shot to death and you are all taking an exception to the fact that they have held a candle vigil.

Critic on how people handle grief in the light of how the media operates is quite a sweeping generalization on the individual.

Well said man.

Also it amazes me that no-one has said anything thing about how this could have been avoided.

Cho, from South Korea originally, had been taken out of college two years previously, due to mental health issues. He was in councelling and being given phsychiatric treatment. For some bizarre reason all his treatments and sessions stopped and he was allowed back to the college.

So was his crazed (or not so, seeing how well thought out his actions were, so much that he even to time out from shooting to mail a video to a news station from a local post office, before he continue slaughtering his fellow students) the result of a failure in the health system to carry on treating a disturbed and potentially dangerous young man? Failure of the tech who allowed him back? Failure of his parents?

There's many more issues here.

Chocoholic wrote:Also it amazes me that no-one has said anything thing about how this could have been avoided.

Cho, from South Korea originally, had been taken out of college two years previously, due to mental health issues. He was in councelling and being given phsychiatric treatment. For some bizarre reason all his treatments and sessions stopped and he was allowed back to the college.

So was his crazed (or not so, seeing how well thought out his actions were, so much that he even to time out from shooting to mail a video to a news station from a local post office, before he continue slaughtering his fellow students) the result of a failure in the health system to carry on treating a disturbed and potentially dangerous young man? Failure of the tech who allowed him back? Failure of his parents?

There's many more issues here.

Or maybe it was no one's failure. Simply a derranged man intent on doing what he did.

Can't blame the parents or system or school simply because it happened. I imagined there will be some retaliation and kids who are simply "different", and should be allowed to be individuals, will be viewed and treate with suspicion. You can't really tell who is going to "blow" although in reading some reports about the Virginia incident it appears there were plenty of "tell tail" signs - but then again, not many of us are qualified to tell the difference (well, except for the wackos of DF - you know who you are).

Hindsight is a powerful tool. It takes a hell of a lot though to say 'this person is a danger to the community and should be locked up' before they actually even do anything. Can you imagine the civil libertarians if that happened?

As for the whole concept of 'closure' I don't get it. The US candlelit style of closure seems like a bunch of splintery toothpicks forced into a wound to pry it open and keep it from healing.

Now... does anyone know where I can get an AK47? Purely for recreational purposes of course.

The murders on the Virginia Tech campus, the worst such rampage in our history, might have been mitigated if just one member of the faculty or a student had the means to return fire.

They should follow In in the foot steps of Israel all the teachers were given hand guns so to they are able to terminate any hostile/.............. upon entry to the campus and it has had a marked improvement

i prefer to live in gun-less community…

i hope you don’t sell gun… the way I look at it, profits will go up big time for sellers and gun manufacturers once people start buying guns!

panaghoy wrote:i prefer to live in gun-less community…

i hope you don’t sell gun… the way I look at it, profits will go up big time for sellers and gun manufacturers once people start buying guns!

Civil ownership of guns is just peanuts compared to the war machine though.

I grew up in a society where we had access to guns. Not high powered automatic weapons, but rifles, shotguns and the likes and I have used them on many occasions.

Of course, with gun usage came responsibility. I was taught at a young age to be responsible, how to handle a weapon and to respect what the weapon could do.

It should be noted though, that gun laws are only a band aid fix. Criminals don't usually follow laws to begin with, so gun laws tend to stop only the honest people obtaining firearms.

At the end of the day also, if you want to kill someone, there's plenty of ways you can do this without guns.

Now..... having said all that though, I don't believe in people owning guns for 'protection'.

true, there are many ways to kill a man.. but owning a gun will make it more convenient and susceptible to commit crime -- there are so many crazy people around and u wouldnt want these people to start shooting like hunting a rabbit in the forest.

and true, citizen gun is nothing compared to war weapons.. commercialization and distribution of these little guns will surely make a lot of money!

[quote="freza"]

I do like public flag burnings though, I don't know why, but seeing someone burn a national flag just makes me feel warm and fuzzy.

No, No even better is the smell of napalm first thing in the morning air of IRAK now gives us all a very nice warm and fuzzy feeling

^It's not napalm, it's white phosphorus. And when are you going to get the quote function right? Seriously, it's not that difficult!

Don't you have to go light up candles for charred soldiers or something...?