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rudeboy wrote: lol for gods sake its a bloody fish naaah am joking i feel for u chocolic dolphins are clever so are tigers so are cats and parrots and monkeys and elephants and hp naah just joking hp is my bro
but it would have been nice to see u start a post about ppl killing each other
by da way anyone seen jamal

How can Hp be your brother? He's proposing to your sister asc

rudeboy wrote:did anyone miss me

I thought 'HP" and "Brother" were different brands.

Concord wrote:I thought 'HP" and "Brother" were different brands.

True, but there's always United Colours of Benetton!

asc_26 wrote:

Concord wrote:I thought 'HP" and "Brother" were different brands.

True, but there's always United Colours of Benetton!

You are scary!

I have to go with Shafique here....Though the vid is horrific I think it was made to give that effect.

As for entire families being wiped out, I am just repeating what was said earlier...The same occurs when culling of elephants takes place or trawling for fish etc...So a judgement cant be based on such a reasoning that because they are intelligent, or young etc they cant be harvested.

To highligt cruelty would be to condem cage shooting of animals for money or extracting gal juice from bears in China......

As for knowing where meat comes from, my father also said that to eat any meat you should know how it comes...Then if you still want to eat you can...But not knowing is a bigger evil....

Elephant culls are not comparable. They normally only kill the older elephants, they wouldn't kill infants. And at least in culls, animals are killed quickly and humanely. With the dolphins this is not the case.

Shame you turn a blind eye to that fact. I will just assume that you're a cold, heartless human being.

At least I know it's wrong and I choose to do something about. It's a real shame people spout on about other issues here that they feel are more important, but are they doing anything about it? I doubt it!

shafique wrote:Concord,

Show me real suffering and I'll sign any petition (and more) that you want. If the dolphins are suffering, then so are the many millions more mammals that are slaughtered everyday, and millions more fish that are caught every day.

Children in Darfur, Zimbabwe, Gaza, West Bank, Baghdad, Kabul are all suffering because of the needless actions of man. That I'll sign a petition for.

Don't swallow vegan crap - the stench of propaganda makes me wretch.

Cheers,
Shafique

On "Shafique Speak",

Shafique,

If I understand you correctly,

There are children in Darfur who are suffering and you'll sign a petition but could not be bother or were unable to point us to it: and

There are children in Zimbabwe who are suffering and you'll sign a petition but could not be bother or were unable to point us to it: and

There are children in Gaza who are suffering and you'll sign a petition but could not be bother or were unable to point us to it: and

There are children in West Bank who are suffering and you'll sign a petition but could not be bother or were unable to point us to it: and

There are children in Bagchad who are suffering and you'll sign a petition but could not be bother or were unable to point us to it: and

There are children in Kabul who are suffering and you'll sign a petition but could not be bother or were unable to point us to it.

I would gladly sign the petition...Just let me know.

I recognize that you have no obligation to direct us to any petition but it is just a thought.

Chocoholic took the initiaitve to post something that seems cruel - can't deny that..

If you find a petition against cruelty to Chickens, cows, sheep, tuna, flies, mosquitoes, etc. let me know as well.

Like I said, all you have to do is go to: www.petitiononline.com and there are thousands regarding Environment, Religion, Politics, Media and Entertainment etc etc etc.

Chocoholic wrote:Like I said, all you have to do is go to: www.petitiononline.com and there are thousands regarding Environment, Religion, Politics, Media and Entertainment etc etc etc.

And do you know what they do...... nothing!

Chocoholic wrote:Like I said, all you have to do is go to: www.petitiononline.com and there are thousands regarding Environment, Religion, Politics, Media and Entertainment etc etc etc.

thanks

And how do you know they do nothing Ian?

And what's the for Concord?

Chocoholic wrote: And what's the for Concord?

VVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVVV

Chocoholic wrote:And how do you know they do nothing Ian?

And what's the for Concord?

Well, they don't do 'nothing' - they do provide people the opportunity to vent about something, be self righteous, or use them to push their social self esteem.

If you really wanted to save the Dolphins/Wales/Iguana, go jump aboard a Greenpeace ship as a volunteer (not just a donor) and actually do something.

An online petition is the true shirkers way of thinking they're doing something good and availing themselves of any social guilt, whilst not actually achieving anything.

Rock and Roll.

And whose to say that some of those who sign, won't go and do something? People having their say about something can make a difference.

Anyway since I posted this another 60,000 people world wide have signed it to show their disapproval.

^ian^ wrote:

Chocoholic wrote:And how do you know they do nothing Ian?

And what's the for Concord?

Well, they don't do 'nothing' - they do provide people the opportunity to vent about something, be self righteous, or use them to push their social self esteem.

If you really wanted to save the Dolphins/Wales/Iguana, go jump aboard a Greenpeace ship as a volunteer (not just a donor) and actually do something.

An online petition is the true shirkers way of thinking they're doing something good and availing themselves of any social guilt, whilst not actually achieving anything.

Rock and Roll.

There are only two kinds of people in the world: Those who do and those who don't. As simple as that.

Chocoholic wrote:And whose to say that some of those who sign, won't go and do something? People having their say about something can make a difference.

Anyway since I posted this another 60,000 people world wide have signed it to show their disapproval.

Is more like 20 (I signed 59,980 times)!

Chocoholic wrote:And whose to say that some of those who sign, won't go and do something? People having their say about something can make a difference.

On a very very small few will. FWIW, my brother is one of these very people that actually DOES SOMETHING, risking his life and limb for whales/dolphins/iguanas.

Doesn't make me a better person though, unless I do something, rather than sitting on my bum in an office waiting for someone else to save the world.

Otherwise I just add to the noise.

Anyway since I posted this another 60,000 people world wide have signed it to show their disapproval.

Imagine that... 60,000 people feeling good about themselves because they signed the petition, meanwhile the Dolphins are thinking "I wish there were more people actually doing something instead of wasting their time on the internet! SH1T! here comes another boat!!!!!"

But hey, if at the end of the day when the Dolphins are all gone you can say happily "well, it's not my fault - I signed an online petition" then good for you.

Chocoholic wrote:Elephant culls are not comparable. They normally only kill the older elephants, they wouldn't kill infants. And at least in culls, animals are killed quickly and humanely. With the dolphins this is not the case. Not the case.. During culling elephats are rounded up and shot. Except the infants. There was a detailed doc. on Nat. Geo. Also how do you call shooting humane. It would only be humane " if the shot was true thru the head" What is humane...The levels of stress in an elephant which too lives beyond the age of 50+ a thinking clever animal..

Shame you turn a blind eye to that fact. I will just assume that you're a cold, heartless human being. You have no right to make a judgement based on your thinking of what is right and what is wrong. That in itself is worng and the cause you are trying to promote loses meaning.

At least I know it's wrong and I choose to do something about. It's a real shame people spout on about other issues here that they feel are more important, but are they doing anything about it? I doubt it!

What do you say is wrong....The killing of dolphines for food or they way it is done...Like S said, if you look at it from a 3rd point of view isint slaughtering of any animal for that matter wrong..Chicken also have their jugulars cut and this leads to a rapid death due to massive blood loss which is a more humane way of going.....

As for the petition once signed what do you suggest should be the right alternative for harvesting of dolphines or do you say that they should not be caught at all?????

If so, then what have the other animals done!!!!

DD, you miss the point completely. The dolphins are not killed imeediately after being caught. They are loaded onto trucks, ALIVE, dragged along with chains attached to their tails, ALIVE, left lying on the ground for ages, ALIVE. How is this humane? It's not!

It's not just in Japan, in the Pharaoh islands, the people catch and kill Pilot whales, again they're hacked at with hooks and knives, hauled out alive and have their heads hacked off with chainsaws. This is NOT HUMANE!

By the way I was right about the elephants in that they do not kill the infants, but I also object to the culling of thoe animals, and why? Purely because in some areas their numbers interfer with mans plans - nothing more.

Chocoholic wrote:DD, you miss the point completely. The dolphins are not killed imeediately after being caught. They are loaded onto trucks, ALIVE, dragged along with chains attached to their tails, ALIVE, left lying on the ground for ages, ALIVE. How is this humane? It's not! - There I agree with you 100% Choc no argument.

It's not just in Japan, in the Pharaoh islands, the people catch and kill Pilot whales, again they're hacked at with hooks and knives, hauled out alive and have their heads hacked off with chainsaws. This is NOT HUMANE! - Yup see a doc. on that too. Agree!!

By the way I was right about the elephants in that they do not kill the infants, but I also object to the culling of thoe animals, and why? Purely because in some areas their numbers interfer with mans plans - nothing more.

Any case have already filled the petition. But again I dont believe in not harvesting for food. But I do agree that it should be done in a humane way with the least amount of stress going to the animal. I think that is what you are also trying to say....

Chocoholic wrote:And whose to say that some of those who sign, won't go and do something? People having their say about something can make a difference.

Anyway since I posted this another 60,000 people world wide have signed it to show their disapproval.

I signed this kind of petition during my high school days to tell the whole wide world that it's not OK. Peru is in the hot plate before for environmentalist/conservationist against whale and dolphins fishing. Up to date, there are still illegal fishing even if Peru government passed the law to protect these mammals against illegal fishing.

It's not just Japan. Its neighboring countries are doing the same thing even if there are millions who signed this kind of petition. Worst, awareness campaign like this is not effective to countries with poor economy!

This petition is

Yes that's exactly what I'm saying. Although personally I object to the killnigs of whales and dolphins in the first place, the same as I object to horses, dogs and cats being killed for food. But that's a personal opinion.

Just to be clear - I also am in favour of any animal being dispatched humanely and quickly. The part of the film that was disturbing, was the treatment before the slaughter.

It's a shame that the film seemed to focus on the killing 'per se' rather than the treatment before the killing and used emotional and incorrect language.

Chocs - thanks for posting and I don't hold you responsible for the editorial content of the film, so all my criticisms were actually against the film - not really against those who believed in the message it portrayed (that killing all/any dolphins is bad).

I also share Ian's views on real actions vs well-meaning but futile gestures.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Just to be clear - I also am in favour of any animal being dispatched humanely and quickly. The part of the film that was disturbing, was the treatment before the slaughter.

It's a shame that the film seemed to focus on the killing 'per se' rather than the treatment before the killing and used emotional and incorrect language.

Chocs - thanks for posting and I don't hold you responsible for the editorial content of the film, so all my criticisms were actually against the film - not really against those who believed in the message it portrayed (that killing all/any dolphins is bad).

I also share Ian's views on real actions vs well-meaning but futile gestures.

Cheers,
Shafique

Whilst I am in basic agreement with all that you have said, and also Ian's point of view in part, do you not think that public opinion can at times change things?

But if you don't try, you'll never know!

sage & onion wrote:Whilst I am in basic agreement with all that you have said, and also Ian's point of view in part, do you not think that public opinion can at times change things?

The point of difference being public opinion and public rabble.

Organisations like Greenpeace help steer public opinion. Internet surveys are just noise that achieves nothing.

Public opinion can surely change things - such as wearing fur - but my issue is with propaganda based on untruths, it cheapens the argument and is counterproductive. I don't believe even in white lies - deception is deception.

Well meaning deception is the worst - people who sign up for these just feel cheated and more jaded when it comes to bigger issues when they should be strongly voicing their opinions and taking action.

Public opinion against the Iraq war, for example, was predominantly against it and has been proved right. However it didn't change a thing, and if the war had gone well - nothing would have changed.

Cheers,
Shafique

^ian^ wrote:

sage & onion wrote:Whilst I am in basic agreement with all that you have said, and also Ian's point of view in part, do you not think that public opinion can at times change things?

The point of difference being public opinion and public rabble.

Organisations like Greenpeace help steer public opinion. Internet surveys are just noise that achieves nothing.

The problem is that public opinion doesn't mean anything unless the person/people in the wrong are influenced by it.

In this case Japan continues to ignore overwhealming public opinion against whale/dolphin slaughter and IMO will continue doing so regardless of any action against them.

Anyway, good try Chocs, but this probably isn't the best forum to get support from.

Tried to ignore the video, finally watched it.

Its not right, sick b***ards

it;s sick and ing...how can sombody say that it;s ok to kill these amazing creatures?????