Dubai Forums Dubai Discussions Dubai Politics Talk Philosophy and Religion Forums

My question is regarding alcohol and other things that are not allowed by islam, but ARE sold in the UAE. Pork is another that I can think of.
Everyone knows that practicing muslims cannot consume alcohol or pork. This I inderstand.
But I was told that they also cannot SELL alcohol or pork.
This does not make sense because...
If it were true, then I would not expect alcohol to be sold in the UAE because the booze shops and bars are owned owned by mulsims. And all buisnesses are owned/part owned by locals, so how can pork be sold at any?
Don't get me wrong,
I am very gratefull that locals choose to sell alcohol and pork to me but, I want to know if I am offending anyone.

It's all about the money.

You can find alcohol and pork in some emirates but not all over UAE (As far as i know). Also you can find non-national muslims (cashiers & shop staff) who do not refuse to touch pork product packages.

It's all about the money plus non-national muslims do not have job protection on religious grounds - I guess, which you can find for muslims in other countries like the US (Concord, I read it somewhere).



United Food & Commercial Union Workers local 789 & Civil Rights of 1964.

Chocoholic wrote:It's all about the money.

Ain't it the truth, there is also a Harem tax of 30% that goes on top of purchasing anything against Islam, i.e. Pork and Alcohol. hmmm were does that 30% go? all about the money

benwj wrote:My question is regarding alcohol and other things that are not allowed by islam, but ARE sold in the UAE. Pork is another that I can think of.
Everyone knows that practicing muslims cannot consume alcohol or pork. This I inderstand.
But I was told that they also cannot SELL alcohol or pork.
This does not make sense because...
If it were true, then I would not expect alcohol to be sold in the UAE because the booze shops and bars are owned owned by mulsims. And all buisnesses are owned/part owned by locals, so how can pork be sold at any?
Don't get me wrong,
I am very gratefull that locals choose to sell alcohol and pork to me but, I want to know if I am offending anyone.

Can be two things :
A) Attractive to many foreigners, Western and Eastern
B) ££££££

I would say that you should happily continue to consume a product which has been made available to you. If the locals had such an issue with it, this would have been addressed a long time ago.
I know locals who consume much of the Alchohol anyway

Chocoholic wrote:It's all about the money.

Spot on Chocs - no argument here.

Cheers,
Shafique

OK, so why, and this is a serious question, do so many Muslims that I know abstain from drinking alcohol and from eating pork, but they will still have extra-marital sex? Please, I am not saying that all followers of Islam do this, but from experience - on what grounds can they or do they condone their behaviour?

sauron wrote:OK, so why, and this is a serious question, do so many Muslims that I know abstain from drinking alcohol and from eating pork, but they will still have extra-marital love? Please, I am not saying that all followers of Islam do this, but from experience - on what grounds can they or do they condone their behaviour?

You will have to ask these muslims how they justify extra marital affairs and whether they think they are obeying or disobeying their religion.

For my part, the Quran is clear that extra-marital affairs are forbidden and a punishable act under Islamic law.

An observation is that many muslims are being secularised and moving away from religion - some will only pay lip service to religion and will pick and choose what they will follow, to the point where religion is more of a cultural thing rather than a moral/spiritual set of commandments.

We have seen the secularisation of 'Christian' and 'Jewish' Europe and America for some time - where now, for example, the vast majority of those who claim to be Christian or Jewish in background will happily flout the Biblical commandments saying that extra-marital or pre-marital relations are forbidden - now dating is the norm, when in the past it wasn't. I think in examining the reasons why morals and s.e.xual mores changed in these societies will yield the answers why some (emphasis on the some) muslims also are following this path.

Cheers,
Shafique

Hold on...

I still don't know the answer.

Shafique, you are the xpert.

Can a muslim sell alcohol to a non-muslim and remain true to the faith?

or is it that the WEST is taking over and this is just the start of it ?

Mr & Mrs Inquirer wrote:or is it that the WEST is taking over and this is just the start of it ?

it depends how long it took you to acually come up with that joke

benwj wrote:Hold on...

I still don't know the answer.

Shafique, you are the xpert.

Can a muslim sell alcohol to a non-muslim and remain true to the faith?

well i should wait for shafique to answer this one with more detail but...
but yeah, the person trading with alcohol would be the same as drinking it

benwj wrote:Hold on...

I still don't know the answer.

Shafique, you are the xpert.

Can a muslim sell alcohol to a non-muslim and remain true to the faith?

According to what I was taught at school- drugs, alcohol, pork or any other food, drink or substance which is forbidden in Islam has no value in Shariah and should not be sold by a muslim to anyone, muslim or non muslim. So it's haram.

But like choco said- tis all about teh money.

benwj wrote:Hold on...

I still don't know the answer.

Shafique, you are the xpert.

Can a muslim sell alcohol to a non-muslim and remain true to the faith?

My understanding is that if you have control (i.e. you own the store) then it is forbidden for you to sell alcohol or pork. There is a general principle that Muslims can't knowingly cause harm to other people - so knowing that alcohol is forbidden means that I can't buy or offer people alcohol. In the past this has meant I have thrown Champagne given to me as a present (by my company!!) down the drain rather than giving it to people who would drink it.

Where one is an employee and it is a condition of the job to serve alcohol and pork (let's leave to one side the fact they could choose another job), then it is not a sin to serve the alcohol as there is no volition.

The above is based on answers I've heard scholars give to people working in supermarkets and hotels. The view that Muslims should not sell pork and alcohol (or receive interest) was crystal clear.

Cheers,
Shafique

Shafique, thanks for your reply, and you're right - I should ask them, and I will, but when I am closer to leaving and my job is not on the line! It's just that I work with recent school leavers ( local ) and, though they throw up their hands in horror at the idea of drinking alcohol or eating pork, they talk quite openly about their girlfriends. This has always thrown me slightly as I would have thought that the latter was the more heinous 'crime'. I guess that's what I'm asking - to me the rules seem to be pretty clear cut, but are some easier to 'bend' than others?

Thankyou all for the answers.

I didn't realise that it was an issue, and thought that locals would enjoy watching expats get drunk and make fools of themselves.
I'll be a bit more careful now.

I think locals might have better things to do with their time.

benwj wrote:Thankyou all for the answers.

I didn't realise that it was an issue, and thought that locals would enjoy watching expats get drunk and make fools of themselves.
I'll be a bit more careful now.

yeah thursdays and mondays

they are just a bunch of Hypocrites all these laws are made up to in slave people. The locals wish they were Western but they know that if they go to the West they will just be treated as third world persons which they are,
And these laws are made to repress people just ask your self why are they so scared of Christianity that they will not allow Church’s

sauron wrote::shock: I think locals might have better things to do with their time.

Yeah like sit at the bar, get hammered, then get in their big 4x4's and drive like looneys.

Chocoholic wrote:

sauron wrote::shock: I think locals might have better things to do with their time.

Yeah like sit at the bar, get hammeed, then get in their big 4x4's and drive like looneys.

You gotta love those stereotypes

Cheers,
Shafique

Chocoholic wrote:

sauron wrote::shock: I think locals might have better things to do with their time.

Yeah like sit at the bar, get hammeed, then get in their big 4x4's and drive like looneys.

why? are they taking away your thunder?

Sorry I couldn't resist. Sadly it's true of many people of all nationalities.

But I still find it weird to see guys in dish-dashes with a pint.

Basically whoever you are, if you're going to drink, take a cab home.

Drinking is a vice that is found in all nations - the Arabs, pre-Islam, were very big drinkers. Even in the early days of Islam, Arabs were instructed not to go to pray whilst they were drunk. When the verses were revealed that forbade alcohol, the reports are that people stopped drinking there an then and that the streets ran with alcohol as it was poured away.

The tee-total Muslim was thus born - and remained the predominant image of Muslim Arab for a long while. Unfortunately, whether real or not, the stereotype of the hypocrite local who drinks is one that is much heard of (but then again, Muslims who go about their normal lives and don't frequent bars aren't going to be that visible to those of other cultures).

Cheers,
Shafique

Chocoholic wrote:Sorry I couldn't resist. Sadly it's true of many people of all nationalities.

But I still find it weird to see guys in dish-dashes with a pint.

Basically whoever you are, if you're going to drink, take a cab home.

how many people in general take cabs when they know they are going to drink?
there are people who are dumb and there are people who lack responsiblity and drive back home

its weird for me when i see a white person eating with his bare hands

benwj wrote:My question is regarding alcohol and other things that are not allowed by islam, but ARE sold in the UAE. Pork is another that I can think of.
Everyone knows that practicing muslims cannot consume alcohol or pork. This I inderstand.
But I was told that they also cannot SELL alcohol or pork.
This does not make sense because...
If it were true, then I would not expect alcohol to be sold in the UAE because the booze shops and bars are owned owned by mulsims. And all buisnesses are owned/part owned by locals, so how can pork be sold at any?
Don't get me wrong,
I am very gratefull that locals choose to sell alcohol and pork to me but, I want to know if I am offending anyone.

most of us are not happy this is happening but i guess some are greedy..

Chocoholic wrote:But I still find it weird to see guys in dish-dashes with a pint.

I was also shocked when I found out that a friend of mine who drinks alcohol was a muslim.

I said, what you are muslim?!
He said, yeh... so.
I said, but you shouldn't be drinking!
He said, I like drinking, just like you do.

I realised how stupid I sounded, and that there are non-practicing mulsims, just as there are non-practicing christians etc.
This does not make them bad people.

I can understand why it angers locals like mena because, it would anger me also, but living in Dubai has made me a lot more tollerant of others just as locals tollerate my culture.

benwj wrote:
I was also shocked when I found out that a friend of mine who drinks alcohol was a muslim.

I said, what you are muslim?!
He said, yeh... so.
I said, but you shouldn't be drinking!
He said, I like drinking, just like you do.

Reminds me of an incident many years back when speaking to a Jewish colleague of mine who said she enjoyed eating spare ribs. I did a double take and said:
"But that's pork isn't it?"

She said "yes, I don't normally eat pork, but you can't get spare ribs other than from a pig and I like the taste"

That really threw me!


I do know a number of muslims who drink - they all know it is against Islam and still choose to do so. They have to live their lives and answer to their own concious'. Most people have secrets and weaknesses - some of these are contrary to their professed religions and values.

At the end of the day people are fallible and it is normal to not live up to high morals, but religion sets the bar and asks us to meet it - fortunately religion also teaches that God is like a loving father who is waiting and longing for us to mend our ways (the parable of the prodigal son in the Bible springs to mind here - a concept of God that Islam also encompasses).

[Boy, there I go again slipping into preaching mode ]

Cheers,
Shafique

Shaf,

I imagine that eating pork would be about as foreign to a muslim as myself eating say, dog or cat, or... dolphin
I don't think that I could ever get used to it.

Although alcohol would be a lot easier to swallow, pardon the pun.

Sure, some people have a problem with alcohol... well more than a few for it to be the cause of most domestic and health problems in the western world... but not all alcohol drinkers should be frowned upon. This includes your muslim aquaintances.
Where is the harm, if no one else is negatively impacted by it?
Why is it allowed in my religion and not yours?
I can drink it and still go to heaven, but you can't?
That is unfair.

Benjw,

Good question - why should alcohol be banned when so many find some solace and enjoyment in it. Also medical studies have shown that small/moderate amounts of alcohol consumption is good for health.

The same could be said about gambling - some gambling may be viewed as innocent fun and some money can be used for good causes - rather than raising taxes.

So, the question becomes 'has Islam got it so wrong to ban alcohol and gambling - when there is some good in both??'

Well, rather than my words, let's see what the Quran (the literal word of God according to the Quran itself, and what Muslims believe):

Chpt 2 v 219:
They ask thee concerning wine and games of chance. Say, 'In both there is great sin and harm and also some advantages for men; but their sin and harm are greater than their advantage,' And they ask thee what they should spend. Say, 'Spend what you can spare.' Thus does Allah makes His commandments clear to you that you may reflect


Chapter5 Verse : 90&91
O ye who believe! wine and the game of chance and idols and divining arrows are only the abomination of Satan's handiwork. So shun each one of them that you may prosper.

Satan seeks only to create enmity and hatred among you by means of wine and the game of chance, and to keep you back from the remembrance of Allah and from Prayer. Then will you keep back?



Therefore, you have your answer. The bad outweighs the good. Looking at the effects of alcohol and gambling shows this assertion to be correct and wise.

Cheers,
Shafique