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Legendkiller wrote:well said Hp and paranoid!

If they wanna eat dolphins...let them!
who r we to say they can't?
forget the japanese for a moment..let's take something that most of us eat..chicken..do u really think that chickens have a peaceful death..
and how can we forget the kfc method for killing chicken..
i know that those dolphins don't have a painless death..but then again which animal on our plates have?

Uhh no, don't group me with HP. His logic is that because people die we shouldn't care about animals. I care about animals a lot, and I condemn those who torture them and cause them pain for no reason( I remember the first two videos choco posted a long time ago about animal torture in china- THAT'S something to sign a petition for IMO) Still I believe humans can kill animals for food. Different people from different places eat different animals, and I think the guys commenting here should be openminded about that.

I also don't completly approve of killing animals only for thier skins to make clothes and such.

PS - one misleading line (to illustrate why I'm a little incensed) was when the narrator said that the dolphins who had their jugulars slashed were convulsing in pain whilst slowly suffocating. What utter tosh - the dolphins were dying due to blood loss, just as cows etc are slaughtered and weren't suffocating - dolphins breath air, so don't suffocate out of water and weren't slowly suffocating at all.

Cheers,
Shafique

ugh, didn't need to see that.

signed the petition, sent it to everyone that i know that hasnt seen it yet and also posted it on my blog...


this kind of stuff is just ing.

shafique wrote:PS - one misleading line (to illustrate why I'm a little incensed) was when the narrator said that the dolphins who had their jugulars slashed were convulsing in pain whilst slowly suffocating. What utter tosh - the dolphins were dying due to blood loss, just as cows etc are slaughtered and weren't suffocating - dolphins breath air, so don't suffocate out of water and weren't slowly suffocating at all.

Cheers,
Shafique

Hey Shafique and all who have mentioned chickens, cows, horses, etc.

Start a campaing or point people to the place were they can petition.

I guess same would go for slave labor / discrimination / intollerance: why care about one incident when it happens to other people in other places, etc.

I hope you signed the petition

Concord,

I'll sign any petition that will campaign against battery chickens which confine egg laying hens in cages which are inhumane.

However, I will not be a hypocrite and condemn what is a natural harvest of dolphins for human consumption. The dolphins in question had a good life and weren't farmed, and arguably had a better life than all the dolphins in aquariums around the world which are kept in captivity for the pleasure of humans - let's sign a petition for that.

I say free all the performing dolphins first!

But don't ask me to buy the misleading propaganda about 'suffocating slowly' when what we are seeing is the slaughter of mammals for meat and is no more disturbing than the slaughter of horses and cows.

If I were the Japanese, I'd take the videos of animal rights people that filmed in the abattoirs of the 'West' and similarly dub it with music and a voiceover and show kids tucking into McDonalds to show how barbaric the Occidentals are. I wonder how many will sign that petition.

Cheers,
Shafique

Concord,

Show me real suffering and I'll sign any petition (and more) that you want. If the dolphins are suffering, then so are the many millions more mammals that are slaughtered everyday, and millions more fish that are caught every day.

Children in Darfur, Zimbabwe, Gaza, West Bank, Baghdad, Kabul are all suffering because of the needless actions of man. That I'll sign a petition for.

Don't swallow vegan crap - the stench of propaganda makes me wretch.

Cheers,
Shafique

Nice refute dawgy. Not.

I don't know about dophin meat, but shark meat is nasty as hell, or maybe it's an acquired taste. For some reason I feel like wearing my taupe dog fur jacket today, it's très chic. too bad it's a warm day, I'd probably look more ridiculous than usual wearing it...

Some of you need to wrap yourself up in a Winnie da Poo blanket with a bag of caramel popcorn, get in touch with your sensitive feelings and your um, well placed "priorities" in life, yup feel safe from this cruel cruel world! ha, bunch of freakazoids.

woo-hoo, Shafique said it like it is
Shafique for mod!

(it's weird and a bit sad, that common sense is so rare nowadays...)

Shafique, the point the Choco is trying to make is to raise awareness against cruelty to these harmless creatures.

Its inhuman to keep them alive on flatbed trucks for extended periods of time when their skin needs to be moistened constantly.

PETA has raised the matter of cruelty to chickens and cows in most countries because of which laws are quite stringent and enforce certain rules on slaughterhouses that aims to reduce trauma and stress to the animals.

They have to be provided with food and water, sufficient space (especially chickens) and they are stunned before they are slaughtered to reduce the pain.

This thread is not to justify cruelty... its to help stop inhuman slaughter of a fast diminishing species, just like the baby seals of canada, the young apes of Africa and whaling by Norway and Japan

Chocoholic wrote:Have you seen the different countries that people have contributed from? It's amazing, hopefully we can make a difference.

How do you view the signatories Choco??

shafique wrote:PS - one misleading line (to illustrate why I'm a little incensed) was when the narrator said that the dolphins who had their jugulars slashed were convulsing in pain whilst slowly suffocating. What utter tosh - the dolphins were dying due to blood loss, just as cows etc are slaughtered and weren't suffocating - dolphins breath air, so don't suffocate out of water and weren't slowly suffocating at all.

Cheers,
Shafique

The dolphins may not have been slowly suffocating, but yes, they were convulsing in pain, and slowly dying due to blood loss.

This is what some people find disturbing, apart from the fact that they are dolphins.

Cows, horses, sheep, goats etc are no longer slaughted this way, unless it is for religious reasons. The accepted method of death is a bolt gun triggered at a precise area on the top of the skull. This is closely monitored by governments and many animal rights groups, and there ARE already videos of the abattoirs that have broken the rules.

As I said, there are obviously concessions for religious reasons and these are respected by myself and others.

But the japanese were not following any religious methods, or scientific methods of slaughter.

Keith, you click on the link for the petition, then click on 'view signatures'.

Some of you are totally insensitive and I'm appalled by some of your attitudes.

Shaf, the whole point is that these 'mammals' are not killed humanely. As has been pointed out most 'land dwelling mammals' are killed using bolt guns, which is instant. Dolphins and whales are sea dwelling mammals and once they are taken out of that environment they are totally stressed, their skin dries and becomes painful and their body weight, without the suspension of water basically can crush their internal organs, so yes they can effectively suffocate under their own weight out of water.

They're not killed unstantly, it is slow and painful and can be over hours! That's the point.

Plus did you totally ignore the fact about entire family groups being wiped out? That they don't reach breeding age till their teens, that they live till 80? So at this rate they will be driven to exstinction! Once they're gone from this earht, you cannot bring them back.

At the rate man is going at wiping out species from the planet, soon there'll be no other 'naimal' left than man, who is the most pathetic, cruel and evil of them all.

And to answer your question HP, I have witten many times about peoples plights. The world does not revolve around Iraq! There are people suffering in countries all over the world you know. But the more I see mans willful distruction against his own kind, the less I care.

Chocoholic wrote:
And to answer your question HP, I have witten many times about peoples plights. The world does not revolve around Iraq! There are people suffering in countries all over the world you know. But the more I see mans willful distruction against his own kind, the less I care.

Jade ,


If the President of Iran comes with the remarks , you r the first person to open a new topic , Yeah Yeah Yeah . I hope you dont mind you uncle adolf Hitlor and his kidness to Jew community , because a mans willful distruction against his own kid

what do u say sweetheart ?

benwj wrote:
The dolphins may not have been slowly suffocating, but yes, they were convulsing in pain, and slowly dying due to blood loss.

So you agree there is at least one misleading fact in the film.

IF they are 'slowly dying due to blood loss' then this would be cruel and inhumane. But this is not what the film was saying and blood gushing out of arteries is actually an indication of quick, humane slaughter.

benwj wrote:This is what some people find disturbing, apart from the fact that they are dolphins.

Cows, horses, sheep, goats etc are no longer slaughted this way, unless it is for religious reasons. The accepted method of death is a bolt gun triggered at a precise area on the top of the skull. This is closely monitored by governments and many animal rights groups, and there ARE already videos of the abattoirs that have broken the rules.

The accepted method makes it easier on the onlookers and causes the animals more suffering - death still only occurs when the throats are slit. If you search on my posts you'll see it has been discussed before with scientific references.

I totally agree that people find the scenes disturbing. In my opinion this is because scenes of slaughtering for meat are disturbing for people who have not seen them before.

benwj wrote:As I said, there are obviously concessions for religious reasons and these are respected by myself and others.

But the japanese were not following any religious methods, or scientific methods of slaughter.

I'm not approaching this thread from a religious perspective - rather from a perspective of how best to slaughter animals once one decides we can eat meat.


Now - let me be clear - I find that the way in which the dolphins were treated before being slaughtered to be disturbing - the transportation and dragging of live dolphins. Far better, in my opinion to dispatch the animals on the quayside and then transport the carcasses. This important message is lost when sentimental and misleading propaganda is used to convey wrong and misleading messages.

Cheers,
Shafique

Chocoholic wrote:Shaf, the whole point is that these 'mammals' are not killed humanely. As has been pointed out most 'land dwelling mammals' are killed using bolt guns, which is instant. Dolphins and whales are sea dwelling mammals and once they are taken out of that environment they are totally stressed, their skin dries and becomes painful and their body weight, without the suspension of water basically can crush their internal organs, so yes they can effectively suffocate under their own weight out of water.

If that is the whole point of the film, then I am too against this prolonged suffering. However the film did not major on this point and seemed to be condemning the fact that dolphins were being caught for meat - not the manner of their dispatch.

I also disagree with a bolt to the head causing less pain for the animals - but we have discussed this before and it is not relevant here (unless you are advocating the Japanese stun the animals as soon as they are taken out of the water - I would rather have them slaughter them there and then).

Chocoholic wrote:They're not killed unstantly, it is slow and painful and can be over hours! That's the point.

Plus did you totally ignore the fact about entire family groups being wiped out? That they don't reach breeding age till their teens, that they live till 80? So at this rate they will be driven to exstinction! Once they're gone from this earht, you cannot bring them back.

Prolonged suffering cannot be condoned.

As I also said, if the point is made that the harvesting is endangering the population of dolphins, then this is a question of mismanagement and should also be condemned (I am in favour of the fish quotas etc imposed on European fishermen to try and counteract the overfishing and depletion of fish stocks - just see the near extinction of Cod in British waters).

However, my personal opinion is that these noble causes (for which I will sign a petition and, more importantly, spend my consumer dollars/pounds supporting) are not best served by emotive and misleading propaganda that offend the logic of anyone who decides to scratch the surface of the images and narrative.

Cheers,
Shafique

Shaf,

I see you still choose to ignore the facts about entire families being wiped out etc etc.

HP, get lost youy pathetic loser. Go talk about your rubbish in the politics thread.

Chocoholic wrote:Shaf,

I see you still choose to ignore the facts about entire families being wiped out etc etc.

HP, get lost youy pathetic loser. Go talk about your rubbish in the politics thread.

when a person loose the argument then he/ she comes with the abusive language . Being a loser is not as bad as being a " Hypo "

I really donb't care what some of you think, and the fact that all you can do is sit and nitpick and what is correct and incorrect in a narration. The underlying fact is that the way these beautiful animals are being treated is wrong. IF you can't see that, then I suggest you take a trip to the Musandam and see them in the wild.

Food or not, 'fishing' them like this will wipe them out, again if you're so ignorant not to see that, then there's something wrong with you.

At least I'm dong something for something that concerns me, what are you doing?

I haven't lost any argument HP. There is no argument here. I just wish people would see that this is wrong, and if you can't, then there's something seriosuly wrong with you. What so you keep on killing species like this till they're gone? Once they're gone you can't bring them back.

Grow up you silly little boy.

Chocoholic wrote:Shaf,

I see you still choose to ignore the facts about entire families being wiped out etc etc.

HP, get lost youy pathetic loser. Go talk about your rubbish in the politics thread.

I don't think I have - if it is the case that dolphin stocks are being dangerously depleted, then this is wrong. But just to condemn the harvesting of a family group of animals for slaughter can only be done if the population of dolphins in the wild is being rendered unsustainable by the practice.

I could not find an argument either way from the film, and the fact it contains misleading information leads me to doubt the motives and tactics of the producers. If they lied about one fact, why should I believe anything else they say?

That is why I said in my previous post that this type of propaganda is counter-productive - any nugget of truths hidden in the hype is in danger of being dismissed when the big lies are exposed.

Cheers,
Shafique

Chocoholic wrote:I haven't lost any argument HP. There is no argument here. I just wish people would see that this is wrong, and if you can't, then there's something seriosuly wrong with you. What so you keep on killing species like this till they're gone? Once they're gone you can't bring them back.

Grow up you silly little boy.

You have not lost then answer my this reply :

Chocoholic wrote:
And to answer your question HP, I have witten many times about peoples plights. The world does not revolve around Iraq! There are people suffering in countries all over the world you know. But the more I see mans willful distruction against his own kind, the less I care.

Jade ,


If the President of Iran comes with the remarks , you r the first person to open a new topic , Yeah Yeah Yeah . I hope you dont mind you uncle adolf Hitlor and his kidness to Jew community , because a mans willful distruction against his own kid

what do u say sweetheart ?

And what do you think will happen my dear, as I've clearly stated before when dolphins only reach the breeding age at around 10 or 12 years? How can they possibly sustain their numbers in that case?

These animals are more intelligent than most people.

Anyway it's pointless to talk to people like you who clearly just don't give a damn about anything.

FYI, I watched the video without commentary. It's enough to prove a point, that it's WRONG!

Thats a disturbing vid.. for sure... but I dont see it any different from any animal slaughter. I still remember, the first time I'd seen a cow being slaughtered. They had this slaughterhouse right on the way to my school.. if u watch it, it would really make u cry.

Shaf, I just cant agree to one of your points ,that u make your kids see it so that they can understand it ? If they still eat mean.. its inhumane.., by making them watch it, all you gain is, just make their minds insensitive of such acts. Thats to my understanding.

I dont agree with this theory - there was one misleading information, so the vid itself is trash.. or sayin pls gimme the REAL sufferings and/or a canadian blog that shows the brutality in killing horses, then i'll sign.. thats like - I'll cross then riven when all the water has run down to the ocean.

Chocs, this is not different from any other slaughter. I agree with shaf n others who said , there's a fair bit of hype in it.. But I'm right there against animal slaughter.

whats the big deal ? its just fish

who doesnt like fish? its tasty.

St Luc - I agree with you that the video is showing what the slaughter of animals is like and is no different from the slaughter of other animals for meat.

Eating meat or fish means that living creatures lose their lives and we eat their flesh. If one chooses not to be a vegetarian then the question becomes one of how one should kill the animals we eat - and as you point out, the scenes in the video of the slaughter are no more, and no less, gory or inhumane than any other slaughter of large mammals for food.

I do have a question over their treatment before the slaughter, but the argument of the video and some in this thread is that the slaughter is cruel and inhumane. The slaughter, if anything, is more humane than battery farmed chickens - of which most people can jump into their cars and within a few hours be at the barns where this is going on - yet people happily munch KFC or buy their eggs and shrink-wrapped chickens from supermarkets.

Chocs then has a go because the dolphins are being killed with young dolphins - but this only had one line in the video. Killing of young animals does not mean that irresponsible animal husbandry is going on - but if it is, then the video is at fault for not making the point. I happily savour lamb chops, but am not under the illusion that the meat did not come from immature sheep.

As for dolphins being intelligent - well studies show that pigs are more intelligent, and horses just as intelligent. And yet many more pigs and horses are killed for meat than dolphins.

Perhaps I'm just too touchy and am unforgiving when I am lied to?

Cheers,
Shafique

St.Lucifer wrote:
Shaf, I just cant agree to one of your points ,that u make your kids see it so that they can understand it ? If they still eat mean.. its inhumane.., by making them watch it, all you gain is, just make their minds insensitive of such acts. Thats to my understanding.

I think it would less humane to let my kids think that meat comes neatly packaged from supermarket shelf.

Life and death are natural and should be given respect. I really can't insulate my kids from the hollywood depictions of murder and intimate relations, but I can show them the reality of where meat comes from. Over many millenia we as humans have hunted, butchered and cooked our food. It is natural and not something that should turn one's stomach - rather it gives you a healthy sense of life and food and makes one think twice before throwing away food or being over-indulgent.

I don't go out of my way and drag my kids to abattoirs, but where the opportunity presents itself to see a chicken, goat or bull slaughtered, we allow them to watch and explain what is going on.

Cheers,
Shafique

Concord wrote:

Not_Sure wrote:
Heres a more interesting topic: Nukes, nerv gas used in war, oh lord...wait till you see those footages...and they aint abt cuddly animals either.

show them you arsehole.

u thinking of it? u can nibble on it if u want

ur a dog arent u? u shud be used to doing it on urself...so u wudnt mind nibbling on mind buddy eh? loool....ruf ruf....i might be meooowing like a cat when u nibble me...loooooooooooooool......dam im so baad.

lol for gods sake its a bloody fish naaah am joking i feel for u chocolic dolphins are clever so are tigers so are cats and parrots and monkeys and elephants and hp naah just joking hp is my bro
but it would have been nice to see u start a post about ppl killing each other
by da way anyone seen jamal

did anyone miss me