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I found this news item funny and relevant to here as it happened just off our shores.

I suppose it's an easy enough mistake - those Jap oil tankers are so nimble and hard to spot that other vessels are forever bumping into them

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6243395.stm

Cheers,
Shafique

Geez, a little dejavu here! Remember this? http://archives.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asia ... index.html

I wonder how many other US subs there are cruising around the gulf.

jabbajabba wrote:I wonder how many other US subs there are cruising around the gulf.

Probably not enough.

shafique wrote:I found this news item funny and relevant to here as it happened just off our shores.

I suppose it's an easy enough mistake - those Jap oil tankers are so nimble and hard to spot that other vessels are forever bumping into them

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6243395.stm

Cheers,
Shafique

Maybe they meant to do it to show that there are nuclear submarines in the gulf (in case anyone - Iran - had any doubts). It was probably staged anyway!

Concord - I think you may be giving the US military too much credit, they haven't really covered themselves with glory recently have they?

Anyway - it is interesting to think they are intentionally looking incompetent for Iran's sake!

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Concord - I think you may be giving the US military too much credit, they haven't really covered themselves with glory recently have they?

Anyway - it is interesting to think they are intentionally looking incompetent for Iran's sake!

Cheers,
Shafique

I think you missed my "point". It is not incompetnence its just to show that there are nuclear submarines (armed) in the Gulf - not a secret but...


Maybe the USA hasn't covered itself with "glory" but it has sacrificed 3,000 young men an woman (that is simply the number of dead and excludes the wounded and their relatives - wives, husbands, children, etc. -or the casualties from other countries). Saddam is now dead and all of the sudden everyone "wishes" he was alive. Bunch of crap.

Nothing easier that criticizing the USA and blaming it for their "commercial" interests, etc. Guess what? No matter how much criticism there is out there the USA will continue to do what it does best until someone else steps up and does better. No one is stopping another country, group, etc. from doing better. At the end of the day it all comes down to MONEY. Absolutely no question in my mind - none whatsoever. Look at why the USA is supported (Money or the fear by other countries that it will have financial reprecusions for them if they don't support the USA so it is about money).

Simply for anyone in this forum in the comfort of their home or work to criticize anything or anyone.

If the USA pulls out of IRAQ today (all that will happen is more blame, etc. etc.). So I say: Keep it up America. Give them hell!

I'll anticipate some "responses"

1. More Iraqis have died that Americans
2. The USA is only after oil and its financial interests
3. Saddam should have been left alone
4. Concord you are nuts.

Ok. All the above is true, except no. 4. Now What?

*looks for coffee*

Lighten up Concord.

I grant you that your theory that the bump with the tanker may be intentional to show Iran they have nuclear subs is one that I cannot disprove. I don't believe it's the case - so it comes down to a matter of opinion.

Still funny though.

As for your other points - I think you're confusing me with someone else. I work for a US company and have many American friends. These include those who support Bush and others who are aghast at what he is doing.

Criticising injustice is not tantamount to hating the West - it is this kind of spin that typifies what I loathe about the current US administration ('you're either with us or against us' etc).

You say 3000 soldiers were sacrificied. I ask for what. I also ask you to provide a figure for the number of Iraqi children killed and ask you whether they willingly 'sacrificed' their lives.

You say it's all about Money - and I agree. Some think might is right and they are welcome to their views - I just believe in justice and human rights.

Are you with me or against me?

Cheers,
Shafique

The military build-up in the Gulf is no secret, though it might be for some in some parts of the world.

Dawgy,
You see I give you a bit more credit compared to other peeps on lovely DF because you don't try to hide much of what you really think about your country's government. Not that your arguments are convincing, but at least you're straight in what you support (I think..).

Concord wrote:Maybe the USA hasn't covered itself with "glory" but it has sacrificed 3,000 young men an woman

Too bad it has sacrificed the lives of others in other countries...

Saddam is now dead and all of the sudden everyone "wishes" he was alive.

Nope, not everyone, but it's easier to make a generalized judgment I guess?

Bunch of crap.

Yup!

Guess what? No matter how much criticism there is out there the USA will continue to do what it does best until someone else steps up and does better.

In terms of foreign policy you mean? No one does invasions-for-profit (aka for "Freedom" hehe) like the US, yeah, got to give it to them!

No one is stopping another country, group, etc. from doing better. At the end of the day it all comes down to MONEY.

China is doing pretty good. What with their enormous trade, cheap products, purposely devalued currency, they make money without going thousands of miles to control the natural resources of another country. I mean they're no pillar of integrity, but they don't pretend to be, right? The EU has its problem...but it's a very strong force economically. And many developing countries are becoming forces to reckon with - not necessarily militarily, but in technology, sciences, trade, service industries (look at India) radical socialist-leaning politics (South America). Some of these underdogs seem to be going after the money by other means, that don't involve much bloodshed.... Yet the top military super-powers are taking steps backward...Interesting.

...Keep it up America. Give them hell!

But if someone stated that Americans or British should receive hell from so and so it would be totally reprehensible, right? Of course, that's the way things work for some of you people.

Concord wrote:..Guess what? No matter how much criticism there is out there the USA will continue to do what it does best until someone else steps up and does better. No one is stopping another country, group, etc. from doing better. At the end of the day it all comes down to MONEY.

Sorry, had to ask about this...

What exactly does America 'do best'? Whatever it is, I'm sure China will do it better in 2 years.



Cheers,
Shafique

^haha, we were thinking the same thing!

yes Freza - you beat me to posting the comment.

shafique wrote:

Concord wrote:..Guess what? No matter how much criticism there is out there the USA will continue to do what it does best until someone else steps up and does better. No one is stopping another country, group, etc. from doing better. At the end of the day it all comes down to MONEY.

Sorry, had to ask about this...

What exactly does America 'do best'? Whatever it is, I'm sure China will do it better in 2 years.



Cheers,
Shafique

Wanna bet?

Concord wrote:

shafique wrote:What exactly does America 'do best'? Whatever it is, I'm sure China will do it better in 2 years.



Cheers,
Shafique

Wanna bet?

You need to answer the question first, then I'll take on a friendly wager (I don't gamble, so no stakes - sorry)

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:

Concord wrote:

shafique wrote:What exactly does America 'do best'? Whatever it is, I'm sure China will do it better in 2 years.



Cheers,
Shafique

Wanna bet?

You need to answer the question first, then I'll take on a friendly wager (I don't gamble, so no stakes - sorry)

Cheers,
Shafique

Sorry, It's just that I don't think anyone else does anything better than the USA. Except Crickett and Soccer (or football as it is sometimes called). Hence my "wager" that in 2 years the USA will still do it better than China.

I imagine others will point things in which others are best. I'm open to suggestions. However, "better" is very subjective (as is my own subjective basis for thinking the USA does it better).

Until someone provides me objective basis for someone else doing things "better" I'll stick to crickett and soccer

Concord wrote:Sorry, It's just that I don't think anyone else does anything better than the USA. Except Crickett and Soccer (or football as it is sometimes called). Hence my "wager" that in 2 years the USA will still do it better than China.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say 'it'. Perhaps you mean 'everything'?

I'll wager you then that China does better Chinese food than US in two years (I understand you are saying that the US does it better right now).

I'm willing to bring forward the deadline to tomorrow if you wish (and not wait for two years).



So, time to walk the talk my friend.

Cheers,
Shafique

Grapes, that was so weak! Even for you, damn. I think you need a double espresso...or maybe you all of a sudden lost interest in the subject?

South Africa does better at crime! Does that count? That sounds like bashing, let me stop there. Manufacturing/production of "American" products in the US, as opposed to China, can it be done within 2 years? Will Ford be alive within two years? If oil were sold in Euro as opposed to the dollar, would the dollar still do well? No one can top the US' deficit. Will it be better in two years?

shafique wrote:

Concord wrote:Sorry, It's just that I don't think anyone else does anything better than the USA. Except Crickett and Soccer (or football as it is sometimes called). Hence my "wager" that in 2 years the USA will still do it better than China.

Sorry, I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say 'it'. Perhaps you mean 'everything'?

I'll wager you then that China does better Chinese food than US in two years (I understand you are saying that the US does it better right now).

I'm willing to bring forward the deadline to tomorrow if you wish (and not wait for two years).



So, time to walk the talk my friend.

Cheers,
Shafique

See, I'm easy.

You are right I mean "everything" but stand corrected. China does better chinese food than the US (personally my best chinese meal was had in Berkely California not in China - and the meal was cheap as it cater to students many of them chinese)!

So here is the list so far: 1. Crickett, 2. Soccer 3. Chinese Food 4. Rugby (new one). Note China will still only do better on the culinary front and none of the sports.

freza wrote: Manufacturing/production of "American" products in the US, as opposed to China, can it be done within 2 years? Will Ford be alive within two years? If oil were sold in Euro as opposed to the dollar, would the dollar still do well? No one can top the US' deficit. Will it be better in two years?

They may manufacture more. Better?????? though to say. Therefore time to get better and having things manufactured elsewhere to reduce labor cost, pollution, depletion of natural resources and train people in the "service" industry (ahead of India)!

Concord - you're a funny guy.



So at least we now agree that the US isn't best at everything. Why quibble over details?

Cheers,
Shafique

so who got the red paper?

Bleakus wrote:so who got the red paper?

say what?