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freza wrote:so Chocs is a "live and let live" mostly-non-believer, great, it's possible!

and I'm in shock that Nicolas and I actually agree on something!

Hon, when will you finally realize that we were meant to be together?

Oh, give me a break. And I'd like to point out that I am not the only person who said that the world would be better without religion. However Freza, you like to focus on me and my opinions. Some kind of pissing contest I am not interested in participating in with you.

Religious people are highly intolerant of atheists and look down on us and pity us for being so "misguided" and "lost". Religious people spend a lot of time trying to convert others to their faith, especially the athiests. Do you really want to talk about tolerance?

It is obvious that the religious PEOPLE are the ones causing the war, not the actual institution of religion itself. However, you must ask yourself how people can manage to justify violence on the part of their religion and conduct the violence with a seemingly clear conscience. The religious texts should be explicit about that, shouldn't they? The Islamists on here seem to be getting their backs up like I am specifically talking about Islam or something. Not once have I mentioned Islam. I am speaking about religions in general, and violence has been used in the name of pretty much every religion out there.

I am pefectly accepting of religious people as long as they are peaceful and not trying to shove it down my throat. If they use it as a reason for violence or try to judge me or pity me because of my lack of religion, then I have an issue. Don't jump to conclusions about my beliefs, especially when I clearly outline them here.

ha ha ha so funny oh Stressy, don't get too comfortable. I think arguing and name-calling each other is so much more fun, especially for a sufferer like you. The next time you step on my toes, I still won't think twice about calling you an Eastern-religion-hating, neo-communist-light sympathizing, hedonist. Now stop trying to derail important threads.
....

Kanelli, I didn't focus on you, I replied to your post, there's a difference. And you do make outrageously generalizing statements about religions, I mean, you just did! Look back at this thread and see how many jabs at religion and believers there are compared to jabs at atheists specifically. What you see is people trying to explain their beliefs, not trying to bring down the beliefs of others with serious and one-sided accusations by using the ever unoriginal (and mostly incorrect) war argument that you and Scot clearly have used. If you can't see that, then too bad, but surely others can see it.

I stated how I view things, I do appreciate (believe it or not) the opposing views on this subject (including yours) because after all, any argument sounds better if there are two aspects to it.

At this point, I don't have much else to add to this subject...

No one was trying to bring down other people's beliefs. We were having a debate about whether god exists or not. On this forum there are plenty of threads with people talking positively about their religion and you don't see any of us atheists jumping on them and trying to put their religion down. Because three of us stated in this thread that we personally think the world would be a better place without religion doesn't mean we are hostile to all religious people. We are entitled to our opinions and can back up our opinions, as we have done. If you don't agree, then fine. If religious people can pass judgements and criticism of atheism, then they should be able to take it when atheists do the same of religion. Ultimatey, you have to be confident and secure in your own beliefs. No one can take that away from you.

Nick81 wrote:

If everyone was an aethiest the world would be a much better place

Highly simplistic statement that is based on absolutely nothing. Yes we live in world where many wars, many conflicts are caused by MEN in the name of religion (notice the way I put it? Religion didn't cause anything, this is the 1st thing that people need to understand).

Religion is man's interpretation of God, without man would there be a God? Open to debate, but it's fair to say the monkeys, cats, fish etc. wouldn't be living their lives by the way of the Qu'ran/ Bible etc. if we weren't here. It's a philisophical point in the same way as "if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a noise?", you can debate either way. But in reference to your point above, I believe that without men, religion wouldn't exist and so you cannot make a distinction between the two. Religion does have good points - the general morales from the allegories have shaped society for the better - but unquestioning belief by some has led to some terrible acts.

As for atheism, I actually am very liberal when it comes to people believing or not believing. I just argue my points on here as to how I came to my decision. My parents believe in god, some of my brothers too. I went to church when I was young, looked at all the evidence as I grew up and as I studied sciences I finally settled on atheism. As someone pointed out above, people seem to think that atheists are lost, confused or simply haven't taken enough interest in religion to understand it. Actually, to me being an atheiest is probably the hardest choice to come to as in every major culture they bombard you with religion from such a young age that people are automatically conditioned to accept it. Being able to question what you've been told and coming up with a different viewpoint is a hard thing to do.

Believe if you want to believe, if you feel it enriches your life or explains some things you don't understand then it's probably a good thing. Just don't try to convert me, I'm happy with my meaning of life being to have children, share my life with as many people as I can and then become worm food when I die.

No matter how philosophical, theological or scientific line of reasonings that we'll use to prove or disprove a point, still there are things around us that can't be explained. There are loopholes in every angle.


My point - LEAP OF FAITH.

Very well said scot!

scot1870 wrote:

Nick81 wrote:

If everyone was an aethiest the world would be a much better place

Highly simplistic statement that is based on absolutely nothing. Yes we live in world where many wars, many conflicts are caused by MEN in the name of religion (notice the way I put it? Religion didn't cause anything, this is the 1st thing that people need to understand).

Religion is man's interpretation of God, without man would there be a God? Open to debate, but it's fair to say the monkeys, cats, fish etc. wouldn't be living their lives by the way of the Qu'ran/ Bible etc. if we weren't here. It's a philisophical point in the same way as "if a tree falls in the woods and nobody is around to hear it, does it make a noise?", you can debate either way. But in reference to your point above, I believe that without men, religion wouldn't exist and so you cannot make a distinction between the two. Religion does have good points - the general morales from the allegories have shaped society for the better - but unquestioning belief by some has led to some terrible acts.

As for atheism, I actually am very liberal when it comes to people believing or not believing. I just argue my points on here as to how I came to my decision. My parents believe in god, some of my brothers too. I went to church when I was young, looked at all the evidence as I grew up and as I studied sciences I finally settled on atheism. As someone pointed out above, people seem to think that atheists are lost, confused or simply haven't taken enough interest in religion to understand it. Actually, to me being an atheiest is probably the hardest choice to come to as in every major culture they bombard you with religion from such a young age that people are automatically conditioned to accept it. Being able to question what you've been told and coming up with a different viewpoint is a hard thing to do.

Believe if you want to believe, if you feel it enriches your life or explains some things you don't understand then it's probably a good thing. Just don't try to convert me, I'm happy with my meaning of life being to have children, share my life with as many people as I can and then become worm food when I die.

Good post. Big difference with your prior statement. And FYI if the conversion comment was directed at me, I am not trying to do anything. I am not exactly what you would call a religious person. But I have a lot of respect for people who believe in something, whatever that thing might be. As long as they don't force it on me of course...