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true that.

PARANOID wrote:Why should anyone be blamed? And for what?
Isn't it great that the lebanese are choosing for their own now? The recent goverment is a very corrupt one and I'm glad it's being dropped.The ones rallying in the streets are not Syrians or Iranians (like Saad hariri keeps telling himself and the minority supporting him), they are christian and muslim lebanese people who are having their say.I totally support them.

Oh also, someone made a good comment about the democracy happening in lebanon and some countries not likeing the results, therefore shoving the "terrorists" and syrians and iranians in the whole thing, when it's clear as day light that these are only the lebanese choosing what they see best for their country.Noone should be blamed, what's happening is good.Whoever dosent like it is a hypocrite who bitches about democracy when in fact it's not democracy that they want for others, but they want things to go their way and want puppet goverments getting pwned by them.

This is gold. This is just the tip of the iceberg you are talking about. Try actually talking to someone living in Lebanon to see if they share your enthusiasm. Oh man I had promised myself never to post in this section of the forums, it's just pointless.

Oh and by the way, regarding the Syrians/Iranians thingy... Well I saw videos of buses coming all the way from Syria to join the "democracy" celebrations in Downtown Beirut. And living quite close to Downtown, my family has quite a nice view of some of the individuals who are there. Bet good ol' Aoun and his allies don't show that on his website or on TV. Bet you'll be singing another tune once "they" manage to launch a full conflit between Sunnis and Chiites.

Nick81 wrote:

PARANOID wrote:Why should anyone be blamed? And for what?
Isn't it great that the lebanese are choosing for their own now? The recent goverment is a very corrupt one and I'm glad it's being dropped.The ones rallying in the streets are not Syrians or Iranians (like Saad hariri keeps telling himself and the minority supporting him), they are christian and muslim lebanese people who are having their say.I totally support them.

Oh also, someone made a good comment about the democracy happening in lebanon and some countries not likeing the results, therefore shoving the "terrorists" and syrians and iranians in the whole thing, when it's clear as day light that these are only the lebanese choosing what they see best for their country.Noone should be blamed, what's happening is good.Whoever dosent like it is a hypocrite who bitches about democracy when in fact it's not democracy that they want for others, but they want things to go their way and want puppet goverments getting pwned by them.

This is gold. This is just the tip of the iceberg you are talking about. Try actually talking to someone living in Lebanon to see if they share your enthusiasm. Oh man I had promised myself never to post in this section of the forums, it's just pointless.

Oh and by the way, regarding the Syrians/Iranians thingy... Well I saw videos of buses coming all the way from Syria to join the "democracy" celebrations in Downtown Beirut. And living quite close to Downtown, my family has quite a nice view of some of the individuals who are there. Bet good ol' Aoun and his allies don't show that on his website or on TV. Bet you'll be singing another tune once "they" manage to launch a full conflit between Sunnis and Chiites.

Yes, I know. a lot of people in lebanon do share my enthusiasim.Only cause you don't dosent mean the rest are all like you, learn to talk only for yourself when you're in the minority. there've been a lot of interviews and videos on the people celebrating and most of them ARE lebanese people. They even asked this one old lebanese guy "what do you think about the claims from people saying that you are iranians" and he was like "do I look iranian to you?" they even showed lots of christian lebanese people and whatnot. You're only lying to yourself if you think all those people are not really from lebanon or that the majority is against what's happening. And yes, there probably are syrians and whoever joining the masses in all this.so what? people are having fun for once.

And I don't know what exactly I'm missing that is so "bad" in this. really, why are you against what the people of the country want? why is it wrong to establish a new goverment which actually keeps it's promises and makes changes? I believe all this is for the good of Lebanon and it's people, if you think otherwise fine. you're still in the minority

I shouldn't have posted here. What's happening in Lebanon right now, what lead to it, and the consequences of all this is beyond your and many ppl's comprehension here. No offense meant by the way, but as tiny as Lebanon might be it has a pretty complex history.

Just do yourself and everyone else here who DOES have an idea about what's going on in Lebanon a favour and try to respect those who have families back there and dream of a better future, one where we could actually go back and live in a country that has no equal.

Jamal wrote:Iran is rebuilding lebanon where do you think the majority of the money for the reconstruction of the country is coming from.. an iran is the only country that help'd lebanon while they were being ruthlessly bombed by them jew's .. even though alot might think hezbollah is a syrian backed group .. its actually an iranian backed group .. iranian train'd an iranian armed..

And you know this how

Concs just keep away from this section. It's useless...

Nick81 wrote:I shouldn't have posted here. What's happening in Lebanon right now, what lead to it, and the consequences of all this is beyond your and many ppl's comprehension here. No offense meant by the way, but as tiny as Lebanon might be it has a pretty complex history.

Just do yourself and everyone else here who DOES have an idea about what's going on in Lebanon a favour and try to respect those who have families back there and dream of a better future, one where we could actually go back and live in a country that has no equal.

Its useless but amusing (without being disrespectful if that makes sense)

Actually I do have family from my dad's side (not very close) joining the celebrations in lebanon, and they just called yesterday. and although I'm more palestinian than lebanese, I know about lebanon more than what I know about the palestinian israeli conflict.So I'm not totally ignorant.I might not know everything but it dosent make my opinion invalid.I know enough to comment on this. and with all my respect to you and your family, you can't shut up everyone who has a differing opinion than you everytime something like this comes up by claiming they are being disrespectful or insensitive.I think you read a lot into what I wrote, I'm just saying- I'm happy a corrupt, US backed goverment is falling.This is what I think of the recent goverment. If you're gonna take everything personally then I agree you shouldn't read the topics in this forum.

And anyways, I'm not gonna post in this anymore, cause eww politics make you wrinkle fast.

PARANOID wrote:Actually I do have family from my dad's side (not very close) joining the celebrations in lebanon, and they just called yesterday. and although I'm more palestinian than lebanese, I know about lebanon more than what I know about the palestinian israeli conflict.So I'm not totally ignorant.I might not know everything but it dosent make my opinion invalid.I know enough to comment on this. and with all my respect to you and your family, you can't shut up everyone who has a differing opinion than you everytime something like this comes up by claiming they are being disrespectful or insensitive.I think you read a lot into what I wrote, I'm just saying- I'm happy a corrupt, US backed goverment is falling.This is what I think of the recent goverment. If you're gonna take everything personally then I agree you shouldn't read the topics in this forum.

And anyways, I'm not gonna post in this anymore, cause eww politics make you wrinkle fast.

Aren't you a troubled teenager looking for attention? Heed Nick's advise. For your own sake.

Isn't it great that the lebanese are choosing for their own now?

soon there will be civil war there too

Concord wrote:

Jamal wrote:Iran is rebuilding lebanon where do you think the majority of the money for the reconstruction of the country is coming from.. an iran is the only country that help'd lebanon while they were being ruthlessly bombed by them jew's .. even though alot might think hezbollah is a syrian backed group .. its actually an iranian backed group .. iranian train'd an iranian armed..

And you know this how

same way you know hitler killed 6 million jew's

Nick81 wrote:I shouldn't have posted here. What's happening in Lebanon right now, what lead to it, and the consequences of all this is beyond your and many ppl's comprehension here. No offense meant by the way, but as tiny as Lebanon might be it has a pretty complex history.

Just do yourself and everyone else here who DOES have an idea about what's going on in Lebanon a favour and try to respect those who have families back there and dream of a better future, one where we could actually go back and live in a country that has no equal.

Where is Kanelli to complain about someone insulting her intelligence and lack of knowledge .... ?

Jamal wrote:

Concord wrote:

Jamal wrote:Iran is rebuilding lebanon where do you think the majority of the money for the reconstruction of the country is coming from.. an iran is the only country that help'd lebanon while they were being ruthlessly bombed by them jew's .. even though alot might think hezbollah is a syrian backed group .. its actually an iranian backed group .. iranian train'd an iranian armed..

And you know this how

same way you know hitler killed 6 million jew's

And how do you know, "I know" that Think it only takes a second.

So, if Hezbollah and its supporters overthrow the government, what happens next. Will there be a new round of democratic elections, or will a Hezbollah government be installed? If Hezbollah is not supported and they lose after a vote, will they be happy with this or will there be more demonstrations to overthrow the new government?

Why did people protest to kick Syria out of the country after the murder of Hariri, only now to support pro-Syrian groups like Hezbollah in an effort to dump the current government?

Are some people protesting mainly to get rid of US influence in Lebanon without thinking carefully about what kind of groups they might be installing into power? An interesting quote from a BBC news article - http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6201084.stm, "We will stay here until the fall of the government which is under the tutelage of the United States," one protester, Nadia Assaf, told the French news agency, AFP. "We do not want any tutelage over Lebanon, not Syrian, not Iranian, not Western." It is wishful thinking, but clearly it seems that it is hard to avoid some of those countries interfering. Even if they shake off what they deem to be strong US influence, that still leaves Syria and Iran. Very strange how anti-Syrian politicians in Lebanon end up murdered, don't you think?

I dont think it matters at this point who they are loyal to, or what the next goverments loyalities are. There is a point here that is core to bringing this goverment down. It has been proven that this goverment condoned the Israeli bombing over Lebanon this summer in hopes of destroying hezbollah, a goverment like this should never stay in power.

Its f-ing baffling to read this .. describing the current goverment as the "sole Israeli achievement in the recent war" !!!!!!!!

"Israel said Sunday it was following events in Lebanon "with the utmost attention", while Washington has denounced what it termed as "threats aimed at toppling Lebanon's legitimate and democratically elected government". Tel Aviv is on high political alert as the Lebanese opposition is apparently determined to topple the unconstitutional government of Fouad Saniora and form a national unity government. Haaretz daily said that Israeli senior officials are concerned that if Saniora's government is toppled then the "sole Israeli achievement in the recent war", according to Haaretz, would go with the wind. A number of Israeli ministers stressed Israel should not stand silent to what they described as a reversal of the situation in Lebanon. For his part, Defense Minister Amir Peretz asked Israeli intelligence services to closely follow up the situation in Lebanon. Trade Minister Eli Yishai said, "What is going on in Lebanon forces us to prepare even for the possibility of a coup, we must prepare for any scenario and must not stay indifferent." Foreign Minister Tsibi Livni called on Israeli officials not to publicly support Saniora's government so as not to weaken it. "

Huh?

All the commentators I've heard/read say the war has weakened the Lebanese government.



[Sigh]

nothing new. it is always weak

It seems it was Israel's intention to crush Hezbollah, and if Hezbollah manages to incite people to overthrow the government, and possibly install a Hezbollah government - then their sole purpose to get rid of Hezbollah would have failed.

The Lebanese government appeared very weak to me, but you know what - Hezbollah took major actions on behalf of the country and Hezbollah has never won enough votes or been a strong enough force in the government before the war. Only now are some Lebanese people more strongly in favour of Hezbollah. So, I can understand why the government might have reacted how they did during the war.

What ? did i read this right ? You are saying its justifiable for the lebanese goverment to condone a foreign army to bomb the shit out of the country in a bid to weaken an opposing party ??????

Um, where did I say that was okay? Should I conclude that you think it is okay for a guerrilla group and minor opposing party to instigate and wage war on behalf of the whole country? Look at what Hezbollah brought down on everyone's heads with their little attack and kidnap across the border. It was a stupid move. Israel completely over-reacted, but that is what they can be counted on to do. They want to crush their opposition.

Lets face the facts - the international community does not recognise actions by guerrilla groups as legitimate. As you can see, actions by a government army carry more weight and avoid the words "terrorist" being attached to them. (Even when government armies do act like terrorists essentially i.e. US and Israeli armies) The war should have been Lebanon vs. Israel, not Hezbollah vs. Israel.

Noam Chomsky pointed out in a lecture in September this year that the Israelis had kidnapped Lebanese citizens earlier that very week - from inside Lebanon (I think he might have said it was the day before, but I can't quite recall).

Therefore the whole premise that the war unleashed by Israel was because a couple of soldiers were taken prisoner does not stand up to scrutiny. From the initial capture of the soldiers, Hizbollah have consistently said they will exchange them for the many Lebanese held illegally in Israel.

The soldiers are still captured, the Lebanese captured by Israel before the war are still in captivity.

Cheers,
Shafique

Kanelli, oh gawd you are dense!

The REALITIES of this war have been discussed here before and you find it in non-biased media, it seems you do have a bad memory though or you just refuse to see things clearly. Israel WAS PLANNING on attacking Lebanon again, that silly azz excuse of the kidnappings was just that, an excuse!

And the International community that you mention has little credibility my dear, after what it has allowed so called legitimate governments to get away with (Iraq) and what it has ignored (Sudan, occupied territories, etc. etc.).