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The Koran says:
Sura 112: 2 God is the Eternal! 3 He begets not and is not begotten!

The Bible says:
John 3:16
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. .
Acts 13:33
God ..hath raised up Jesus again; as it is also written in the second psalm, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee.


The Koran says:
[Sura 8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.


The Bible says:
2 Timothy 1:7
For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.


The Koran says:
[Sura 5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people


The Bible says:
Matthew 5:44
But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;


The Koran says:
[Sura 9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

The Bible says:
2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The Koran says:
[sura 2:194] (under the law of) retaliation; whoever then acts aggressively against you, inflict injury on him according to the injury he has inflicted on you

The Bible says:
Romans 12:21
Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.
1 Thessalonians 5:15
See that none render evil for evil unto any man; but ever follow that which is good, both among yourselves, and to all men.
Romans 12:19
Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.

Koran online:
http://www.hti.umich.edu/k/koran/browse.html

Bible online:
http://bible.gospelcom.net/cgi-bin/bible[/b]

Look abs, its my humblest request that you abandon this thread and this line of argument, coz it can turn sour very soon...Wherever we're from and whatever we do, we're here to consolidate our similarities not polarize ourselves further by pointless argument...this is not constructive at all...Lets leave specific religions and scripture out of this forum please...what is so wrong in agreeing to disagree? Must everyone conform to the same views to be accepted by you (same question to Liban in the other thread on the same topic) ? Does having different beliefs make one a lesser person? No I don't think so, coz whatever religion/nationality/race you belong to, the one thread that holds the entire fabric of the world together is humanity, and IMHO, thats something that nothing should be able to tear asunder

Heres a link to research on the confirmation of the Holy Bible written in the Quran.

http://answering-islam.org.uk/Green/onbible.htm
The Quran states that the Holy Bible is the Word of God.
That includes the Torah (Book of Moses) and The Gospel (Jesus).
The Quran also states that Muhammad confirms the Torah and the Gospel of Jesus to be authentic because he himself have copies of the Torah and the Gospel of Jesus.

Heres a link about the many versions of the Holy Bible:
http://www.victorious.org/translat.htm

The true light about why the Bible is always being "reinterpreted"

The dead Sea Scrolls.

About two thousand years elapsed between the time the scrolls were deposited in the caves of the barren hills surrounding the Dead Sea and their discovery in 1947. The fact that they survived for twenty centuries, that they were found accidentally by Bedouin shepherds, that they are the largest and oldest body of manuscripts relating to the Bible and to the time of Jesus of Nazareth make them a truly remarkable archaeological find. When compared with modern day Holy Bible, it has been proven that they are identical .
[/b]

Nik wrote:

Look abs, its my humblest request that you abandon this thread and this line of argument, coz it can turn sour very soon...Wherever we're from and whatever we do, we're here to consolidate our similarities not polarize ourselves further by pointless argument...this is not constructive at all...Lets leave specific religions and scripture out of this forum please...what is so wrong in agreeing to disagree? Must everyone conform to the same views to be accepted by you (same question to Liban in the other thread on the same topic) ? Does having different beliefs make one a lesser person? No I don't think so, coz whatever religion/nationality/race you belong to, the one thread that holds the entire fabric of the world together is humanity, and IMHO, thats something that nothing should be able to tear asunder

well now....this forum here says its...let me see now...

Politics, Philosophy and Religion Forum.

So what do we actually do here?

Oh yes!! Discuss Politics,Philisophy and RELIGION.

You don't go into a library and say: "Here come on, why are you guys reading here when you should be having a party?"

OR

Walk in Disco and say :" Come now guys, why are you jumping around like a mad man instead of helping the poor children of Africa.

NOR do YOU

Approach a dining man in a DINER and say: "Why are you eating here?"

Don't be a fool. If you can't take the heat, you should not even walk into the kitchen.

This is what we do here. We discuss, argue, agree,disagree and sometimes talk rubbish in a discussion form. But I can see some are more incline in rubbish then real discussions of any value.

Peace mate.
Don't mean to be rude but sometimes ignorance is better dealt with WITH a smack in the face.

Man...that felt good.

(Forgive me GOd)

Lets be honest abs, everytime you do say something like that, you DO mean to be rude...and please you are not interested in discussion at all, just in evangelising the rest of the world...discussion entails both talking and listening, you do a lot of the former, none of the latter....just because I don't want to listen to your restrictive, hypocritical stranglehold on reality does not make ignorant, it just means I have better things to concern myself with than becoming your devotee...oh and I certainly don't need a 'smack in the head' from the likes of you thanks...I'm not gonna argue semantics with you, this does say religion forum as well, but you are a spammer with religious intentions as far as I'm concerned, and now you're gettin downright offensive (as is Liban)...now please form another childish reply to this message so you can feel good about yourself, I'm not going to reply to it so rest assured you will have the last word, am sure that will send you into ecstasy.

Whats the point of this thread? What are you trying to prove?

Are you trying to inflame passions? Because, to be perfectly honest that is your intent.

You are a crazy and you are vile and you have absolutly no right to speak for or about Islam. You never did have that right and you never will for as long as you continue with your threads of veiled insults against Islam and as such God Himself.

My God forgive you is all I will say here.... You are one confused spirit... How shameful...

And Nik, I hope you didn't see my post as insulting right now because I have kept civil and will do so. The only way to counter abs indirect assaults against Islam is to be civilized and not attack... God asks of us to pity the person that fails to understand and accept him... I pity abs...

Answering islam is a christian bigit website, propagating harted and misquoting any other book not from christianism origins,

for that visit, the miracles of pervert apostles of christianism at http://www.answering-christianity.com/ac.htm

or visit a former christins preacher website www.islamtomorrow.com
or another fromer christians website. www.bilalphilips.com
or another christian convert which i will the number to sincere searchers of truth....

Plus another german family converted to ISlam in sharjah, Mother, Uncle and three sons,

Plus another british brother converted to Islam currently working in media city dubai

PLus another christian convert daoing various programs on Sharjah TV, hosting and inviting new muslims to chat.....

you can bash about the biblism some where else

Facts about Christ-ians

1: God like an egg = Trinity'ism
2: the suicidal god on the cross
3: Preachers as child molestors and rapists, drunkered, all forgiven in the end by god
4: Prostitution as women freedom in christian dominated countries
5: Murder, crime, rape, highest in Christian dominated countries
6: Holy Bible?, the word bible doest even exist in the bible
7: Original Sin, spare the guilt of my fore fathers please!
8: Capitalism, communism, fascism, imperialism,Nazism, terrorism, colonialism on shoot of christianism, stalin, Hitler, Elizabeth, every president of America, mass murderers of this centiry were former christ-ians.... Killed alost half billion pople in this century alone
9: Never accepted black to be equal, some love being spread they gods of Christianism....

i dont need to say more...

You need to seriously know about the truth only then reply and then i will answer all your questions.....

Dont start the thread by comparing a mans book "bible" with one true Almighty God's word "The Glorious Qur'an"

Amen.

Ok I think this thread needs to be deleted before it turns nasty. I totally agree with Nik.

Abs stop your rants and insightdubai dude whatever your name is you make yourself no better by ranting in return - you're all saddos!

The only thing that rings totally true is we all belong to the human race.

I don't care about your religion, I don't care where you come from, the only thing I care about is people being civil to one another and it seems many of you are incapable of that.

We all belong to the human race. A race created by God Himself, a race that was given the power of thought, logic and rational (no these items are not related).

We are all God's servants. I agree, we must all live in peace. That is why Islam means peace in Arabic. Islam is the religion of peace.

Bless you Chocoholic, bless you Nik, bless you insightdubai, bless you dbxsoul, bless you Pumpkin Escobar, and yes, bless you too abs and I hope you get past your evangilism for it does nobody any good. Bless you all on this kicka$$ forum...

Peace out y'all!!

Liban, you're just as bad as abs for denouncing other people's beliefs. Not everyone believes in Islam, not everyone believes in Christinanity what gives you the right to chastise people for not believing what you do?

As far as I'm concerned people are free to believe what ever they want, I have no problem with that. What I do have a huge problem with is other people enforcing what they believe on others, it's wrong.

Thank you all for your honest replies.
I am here to compare scriptures hoping to have more insights into Islam.
You think its easy for a Christian to accept Islam without some SERIOUS questionings?

OR easy for a Muslim to accept Christianity without SERIOUS questionings?

Do you think a person can blindly accept a belief without questioning?

I am particularly disapointed with Liban after all these time we've been discussing this topic. You refuse to look into my mind and simply call my religion a cult and me a lunatic.

I do thank InsightDubai for the info I will definitely take a good look at them. This is the kind of feedback I want from a discussion board, more info.
And as for Nik...well I normally just read 2 lines of what he types and decides not to waste my precious few seconds on unproductive ramblings.

Like I say, this is a discussion board. If you are the sort that gets sick of religious discussion, the topic title should have warned you. Why did you come inside to have a read and then tell me I should not talk about it?
The title is for selected viewers or people who are interested in the topic.
I mean look at Pumpkin, he had enough and stopped coming in. He the sensible one.

The best way to get more info on Islam is to talk to a Muslim.
I know there are Christians converting to Muslims and vice versa.
Aren;t you curious why and what made them change their minds?
Well I am.
I am determine to look deep into it.
BElieve it or not I am not angry in any sense but just hope everybody to cool down and resume the discussion.

And thanks again InsightDubai. You input is most precious.

InsightDubai Quotes:

1: God like an egg = Trinity'ism

I don't understand the term "like an egg". Rather its the Trinity. Father,Son and Spirit. 3 but 1. No one really understand how that can be. But we believe it by faith because its in the Bible

2: the suicidal god on the cross

He was not suicidal. But He did know He was gonna die.

3: Preachers as child molestors and rapists, drunkered, all forgiven in the end by god

Well now, thats a bit unfair. Isolated cases. You just tipped over an entire boat of people with ONE bamboo pole. You never heard of a "bad christian or a bad Muslim? There are way more Muslim terrorists I assure you.

4: Prostitution as women freedom in christian dominated countries

Prostitution is against the law of Moses so I don't know where you get that from. Its a forbidden thing in the Bible

5: Murder, crime, rape, highest in Christian dominated countries

You mean in America. Well I have to agree with that. But we don't question what God does now, do we?

6: Holy Bible?, the word bible doest even exist in the bible

The word Bible simply means a "collection of various books". Its ...not a word that you associate with God. Have you ever heard of "The Photoshop Bible" ? I assure you the word "bible" is not a button found in Photoshop.

7: Original Sin, spare the guilt of my fore fathers please!

The original sin is that of Adam. The Quran stated that too. And it does not say "spare the guilt of my forefathers but the sins of all who call upon His name.

8: Capitalism, communism, fascism, imperialism,Nazism, terrorism, colonialism on shoot of christianism, stalin, Hitler, Elizabeth, every president of America, mass murderers of this centiry were former christ-ians.... Killed alost half billion pople in this century alone

Look, there are many out there that claim themselves as Christian but do not know the words with understanding. If they do, they would not have done what they did. I am sure you will see the same thing happening in the Islamic community. A real Muslim don't kidnap a school full of children and kill them now do they? NOr do they tie bombs to their body and run into innocent people. Nor do they plant bombs on buses. Those people claim themselves to be Islamic millitants. But I know for a fact these people don't read the Quran or know much about it. They simply call themselves Muslims.

9: Never accepted black to be equal, some love being spread they gods of Christianism....

This statement is so untrue its funny.
One of the biggest Revival happened in South Africa. And the black brothers in our church are very very welcome and very looked after. They are so devoted its a pleasure to be with.

Thank you.
Peace and God Bless, brother.

http://www.ahmed-deedat.co.za/
http://www.ais.org/~maftab/christ.html
http://www.muhammad.net/mnstc/
http://jamaat.net/deedat.htm
http://media.isnet.org/off/Islam/Deedat/

hi there ,,,,, first of all i would agree that this place is for discussion , althought i see that the level of discussion is weak , even myself , i dont mean anyone in particular .

well, abs, dont take my talking as an offence but this is an old way of acussing islam , and yes i would say acussing ,, coz you are picky here ,, i mean you are picking some Ayas ( verses ) and just post them ,, well, let me tell you one thing my friend , each verse in the Holy Quraan has a reason why it was sent to Prophet Muhammad ( Peace be upon him ) and it was in arabic ,, Now by taking any translated one without taking in consideration the previous and following verse will be A GREAT MISTAKE , you cant just read any verse and give your opinion by making a ( flow ) comparison between it and something in the Bible . the letteraly translated verses usually dont get you any where , you have to understand them ,, and ofcourse that must be through someone who can explain .

well,, i said its an old way ,, coz most of the chrisians who want to acuse islam with whatever they want to , are using just the same way. i am seeing them all the time on some arabic channels ,, they are just using the same way you did in your post . not only that <<< some of them are using a small part of a verse (wich contains any order of a harsh attitude ) without even completing it ,, so they can mislead the viewers or listners .

but anyway ,,, if you find any order of killing ,or any act that you might not like ( as a christian who believes in love and peace !! ) that coz islam and of course Quraan has been sent to organize the life of Human beings ,, ( i am saying human beings coz its a message to everyone ) , and if you understand the life my friend ,, you will know that it should contain a kind of harsh ( if we can call it so ) acts sometimes, coz you have to punish the bad peaple . but even these acts are always limited , How limited ??? i will give you an example : ((( once on the times of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) , a woman commited adultry and got pregnant of it , , afterwords she went to the prophet to admit it and to be pured by the punishment that Islam has stated (which is : to be thrown by stones to death ,if she/he is a married one and committed this sin ). So , when she went there she said : Oh Messenger of Allah , purify me , the prophet he turned his face as a sing of JUST GO , ( ofcourse he wanted to give her a chance to change her mind and just go home ) , she said the same again ,,and the prophet turned his face again , she did it for the third time , then the prophet said : go till you diliver the baby , she went and came back with the baby after few months , she asked for purifying her again , then the prophet said : go till you finish feeding him ( from breast of course ), (( by the way , its the child's right in islam to be feeded from the breast of his mother for two years )) she went and came back after two years with the baby in her hands holding a piece of bread as a sing of finishing his breast feeding , then the prophet pbuh , took the baby , and asked : Who will be the sponser of this baby and he will be my companion in the heavens , a man took the baby, then the prophet purified her , by throwing her with stones to death , during the excuting of purifying , a man threw a stone at her and cursed her , the prophet told him : Dont curse her , i swer by Allah that she has got a forgivness from God that if this forgiveness has been divided between the people of the city " Al Madinah " it would have been enough for its people .

i know that its a long story ,, but its one of toooo much ,, not only that story i have ,, i even have stories of the Mercy of the Prophet Muhammad towards the nonbelievers ,,, when the prophet has entered Holy Mecca , after its people have kicked him out of it ,, he said : Oh people , what do you think i will be doing with you ? they said : we know you are a good brother and a son of a good brother . he said : Go ,, you are free .

now what do you get from this ???? i know its not in the Quraan ,,but its some stories of the prophet of the Quraan , even in Quraan ,, i dont know how you didnt come to know about some verses which talk about christains ,, for like : you will find the christinas are the closest to you Muslims .

now ,,for all the terror that is being happening in the whole world ,,, even the doers of it are considered muslims ,, well they are not . killing civilians is NOT ALLOWED in Islam . and this is obvious in the advice that the prophet Muhammad was giving to the army leaders when he used to send an army . DONT KILL OLD PEOPLE , DONT KILL CHILDREN , DONT KILL WOMEN , DONT CUT THE TREES , DONT BURN HOUSES , DONT FIGHT WHO DOESNT FIGHT YOU .

you want more ??? there was a juwish man who lived near to the Prophet's house , he used to throw dirt at the Prophet's door , then for some days the prophet noticed that the dirt is is not being thrown at his door ,, so he asked about the juwish man , they told him he is very ill at home and cant leave the bed , so the Prophet pbuh ,, went to visit him and see how he was .
FOR GOD'S SAKE WHAT DO YOU CALL THIS ????? do you think that a prophet of a bad relegion would do that ????

Islam has to be studied ,, if you want to know about it . not just take whatever you want and post it ...


any way ,,, i am not tiered of speaking about this ,, but its just that i have to go ,,, there are some links above ,, of a scholar called Ahmad Deedat ,,, he has many works and many debates with Preachers ,, i got soem ,, but you may make a wider search on him .

I will repeat myself because most people who attack me don't seem to understand my message. I am simply saying what most of the Muslims on this list have said, that Islam is a great religion of peace and understanding and I find it sad that people mis-understand this.

I mean if one is too lazy or unwilling to want to learn in detail and find out more about Islam, then that person need only stop at the begininning. The beginning means saying to yourself, "hey I know of the existance of Islam and Islam means peace, hmmm... food for thought". Just the name says it all my friends...

So how easily a belief can turn dangerous? This is what drives me away from organized religion of every sort.

Thank you Castellano.
I see you made a good point there.
I have done what some Muslim had done to verses in the Bible and I apologise for that.

Now..
Please explain the scriptures from the Quran that I have posted "out of context" as you meant so that I can have a better understanding of the full context of the verses stated.
I simply want to understand why certain things are said the way it is said in the Quran.

I understand the violence that happened back then. The Holy Bible ,too, have many mass killings. God commanded Joshua to enter the city and kill every living thing inside. Including infants and children. That is cruel in human term but then God said "for they carry the roots of evil".

And for Liban

mean if one is too lazy or unwilling to want to learn in detail and find out more about Islam

Lazy??? Did you not see the kind of reading I have been doing? Do you not see the amount of scriputes from the Quran I dug up to put it there for you to comment on?
Instead of explaining where I get it wrong you simply say "you are lazy and refuse to read into it". I guess I will just have to work harder without your help...is that what you mean?

If you see a mistake I make, it should be your duty as a Muslim to educate someone that IS looking into it.

If you do know your Quran like you claim, then please explain why the Quran say what it says. If I am not interested in the Quran, I would not have read it . Online reading that is.
Being a Christain trying to know more about the Quran will naturally bring up alot of "misunderstandings" and "tough questions".

I have always answer YOUR tough questions so you should do the same.

And let me tell you this, the BIGGEST insult you can throw at a Christian is to tell them that Jesus did not die on the cross. So ask yourself how many times have you said that and I didn't jump on you.

The death and ressurrection of Jesus is the ROOT. Everything else in the bible pales beside this incident.
So just chill. You are losing your cool.

Dude I didn't refer to you as being lazy... I just said that people, in general, who attack Islam are too lazy or unwilling to learn about it....

You do seem sincere in wanting to learn about it and thats fine, but your out of context quotes, or attacking the Quran saying its not the true word of God (istakhfirullah) kinda made me angry.

In Islam we cannot attack another unless God commands us to, if you feel like I attacked you then I was wrong to do so.

As two example of only attacking or defending when God Wills us to is the following:

- Only after God okayed the Prophet Mohammad to command his followes to attack the Meccans did he do so. Despite being hassled by his closest advisors for the longest time.

- On the Medinan's first pilgrimage to Mecca, the Meccans showed up at the Muslim encampment where they were relaxing during the long desert trip, the tormented them, pushed them, verbally attacked them. The Muslims just stood their ground and did not respond. God forbad violence.

Question for you. I don't understand what you mean by "the death and resurrection is the root". The root of what?

Liban wrote:
Question for you. I don't understand what you mean by "the death and resurrection is the root". The root of what?

he ment the root of the christian belief .

correct me abs if i am wrong .

Pumpkin Escobar wrote:So how easily a belief can turn dangerous? This is what drives me away from organized religion of every sort.

what do you mean by : a belief turn dangerous ???? why should it ????

abs wrote:Thank you Castellano.
Now..
Please explain the scriptures from the Quran that I have posted "out of context" as you meant so that I can have a better understanding of the full context of the verses stated.
I simply want to understand why certain things are said the way it is said in the Quran.

.

ok ,, now its 4.00 a.m. ,, tomorrow i will give you all the explanations . i have to go to sleep now ,,sorry ireally would like to do it now ,but i have work early in the f...ing morning . and explaining all that you asked about will take quite a long time .

Pumpkin Escobar wrote:So how easily a belief can turn dangerous? This is what drives me away from organized religion of every sort.

I think what Pumpkin means by this is that people belive so strongly about their religion that it blinds them and stops them being open or tolerant of anything else. i.e. Muslim fanatics who think all non-belivers should die!

Chocoholic wrote:I think what Pumpkin means by this is that people belive so strongly about their religion that it blinds them and stops them being open or tolerant of anything else. i.e. Muslim fanatics who think all non-belivers should die!

Again an attack against Muslims... Why is it that when we speak of religious extremists we always say Muslims this and Muslims that?

Why don't we speak of Jewish extremists in Israel, or Evangilical fanatics in the US that would like nothing more than to make the US a Christian theological state (looks more and more like one with George), or the entire Zionist movment, a movement whose core is as extremist as it is racist and hostile to everyone non-Jewish... Goyum to use their derogatory term that people in the west tend to use freehandidly for some bizarre reason...

Liban, don't get me wrong, it was an example!

It's a shame that a small gorup of people tarnish an entire religion, but you don't see any others taking part in such atrocious acts around the globe 'In the name of God' it's pathetic.

The Koran says:
[Sura 5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people


Hi tehre,

At teh out set u must understand that the holy quran was not revealed to prohet muhammed(p.b.u.h) at one go..
It was reavealed within a span of 23 yrs, at various instances which years later was compiled into teh holy quran by teh caliphs after prophet's death.
Durin teh lifetime of teh prophet maany of his followers had already zealously learnt teh quran byheart..
Many of teh chapters in teh quran were messages conveyed to teh propet and muslims for teh instance in which teh revelation took place.

The Koran says:
[Sura 5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

teh above verse was revealed at a time when teh prophet and his followers,at allah's command were preparing for war against the unbeleivers..
Teh prohet had chrsitians and jews in his camp who supported his cause.Actually they were spies for teh unbelivers...This verse was a message for teh prophet hintin this...that he shudnot trust jews n christians for teh holywar..
This verse was meant only for that particular juncture.It was never meant as a prescription for eternal hatred for christians n jews...
There are verses later in th quran that clearly mentions to be amicable with teh people of teh book. I f u had read teh teh chapter from which this verse was taken..u wud hav understood this..rather than relyin on tits n bits from islam bashers..
If u r really serious abt knowin abt islam..get an english translation of teh quran by dr Yusuf Ali..It has commentary too...u'll find it in all bookstores too..
I really appreciate ur interest abt islam..but brother, teh means taht u have chosen is not perfect..especially teh way u express it at forums...

Sura 8.12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

teh above verse too was meant as a motivation for teh muslims...tehy were facin an army 5 times their force...It was their faith in allah and his prophet that won muslims their war...teh verse was meant only for that instance...never for permanent warfare..
the links that castellano gave are gud do check them out..

I don't understand why this thread was locked...
The discussion is quite interesting and informational.
This thread is open.

I concur.