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What are your views about abortion

Personal belief, religion based, cultural views are all welcome. Share it.

Not morally or religiously against abortion as a procedure - so I am pro.

Morally against it as a way of birth control though.

Islamic opinion is that abortion is allowed under medical necessity and that it is not 'taking a life' if takes place before 3 months (but even after 3 months, medical necessity takes precedence over saving the life of foetus regardless of consequences)

Ditto.

I'll be against it when the people who voted "against" offer a better alternative. people will always have abortions even if it got banned, no pregnancy can be maintained when faced by a couple strong punches to the tummy.
If you're worried about murder then go help kids in africa stay alive. not worry about unborn fetuses who will later be abandonned by their parents. if you want to stop an abortion, then you should adopt the baby after it's born.the so called mom dosent want it so she's getting rid of it before it's too late, before the fetus becomes an unwanted baby. if you're humane alternative is to pile them all up in an orphnage then simply shut up.

Except for Sensitive medical reasons such as:

- the child or the mother have a slim chance or cant survive if the pregnancy is continued
- child will be a retard/abnormal upon birth

I am personally against abortion. I believe it is still murder and I am totally against it.

zam wrote:Except for Sensitive medical reasons such as:

- the child or the mother have a slim chance or cant survive if the pregnancy is continued
- child will be a retard/abnormal upon birth

I am personally against abortion. I believe it is still murder and I am totally against it.

well what about rape victems? the girl didn't ask to be raped.it's her right to get rid of all the results of the rape out of her body.

Yes its not her fault. But no she does not need to abort the child coz the child is also innocent on this case. Why not give birth to the child and then put it for adoption?

I know its easier said than done. But even a day or a week, or 5 weeks age of fetus, life is there.

zam wrote:Yes its not her fault. But no she does not need to abort the child coz the child is also innocent on this case. Why not give birth to the child and then put it for adoption?

I know its easier said than done. But even a day or a week, or 5 weeks age of fetus, life is there.

O RLY? how do you know that she does not "need" to abort it ? huh? you don't know.that's it. in fact most rape victems who get pregnant DO need to abort it. how will she get over the rape if for more than a couple months she'll be carrying something which reminds her of what could be the worst day in her life? yes easier said than done, totally irrational and ignorant.

zam wrote:Yes its not her fault. But no she does not need to abort the child coz the child is also innocent on this case.

The "child" is only a theoretical thing at the point when someone decides whether or not to have an abortion, the same way that its merely a theoretical thing when a guy wanks off or uses a condom instead of having unprotected s.e.x

Why not give birth to the child and then put it for adoption?

Adoption is a *bad* option that necessitates a far greater amount of physical and likely emotional pain (though obviously not always) for the same end result. Why should a woman get fat and have her hormones messed up for nine months, ruin her body and go through labor, for the 'adoption industry.'




http://www.utdallas.edu/~jfg021000/thomson.html

Grow up a bit will you and try to save the trash talking in the fight club.

A mistake cannot be corrected by another mistake. Rape victims cannot get over it within weeks or months. It will take more years we can imagine for healing. Murder is murder, commiting it to a 5 yr kid is the same as aborting a 3 weeks old fetus.

zam wrote: Murder is murder, commiting it to a 5 yr kid is the same as aborting a 3 weeks old fetus.

in your world, maybe.

I don't mind it when people are against abortion, it's their opinion.but the ones trying to ban it, and the ones calling the mothers murderers and holding signs and the ones murdering the doctors who perform such surgeries are scum on earth.

Val more often than not I find you incomprehensible, your point of comparison is like heaven and an ostrich.

shafique wrote:Morally against it as a way of birth control though.

Why not? The only real application abortion has is birth control. The only problem with it is that its an expensive and complicated form of birth control so easier ones are better when they work.

Abortions are most certainly not useful for birth control. They are damaging to the female reproductive system and costly, and have a risk of serious side effects. No woman in her right mind would use abortion as birth control - not even considering the ethical side to it.

I too think that a victim of rape should be able to choose whether to have an abortion or not if they are going to be mentally scarred by carrying a fetus for 9 months and going through the adoption process. Also, some rape victims are quite young - do we really want 9, 10, 11, 12 year olds having to give birth to babies if they can't handle it? Of course, they should receive support to get them through it, but I don't think they should be outright denied the right to an abortion. Think how hard it must be for them! If abortion is done it should be done under 3 months. I disagree that killing a 3 week old embryo is the same thing as killing a 5 year old child. From a religious perspective I can see how some people might view it that way though.

my turn to say "ditto"

I am AGAINST abortion.

zam wrote: What are your views about abortion

I didnt vote in the poll because I do not know which one I fall under. For me -- it depends on each case.

According to Islam, abortion is permissible if the woman or child will be endagered.

Meaning, if the woman's health and safety is a concern during the pregnancy and giving birth, she is allowed to have an abortion. If the child is diagnosed as having any severed mental/physical deformities that would cause severe hardship on both him and the family, abortion is allowed. However, for both scenarios the abortion must be done prior to 120 days from inception (4 months).

If the woman is raped, religiously speaking, she is also allowed to have an abortion if carrying and giving birth to the child is too damaging to her physical or psychological health. This must also be carried out in the 120 days from inception.

If the woman has consensual s e x, however, and her health is not in danger, then abortion is not allowed.


Culturaly, the same rules apply....this is also my standpoint on abortion.


So I dont know, is this for...or against abortion?

PARANOID wrote:I'll be against it when the people who voted "against" offer a better alternative. people will always have abortions even if it got banned, no pregnancy can be maintained when faced by a couple strong punches to the tummy.
If you're worried about murder then go help kids in africa stay alive. not worry about unborn fetuses who will later be abandonned by their parents. if you want to stop an abortion, then you should adopt the baby after it's born.the so called mom dosent want it so she's getting rid of it before it's too late, before the fetus becomes an unwanted baby. if you're humane alternative is to pile them all up in an orphnage then simply shut up.

well saied paranoid!

zam wrote:Yes its not her fault. But no she does not need to abort the child coz the child is also innocent on this case. Why not give birth to the child and then put it for adoption?

I know its easier said than done. But even a day or a week, or 5 weeks age of fetus, life is there.

nice alternative u put up! giving up the baby for adoption: than girl let me tell u something: u have no idea how much pain it is for a kid to grow up knowing he was not wanted: u have no clue how trumatised they r...

to abandone a baby it's a bigger crime that not bringing him/her into a f@#$ up world if u have nothing to provide him/her! u gotta think from all the perspectives...

The only and I do mean only case where I think abortion might be the way to go is rape. UNLESS you can be 100% sure that the woman's life is in danger. No, if the child has some birth defect, it is not an option. You are just applying natural selection whether you want to call it this way or not. In the end we'd end up choosing our kids' eyes color, body shape, hair color etc etc...

Back to the rape case now. Have you ever met a rape victim? Have you read/watched about rape cases? A kid who is born out of rape will NEVER be loved by his "mother". I even read one case in France, where the kid was actually tortured by all family members, was hardly given any food. It was actually an acquaintance of 1 of the family members who alerted the authorities. The kid was 8 and was in a terrible condition: broken bones that had never really healed, bruises, never went to school. In summary, just a tragedy. Maybe that's an extreme case, but it DOES happen. I mean let's try to put ourselves in the shoes of a rape victim. Could you possibly love the fruit of such a "union"? The kid is innocent, but do you even think about that in such a situation? Don't think so.

Nick81 wrote:Back to the rape case now. Have you ever met a rape victim? Have you read/watched about rape cases? A kid who is born out of rape will NEVER be loved by his "mother". I even read one case in France, where the kid was actually tortured by all family members, was hardly given any food. It was actually an acquaintance of 1 of the family members who alerted the authorities. The kid was 8 and was in a terrible condition: broken bones that had never really healed, bruises, never went to school. In summary, just a tragedy. Maybe that's an extreme case, but it DOES happen. I mean let's try to put ourselves in the shoes of a rape victim. Could you possibly love the fruit of such a "union"? The kid is innocent, but do you even think about that in such a situation? Don't think so.

Nick, you can't say that just because a woman is raped and becomes pregnant she wont love her kid.

bushra21 wrote:

Nick81 wrote:Back to the rape case now. Have you ever met a rape victim? Have you read/watched about rape cases? A kid who is born out of rape will NEVER be loved by his "mother". I even read one case in France, where the kid was actually tortured by all family members, was hardly given any food. It was actually an acquaintance of 1 of the family members who alerted the authorities. The kid was 8 and was in a terrible condition: broken bones that had never really healed, bruises, never went to school. In summary, just a tragedy. Maybe that's an extreme case, but it DOES happen. I mean let's try to put ourselves in the shoes of a rape victim. Could you possibly love the fruit of such a "union"? The kid is innocent, but do you even think about that in such a situation? Don't think so.

Nick, you can't say that just because a woman is raped and becomes pregnant she wont love her kid.

I just did. I am sorry hon I am just in a bad mood today... Tell u about it when I am back in Dubai. Anyway, care to give me one good example of a mother that actually ended loving a child she got by being raped?

The question for us is whether the unborn child is a human being that has inalienable rights.

Is the unborn child a human being? If you can answer the above question with rationalities that the unborn child is not a human being, then I think you've justified your positions.

asc_26 wrote:

The question for us is whether the unborn child is a human being that has inalienable rights.

Is the unborn child a human being? If you can answer the above question with rationalities that the unborn child is not a human being, then I think you've justified your positions.

For me, a foetus is not a child until it is capable of life outside of the womb.

Islam teaches that the life force or soul is not breathed into a foetus until 3 months, for example. A baby that is miscarried, is not considered to have been alive and does not receive burial rites.

This view by-passes the tricky questions raised about when a life is a life. The pro-life lobby in the US for example strongly argues that life begins with fertilisation of an egg. This means that all eggs in a petri dish that are fertilised with sperm have the same rights to life as a foetus.

If a bundle of cells is not considered 'alive', then the act of abortion is not seen as 'killing'.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:

asc_26 wrote:

The question for us is whether the unborn child is a human being that has inalienable rights.

Is the unborn child a human being? If you can answer the above question with rationalities that the unborn child is not a human being, then I think you've justified your positions.

For me, a foetus is not a child until it is capable of life outside of the womb.

Islam teaches that the life force or soul is not breathed into a foetus until 3 months, for example. A baby that is miscarried, is not considered to have been alive and does not receive burial rites.

This view by-passes the tricky questions raised about when a life is a life. The pro-life lobby in the US for example strongly argues that life begins with fertilisation of an egg. This means that all eggs in a petri dish that are fertilised with sperm have the same rights to life as a foetus.

If a bundle of cells is not considered 'alive', then the act of abortion is not seen as 'killing'.

Cheers,
Shafique

If I will used my religious catholic standpoint, I would say a fetus is already a "LIFE and so i can call it a child that has every reason and rights to live. and i quote:

All human life -- from the moment of conception and through all subsequent stages -- is sacred, because human life is created in the image and likeness of God." "An embryo is an individual, no matter how small. While the embryo receives cells from the mother and the father, it is neither the mother nor the father." "To prevent birth is anticipated murder; it makes little difference whether one destroys a life already born or does away with it in its nascent stage. The one who will be a man is already one."

Pope John Paul II wrote" "Some try to justify abortion by claiming that the product of conception, at least until a certain number of days, cannot yet be considered a personal human life....In reality from the moment in which the ovum is fertilized, a new life begins which is not that of the father or of the mother but of a new human being which develops of its own accord. It would never be made human if it were not human already....This has always been clear, and modern genetic science offers clear confirmation."

Shafique, even using scientific standpoint, still they would say that the unborn child is already a human life. Once the sperm & egg meet = is the moment of conception. Not only it's a life, but by its intrinsic biological in nature, it's a human life from the moment of conception, for it can be nothing else. "To be a human being is decided for an organism at the moment of fertilization of the ovum." And i quote"

Dianne Irving writes: "To begin with, scientifically something very radical occurs between the processes of gametogenesis and fertilization — the change from a simple part of one human being (i.e., a sperm) and a simple part of another human being (i.e., an oocyte — usually referred to as an 'ovum' or 'egg'), which simply possess 'human life', to a new, genetically unique, newly existing, individual, whole living human being (an embryonic single-cell human zygote). That is, upon fertilization, parts of human beings have actually been transformed into something very different from what they were before; they have been changed into a single, whole human being. During the process of fertilization, the sperm and the oocyte cease to exist as such, and a new human being is produced.

That's why I am against abortion.

Catholicism does say life begins at conception. Islam does not have the same view.

Hence why we have different view points.

An egg and a sperm both have the potential to become a human being. Nowadays, every human cell has the potential of being used to provide the genetic make up of a human being - via cloning.

However, life itself - being able to be self-sustaining is something that defines when someone is alive. Individual cells are alive or dead, and can live outside a body - but they are not self-sustaining or have conciousness.

I respect your view - if my church held the belief that life started at conception, then I logically would have to agree with you. The fact that I do not stems from my view of when life actually can be called life.

Cheers,
Shafique

Let me add that science is on the side of the pro-choice lobby.

The fertilized egg is not a sustainable independent being in the early stages of pregnancy. There is no conciousness and no chance of independent life outside the womb.

Cheers,
Shafique

Nick81 wrote: Anyway, care to give me one good example of a mother that actually ended loving a child she got by being raped?

I think you may know her actually

I'm with shafique and K on this one.

I am not "pro" abortion but "pro choice". There are women who for whatever reason (not rape, not medical, and perhaps "birth control") decide to have an abortion. While morally reprehensible and against certain religious tenets I prefer to leave the choice to the woman and her family or partner (and in many cases there is no partner). I would rather that a fetus is aborted than the entire life of a child be damaged because he/she was/is "unwanted".

So: Pro Choice.

PS - many people argue that adoption is an option (except the many of those arguing this view will be the last to adopt - they simply want to take the "high moral road".

Then I would suggest you try and get hold of the latest BBC documentary about unborn babies, where speicailists used brand new 3D scanning technology to look at an unborn baby, from the very early stages, through to birth. It has made the medical profession think twice about allowing abortions before 26 weeks, as the baby displays 'human' practices and characteristics even long before that period of time.

Also I would definately say you have to look at children who would be born with birth defects. If they are severe, so much so, that the child will never have a decent life and always be under 24 hour care, then there are grounds for considering that.

I'll give you a really good example, look at that poor little girl Charlotte, whose parents fought against the courts to stop her treatments and care to prevent her from dying. She is severely physically and mentally handicapped. Her parents after all that struggle have now split up, and the child is in a foster home as they cannot cope with looking after her on their own. Was this fair to the child? No, it never was.