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westside wrote:choco u need to have faith in some thing n i dont belive in the ig bang n evolution itz all bull frm an islamic point of view i could explain those thing 2 u if u want

Nah I have a scientific mind, there's too much evidence now for people not to believe or even understand how the universe was created. To think that poof one day we all just 'arrived' is bananas! Even now, a new form of early man has just been discovered.

I believe in myself, fate, chance and destiny and the energies of the world around me and that's all I need.

Allah = God = yaweh = zues = ra = baphomet

The highest power. The universal Life Energy. The Life Force. The Great Spirit. The alpha and the omega. The Creator.

or what ever name you impose based on your personal beliefs.


thats what I believe anyway...

Chocoholic wrote:I'm just playing devils advocate Freza. As you will know my jury's still out on the existance of 'an almighty being'.

OK, if you're really playing devil's advocate, why don't you try playing devil's advocate in the other political discussions

Either prove to me that there is, or prove to me that there isn't...

Can you prove that gravity exists? Can you provide some gravity for me? The formula for making gravity? The proof that gravity exists is that we can see its effects, right? Gravity is a constant force, not something tangible, but something measurable.

God can be described as a force; humans add the emotional and spiritual dimension to this force, but the practial element of this mystery is not easy to ignore.

To think that poof one day we all just 'arrived' is bananas!

Just like it's impossible to think of human life being created without some form of conception, without parent cells, it's impossible to think that the ability for life on earth was created out of nothing and without rationale. Even simple celled self-dividing organisms had a beginning. Any form of life can not just pop out of nothingness and without a "parent" or creator. If indeed this were the case, then scientists should recreate such an incredible experiment and derive some form of life from a primordial soup. (and I'm not talking about cloning of course).

I find you very confusing on this subject. You're not sure about God (which is entirely your own prerogative of course), but you state that you think with a scientific mind, yet you believe in ghosts and spirits and you think that God has chosen certain people to inherit a piece of land... interesting, to say the least...

The word itself 'God' suggests singularity and objectivity. I believe it's more the total sum of everything. Everything is God, you & me, the cat, the tree, the microbe and the planet and yes we are all creations of this force. The unforunate aspect of our existence is that it is becoming clearer by the day that we are currently doing a great job of screwing it up from our greed - as a result our time here is limited, this to me is the most important 'Message' - and this is largley due us trying to play at being god ourselves.

So I most certainly have a belief in a life force that is infinite and is of such complexity the human brain can not fully comprehend the whole picture, it can only catch glimpses in awe - this to me is God for want of a better word.

As for a God who acts as a judge and jury, has everyone follow a book as his word, inspires and calls people to war, holds dualistic notions and casts out non-believers to fiery pits of hell - this is no more then mans spin on the big deal.

And my hope for mankind is that one day we will no longer have the worlds religions at the centre of the power hub, we may then start to take some responsibilties for our own lifes & behavior and perhaps make this world a decent place to exist for all life. Religion has been in the driving seat for the over the past 3 thousand years and on the whole balance I can't see what good it has done us. Yes there have been some saintly acts of selflessness by some individuals, but on the whole a lot of the destruction and suffering has been evident.

I do not say this to offend anyone, these are my beliefs, and I am entitled to them as much as you are entitled to yours.

Your mileage may of course vary.

Freza, without gravity, you wouldn't be able to stay on the earth - just drop and apple to the ground - example of gravity!

People can believe what ever they want, I just choose not to waste time in my life worrying about it.

Chocoholic wrote::roll: Freza, without gravity, you wouldn't be able to stay on the earth - just drop and apple to the ground - example of gravity!

Well, duh! Do you really think that I don't know what gravity does?? Did you not get the point of why I brought up the gravity example? Obviously not... I'll over-simplify things for you next time.

People can believe what ever they want, I just choose not to waste time in my life worrying about it.

This looks like a mickey mouse reply to something that you can not answer. So you doubt that God exists but you believe in ghosts who have visted you (cough) and you believe that God promised Jews the land of Israel...aha, alrighty then. Yeah, don't waste your time thinking of these contradictions.

Well I can see, hear and interact with ghosts and spirits my dear, many people don't believe in them or deny they exist. So why can't I say the same about something I've never seen, heard or felt.

Same, same.

Nothing more to say on the matter.

minnie mouse, no one is trying to convince you that God exists, but one of your many wacky contradictions is that you believe in spirits and ((hello)) spirits are connected to a spiritual being (in which ever twisted way the explanation might be). Atheists usually don't believe in an after or spiritual life. So what are ghosts then? (besides being a figment of your imagination/or a byproduct of something you smoked...) Aren't ghosts the spirits of the departed?

And if you don't believe in God how on earth can you believe that Jews are "chosen" by God??

I have never said that I don't belive in God Freza, so please don't misinterpret that. I merely sit on the fence.

And no, ghosts and spirits can be very different things. Some are/used to be human beings, others certainly were never of the human form or even of this plane of existance.

I know these things exist because I have been around them in the past, and they certainly are not a figment of the imagination. But then if you choose not to belive in such things, then it's upto you. I do, because I have first hand experience of such things.

Now I really have nothing more to add to what I've already said.

choco: I just love how you answer my God/"Chosen People" question. Lovely. Not once did you evade it.

You and Ghosts = You weird.

good times.

I chose not to answer your question, as I feel it's irrelevent to this discussion. ANyway are people not allowed to change their views/opinions? Or do you hold them to every little thing they've ever said? I was merely pointing out a belief system, nothing more, nothing less, if you chose to read more into it, then that's upto you.

I'm weird because I believe in something I can see, hear and touch - yeah right ok! At least I'm in touch enough with the world around me and it's energies to be able to do these things.

Nuff said.

With the whole Israel thing you were more than pointing out a belief system, but anyway, yeah of course you have a right to change your opinions and views. It would be refreshing actually if it were true...

OK Choco, prove that ghosts exists. Show some scientific evidence. Why don't you film one of the ghosts that you interact with?

I'm sure interacting with ghosts has made you a much better person...more noble and open-minded, more in tune with reality...

And yeah, I know what you will say: stick to the topic. So I'm leaving the subject. bye.

I don't have to prove anything to you Freza, you can only experience these things for yourself, but I know many people who also experience these things.

Can you prove to me that God exists? Where's the scientific evidence? Can you film God on camera? Can you tape the words of God?

Well can you?

why are you dudes upset?

If you believe in something, believe it. If you dont believe it, then dont believe it. Both of you are trying to tell the other person what to believe and what not to believe.

Bleakus wrote:why are you dudes upset?

If you believe in something, believe it. If you dont believe it, then dont believe it. Both of you are trying to tell the other person what to believe and what not to believe.

i agree with him....freza stop nagging at chocs and chocs...stop asking freza questions....you should know better....both of you

bleakus dude, you obviously did not read the thread because I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. So, you're wrong about what you stated.

Edit: and no, I'm not trying to engage anyone in a fight, I was just checking out glaring contradictions.

bushra, don't mind if I don't take your advise.

Choco, my gravity post answered your question. Re-read and let me know if you have additional questions.

Who's getting upset? And I'm certainly not trying to make anyone believe anything, I've already said in my previous posts it up to each individual to believe whatever they want. I was merely throwing the same questions back at Freza that she asked me, because the same can apply in thi situation.

She's just trying to engage me in a fight, but I'm not biting.

freza wrote:bleakus dude, you obviously did not read the thread because I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. So, you're wrong about what you stated.

Edit: and no, I'm not trying to engage anyone in a fight, I was just checking out glaring contradictions.

bushra, don't mind if I don't take your advise.

Choco, my gravity post answered your question. Re-read and let me know if you have additional questions.

lol, what i meant was that the way you guys were posting was kinda aggressive....i was just trying to calm you guys down before somebody says something wrong

thats my opinion anyways..

Chocoholic wrote:Who's getting upset? And I'm certainly not trying to make anyone believe anything, I've already said in my previous posts it up to each individual to believe whatever they want. I was merely throwing the same questions back at Freza that she asked me, because the same can apply in thi situation.

She's just trying to engage me in a fight, but I'm not biting.

i dont think anybody gets upset after they see your avatar lol

oh bleakus,

this is just the way I talk, get used to it.

freza wrote:oh bleakus,

this is just the way I talk, get used to it.

its just sounded aggressive

sorry dude, i dont have to get used to anything