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bushra21 wrote:what you wrote is true val, but i believe i also read something agreeing with what i said...i will try and find it online since all my books and notes are in the states and not with me.

religion leaves a lot of room for interpretation. and with islam there are 4 schools of thought, so there are sometimes disagreements amongst the scholars on how certain things are interpreted...

make sense?



p.s. dont get me wrong, im not saying that what your wrote is incorrect...actually quite the opposite...i completely agree with it

Are you talking about the jurisprudence of Islam, the hadiths?

We appreciate your asking about how to enter the religion of Allaah, which none will be saved on the Day of Resurrection but those who follow it. Allaah says in His Book, the Holy Qur’aan (interpretation of the meaning):

“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]

http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=74976&ln=eng

I know I read somewhere that if the person dies believing in one god, His messengers, and His book...then Allah will accept it or something to that affect....im looking on line to see if I can find out where I read this...

here is a detailed site on what happens after death, it really makes you think about life.
http://members.tripod.com/worldupdates/ ... /id121.htm

Well, every religion seems to state that only their followers will go to heaven and everyone else goes to hell.

kanelli wrote:Well, every religion seems to state that only their followers will go to heaven and everyone else goes to hell.

Hopefully a short post from me - as I'm trying to avoid contentious posts and arguing.

Islam does not state that only Muslims will go to heaven. With only some minor exceptions, no one is guaranteed hell or heaven, but are judged on their merits - each person individually is judged without any intercessor.

After Ramadhan, we can explore the concept of heaven and hell under Islam as explained by the Quran and the Prophet, pbuh (it is different from Christianity's view).

We can also explore the general question of what happens after death - is there such a thing as a 'soul' which survives the death of the body (which does become worm-food ). I can give the Islamic viewpoint - which is pretty much in accordance with Bushra's post (but even amongst Muslims, there are superstitions that have crept into beliefs about the period before the day of judgement). I may even be drawn into explaining why I don't believe in tooth fairies, pixies, hobgoblins, poltergeists and ghosts

Val's quote about Islam being the only religion acceptable to God begs the question what is 'Islam'. (God, for example, says in the Quran that the first Muslim was Abraham). Again, something we can explore after Ramadhan if people remind me.

The Quran is internally consistent - I've looked at all the alleged contradictions - and in the following verse God gives the criteria by which people will be judged (note that Sabians here means 'everyone else' - it was a general term used by Arabs of the time for non-Arabs/Jews/Christians)

Chapter : 2 (Al-Baqarah) Verse : 62

Surely, those who believe and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians - whichever party from among these truly believes in Allah and the Last Day and does good deeds, shall have their reward with their Lord, and no fear shall come upon them, nor shall they grieve.



I hope that everyone is benefiting from Ramadhan.

Wasalaam (peace)
Shafique

Thanks Shaf!

But what about Valkyrie's quote? The one you posted and one Valkyrie posted seem to contradict each other.

kanelli wrote:Thanks Shaf!

But what about Valkyrie's quote? The one you posted and one Valkyrie posted seem to contradict each other.

Val didnt quote from Quran. He quoted from a hadith which is Propet's saying which one must b careful of the sources cos many of these were written many yrs after Prophet's death. Moreover he is quoting from internet (unpopular) site so one must b careful

but every religion shuns their apostates as every military clan, creed shuns theirs

sniper420 wrote:

kanelli wrote:Thanks Shaf!

But what about Valkyrie's quote? The one you posted and one Valkyrie posted seem to contradict each other.

Val didnt quote from Quran. He quoted from a hadith which is Propet's saying which one must b careful of the sources cos many of these were written many yrs after Prophet's death. Moreover he is quoting from internet (unpopular) site so one must b careful

but every religion shuns their apostates as every military clan, creed shuns theirs

On the contrary Sniper, Val did quote from the Quran NOT from a Hadith, and the site www.islamqa.com is one of the most and well known and trusted sites for muslims. The scholars in that site are known to all arabs if not most muslims.

guyz i was serious not bout all boil oil and hot fire wit worm food and all tht i mean come on ~!!!!!!!!!!

St.Lucifer wrote:

Nick81 wrote:

St.Lucifer wrote:

mraph33 wrote:you become worm food and grass fertilizer

I'd not b worm food and grass fertilizer ...... like weary said.. my body will be cremated.

um your ash might be used as grass fertilizer

It can b but .. nope according to our custom, it'll b collected and washed away at different holy rivers or at a confluence..

Fish food.....same principle

sniper420 wrote:

kanelli wrote:Thanks Shaf!

But what about Valkyrie's quote? The one you posted and one Valkyrie posted seem to contradict each other.

Val didnt quote from Quran. He quoted from a hadith which is Propet's saying which one must b careful of the sources cos many of these were written many yrs after Prophet's death. Moreover he is quoting from internet (unpopular) site so one must b careful

but every religion shuns their apostates as every military clan, creed shuns theirs

wrong sniper, Val quoted from the Quran as well as provided a Hadith...

bushra21 wrote:

sniper420 wrote:

kanelli wrote:Thanks Shaf!

But what about Valkyrie's quote? The one you posted and one Valkyrie posted seem to contradict each other.

Val didnt quote from Quran. He quoted from a hadith which is Propet's saying which one must b careful of the sources cos many of these were written many yrs after Prophet's death. Moreover he is quoting from internet (unpopular) site so one must b careful

but every religion shuns their apostates as every military clan, creed shuns theirs

wrong sniper, Val quoted from the Quran as well as provided a Hadith...

well then can u tell me why doest it contradict eac other a?

I have actually sent the question to a Sheikh to answer for me...once I get an answer I will let you know.

bushra21 wrote:I have actually sent the question to a Sheikh to answer for me...once I get an answer I will let you know.

Ask this guy. I haven't submitted a query because I don't log in on time.

http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/askimam/ask ... l?act=ap_f


Bushra, could you also ask your sheik about the fate of Hindus, Buddhists etc.?

i guess all monotheist religions shun pagans

sniper420 wrote:i guess all monotheist religions shun pagans

Yes, but Hinduism isn't Polythiest. It's really monistic, and to some scholars, monotheist.

valkyrie wrote:

bushra21 wrote:I have actually sent the question to a Sheikh to answer for me...once I get an answer I will let you know.

Ask this guy. I haven't submitted a query because I don't log in on time.

http://www.islam.tc/cgi-bin/askimam/ask ... l?act=ap_f


Bushra, could you also ask your sheik about the fate of Hindus, Buddhists etc.?

I could, but its known what happens to (according in Islam) to people who dont believe in one god.

I believe I mentioned that the person, in order to enter paradise, has to believe in one god, the prophets, muhammd (pbuh) and the book of god. I know, it sounds like the person would then have to be a muslim, but there are some who believe in all of this but are not.

From what I read, I understood that they are permitted entrance to heaven, if Allah wishes.

But no problem, I'll send in that question as well...would you like me to post the answer on here or just pm you?

westside wrote:what happens to a person after death?

it starts to rot and little worms have dinner

mraph33 wrote:

St.Lucifer wrote:

Nick81 wrote:

St.Lucifer wrote:

mraph33 wrote:you become worm food and grass fertilizer

I'd not b worm food and grass fertilizer ...... like weary said.. my body will be cremated.

um your ash might be used as grass fertilizer

It can b but .. nope according to our custom, it'll b collected and washed away at different holy rivers or at a confluence..

Fish food.....same principle

What ever.. but i dont think fish would eat ash.. or there would b anything to eat out of ash.. or is there..?
and abt the debate going on..

Old religions, the ones that came out of the civilization, are set of practices and faiths that have come from olden days.

New age religions were made to unite people, and make them do good.. principles are simple, If u do good( again a very very relative term, so had to be clearly mantioned what is good and what is bad) u get everything what ever one would dream for(heaven)... if u do bad.. u get the worst imaginable things(hell)..

Some religions like Budhism and hinduism have in its own views of after death, coz they dont emphasis on heaven coz
according to their belief, heaven is not eternal, eventually good karma will make them take different reincarnation. Heaven is temporary and part of Samsara(world), Buddhists and partly hindus focus more on escaping reincarnation cycles and reaching enlightenment (Bodhi).In Hindu belief, heaven,Swarga loka is seen as a transitory place for souls who did good deeds but whose actions are not enough for moksha or merging (union) with Brahman. There are different stages of hell and different treatments to those in hell according to the crimes and bad things they've done.. these are written in vedas n other mythological books like Garuda purana etc..

I believe in God and not in religions. Any one who can think beyond their injected believes can realize that all the religions are same.

We die and we get buried or cremated, this is our body.
Our Spirit or Soul is another thing, and this will depend on how you have lived your life.
This is what I believe.

Sniper..there is no contradiction, but since u asked why, i feel compelled to answer, and my answer is from a scholar, so whatever i say is a quote from him.

Valkyrie qouted from the Quran the following verse (interpretation of the meaning):

“And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will never be accepted of him, and in the Hereafter he will be one of the losers”
[Aal ‘Imraan 3:85]

Is a statement that Allaah will not accept any way or deed from anyone, after sending His Final Messenger, except those that are in accordance with the laws of Muhammad (pbuh).

Prior to this, however, anyone who followed the Prophet of his own time was on the Straight Path of salvation, and they are as follows:

* The Jews who followed Moosa (Moses) pbuh and referred to the Tawraat (Bible) for judgement at that time.

* When Allaah sent Eesa (Jesus) pbuh, the Children of Israel were obliged to follow him and obey him, and so they and others who followed him became Christians.

* When Allaah sent Muhammad pbuh, as the Final Prophet and a Messenger to all the children of Adam, all of mankind was obliged to believe in him and obey him, and refrain from what he prohibited. Those who did so are the true believers. The nation of Muhammad pbuh are called the believers because of their deep faith and conviction, and because they believe in all the past Prophets and in the prophesied events that are yet to come.

Commenting on the Verse in (al-Baqarah) which Shafique was refering to, Scholars said:

“What is meant is that every group believed in Allaah and the Last Day, which is the appointed Day of Reckoning, and did righteous deeds. But after Muhammad pbuh was sent to mankind , true belief can only be in accordance with the way of Muhammad pbuh. Whoever follows his way will not fear the future or grieve for what they leave behind."

Bushra...you can correct me if i am wrong once you get your answer from the Scholar you asked.

No that is the answer I received as well concerning the 'contradiction'.

What he also said, however, was that anyone who does believe in the things that I had mentioned earlier is considered a Mulsim according to Allah.

To be honest, this is what is confusing me now. If you haven't taken the tashahud, you are not a Muslim...so how does that work out then?

Maybe I need to find a new scholar

The scholar is in each one of us, religious books are never read with knowledge of what the words are supposed to mean. Thats the marvel, readers find a whole set of new meanings to any literature. and the same is true in case of any religious texts as well. Todays grown up knows and by themselves can understand and identify what is right and what is wrong. Conviction in truth ,humanity and oneness is what we need, not people who teach others to separate people on the basis of religions. Not those teachings of the religions that tries to prove theirs is the best religion, and it must b imposed on all.

Well I beleive firmly in reincarnation, because the body may die, but the soul (if you wish to call it that), the essence of a human being is energy and that cannot die, it just changes into other forms of energy.

My sister-in-law recently had a Tarot reading, the the lady doing the reading said she had at least 6 past lives.

Hello Folks,

I personally believe that the question what will happen after death and its answer should never be part of any one's belief as no one has come back after death to actually tell us what had happened to him.

But yes we can discuss about it but please do not make this argument as means to Judge a religion especially Islam.

The kind of statements made by valk , bushra, shafiq relates to their understanding of belief, and then the comments made by Kan and Choco are quite natural and logical.

I have a net friend who does tarot reading and claims to have glimpses of something of the past life even past life of being a wolf.

Having said that it is not essential to also believe what bushra has wrote about questions being asked in the grave by an angel with specifics to islam and etc.

I do not think one will need to authenticate this to be able to enter islam or will he go out of islam if he does not believe so.

In my opinion, we will will know when we die about what will happen next. That is when we see our graves for sure.

So I think we should all be worried about the basic question of believing in that there is a creator and that he has sent his messengers to mankind and who ever does the right deeds will enter paradise and who ever does not, GOD is most forgiving, upto him, which is true for even the first group.

Having said that I invite those who do not belive in the creator to really research about the need of having all this universe being created around us, surely it is not all in vain. Am sure when you do that you will find the truth.

For me I have , thanks to almighty that I submit myself to Allah which is the name in arabic for GOD and since I submit, its what Islam is all about, submit to GOD and his will.

There are so many other things to worry about and correct. Do we ever think about poor folks. Orphans or people who need a fraction of our wealth..

We have become so busy in the life that we forget the basic thing which is to help humanity if you do so, surely he will guide you to the right path which has been from the beginning ISLAM which is the religion of all prophets. ISLAM means submission to GOD's will. And yes his last prophet is Muhammad SAW. So kan and choco should read more about the last prophet.

Its not out of showing myself to others, am indeed a person with less knowledge but when I read Kuran day by day by GOD it strenghten my belief and the face is that islam is all about serving humanity more then for individual.

I quote a surah Takasur here from the book and I invite all people to read kuran with good intention and research with an open mind
"
The craving for excess wealth kept you people neglectful.
Until you confronted the graves.
Yes certainly, you will soon realise!
Again, yes certainly, you will soon realise!
Yes certainly, if you had believed with certainty, you would not have craved for wealth.
Indeed you will see hell.
Again, indeed you will see it with certainty.
Then, on that day, you will surely be questioned regarding the favours.
"

Cheers

Chocoholic wrote:Well I beleive firmly in reincarnation, because the body may die, but the soul (if you wish to call it that), the essence of a human being is energy and that cannot die, it just changes into other forms of energy.

My sister-in-law recently had a Tarot reading, the the lady doing the reading said she had at least 6 past lives.

so u beleive in tarot! Whatr proof does she have? i dont beleive in reincarnation I beleive in accountability. We are only animals with gift , gift of thinking and manipulation and we are responsible for our actions as my fav saying "there is price for everthing" so there is price for our actions

bushra21 wrote:No that is the answer I received as well concerning the 'contradiction'.

What he also said, however, was that anyone who does believe in the things that I had mentioned earlier is considered a Mulsim according to Allah.

To be honest, this is what is confusing me now. If you haven't taken the tashahud, you are not a Muslim...so how does that work out then?

Maybe I need to find a new scholar

No need to find a new scholar - both scholars quoted are right in their explanations that there is no contradiction.

The Quran states that the first Muslim was Abraham, pbuh. He never professed tashahud.

Basically, the verse from Chapter 2 lays out what it practically means to be a 'Muslim' - i.e. 'one who submits to the will of God, to attain peace' = believe in God, believe in being accountable and do good works.

For those, there is a promise that they will 'not fear'.

The implication is that all sincere believers of God who seek the truth, will accept the pure teachings of religion brought by Muhammad, pbuh. No other religion will satisfy like Islam. We see this throughout the world today as people convert, of their own free will, to Islam from every other religion.

The above only addresses the narrow point - 'does Islam say only Muslims go to heaven'. If we define 'muslims' as those who follow the religion brought by Muhammad, pbuh, - then the answer is 'no'. However if the word Muslim signifies all those who fulfil the criteria in the verse from Chpt 2, then the answer is 'yes'.

That said - note that I have posted a full answer on what happens after death, from an Islamic perspective, in the Politics & Religion section.

Remind me after Ramadhan to post on why I don't believe in reincarnation from a logical perspective. (Oh and Chocs, I've studied how to do Tarot readings and other fortune telling techniques.. I haven't practiced but know how they are done)

Cheers,
Shafique