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Well our Home Secretary this week had a meeting with 'Muslim Community Leaders' to tell them that they should keep an eye on their kids for any suspicious behaviour that might lead to them becoming 'radicalised'.

So despite saying that all Muslims in the UK were not being tarred with the Terrorist brush, he's saying that they're POTENTIAL terrorists.

Not sure what the authorities expect to happen...perhaps Muslim parents will report their kids for not coming home till late, or being vague as to who they've been out with...in that case I MUST have been a terrorist when I was sixteen...!

As today's Independent said, Stalin would just love this form of DEnunciation...so come on folks...grass your kids... in fact kids grass your parents too...

I don't think that's the point that's being made at all. It's about raising awareness within the muslim community and the fact they must start taking responsibility to stamp out radicalism.

Not madness at all, just common sense really.

No it's not as simple as that, you have the larger community already suspicious of the Muslims and this is making it even worse.

Have young Christian, Jewish or Hindu Britains been blowing up any subway cars and double deckers lately?

17 young Canadian Muslims have also been arrested under suspicion of plotting bombings on Toronto and Ottawa.

What is wrong with speaking to the people who are most at risk for turning to extremism, as seen by recent world events?

kanelli wrote:Have young Christian, Jewish or Hindu Britains been blowing up any subway cars and double deckers lately?

17 young Canadian Muslims have also been arrested under suspicion of plotting bombings on Toronto and Ottawa.

What is wrong with speaking to the people who are most at risk for turning to extremism, as seen by recent world events?

Let's put this in perspective shall we? The British Govt reckons that there are less than a thousand people who could be considered a 'risk' - this is out of a population of approx 1.6 million.

Do you really feel the way to discourage extermism is to target the entire 1.6 million? This is more likely to lead to a sense of alienation leading to further exclusion of Muslims in mainstream society, which will eventually lead to resentment and play right into the hands of radicals.

And what do you suggest is the alternative? Turning a blind eye and let youngsters become brainwashed into committing horrible acts by fanatics, preaching nothing but hatred?

It's because the muslim community is not taking responsibility for these things, that this kind of action is taking palce in the first place. They're not controlling what is being preached, so what are you supposed to do ignore it?

Chocoholic wrote:And what do you suggest is the alternative? Turning a blind eye and let youngsters become brainwashed into committing horrible acts by fanatics, preaching nothing but hatred?

It's because the muslim community is not taking responsibility for these things, that this kind of action is taking palce in the first place. They're not controlling what is being preached, so what are you supposed to do ignore it?

How do you suggest they take responsibility? There's not a mosque in the counry where people aren't acutely aware of the radical issue and it is already being dealt with. Having a Govt Minister come in and imply it's the entire mulsim community's fault is polarising things even more.

Well who else should take the blame then for radicalism taking control? You have to take responsibility for your own, and to be perfectly honest there hasn't been enough done, enough condemnation of the acts of radicals from the Muslim community as a whole, and it's certainly not being stamped out.

It is no-one elses responsibility but theirs.

The government minister wasn't accusing all Muslims of being potential terrorists, only suggesting that Muslims pay attention to their youth and make sure they are not being seduced into extremism by a small handful of radicals. There is nothing wrong with that at all. If Christians, Jews, Hindus ets. were having the same problems the minister would have suggested the same.

Its just like going into the inner cities and telling young blacks to stay away from gangs and drugs. It doesn't mean that every black kid is a murdering drug-addict. But its a problem that faces that community and the leaders have to address the issue.

Mr Enoch Powell was correct
The U.K is a "CHRISTIAN"country and are very tolerant to other religions (they are even allowed to build places to worship some thing they would not be allowed to do in other parts of the world)they should remember that they are aliens in the U.K
If they want they want to live a different way and do not wish to integrate and respect the U.K freedoms then they should go live else where and see if they have the same freedoms

Mr & Mrs Inquirer wrote:Mr Enoch Powell was correct
The U.K is a "CHRISTIAN"country and are very tolerant to other religions (they are even allowed to build places to worship some thing they would not be allowed to do in other parts of the world)they should remember that they are aliens in the U.K
If they want they want to live a different way and do not wish to integrate and respect the U.K freedoms then they should go live else where and see if they have the same freedoms

Oh well it was only a matter of time before some right wing nut trotted out the same old rhetoric about Enoch Powell. FYI the Muslim population is NOT Alien in the UK, the majority are UK Citizens. Which countries are you talking about that Christians can't build Churches or practice their faith? It certainly isn't Lebanon, the Israelis managed to bomb them there http://www.gulfnews.com/region/Lebanon/10057969.html Various Islamic States have churches and Christian populations and they live in peace.

Again you're missing the point, 99.99% of the Muslims in the UK do live in peace and have no hidden agendas or are terrorists. Trying to blame the entire muslim population, is the same as blaming all the troubles in Northern Ireland on the Catholics.

AMERICA has the right way of doing things As reported on the news Tow the line or "we will bomb you back to the stone age"
Enoch Powell. was well head of his time and a TRUE BRIT god bless him

Chocoholic wrote:Well who else should take the blame then for radicalism taking control?

Foreign policy of counties is spurring the recruitment drive. Remember people only need to look at the state of Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Lebannon and now potentially Iran and Syria.

This UK Govt prefers cures to prevention. It still doesnt admit that the London bombings were related to Iraq, eve though the intelligence confirms it.
Additionally, it doesnt address other domestic issues.

ASBO's, - still no grip
Gun crime, - still no grip
Binge Drinking, - still no grip
High Teenage pregnancies - the govt recomended teaching 14 years old ORAL S E X!!

This govt has a history now of ignoring its failed policies and always looks for shortcut fixes.

Chocoholic wrote:You have to take responsibility for your own, and to be perfectly honest there hasn't been enough done, enough condemnation of the acts of radicals from the Muslim community as a whole, and it's certainly not being stamped out.
It is no-one elses responsibility but theirs.

Ok question. How can for example, a guy from Morocco take responsibility for someone from Pakistan? you clearly havent understood the diversity of "Muslims" and are lumping them into one category.

regarding condemnation, Actually, most clerics who have been deemed extremist have been banned from most mosques.
It is a tragedy that the domestic media never concentrate on the voices of those who are taking action and fully condemning. The media is very pre occupied with giving air time to extremists, as it sells their papers.

There is so much it can stamp out... the root causes are not being addressed. Everyone makes it seem like Muslims appreared in the UK yesterday. They have been in the UK for years/ over a century. Why is it a problem now? The reason is due to the way the world is now shaping. Unjust wars, unneccessary killing of innocents and injustices are fueling this behaviour.

There is no way i agree with the actions they take. Neither do most Muslims i know... but it takes two to tango....If there was no illegal,unjust killing ...and there were still bombers of this nature, then i would agree with you that it is a problem which the community need to deal with.

It is too convenient to say the responsibility lay with them.
my 2 c's

kanelli wrote:The government minister wasn't accusing all Muslims of being potential terrorists, only suggesting that Muslims pay attention to their youth and make sure they are not being seduced into extremism by a small handful of radicals. There is nothing wrong with that at all. If Christians, Jews, Hindus ets. were having the same problems the minister would have suggested the same.

The percentange possibility of brainwashing to create an extremist is / was very low. Yet there was a full on approach to address it.

The London Bombings were 100% related to the Iraq war as confirmed by the intelligence..... yet you see any approaches to change foreign policy?

It is too convenient to say the responsibility lay with them
Their all love and peace. Donut you just love Irak the way they are living in harmony

Mr & Mrs Inquirer wrote:AMERICA has the right way of doing things As reported on the news Tow the line or "we will bomb you back to the stone age"
Enoch Powell. was well head of his time and a TRUE BRIT god bless him

And that's why you're in the Middle East...

But with out us you would still be in MUD HUTs and killing each other with swords and spears

rvp_legend wrote:

kanelli wrote:The government minister wasn't accusing all Muslims of being potential terrorists, only suggesting that Muslims pay attention to their youth and make sure they are not being seduced into extremism by a small handful of radicals. There is nothing wrong with that at all. If Christians, Jews, Hindus ets. were having the same problems the minister would have suggested the same.

The percentange possibility of brainwashing to create an extremist is / was very low. Yet there was a full on approach to address it.

The London Bombings were 100% related to the Iraq war as confirmed by the intelligence..... yet you see any approaches to change foreign policy?

So if the coalition pulls out of Iraq you can 100% promise that Islamic extremism and terrorism will not continue?

kanelli wrote:

rvp_legend wrote:

kanelli wrote:The government minister wasn't accusing all Muslims of being potential terrorists, only suggesting that Muslims pay attention to their youth and make sure they are not being seduced into extremism by a small handful of radicals. There is nothing wrong with that at all. If Christians, Jews, Hindus ets. were having the same problems the minister would have suggested the same.

The percentange possibility of brainwashing to create an extremist is / was very low. Yet there was a full on approach to address it.

The London Bombings were 100% related to the Iraq war as confirmed by the intelligence..... yet you see any approaches to change foreign policy?

So if the coalition pulls out of Iraq you can 100% promise that Islamic extremism and terrorism will not continue?

No, but the Iraqi people would prefer to live under Sharia than under American occupation

kanelli wrote:So if the coalition pulls out of Iraq you can 100% promise that Islamic extremism and terrorism will not continue?

Did you know that before the occupation there were no terrorists in Iraq?
Now, after 3 years there are so many!

Kanelli the point is... the only way Iraqis will get a better future is if left to themslves, rather than impose a ruler on them.

You are , as many of my Europeans/USA/Canadian colleagues do ingoring th root causes of this bloodshed. and that is the injustices.

Iraq is one of many now. Palestine, Kashmir, Lebanon, Afghanistan .... all in dire states due to foreign policies of the west (Kashmir not so apparent, but lack of condemnation from UK AND US is feuling)

What i am saying is, if there was no injustice from the UK and US/Europe and extremist kept growing and kept carrynig out their horrid acts, only then can you blame them entirely. It takes two to tango.

I don't agree with this. As a British Muslim, I would be pretty miffed if teachers and dinner ladies were particularly watching my behaviour because of my faith even though I was a quiet and studious child. In fact, it would wind me up even more as at that age it was my parents faith, not mine, at least not until the age of 13.

Also, how would they detect these things? I'm sure there will be many studious quiet children and teenagers who are up to some dodgy things. I do think this is some kind of propoganda to kid Britons that the Govt are doing what they can to 'protect' their citizens from any harm.

There have been far worse atrocities in the UK and US, Dunblane for example, which was also a horrific attack where many innocent childrens lives were taken.

rvp_legend wrote:

kanelli wrote:So if the coalition pulls out of Iraq you can 100% promise that Islamic extremism and terrorism will not continue?

Did you know that before the occupation there were no terrorists in Iraq?
Now, after 3 years there are so many!

Kanelli the point is... the only way Iraqis will get a better future is if left to themslves, rather than impose a ruler on them.

You are , as many of my Europeans/USA/Canadian colleagues do ingoring th root causes of this bloodshed. and that is the injustices.

Iraq is one of many now. Palestine, Kashmir, Lebanon, Afghanistan .... all in dire states due to foreign policies of the west (Kashmir not so apparent, but lack of condemnation from UK AND US is feuling)

What i am saying is, if there was no injustice from the UK and US/Europe and extremist kept growing and kept carrynig out their horrid acts, only then can you blame them entirely. It takes two to tango.

And what makes you think that so many of us Europeans and North Americans don't understand that there is a lot of injustice going on? I certainly don't see where you would get that I don't understand it. Have you not read any of my posts in this forum over the last 9 months?

Princess Banana Hammock wrote:I don't agree with this. As a British Muslim, I would be pretty miffed if teachers and dinner ladies were particularly watching my behaviour because of my faith even though I was a quiet and studious child. In fact, it would wind me up even more as at that age it was my parents faith, not mine, at least not until the age of 13.

Also, how would they detect these things? I'm sure there will be many studious quiet children and teenagers who are up to some dodgy things. I do think this is some kind of propoganda to kid Britons that the Govt are doing what they can to 'protect' their citizens from any harm.

There have been far worse atrocities in the UK and US, Dunblane for example, which was also a horrific attack where many innocent childrens lives were taken.

Hey, if Muslim parents think it is too much to be asked to keep an eye out for a change in behaviour of their children, the presence of extremist people in their lives, or extremist propaganda in their house - then I guess it is too much to ask.

Perhaps they should stop reminding parents to watch what their kids do on the Internet, who they hang out with, and whether they are in contact with drugs and alcohol. After all - that would be treating their children like criminals, wouldn't it?

valkyrie wrote:

kanelli wrote:

rvp_legend wrote:

kanelli wrote:The government minister wasn't accusing all Muslims of being potential terrorists, only suggesting that Muslims pay attention to their youth and make sure they are not being seduced into extremism by a small handful of radicals. There is nothing wrong with that at all. If Christians, Jews, Hindus ets. were having the same problems the minister would have suggested the same.

The percentange possibility of brainwashing to create an extremist is / was very low. Yet there was a full on approach to address it.

The London Bombings were 100% related to the Iraq war as confirmed by the intelligence..... yet you see any approaches to change foreign policy?

So if the coalition pulls out of Iraq you can 100% promise that Islamic extremism and terrorism will not continue?

No, but the Iraqi people would prefer to live under Sharia than under American occupation

And would they prefer to live under Saddam also?

Princess Banana Hammock wrote:I don't agree with this. As a British Muslim, I would be pretty miffed if teachers and dinner ladies were particularly watching my behaviour because of my faith even though I was a quiet and studious child. In fact, it would wind me up even more as at that age it was my parents faith, not mine, at least not until the age of 13.

Also, how would they detect these things? I'm sure there will be many studious quiet children and teenagers who are up to some dodgy things. I do think this is some kind of propoganda to kid Britons that the Govt are doing what they can to 'protect' their citizens from any harm.

There have been far worse atrocities in the UK and US, Dunblane for example, which was also a horrific attack where many innocent childrens lives were taken.

Agree that the Muslim community should boycott Holocaust Memorial Day: 56 percent.
Believe that Jews in Britain have no interest in the plight of the Palestinians: 57 percent.
Believe that Jews in Britain have too much influence over British foreign policy: 53 percent.
Believe that Jews in Britain are in league with the Freemasons to control the media and politics: 46 percent.
Believe that Jews in Britain are "legitimate targets as part of the ongoing struggle for justice in the Middle East": 37 percent.
Agree that the state of Israel has the no right to exist: 30 percent. (52 percent say has the right to exist. )
Agree that suicide bombings can be justified in Israel: 16 percent. (Among 18 to 24-year-olds: 21 percent.)
Agree that suicide bombings can be justified against civilians in Britain: 7 percent. (Among 18 to 24-year-olds: 12 percent.)
Agree that suicide bombings can be justified against the military in Britain: 21 percent. (Among 18 to 24-year-olds: 28 percent.)


http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/483

Once again Val, there you go banging on about the Jewish and Israel thing, which is irrelevant to the discussion!

If the coalition pulled out of Iraq, then the Shiites and Sunnis would just start killing each other, nothing would change, civil war would take over.

Chocoholic wrote:Once again Val, there you go banging on about the Jewish and Israel thing, which is irrelevant to the discussion!

If the coalition pulled out of Iraq, then the Shiites and Sunnis would just start killing each other, nothing would change, civil war would take over.

Your obdurate stupidity boggles my mind. Once again you have no clue, read my post and then click on the link

kanelli wrote:And what makes you think that so many of us Europeans and North Americans don't understand that there is a lot of injustice going on? I certainly don't see where you would get that I don't understand it. Have you not read any of my posts in this forum over the last 9 months?

That because i AM EUROPEAN!

the reason why i say the above is due to the naure of your questioning.
Like for example, you ignore why these type of terrorists exist in the first place. You are stating that the parents should stop their kids, while completely ignoring the foreign policies of governments - WHICH ARE THE MAIN CAUSE OF THE PROBLEM.

Of course every parent can do their part - but that doesnt mean it will wipe out the problem. If you look at the terrorsists to date, most have been influenced by recent issues....But by then they were FULLY GROWN adults. So how is a parent going to keep watch over a 20 something they dont live with?

and yes i have read your posts.
They sometimes make me choke.

On one, you sounded so peed off that the Afghans wanted the taleiban back, you said they should give them what they deserve return the taleiban and then watch the women prosper at school. You completely ignored the fact that Afghanistan is in a dire state post taleiban in the hands of complete thugs and warlords. these war lords were there before the taleiban and after and are the primary reason why opium growth has consistently risen.

On another similar one, you said the Iraqis should get Saddam back if they want the Coalition out so bad - ignoring the fact that Europe and North America created that brutal dictator.

You even asked why Iraqis dont pull themslves together and stop blaming the coalition - COMPLETELY FORGETTING THAT THEY ARE STILL UNDER OCCUPATION..

So even though many people in Europe and North America understand the injustices.... some of us seem to treat them as dismisive factors.