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Well with that attitude we won't come anywhere.

It is the change of your attitude that brought us to this moment, in which you dislike it now.
It is YOU initiated laughter after my first post in response to Melika.
So get your self in line and be a decent person without loosing your cool and spoiling it all,
You are the owner of the thread and you should be the one to moderate it patiently.

At least I'm open to reading all the recommendations of you and Shafique etc

Your first reply to me says it all and how much you read. There is as differance between looking and seeing, listening and hearing you know.

Its just that an objective comparison between theory (Quran) and reality (life in islamic societies like e.g. Dubai) doesn't really add up.

Why didn’t you put it this way in the first place, it's not what you say, it's how you say it you know. There is difference between the two.
Just becouse there is no comparision in Dubai, doesn’t mean that it never existed or will never exist in future. The kind of comparison you're looking for exist but at a much smaller scale. İ.e. in families..
So You cannot put the burden and blame on every individual, but only on the ones that violate your perception.
Just becouse you may see politicians corrupt, doesn’t mean that every single individual is corrupt, that's also one of the reasons why in İslam no soul is responsible from the errors and faults of others.
If you continue to put the blame on every individual. Would that be your contemprary execution of justice? that you are tought at your civilised schools,families,society!?

You know, the muslims do not live independent of the world order(globalisation) currently being shaped by the western administration..so before you judge on the muslim, perhaps you will take the responsibilty and start to judge from your own backyard.(You know what happens to countries who try to stay out of globolisation and away from the wild effects of capitilasation). You don't need a lecture on this. Do you?

Maybe, if the tone changes more seriously again,

sincerity drips from my tongue now..
Stop please self-pittying and your damn busted sarcasm shining.
Only then you may have some sort of value in my eyes to take you seriously.

Of course with this attitude you won’t get anywhere. With this people you never will get anywhere. See in his postings, people has been grouped in two categories, believers and nonbelievers. We are nonbelievers; we are the symbol of Satan itself! We are people who the “God” offered us the immortal happiness with his magical words, but we just rejected it! We will burn in infinite fires in hell!

As I understand, for Berrin, God=religion=Islam! How someone could be more wrong?

And people who cannot even read Arabic, they claim that Quran is the word of God, and they believe in it. Ahh and such a complicated language like Arabic, it’s not easy to understand Quran for even Arabic speakers, so how can you people be this much sure that this is God talking to you? And for what he just stopped talking? Is Quran this comprehensive that covers all aspects of your lives? I definitely say No. There are verses in it regarding to the most personal and private details of prophet’s life, which is hilarious. You don’t have poets in your country? I surely say that a camel rider can write that down, he was smart and a businessman, he traveled to many places and he had lots of experiences and knowledge.

If you studied about other religions, there is an interesting fact about most of them, they all initiated from Middle East. Did you ever find a reason for it? It is because we are chosen and God like us more?! No, it’s because they are all fake and just copying from each other! If you were strong enough you won’t need it anymore.

Berrin wrote:

Well with that attitude we won't come anywhere.

It is the change of your attitude that brought us to this moment, in which you dislike it now.
It is YOU initiated laughter after my first post in response to Melika.
So get your self in line and be a decent person without loosing your cool and spoiling it all,
You are the owner of the thread and you should be the one to moderate it patiently.

At least I'm open to reading all the recommendations of you and Shafique etc

Your first reply to me says it all and how much you read. There is as differance between looking and seeing, listening and hearing you know.

Its just that an objective comparison between theory (Quran) and reality (life in islamic societies like e.g. Dubai) doesn't really add up.

Why didn’t you put it this way in the first place, it's not what you say, it's how you say it you know. There is difference between the two.
Just becouse there is no comparision in Dubai, doesn’t mean that it never existed or will never exist in future. The kind of comparison you're looking for exist but at a much smaller scale. İ.e. in families..
So You cannot put the burden and blame on every individual, but only on the ones that violate your perception.
Just becouse you may see politicians corrupt, doesn’t mean that every single individual is corrupt, that's also one of the reasons why in İslam no soul is responsible from the errors and faults of others.
If you continue to put the blame on every individual. Would that be your contemprary execution of justice? that you are tought at your civilised schools,families,society!?

You know, the muslims do not live independent of the world order(globalisation) currently being shaped by the western administration..so before you judge on the muslim, perhaps you will take the responsibilty and start to judge from your own backyard.(You know what happens to countries who try to stay out of globolisation and away from the wild effects of capitilasation). You don't need a lecture on this. Do you?

Maybe, if the tone changes more seriously again,

sincerity drips from my tongue now..
Stop please self-pittying and your damn busted sarcasm shining.
Only then you may have some sort of value in my eyes to take you seriously.

That was 'enlightening'...

Ok, first up, if you followed my thread from the beginning, you could know that the issue I address was related to the pillars of Islamic society. Not the religion or the people itself! Its about Politics (the State) and its interrelation with Religion and its detrimental influence on society which is incompatible with Western Law.

Thats was always the focus in my eyes. I now see you think I put blame on the people, which is not true. I blame your leadership in an autoritarian regime! In a democracy like my own country I would blame my people for voting in the wrong politicians. That would be the people faults. Thats not the case for most islamic societies e.g. Dubai.

Second, it isn't wrong or 'blaming' on the people (the believer in this case) to point out the police state environment that some Islamic societies have. It isn't wrong to show them the inequalities and hypocrisy that is widespread among elites in their society, despite what the Quran says in its good intentions. Most of the people don't even know what happens in those Elite circles. Don't even think about criticizing them for it! Thats not allowed by law inspired by religion...and the circle is looped.

My point is, freedom (as written in Western Law) comes from the people. You have to obtain that right by pressuring fraudulent leadership, just as Iran is doing with Moossavi against Ahmadinejad. Its a start for change. A grassroots movement. Power to the people.

I think your missing my main point of secularity. At least your reply indicates you do.

Your remark about self pity doesn't come over to me. I take full responsiblity for my viewpoints in order for you to understand them. I even correct issues that need correction. I reflect on my own society, but see an issue regarding state and religion in Islamic societies.
In my country for instance, we passed secularity in the 16th Century. We have others issues of contemporary nature like lowering dependance on fossile fuels. Spoiling of resources and stuff. Technology helps us with that diversification.

Maybe this quote gives you an insight of life as most of us admire it:

Technology as Religion

Technology causes problems; there is no disputing this fact, despite all our attempts to use technology to solve our problems. People keep wondering why new technologies have not solved our problems and met our needs; perhaps now, we can suggest one possible and partial answer: they were never meant to.

For many, the development of new technologies has been about transcending mortal and material concerns completely. When an ideology, a religion, or a technology is pursued for the purpose of escaping the human condition where problems and disappointments are a fact of life, then it shouldn't be at all surprising when those human problems are not really solved, when human needs are not entirely met and new problems are produced.

This is itself a fundamental problem with religion and why technology can be a menace — especially when pursued for religious reasons. For all the problems which we create for ourselves, only we will be able to solve them — and technology will be one of our principle means. What is required is not so much a change of means by abandoning technology, but a change in ideology by abandoning the misguided desire for transcending the human condition and taking flight from the world.

melika969 wrote:Of course with this attitude you won’t get anywhere. With this people you never will get anywhere. See in his postings, people has been grouped in two categories, believers and nonbelievers. We are nonbelievers; we are the symbol of Satan itself! We are people who the “God” offered us the immortal happiness with his magical words, but we just rejected it! We will burn in infinite fires in hell!

As I understand, for Berrin, God=religion=Islam! How someone could be more wrong?

And people who cannot even read Arabic, they claim that Quran is the word of God, and they believe in it. Ahh and such a complicated language like Arabic, it’s not easy to understand Quran for even Arabic speakers, so how can you people be this much sure that this is God talking to you? And for what he just stopped talking? Is Quran this comprehensive that covers all aspects of your lives? I definitely say No. There are verses in it regarding to the most personal and private details of prophet’s life, which is hilarious. You don’t have poets in your country? I surely say that a camel rider can write that down, he was smart and a businessman, he traveled to many places and he had lots of experiences and knowledge.

If you studied about other religions, there is an interesting fact about most of them, they all initiated from Middle East. Did you ever find a reason for it? It is because we are chosen and God like us more?! No, it’s because they are all fake and just copying from each other! If you were strong enough you won’t need it anymore.

Everything you said was music to my ears. Especially the independant tune at the end.

Of course with this attitude you won’t get anywhere. With this people you never will get anywhere.

Stop moan and groan, like my old grumpy nanny. if you have anything intelligient then don’t be afraid, show us and proove it. It's you that want to challange something that is impossible.

See in his postings, people has been grouped in two categories, believers and nonbelievers.

While you blame believers of one thing you don’t realise that you are being the same,only on the opposite end. How sensible of you that is..I am impressed of your scope of thought and logic.
It is you that make yourself hilarious not that we want you to be like that or that way..
I never wish, or categorize anyone as such, you display such qualities to stand apart from rest of us.

We are nonbelievers; we are the symbol of Satan itself! We are people who the “God” offered us the immortal happiness with his magical words, but we just rejected it! We will burn in infinite fires in hell!

That’s all what you can make out of it , isn’t it? and thats how much you can contemplate , and that is how far your sense of intelligence can take you and stop.. I guess it is only where you stumble that the true believers can take the flag over and complete the mission ordained on mankind.

As I understand, for Berrin, God=religion=Islam! How someone could be more wrong?

Absolutely… Anything you have against that or that I have proven you wrong?

And people who cannot even read Arabic, they claim that Quran is the word of God, and they believe in it. Ahh and such a complicated language like Arabic, it’s not easy to understand Quran for even Arabic speakers, so how can you people be this much sure that this is God talking to you? And for what he just stopped talking?

What proof do you have for its complexity when it is spoken by millions for reading and studying. I know that maths and pyhsics are complicated but it just doesn’t stop people from pursuing them. What other excuse you have to blame and intimidate?
Plus, I have faith in God as well as in skills and talents of his creation! Do you have doubt because you think you are deprived?
If you read a book of a dead scientist lived 100 or say 30 years ago, would you refuse to read what he says and reveals in his book, would you discard and disregard it as rubbish and such? If not, what other excuse do you have to deny that he is talking to you through his book?.
Would you refuse to interprete sign language of someone becouse he is deprived from his sight and hearing?. Can you deny existance of microbes, air, x-rays becouse you can’t see them, smell them and touch them. Would you then put the blame on your bear eyes for your disbelief or inability ?. Can you deny pyramids becouse you didn’t see their builders or intellect behind their design?
If God was talking to you like he did to his prophets then what job would there be left for you to undertake? then what would be the significance of prophets? Or God? Can you explain?

So, show us some strength of thought…will you..

Is Quran this comprehensive that covers all aspects of your lives?

Yes of course, otherwise no one comples me to believe in it.

There are verses in it regarding to the most personal and private details of prophet’s life, which is hilarious. You don’t have poets in your country? I surely say that a camel rider can write that down, he was smart and a businessman, he traveled to many places and he had lots of experiences and knowledge.

Obviously what comes to you personal and private is not personal and private for God or for me! If you don’t like it or believe that it is the truth than feel free..or just as God challenges you...don’t stop and produce a chapter like it.
But I know talking all mouth and trousers is an easier option..

If you studied about other religions, there is an interesting fact about most of them, they all initiated from Middle East. Did you ever find a reason for it? It is because we are chosen and God like us more?! No, it’s because they are all fake and just copying from each other!

What a busted mind you are, I don’t need to find a reason as to why they all initiated from ME. Furthermore I don’t limit myself to such evasive explanations as you do, when it’s already been put to correct perpective both by God and his prophet. Plus if you wish to compare then you have all the tools, means both the knowledge and intelligence to distinguish right out of falsehood.
Noone claims to be chosen, other than what God had decided himself. It is your delusion and you’re better deal with your own agony yourself. Sorry I can’t help you.

If you were strong enough you won’t need it anymore.

Do not mix me with Melika...Just as you said it I now don't know how I explained this all to you since I am all weak and creeping.

Everything you said was music to my ears. Especially the independant tune at the end.

That must be the last arty-farty thing you have left to exhibit.

Berrin wrote:That must be the last arty-farty thing you have left to exhibit.

Bla bla bla. Your reply on Melika's clearcut conclusion of her studied views on religion are not adding to the discussion. Its rather pathetic.

The only thing I found rather disturbing is your remark on your 'grumbling and moaning grandma' (shows your lack of respect for the elderly) and lack of respect for Melika's opinion. Its obvious why Melika avoids this kind of discussions, supporting her claims.

Was it too hard for you to argument on my insights, rather than showing your inability to counter her arguments with some form of reason?

Show some intellect Berrin.

argument on your insight! lol...blah blah blah...
fancy you having sensitivity over my nanny but not over your own creator!
just take a cheval glass, and look into it to tell me what you see!

Berrin wrote:argument on your insight! lol...blah blah blah...

End of discussion...

melika969 wrote:I surely say that a camel rider can write that down, he was smart and a businessman, he traveled to many places and he had lots of experiences and knowledge.

Ah...first of all almost everyone knows even the prophet was lillterate to the fact he could even write his own name let alone anything else. I personally know a few very rich and street man bussiness men who have travelled the world but yet haven't even graduated high school. And they dunno jack ?

Another question how does a desert deweller 1400 years ago. Know about facts like the big bang therory, the moon not being a light source but merely reflecting light, about fault lines. How important mountain ranges are in keeping the earths crust steady, about air pressure reducing at great heights, lights inablitiy to penetrate deep lights, the earth orbiting the sun and to go in such detail as to metion the earth shape as geo spherical and not just round, The complete detailed water cycle, The complete and detailed stages of growth of a fetus, we have pain recoptors only on the skin, air borne patheogens and dieseas, The complete separation of different bodies of water (fresh and saline, as well as saline waters of different compositions) that do not mix completely or immediately due to the constant pres ence of impassable barriers in between and many many more.

I ask you again how does an illiterate came driver living 1600 years ago know all this and more. Even though if he was a very wise man and traveled as you say but he never traveled out of the middle east.

How does he know all these scientific phenoma and facts when technogloy of modern man has only recently been able to discover these.

Almost all atheists claim to be people of logic and science and only science is the only medium to gauge fact from fiction. So how does your science explain this. He made a time machine out of camel skin and palm leaves and traveled to the future ?

Until you can 100% prove this logically how he knew all this back in the day you totally cannot disregard the Quran as being a book written by a man.

I don't hate you or think of you as the spawn of satan but do find ironic you mock and questions everyones beliefs but refuse to question you own.

Have you ever seriously contemplated that I could be wrong and there could be a god ? You accuse others of blind faith but somehow I feel your the same you have a blind faith in that there is no faith.

@ G : Like I said there are no "Islamic Societies "present today so how can you start a comparison of the Quran and Islamic Society ???

desertdudeshj wrote:

melika969 wrote:I surely say that a camel rider can write that down, he was smart and a businessman, he traveled to many places and he had lots of experiences and knowledge.

Ah...first of all almost everyone knows even the prophet was lillterate to the fact he could even write his own name let alone anything else. I personally know a few very rich and street man bussiness men who have travelled the world but yet haven't even graduated high school. And they dunno jack ?

Another question how does a desert deweller 1400 years ago. Know about facts like the big bang therory, the moon not being a light source but merely reflecting light, about fault lines. How important mountain ranges are in keeping the earths crust steady, about air pressure reducing at great heights, lights inablitiy to penetrate deep lights, the earth orbiting the sun and to go in such detail as to metion the earth shape as geo spherical and not just round, The complete detailed water cycle, The complete and detailed stages of growth of a fetus, we have pain recoptors only on the skin, air borne patheogens and dieseas, The complete separation of different bodies of water (fresh and saline, as well as saline waters of different compositions) that do not mix completely or immediately due to the constant pres ence of impassable barriers in between and many many more.

I ask you again how does an illiterate came driver living 1600 years ago know all this and more. Even though if he was a very wise man and traveled as you say but he never traveled out of the middle east.

How does he know all these scientific phenoma and facts when technogloy of modern man has only recently been able to discover these.

Perhaps he received a load of information from an old civilization like the ancient Egyptians after Cleopatra got alittle scared from the upcoming Roman Empire, so she gave her book of knowledge away to some desert roaming barbarian to keep it out of the hands of the Romans. Disprove that DD

No, of course that doesn't work that way.

Almost all atheists claim to be people of logic and science and only science is the only medium to gauge fact from fiction. So how does your science explain this. He made a time machine out of camel skin and palm leaves and traveled to the future ?

Until you can 100% prove this logically how he knew all this back in the day you totally cannot disregard the Quran as being a book written by a man.

You measure fact from fiction by using causal deterministic logic. You start with a process you want to prove and you observe the input/output variables around that process and try to replicate the environment under those observed conditions. If you can replicate the same process under its locked set of circumstances (environmental conditions) and get the same answers/values over and over...then logic becomes law (of science)...in short

And for as long as you can't understand something, you can't prove it and it remains fiction or 'a miracle'. If we focus on the things we do really understand...maybe one day we know enough (education) to find out that other problem.

Why bother about it in the meantime? If God really existed, he would have planned the time when we had to find out he existed right? It should be determined right? The man (or woman) is allmighty after all.

So until that moment happens. Focus on the facts (had to use the wink, matey)

@ G : Like I said there are no "Islamic Societies "present today so how can you start a comparison of the Quran and Islamic Society ???

I use that term to indicate 'muslim societies with islamic governments'.

Hope that clarifies.

RobbyG wrote:
Perhaps he received a load of information from an old civilization like the ancient Egyptians after Cleopatra got alittle scared from the upcoming Roman Empire, so she gave her book of knowledge away to some desert roaming barbarian to keep it out of the hands of the Romans. Disprove that DD

No, of course that doesn't work that way.

Well simple, although an advanced nation for their time they still didn't have that kind of knowledge or such exsited on this planet at that point in time. And why it doesn't work that way ?

You measure fact from fiction by using deterministic logic. You start with something you observe and you observe the input/output variables around that process and try to replicate the environment under those observed conditions. If you can replicate the same process under its locked set of circumstances (environmental conditions) and get the same answers/values over and over...then logic becomes law (of science)...in short

???? The Quran dosn't put forward a theory, And even if put to this test. Well all of the scientific facts mentioned in the quran have one by one just become that facts and not theories anymore and they have been declared fact by scientist not religious men. So again again the Quran has replicated the test result of what it contains to be know science fact today. So according to you its logic should become law

@ G : Like I said there are no "Islamic Societies "present today so how can you start a comparison of the Quran and Islamic Society ???

I use that term to indicate 'muslim societies with islamic governments'.

Hope that clarifies.[/quote]

Again doesn't matter, there are no muslim societies with Islamic goverments

Again and again every one makes the same mistake no matter how times its being pointed out. THERE IS NO PROPER ISLAMIC GOVERMENT, COUNTRY OR SOCIETY. I hope that is clear now ?

Still the question lies unanswered. We can go around in endless circles playing cat and mouse like Shaf does with his pet troll e.h and I'm in no mood !

Use your science, logic and skepticism and give me one answer that makes some sense to the depth of knowledge that desert dweller had. How is it possible ?

Still the question lies unanswered. We can go around in endless circles playing cat and mouse like Shaf does with his pet troll e.h and I'm in no mood !

Use your science, logic and skepticism and give me one answer that makes some sense to the depth of knowledge that desert dweller had. How is it possible ?

I ended up shattering here. Gimme a minute of two.

Nice word selection

Go ahead Rob. make use of your google skills as best as you can.

I just realised its freakin almost 6 am so I'm crashing out, you got all day,

desertdudeshj wrote:Go ahead Rob. make use of your google skills as best as you can.

I just realised its freakin almost 6 am so I'm crashing out, you got all day,

Sorry mate. I have the same issue. Crashing also here.

Talk later.

ps: one answer: I don't know

Lol you can continue this till the “judging day” but it will never end!
Yes Rob,that’s why I avoid such discussion!
I always said Berrin guy is the funniest, yeah go ahead Berrin, you are hilarious, moan and groan and me? Pppffffff… If I was a moaner, I would find a God for myself and moan for him, so he would put me in heaven! There is just one thing, you are one of those dangerous muslims, you don’t have the guts to become a jihadist and explode people! So you keep on your useless lectures here!

Code: Select all

Another question how does a desert deweller 1400 years ago. Know about facts like the big bang therory, the moon not being a light source but merely reflecting light, about fault lines. How important mountain ranges are in keeping the earths crust steady, about air pressure reducing at great heights, lights inablitiy to penetrate deep lights, the earth orbiting the sun and to go in such detail as to metion the earth shape as geo spherical and not just round, The complete detailed water cycle, The complete and detailed stages of growth of a fetus, we have pain recoptors only on the skin, air borne patheogens and dieseas, The complete separation of different bodies of water (fresh and saline, as well as saline waters of different compositions) that do not mix completely or immediately due to the constant pres ence of impassable barriers in between and many many more.


As I stated before, he was smart and he had lots of knowledge. One of his people “Salman-e-farsi” was the one who provided him with the information about Zerotestian, if you studied they have 5 prayers in day, they have one month for fasting, they have such similar rules like Islam, lots of other rules has been copied from jews.

I have no doubt that he was special; every camel rider can not write a book like Quran. Besides about your reasoning above, they are not mentioned in Quran very accurate and explicit. It is not easy to comprehend such things from Quran, It’s not a scienece book! So d you believe in “Nosetadamus” too because he has foretold lots of things like 9/11? there is a verse in Quran and people like you claim that, oh this means “big bang” theory!

Have you ever seriously contemplated that I could be wrong and there could be a god ? You accuse others of blind faith but somehow I feel your the same you have a blind faith in that there is no faith.

I never revealed my faith and I am not an atheist, I may believe in God but mine is not God=religion! Besides as I stated before, I was born muslim, so I had to challenege it and I had to compare and think to decide.

Oh dear, I should have know that an Iranian would be behind Islam. Ofcourse everything significant that ever happened since the begining of time, Iran or Iranian was behind it, right ?

Salam Farsi was a great man and one of the dear compatriots of the prophets, but to say the prophet got his " ideas " from him is just as ridiculas as some chirstians claim that he got his "ideas" from the roman blacksmith who was around that time.

Now probally some jew if not already will come along and say the he was influenced by some jew.

And maybe even the jews and chirstians were also influenced by some zorastrian ?

You still insist he authored the Quran....Muhammed.....illiterate ???

And conterary to what you believe its very clear about the facts in it some in great detail aswell. Ofcourse the " big Bang " is spelt out as god did not coin that term. And your right The Quran is not a book of science but signs, but among the signs are scientific fact.

And besides what would you know, you haven't even read it properly or completely by your own admission.

P.S : Nostrdamus never wrote the quatrain predicting the 9/11 attacks it's well know urban legend and internet hoax

Its not “Salam Farsi”, It is “Salman Farsi”, and as I said before,yes! all religions are copying from each other and been initiated from middle east. We believed that “Salman Farsi” has done a huge attack to his own people by contribution to Islam. Your personal issues about Persians (which you have showed before in other threads) have nothing to do with “Salman Farsi” and Iranians.

About the prophet being illiterate, that s true(as history says, but who can be sure about it?), but as you are not a blind follower you may know he does not write it down himself, his followers has done it. And have you ever heard of the story of the one who was responsible about writing down Quran, and when he became suspicious about it, the prophet ordered muslims: wherever you find him, kill him!

P.S : Nostrdamus never wrote the quatrain predicting the 9/11 attacks it's well know urban legend and internet hoax

As much as I know it was not internet hoax, and it was true, but I’m not gonna persist on it cause I’m not sure, there are lots of other stories about such predictions.

And about your book of signs!! Peeehleeaazzzeee!! I am so fed up with it’s SIGNS, so just let it go! How do you read signs when you can not understand Arabic? pppppfffffff

So your the only person in the world who reads and understands Arabic ? Great.

But again what you know like I said, who haven't even read it in its entirety ?

So your the only person in the world who reads and understands Arabic ? Great.

No, I'm not! when did I claim that I am the only one who reads and understands Arabic?

But again what you know like I said, who haven't even read it in its entirety ?

I read it entirely many times! Not just for my own curisity, I HAD to read it in school! we had two courses in each year from elementary school till university. As studying for engineering I had to pass religious and Qranic courses as well as math and physics, just in the MBA program there was no Quran!

Hey DD, I just had a report from her masters that she played truant when it was time to establish difference between knowledge and wisdom. Naughty Melika.

desertdudeshj wrote:
Salman Farsi was a great man and one of the dear compatriots of the prophets, but to say the prophet got his " ideas " from him is just as ridiculas as some chirstians claim that he got his "ideas" from the roman blacksmith who was around that time.

Now probally some jew if not already will come along and say the he was influenced by some jew.

And maybe even the jews and chirstians were also influenced by some zorastrian ?

Say DD, if you look at what Melika said, that all religions developed from the Middle East. In chronological order, this is how the books have spread accros the world. Different conviction, different religouis material needed. Lets rewrite the rules abit, hence different streams of religion.

Watch this flash video about the spreading of religion over time. (3000 B.C. till 2000 A.D.)
http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/history-of-religion.html

Notice that Islam is the youngest religion of all (founded around 570 A.D.) and can easily be one of the many republishments of the o so wise book of knowledge of the earliest Jewish around Jeruzalem (3000 B.C.), the Ancient Egyptians (3150 B.C. till the romans took over at 31 B.C.) or the Christians (32 A.D).

Archaeology does indeed have many answers of old and knowledgeable societies. But its still inexplainable how the Egyptians build the pyramids and how on earth could they have the knowledge to align them with the stars so accurately. Explain that. The book of Allah is just one of the many ripoffs from the ones that preceded it like the Bible etc.

The ignorance of today about who's right and wrong is remarkable. People are so damn stupid (unable to comprehend). Honestly myself included.

Be humble for what life has given you. Nothing more.

melika969 wrote:I read it entirely many times!

Oops. I clearly remember you said you havent read the quran completely just parts of it and even one of the guys ( shaf, berrin or dee70 ? ) calling you out on that when you again said you've read it completely ?

So what it is you have or you haven't either way doesn't matter. Your lying either ways.

I would dig up the post but really not in the mood to dig through 800 posts.

RobbyG wrote:
Say DD, if you look at what Melika said, that all religions developed from the Middle East. In chronological order, this is how the books have spread accros the world. Different conviction, different religouis material needed. Lets rewrite the rules abit, hence different streams of religion.

Watch this flash video about the spreading of religion over time. (3000 B.C. till 2000 A.D.)
http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/history-of-religion.html

Notice that Islam is the youngest religion of all (founded around 570 A.D.) and can easily be one of the many republishments of the o so wise book of knowledge of the earliest Jewish around Jeruzalem (3000 B.C.), the Ancient Egyptians (3150 B.C. till the romans took over at 31 B.C.) or the Christians (32 A.D).

Archaeology does indeed have many answers of old and knowledgeable societies. But its still inexplainable how the Egyptians build the pyramids and how on earth could they have the knowledge to align them with the stars so accurately. Explain that. The book of Allah is just one of the many ripoffs from the ones that preceded it like the Bible etc.

The ignorance of today about who's right and wrong is remarkable. People are so damn stupid (unable to comprehend). Honestly myself included.

Be humble for what life has given you. Nothing more.

Again G, It is you people who say its a a young religon while its not its the continuation of the one religon just as christianity was continuation of juadism and Islam is the final chapter of the true religon since the begining of time. Islam is not new it just completes what you might call the lonely planet handbook on living in this world travel guide. So again if you really want to debate anything related to Islam you need to read what the quran says.

As for the Egytians yes modern man hasn't been able to figure out how they built a pyramids yet, but does have a few very credible theories. And when you throw in a huge slave labour force in the mix it doesnt seem so mysterical at all. Also the pyramids arnt aligned with any stars at all ? there was a very intresting documentry about this, sorry forgot the name.

Anyways none of the theories thrown out there on how this illterate desert deweller knows such advanced scientific facts even begin to make sense.

Oh he heard it from there and this dude told him, he went to so and so place and learnt it etc etc ?? You all forget that there wans't anywhere on this planet this kind of knowledge on this planet. So doesn't matter where he went and who he met. None of them knew ?

He lived in Arabia a very backward region even for its time.

Then ofcourse then there is melikas way. Bahh this is all nonesense blah blah there is nothing in there I KNOW ARABIC YOU DONT I'VE READ THE QURAN YOU HAVEN'T SO YOU DONT KNOW JACK SON ! ( which by the she lies about )

Without even attempting to answer the question put forward. Like I said I'm no mood to go round and round in endless circles like shaf does with his pet trolls.

So if any of you can put forward a logical answer that can begin to answer this then sure I'll listen but sorry just rephrasing your old rethoric wont work. After all you take such pride in being logical creatures and not victims of raw emotions which we fool believers are guitly of, right ?

Hehe, that was the thread about the number of your prophet’s wives and it was about if he is allowed to sleep with every women on the earth, and that was the time I was playing like I don’t know much about Islam and in that thread I told I had not read Quran, So please someone explain it to me! And at the end I stated that I ve read Quran and I even explained my way of negotiation.

Again, if you do a little research about education in Iran, you will understand that it was not really my choice! I HAD to read Quran to get high school diploma and university degree. Well I’m not puppypup and I don’t need others (especially ignorants’) approval. So I will leave it here. You have fun with your thorough religion, as I said before, you people just need it, and you need some bigger power as religion to back you up! besides you have no proof for your statements as Quran is a book of God, ahh and you are coming up with “this kind of knowledge has never been in any place on the planet” which kind of knowledge? Knowledge about how prophet is allowed to sleep with his cousins!! Or the so called “big bang theory” in Quran… or Islam is the last religion, oh wait… what did you call it,”final chapter of the true religion”! yeah nice!

desertdudeshj wrote:

RobbyG wrote:
Say DD, if you look at what Melika said, that all religions developed from the Middle East. In chronological order, this is how the books have spread accros the world. Different conviction, different religouis material needed. Lets rewrite the rules abit, hence different streams of religion.

Watch this flash video about the spreading of religion over time. (3000 B.C. till 2000 A.D.)
http://www.mapsofwar.com/ind/history-of-religion.html

Notice that Islam is the youngest religion of all (founded around 570 A.D.) and can easily be one of the many republishments of the o so wise book of knowledge of the earliest Jewish around Jeruzalem (3000 B.C.), the Ancient Egyptians (3150 B.C. till the romans took over at 31 B.C.) or the Christians (32 A.D).

Archaeology does indeed have many answers of old and knowledgeable societies. But its still inexplainable how the Egyptians build the pyramids and how on earth could they have the knowledge to align them with the stars so accurately. Explain that. The book of Allah is just one of the many ripoffs from the ones that preceded it like the Bible etc.

The ignorance of today about who's right and wrong is remarkable. People are so damn stupid (unable to comprehend). Honestly myself included.

Be humble for what life has given you. Nothing more.

Again G, It is you people who say its a a young religon while its not its the continuation of the one religon just as christianity was continuation of juadism and Islam is the final chapter of the true religon since the begining of time. Islam is not new it just completes what you might call the lonely planet handbook on living in this world travel guide. So again if you really want to debate anything related to Islam you need to read what the quran says.

How can you say that when looking at the timeline provided?
The five most influential religions (each with its different derivatives) are still the greatest force of disagreement among societies today. Its just that people are growingly becoming Atheist in large part of the Western world as education advances, that religious influences are slowly diminishing. People tend to feel a need to reason by causal logic.

Islamic societies are still captured by tribal influences and 7th century practices. The growing gap between modern, sophistication development (rich) and fundamentalism (poor) is growing each day. I could argue that Islam is a poster child of development. It defies reason. Perhaps for a reason yet unclear to me (or us).

Islam is a young religion as can be seen from the map. The similarity is the fact that they all have origins around the Middle East. They relate and fight one another should say something about its origins. Who is most right about 'the holy place'. All major religions appear to be having their own convictions according to what traditions and influential leaders deem appropriate. Hence the different streamings.

As for the Egytians yes modern man hasn't been able to figure out how they built a pyramids yet, but does have a few very credible theories. And when you throw in a huge slave labour force in the mix it doesnt seem so mysterical at all. Also the pyramids arnt aligned with any stars at all ? there was a very intresting documentry about this, sorry forgot the name.

Watch this for a start. Then argue about a God, I rather think if an alien civilization. All speculation of course. It remains that way until a plausible solution appear valid.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 7012309003

Anyways none of the theories thrown out there on how this illterate desert deweller knows such advanced scientific facts even begin to make sense.

Who says its true? You and I can't prove that. A book written by a illiterate mortal one can? Common mate...

Oh he heard it from there and this dude told him, he went to so and so place and learnt it etc etc ?? You all forget that there wans't anywhere on this planet this kind of knowledge on this planet. So doesn't matter where he went and who he met. None of them knew?

He lived in Arabia a very backward region even for its time.

Then ofcourse then there is melikas way. Bahh this is all nonesense blah blah there is nothing in there I KNOW ARABIC YOU DONT I'VE READ THE QURAN YOU HAVEN'T SO YOU DONT KNOW JACK SON ! ( which by the she lies about )

Without even attempting to answer the question put forward. Like I said I'm no mood to go round and round in endless circles like shaf does with his pet trolls.

Shafique uses one of the best ways of reasoning, namely the Socrates method of interrogation. Its requires a person to answer a simple question for truth and additional questions to argue this logic and tries to defy their own logic.

The most interesting and influential thinker in the fifth century was Socrates, whose dedication to careful reasoning transformed the entire enterprise. Since he sought genuine knowledge rather than mere victory over an opponent, Socrates employed the same logical tricks developed by the Sophists to a new purpose, the pursuit of truth. Thus, his willingness to call everything into question and his determination to accept nothing less than an adequate account of the nature of things make him the first clear exponent of critical philosophy.

It shows hypocrisy and fraudulent minds seemingly easily.

So if any of you can put forward a logical answer that can begin to answer this then sure I'll listen but sorry just rephrasing your old rethoric wont work. After all you take such pride in being logical creatures and not victims of raw emotions which we fool believers are guitly of, right ?

Look Berrin, this is self pity. Without lack of better arguments, emotion takes over...

DD, try to have an open mind. A book merely provides an insight. It never holds the entire truth and hasn't brought you prosperity.

Technology and science helped us make life easier. Because we can reproduce its outcomes. Lets embrace that and focus on improvement instead of an old book of a desert roamer.

Who really cares? Not a visionary or pioneer. They look forward.

* Yawn

A hour long sermon on everything but what was asked. I'm much lesser man than Shaf and CANNOT keep going round ad round. Sorry I'm out.

@ Melika :Sad really. When reach end of wits resort to same old anti islamic regurgitated trash. And then you wonder why I call you a troll ?

I've had it with this debate where nothing is addressed or answered clearly peace out and unsubscribing to this thread.

Cheers

desertdudeshj wrote:* Yawn

A hour long sermon on everything but what was asked. I'm much lesser man than Shaf and CANNOT keep going round ad round. Sorry I'm out.

@ Melika :Sad really. When reach end of wits resort to same old anti islamic regurgitated trash. And then you wonder why I call you a troll ?

I've had it with this debate where nothing is addressed or answered clearly peace out and unsubscribing to this thread.

Cheers

If you want clearcut answers on a plate...sorry I can't give you that. The world is to complicated for that.

We can argue with reason. If thats not one of your virtues, that ok. Some study a few years, others like the practical sense of things and go do manual labor.

Both have beneficial aspects in life. Just don't become a theist, because it makes you look back in history and if we all did that, society wouldn't produce anything, let alone obtain forward looking developments.

Ciao.

@troll dudes: I dont care what you call me, and they are not "old anti islamic regurgitated trash". They are the "knowledge" in your SIGN book. RobbyG provided a comprehensive logic, and you never answered to him, so yeah it is better for you to peace out, cause all you can do is labeling on people, which you are not even good at it!

Look Berrin, this is self pity. Without lack of better arguments, emotion takes over...

the differance is that I don't follow the crap literature like you do to strengthen my tought to bullshit the notion of no God no creation therefore a life without purpose. There are so many things revealed to lead me to the right path and compare.
I don't put my wisdom behind me to chase me into swamp. It goes before me to lead into research in contemplation- for the state that I am. I am not driven by my ago or a mere blindfoldedness to create a pompous spirit in race with worldy gains like you do. I am not captive of such evasive and allusive way of arguments or thoughts...So you go and sort yourself out first instead of polluting and making yourself menial in the eyes of others...

Technology and science helped us make life easier.

Yes your swamped wisdom can't to tell you that your technology is also leaving millions of people without a job. And can't tell you that in thousands of years to come it will be the very reason for millions of things in abondance that noone will need your legend or anything like that even if you provide without a charge. You busted idiot.