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freza wrote:This poll does not reflect reality. The issue is NOT about wiping out Israel! Israel's existence is not at risk here. Who is trying to wipe out whom at this very moment? I'm not talking about words I'm talking about ACTIONS; saying that Israel should be eradicated and actually trying to eradicate it are two very different things. Israel has just destroyed another country's infrastructure and economy to the point of collapse, and you're concerned about some wishing death to Israel? Someone has their priorities seriously distorted here.

Ms Kanelli, you seem to pay more attention to some people's wishful thinking and empty threats than to Israeli's bombing campaigns. This defies logic by all means.

Freza, this poll is not a priority to me - it was only to satisfy my curiosity. If Arabs and Israelis are going to slaughter each other, then so be it. I am not Arab or Israeli, and my family is safe and sound in Canada - so I don't really have to be passionate about this subject do I? The fact remains that I do care because I care about others outside of my family and country, and I care about peace in the world and a good standard of living for all.

If Israel did not exist, there would be no Arab-Israeli conflict now would there? That is the reason behind option 2 in the poll.

kanelli wrote:

freza wrote:This poll does not reflect reality. The issue is NOT about wiping out Israel! Israel's existence is not at risk here. Who is trying to wipe out whom at this very moment? I'm not talking about words I'm talking about ACTIONS; saying that Israel should be eradicated and actually trying to eradicate it are two very different things. Israel has just destroyed another country's infrastructure and economy to the point of collapse, and you're concerned about some wishing death to Israel? Someone has their priorities seriously distorted here.

Ms Kanelli, you seem to pay more attention to some people's wishful thinking and empty threats than to Israeli's bombing campaigns. This defies logic by all means.

Freza, this poll is not a priority to me - it was only to satisfy my curiosity. If Arabs and Israelis are going to slaughter each other, then so be it. I am not Arab or Israeli, and my family is safe and sound in Canada - so I don't really have to be passionate about this subject do I? The fact remains that I do care because I care about others outside of my family and country, and I care about peace in the world and a good standard of living for all.

If Israel did not exist, there would be no Arab-Israeli conflict now would there? That is the reason behind option 2 in the poll.

Why are you not getting me? I think my words are pretty self-explanatory, but here I am repeating myself again. The REAL issue is not Israelis and Arabs slaughtering each other, the reality is that the Israelis are doing the slaughtering and wiping out. You make it seem as if this conflict is even, it is NOT, it is far from even. All that you need to do to see this is turn on our TV - it's there and very clear, Israel is obliterating Lebanon and no one is stopping it. Israel has gone back on its promises (once again) in regards to Gaza and has invaded it bringing chaos and bloodshed - no one is stopping it.


I think the more realistic hypothetical question should be: "If Palestinian territories and Lebanon did not exist, there would be no Arab-Israeli conflict now would there? " Yeah, exactly. Why do you think Israel is doing what it's doing? Israel does not want peace - it is so obvious. What we want does not matter when Israel and the US can get away with murder and destruction while blatantly ignoring international opinions and laws.

Freza, I do understand. As I have said in other threads that you probably have not read, Israel is out of control right now. They are being ridiculously heavy handed. Having said this, it is not like Israel picked Lebanon out of a hat as this months target. Hizbollah crossed the border and kidnapped two Israeli soldiers. If Hizbollah had not done that, my Lebanese friends would be back visiting their families right now as there would be no bombing. Hamas and all kinds of militant groups have shelled Israeli territory killing Israelis citizens, and suicide bombers have blown themselves up on buses and in public places in Israel. I would hardly call this a one-sided conflict. Each party takes it turn to attack, and Israel overpowers because it has the weapons and money, and yes, more backing from the international community. This is not fair, as I have mentioned in previous threads. If each side resorts to violence there will never be peace.

Kanelli its pretty obvious now that this is has nothing to do with the two kidnapped soldiers. This is an operation that israel has been preparing for a long time. The soldiers are put in the bottom of the lists of requests, they are just merely an excuse. kidnapping and skirmishes have been happening along the border with lebanon for the past 6 years, only now Israel found that the situation is ripe to give lebanon a strike.

How do you know the Israelis were itching to attack Lebanon? Even if they were, Hizbollah gave them the way in, didn't they? What strategic purpose did kidnapping the two Israeli soldiers have? Perhaps to incite Israel to attack and stir up a hornets nest in the region. I'm sure that the everyday Lebanese are happy with Hizbollah's political games - look at what it has gotten for them and their country.

kanelli wrote:How do you know the Israelis were itching to attack Lebanon?

Israel has been itching to get hezbollah out of the south, they cant handle the fact that this powerful armed mini army is threatning there norther borders. Ever since they left in 2000 Israel has been trying to infiltrate hezbollah, pressure syria (via the US) and other tactics (some might tell you killing the hariri was part of that plot too). Israel is used to winning, and hezbollah defied that, they need to go one or the other.

kanelli wrote:Even if they were, Hizbollah gave them the way in, didn't they? What strategic purpose did kidnapping the two Israeli soldiers have? Perhaps to incite Israel to attack and stir up a hornets nest in the region. I'm sure that the everyday Lebanese are happy with Hizbollah's political games - look at what it has gotten for them and their country.

They are to be used to exchange the 10 thousand arab prisonsers in israeli prisons with no trial or any sort of due process. Lots of the freed prisonsers talked about intense torture and even sodomy. Hezbollah is trying to get those in the prison right now out, and they know the israeli goverment has done prisoner exchanges before.


Trust me Israel's timing of this hit is not random, they are playing the lebanese internal divisions to the maxiumum. However i must say they have failed, since i have seen an increasing solidarity with the resistance since the begining of this. more and more lebanese people have realised Israel's ploy.

Kanelli

Sorry, but I think you are being very naive about this entire situation. I completely agree with what Maad says, Israel did not decide to attack only after Hezbollah's kidnappings - the kidnappings were nothing but a ruse. Hezbollah had done prisoner exchanges with Israel before. Recently Hez not only attempted (but failed) to kidnap soldiers - they had announced their intentions publicly - it was no secret, Israel knew what was coming. The kidnapping was just an excuse to attack and invade the same way that those elusive weapons of mass destruction were an (extremely bad) excuse for the US to attack Iraq. History is quite clear - when the US and Israel want something, nothing stands in the way, "truth" and legitimate reasons not being an exception.

Hezbollah kicked out the last Israeli forces out of the Lebanon so this is about getting even and going after what it wanted in the first place: To establish a proxy government in Lebanon and crush any enemies along its borders. The Syrian withdrawal was well orchestrated, the excuse was Hariri's murder, but it could have been any other excuse. This was all planned just like any significant military attack is planned. I recommend that you read this article stating how Israel were planning this invasion at least one year ago. There was also an article on the online edition of the Jerusalem Post, stating significant troop prepardeness along the Lebanese border prior to the kidnapping.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/07/21/MIDEAST.TMP&type=printable

Kanelli, I just wonder, why would anyone at this point trust anything coming from the US administration and its strongest ally? The US/Israel are one, and yet their propaganda is picked up by many people. After so much deceit, how can you still trust what these two nations have to say? "If Hizbollah had not done that, my Lebanese friends would be back visiting their families right now as there would be no bombing." This is precisely what Israel would want you to believe. And I guess their propaganda has proven effective in your case.

As to Palestinian crisis not being an unequal, wow, are you serious? Re: Palestinian lands, how can Palestinians lacking basic defense means, be capable of enacting justice when attacked? Suicide bombs are a weapon of last resort to those that lack the conventional weapons that Israel uses. Are you saying that home-made bombs detonated by a single person cause the same amount of damage that a series of bombs and shellings do? Statistically they don't, just in case common sense wouldn't already give you the answer to this one.