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What if one of us was asked for a solution to the present Israel/Lebanon situation which does not involve the destruction of Israel or the palestinians/arabs (as this will not happen).

What will you tell the world the solution should be?

Implementation of all UN resolutions.

In a nutshell - Israel gives up all land occupied after 1967 and allows Palestinian refugees right to return to the land of their ancestors.

Compensation and restitution should be given to Israelis who will need to give up possessions etc, and compensation/restitution given to Palestinians so they can enjoy the same quality of life as those who are occupying their land now.

All dues owed to sovereign governments and territories paid - no keeping back of tax revenue that is owed to the Palestinian authorities etc.

Couple this with full democratic rights in all territories and international support for the elected governments and you have a fair and equitable solution that will give very few people a cause for hatred towards Jews and the US.

Oh - and free all political prisoners, including the women and children being held in Israel.

'You may say I'm a dreamer...'

How does that sound?

Cheers,
Shafique

well said!

now how can each member of this forum contribute something to this?

Shaf, for a utopian solution that might not be bad, although there are few clauses that I don't think can ever happen.

What I think is possible, is 1967 borders with land adjustment but keeping with land continuation. Which means that Israel will not have to dismantle some its largest settlements - but that it will sacrific land in other areas, keeping the actaully land size the same. Also there will be no Israeli settlements in the middle of Palestine.

Right of return will never be agreed to by Israel, since an influx of a few million Palestinians will mean that Israel loses its Jewish identity. But those who lost land/property should be compensated. In addition, the 700,00 Jews who were basically evicted from their Arab homelands after the establishment of Israel should also be compensated.

Mraph - utopia is where you start, then negotiate.. I would agree with your assessment of what would be acceptable to Israel, but the main hurdle will be the removal of the injustice felt by the Palestinian refugees.

If right to return is not allowed, then at the very least substantial compensation should be paid and they should be allowed to move into the land vacated. It has to be fair though - there are arid areas and fertile areas, both sides need to feel that they have been treated fairly.

You also raise an interesting point about the demographics of Israel, that a majority of muslims/Arabs will mean Israel loses it's Jewishness. I agree this would happen if Palestinians refugees were allowed to return to their homeland.

This question of Jews becoming a minority is taxing the Israeli goverment at the moment - with population projections predicting that this will happen with a few decades, given the relative birth rates in Arab Israeli communities vs Jewish Israelis!

Time will tell whether we'll ever see a time when the majority are allowed to elect their representatives to government or not.

Cheers,
Shafique

That's why I think the '1967-adjusted' formula will in the end be agreed to by Israel. Because they will "sacrifice" the areas which are predominately areas. This is a convienient way for them to keep the Jewish majority. Because as you correctly stated, I think that in another 50 years the Arabs will become a majority anyway.

My utopian solution is a single Palestine, coinhabited by Jews and Arabs.

Mraph - ironically, your utopian solution is exactly what was promised to the inhabitants of Palestine of the time.

Before 1947, Jews and Arabs peacefully co-inhabited in the region for millenium and a half, with only a few minor exceptions. In the run up to 1947, there was a great influx of Jews - more than went to the US etc (who closed their borders to the Jews in 1924) - and all were integrated peaceably.

Sadly, whilst this was made patently clear to the UN in 1947, the seed of discontent and injustice was planted and here we are.

mraph33 wrote: Right of return will never be agreed to by Israel, since an influx of a few million Palestinians will mean that Israel loses its Jewish identity. But those who lost land/property should be compensated. In addition, the 700,00 Jews who were basically evicted from their Arab homelands after the establishment of Israel should also be compensated.

Sorry Marph, but this would not count as a "solution".

shafique wrote:Implementation of all UN resolutions.

In a nutshell - Israel gives up all land occupied after 1967 and allows Palestinian refugees right to return to the land of their ancestors.

Compensation and restitution should be given to Israelis who will need to give up possessions etc, and compensation/restitution given to Palestinians so they can enjoy the same quality of life as those who are occupying their land now.

All dues owed to sovereign governments and territories paid - no keeping back of tax revenue that is owed to the Palestinian authorities etc.

Couple this with full democratic rights in all territories and international support for the elected governments and you have a fair and equitable solution that will give very few people a cause for hatred towards Jews and the US.

Oh - and free all political prisoners, including the women and children being held in Israel.

'You may say I'm a dreamer...'

How does that sound?

Cheers,
Shafique

sounds good execpt there does not appear to be any benefit to israel. it may look like a one-sided 'solution'. there needs to be some compromising. the best negotiated settlement is when each party is eaually unhappy (as they will never get all they want but 'you get what you need').

shafique wrote:Implementation of all UN resolutions.

can i add to that .. "in the order they were issued"

MaaaD wrote:

shafique wrote:Implementation of all UN resolutions.

can i add to that .. "in the order they were issued"

51 views to date and it appears that "implement UN resolutions" has it so far.

I-No-Jack wrote:

mraph33 wrote: Right of return will never be agreed to by Israel, since an influx of a few million Palestinians will mean that Israel loses its Jewish identity. But those who lost land/property should be compensated. In addition, the 700,00 Jews who were basically evicted from their Arab homelands after the establishment of Israel should also be compensated.

Sorry Marph, but this would not count as a "solution".

Why do you say Arab refugees should be compensated but not Jewish ones?

I-No-Jack wrote:What if one of us was asked for a solution to the present Israel/Lebanon situation which does not involve the destruction of Israel or the palestinians/arabs (as this will not happen).

What will you tell the world the solution should be?

Love.

mraph33 wrote:

I-No-Jack wrote:

mraph33 wrote: Right of return will never be agreed to by Israel, since an influx of a few million Palestinians will mean that Israel loses its Jewish identity. But those who lost land/property should be compensated. In addition, the 700,00 Jews who were basically evicted from their Arab homelands after the establishment of Israel should also be compensated.

Sorry Marph, but this would not count as a "solution".

Why do you say Arab refugees should be compensated but not Jewish ones?

and who exactly said that the jewish regugees should not be compensated

shafique wrote:Implementation of all UN resolutions.

In a nutshell - Israel gives up all land occupied after 1967 and allows Palestinian refugees right to return to the land of their ancestors.

Compensation and restitution should be given to Israelis who will need to give up possessions etc, and compensation/restitution given to Palestinians so they can enjoy the same quality of life as those who are occupying their land now.

All dues owed to sovereign governments and territories paid - no keeping back of tax revenue that is owed to the Palestinian authorities etc.

Couple this with full democratic rights in all territories and international support for the elected governments and you have a fair and equitable solution that will give very few people a cause for hatred towards Jews and the US.

Oh - and free all political prisoners, including the women and children being held in Israel.

'You may say I'm a dreamer...'

How does that sound?

Cheers,
Shafique

Shaf,

As always, well said.... You are the next UN Sec Gen.



This very intellectual conversation for me to be able to contribute, but i want to second shaf in one point.

Jews co-existed in arab land before and were part of the society, and as far as i know "at least in my country Egypt" they were not evicted or kicked out. They feared the consequences and left with their own will, so flet to "the promise land" some left to Russia, and eastern europ.

Anyway, i belive jews can coexist as before with arabs in nations with no problem as it happened before.

cheers