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Unfortunately the passages don't say they are sent to hell.

So, let's talk about the Koran. There's plenty of hell verses for unbelievers there.

Unfortunately for you, I'll keep repeating the questions that you are refusing to answer.

What is this place where the damned and condemned go after death called in your new religion?

How is it different from the place Christians call 'Hell'?

The Biblical verses say that Hindus (as an example of those who don't believe in Jesus as saviour) will be damned and condemned. Christians say they will go to hell (as I showed when I quoted from the article making this very point).

Where do the Hindus go to in your new religion?

When we establish this, then we can compare your new religion's teachings with Islam's description of hell and who goes to it.

Cheers,
Shafique

Passages in the Koran that say unbelievers are sent to hell seem pretty explicit to me.

Why don't we compare what the Koran says with the Bible?

Nope, let's deal with your original post where you said the Bible was unclear on what happens to unbelievers.

Now you've ended up starting a new religion where Hindus are damned and condemned, but don't go to hell. Where do they go, in this new religion of yours?

Cheers,
Shafique

Who knows, but this thread is about verses in two respective holy books that declare unbelievers are sent to hell.

Let's start with the explicit verses and then edge closer to implied meanings.

It's only logical to start with the clearest meanings and move on from there, after all.

event horizon wrote:Who knows,

I asked you to back your comment in the OP about the Bible being unclear about what happens to unbelievers.

Christians believe in the Bible when it says they are damned and condemned, and say that they go to hell.

What does your 'new and improved' religion say they go? You started this thread and made some wild statements, time to back them up young one.

What happens to the condemned and damned unbelievers in the Bible eh, and how is this different from your new religion? Stop messing around.

Cheers,
Shafique

Baby steps. Once we look at what the explicit passages say, then we can derive meaning for the implied ones.

Here are some explicit passages from the Koran:

Quran (22:19-21) But as for those who disbelieve, garments of fire will be cut out for them; boiling fluid will be poured down on their heads; Whereby that which is in their bellies, and their skins too, will be melted; And for them are hooked rods of iron

Quran (4:56) - Those who disbelieve Our revelations, We shall expose them to the Fire. As often as their skins are consumed We shall exchange them for fresh skins that they may taste the torment Lo! Allah is ever Mighty, Wise

Quran (56:92-94) - But if he is of the rejecters, the erring, then the welcome will be boiling water and roasting at hell-fire

Quran (9:17) It is not for the idolaters to inhabit God's places of worship, witnessing against themselves unbelief; those -- their works have failed them, and in the Fire they shall dwell forever.

Happy to come to the Quranic verses once we clear up what your new religion says about the 'damned' and 'condemned' unbelievers, and where they will go.

How is your new religion different from the Biblical hell that Christians say is the destination for these 'damned' and 'condemned'?

Your comment in the OP is what you're now running away from. In your new religion - what is the hell described in the Bible like? Does it not have fire and brimstone etc?

Cheers,
Shafique

Happy to come to the Quranic verses once we clear up what your new religion says about the 'damned' and 'condemned' unbelievers, and where they will go.

That they're condemned.

Duh.

Now, are you ready to address the explicit hell passages in the Koran?

shafique wrote:Happy to come to the Quranic verses once we clear up what your new religion says about the 'damned' and 'condemned' unbelievers, and where they will go.

event horizon wrote:That they're condemned.

Duh.

Duh, indeed.

Where will the condemned go in your new religion?

In Christianity the condemned go to hell.

Cheers,
Shafique

We're comparing what the Bible/Koran say, not what respective religions say.

Does the Bible in those passages explicitly say 'condemn' = 'hell'?

No.

What bizare logic - you believe in talking donkeys, but yet have invented a new religion where the 'condemned' Hindus DON'T go to hell and you refuse to divulge what this new religion of yours says about where they go to.

LOL

Nice one.

In Christianity, the condemned go to hell. Christians use the Bible to come to this conclusion. Your argument therefore seems to be with Christians.

Cheers,
Shafique

Shafique I don't think he has read his own bible.

Here is one passage about hell.

“Once again, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was let down into the lake and caught all kinds of fish. When it was full, the fishermen pulled it up on the shore. Then they sat down and collected the good fish in baskets, but threw the bad away. This is how it will be at the end of the age. The angels will come and separate the wicked from the righteous and throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

(Matthew 13:47-50)

Nucleus - I'm sure he has indeed read these passages, given that I have quoted them before - including the 'fire and brimstone' passages.

However, the young extremist can't acknowledge these verses as he is trying (but failing) to argue that Islam's descriptions of Hell are somehow less horrific than the Biblical/Christian concept of Hell.

He's trying his best to ignore the fact that the Quran talks about the after-life a lot and in each case describes heaven and hell. He ignores the passages about Heaven - which are more descriptive and indeed are more numerous - therefore ignoring the fact that the Quran uses the carrot of heaven more than the stick of hell (and in any case presents both as rewards and punishments for our choices).

But what is most funny is that the young erstwhile Christian has invented a new religion where the 'damned' and 'condemned' don't go to Hell. I suspect that he does agree with Christians who rightly say the Bible condemns the damned Hindus etc to Hell, but he just can't bring himself to acknowledge this fact.

Cheers,
Shafique

Interesting.

So far: No Bible passage saying unbelievers go to hell has been presented.

Numerous Koranic passages saying unbelievers go to hell have been presented.

Facts over hype.

event horizon wrote:So far: No Bible passage saying unbelievers go to hell has been presented.

Here is one.
Revelation 21:8 "But for the cowardly and UNBELIEVING and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death."

Just curious why a benevolent God would punish you for having your own opinion, especially without offering any hard evidence of his existence?

Thanks Andy.

As my second post in this thread pointed out, the Biblical descriptions of hell, including Rev 21.8 have already been given to eh in previous discussions (if you click on the first link you'll see that this very reference was given back in Oct 2010). I also explained why eh started this thread, and note that he STILL hasn't tackled the questions posed concerning salvation etc under Christianity:

shafique wrote:More smoke and mirrors (and it starts with a funny dream eh must have had).

In any case, this topic has already been covered in full (including the Biblical descriptions of fire and brimstone):
philosophy-dubai/life-after-death-according-islam-t11871.html


The real reason eh has decided to attempt his usual distracting tactic, is that we are waiting for eh to clarify his Christian views on what is required for salvation:

Eh - clarify one thing for me: Do you believe that if a person ONLY has faith that Jesus is saviour and that person does NOT do good works, he won't be saved? I've met Christians who say if you have faith you will be saved, regardless of whether you do good works. Is this your belief?

The attempt at changing the subject will not work.

Note - I'll be happy to tackle any additional questions raised in this or the older thread when eh clarifies his view (and we'll just assume that eh DOES believe the Pope is the anti-Christ - I can't be arsed to ask him that question 200 times as well).

Cheers,
Shafique