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event horizon · May 21, 2011

The Western public has recently been introduced tp the word 'Islamophobia'/'Islamophobe'. Some see it as a new adjective some may use to poison the well with.

CAIR, an American-Muslim group, has even listed five bullet point examples of Islamophobia. In this thread, we'll be dealing with the first:

Islam is monolithic and cannot adapt to new realities.

Islam does not share common values with other major faiths.

Islam as a religion is inferior to the West. It is archaic, barbaric and irrational.

Islam is a religion of violence and supports terrorism.

Islam is a violent political ideology.

What I'm having trouble with, is knowing when in practice portraying Islam as a monolith is actually Islamophobic.

Claims that Islam does not condone honor killings or that Islam is a religion of peace are both as monolithic as saying does Islam condones honor killing or Islam is religion of war.

One now wonders if the skeptics were always correct - is Islamophobia simply a term for some to use against those with whom they disagree with but have little in way of argument to muster?

dubai-politics-talk/the-war-adjectives-t46296.html

zubber · May 21, 2011

An excellent discussion, you better pray to whatever is it that you worship, that muzlims dont come into power, For people like you shall be harvested for organs

Dillon · May 21, 2011

Is that official Muslim policy then Zubber?

Mahmoud04 · May 21, 2011

Bethsmum · May 22, 2011

zubber wrote:An excellent discussion, you better pray to whatever is it that you worship, that muzlims dont come into power, For people like you shall be harvested for organs

We rest our case!

Mahmoud04 · May 22, 2011

Dillon wrote:Is that official Muslim policy then Zubber?

Official

shafique · May 22, 2011

I guess that eh hasn't disappeared in poof then. Sigh, so much for yet another American Christian theory!

As for Islamophobia - there's a clear distinction between being critical about Islam's teachings or questioning Islamic theology, and being an Islamophobe.

The difference is equivalent to being a critic of Israel's criminal actions and an anti-Semite.

In both cases there are many Muslims and Jews who are critical about some interpretations of Islam or critical of Israel's crimes. These Muslims and Jews are neither Islamophobes or Anti-Semites. Similarly, non-Muslims and non-Jews who have the same views are not Islamophobes or anti-semites.

The characteristic of an Islamophobe (or more succinctly, a 'loon') is well defined. Loonwatch.com is devoted to exposing the loons and distinguishing them from sincere critics of Islam. It also handily contains the definitions of what a loon is.

Cheers,
Shafique

Bethsmum · May 22, 2011

So EH, does this mean you are off Sir Shafique's foe list and what is more important, is this a good or a bad thing?

Flying Dutchman · May 22, 2011

There has never been a clear definition of Islamophobia. Those who accuse others of Islamophobia, have never been able to provide one. They just use it left and right without knowing for themselves what it means.

For example:

shafique wrote:As for Islamophobia - there's a clear distinction between being critical about Islam's teachings or questioning Islamic theology, and being an Islamophobe.

We have seen several times that poster Shafique calls criticising sharia law as Islamophobic.

The way I see it, is that Islamophobia means an irrational fear of Islam. Criticism about Islam is not irrational. In fact criticism about Islam is based on their own holy book. Nothing is made up. Islamophobia and anti-semitism are not different sides of the same coin. What is found interesting about the CAIR definition is that it doesnot refer to actual discrimination against Muslims, but to allegedly inappropriate criticism of Sharia law and Islam in general.

event horizon · May 23, 2011

These so-called 'clear distinctions' are not listed. Interesting that.

I guess they'll be kept secret so they can't be scrutinized.

Unsurprisingly, I may add, is that there has been no attempt to address why presenting Islam as a monolith is sometimes Islamophobic and sometimes it's not.

kanelli · May 24, 2011

So a person who is critical of women is never a misogynist, just a critic.

Bora Bora · May 24, 2011

kanelli wrote:So a person who is critical of women is never a misogynist, just a critic.

I'm sure EH is pleased that you are catching on. :lol:

event horizon · May 24, 2011

kanelli wrote:So a person who is critical of women is never a misogynist, just a critic.

So someone who is critical of Israel is an anti-Semite, not merely a harmless critic.

desertdudeshj · May 24, 2011

Atleast thats what the Israeli govt wants everyone to think

Flying Dutchman · May 24, 2011

desertdudeshj wrote:Atleast thats what the Israeli govt wants everyone to think

Many definitions of antisemitism around the globe include the fact that antisemites do target Israel. This is not only Israel, but I would say all around the civilized world. There is no question that some Israeli politicians and pro-Israel people around the world use the anti-semitic label to try to silence valid critizism. However, on the hand, many more anti-semitites hide behind "anti-Zionism".

As an example some quotes of the EU working definition of anti-semitism. This doesnot necesarily coincide with my opinion on the subject.

http://www.fra.europa.eu/fraWebsite/mat ... -draft.pdf

Working definition: "Antisemitism is a certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as hatred toward Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are directed toward Jewish or non-Jewish individuals and/or their property, toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities."
In addition, such manifestations could also target the state of Israel, conceived as a Jewish collectivity

- Making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, or stereotypical allegations about Jews as such or the power of Jews as collective - such as, especially but not exclusively, the myth about a world Jewish conspiracy or of Jews controlling the media, economy, government or other societal institutions.

Examples of the ways in which antisemitism manifests itself with regard to the state of Israel taking into account the overall context could include:
- Denying the Jewish people their right to self-determination, e.g. by claiming that the existence of a State of Israel is a racist endeavour.
- Applying double standards by requiring of it a behaviour not expected or demanded of any other democratic nation.
- Drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to that of the Nazis.

However, criticism of Israel similar to that levelled against any other country cannot be regarded as antisemitic.

desertdudeshj · May 25, 2011

Neither does it coincide with my opinion aswell. I don't believe Anti Semitism has anything to do with the state of Israel, unless one was using the term Israel synomously or instead of Jew or jews. Israel is a country and not a race or religion, thats my opinion.

To be honest the whole term anti semite exclusively for Jews is wrong. Arabs also form part of the semetic people.

Bethsmum · May 25, 2011

desertdudeshj wrote:Neither does it coincide with my opinion aswell. I don't believe Anti Semitism has anything to do with the state of Israel, unless one was using the term Israel synomously or instead of Jew or jews. Israel is a country and not a race or religion, thats my opinion.

To be honest the whole term anti semite exclusively for Jews is wrong. Arabs also form part of the semetic people.

Did you learn that on wikipedia munchkin?

shafique · May 25, 2011

Astonishingly, some people would consider this Jewish MP (whose grandmother died in the Holocaust) as an anti-Semite for pointing out the crimes of Israel and rightly pointing out the similarity between Israeli military crimes and Nazi crimes:

Bethsmum · May 25, 2011

I thought this topic was about Islamophobia?

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