US Religous Beliefs

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US Religous beliefs Jun 24, 2010
'eh' expressed his belief that Christians were rational and did not interpret the Bible literally and were generally progressive in rejecting verses which science had contradicted. This is indeed to be applauded and a noble practice indeed.

I agree that many Christians (especially scientists who are Christian) take this pragmatic view and despair of their fellow believers who are 'literalists'.

Now, given that eh is a young American, I recalled reading recently about the proportion of Americans (in general, not just Christians) who believed in Biblical explanations of creation. When I looked it up, it was a from a talk given in the 1980s and referring to surveys taken in the 80s. Back then, large proportions did not believe in evolution (man was created in current form) and that the universe is a few thousand years old, with fossils being fakes.

If the US Christians have really changed their minds in the meantime, then this is a really positive move and one we must surely congratulate the Christians in America on their progressive approach. (Seriously - it is quite an achievement to change people's views in this way).

eh - do you have more up-to-date stats on the proportions who reject the 'literalist' view of the Bible's explanations for creation etc? To what extent are people like Dawkins etc responsible for this decrease in 'literalist believers'? (I'm assuming that there has been a decrease).


Anyhoo - here is what Chomsky said in 1989 (taken from pg 50 of 'Understanding Power - The Indispensible Chomsky')

Footnote 34:
For polls on Americans' religious beliefs, see for example, George Gallup, Jr. and Jim Castelli, The People's Religion: American Faith in the 90's, New York: Macmillan, 1989, pp. 46-48, 4, 14. This study gives the United States a rating of 67 on its "Religion Index," based on various indicators -- whereas West Germany, Norway, the Netherlands, Great Britain, and France all had scores in the thirties, and Denmark brought up the rear with a 21. It also finds that:

• Nine Americans in ten say they have never doubted the existence of God.
• Eight Americans in ten say they believe they will be called before God on Judgment Day to answer for their sins.
• Eight Americans in ten believe God still works miracles.
• Seven Americans in ten believe in life after death.

Richard Severo, "Poll Finds Americans Split on Creation Idea," New York Times, August 29, 1982, section 1, p. 22 (reporting a Gallup poll which found that 44 percent of Americans believe "God created man pretty much in his present form at one time within the last 10,000 years," 38 percent accept divine guidance of evolution, and a mere 9 percent accept Darwinian evolution -- a number not much above statistical error).



Religious Fanaticism
WOMAN: Fundamentalist religion has really taken off in the last decade,
maybe as an outlet for some of this despair. Do you have any thoughts
about the significance of that development in the U.S?


It's pretty amazing what's happened, actually. There have been a lot of cross-cultural studies of what social scientists call "religious fanaticism" not people who just believe in God or go to church, but they're really kind of fanatic about it, it's the kind of fanatic religious commitment that permeates your whole life. And what these studies demonstrate is that this is a typical characteristic of pre-industrial societies-in fact, it correlates very closely with industrialization: as industrialization goes up, this kind of religious fanaticism goes down. Well, there are two countries that are basically off the curve. One of them is Canada, which has more fundamentalist commitment than you would expect given its level of industrialization. The other is the United States-which is totally off the chart: we're like a shattered peasant society. I mean, the last study I saw of it was done in around 1980, and the United States was at the level of Bangladesh, it was very close to Iran.33 Eighty percent of Americans literally believe in religious miracles. Half the population thinks the world was created a couple thousand years ago and that fossils were put here to mislead people or something-half the population. You just don't find things like that in other industrial societies.


Well, a lot of political scientists and others have tried to figure out why this aberration exists. It's one of the many respects in which the United States is unusual, so you want to see if it's related to some of the others and there are others. For instance, the United States has an unusually weak labor movement, it has an unusually narrow political system. Think: there is no other industrialized Western country that doesn't have a labor-based political party, and we haven't had one here since the Populist Party in the 1890s. So we have a very depoliticized population, and that could be one cause of this phenomenon: if social and political life don't offer you opportunities to form communities and associate yourself with things that are meaningful to you, people look for other ways to do it, and religion's an obvious one. It's strikingly the case in the black communities, actually, where the black churches have been the real organizing center which holds life together: I mean, there's terrible oppression, a lot of families are falling apart, but the church is there, it brings people together and they can get together and do things in that context. And the same is true in many white communities as well.

Now, I don't think you can draw too many sweeping conclusions from religion itself-it's kind of like technology, it depends what you use it for. Like, even among the fundamentalists, you've got Sojourners [a politically progressive religious group], and you have Jerry Falwell [a right-wing televangelist]. But it certainly does carry with it the potential of aligning with other forms of fanaticism-and that's a big danger in the United States, because it's a very significant movement here. In fact, by now just about every major political figure in the country has to associate himself with it in some way. In the 1980 election, for example, all of the three candidates [i.e. Carter, Reagan, and independent candidate John Anderson] advertised themselves as Born Again Christians. In the 1984 election, one of the candidates advertised himself as a Born Again Christian, and the other was a Methodist minister or something.35 In the 1988 election, Dukakis was secular, which is unusual, but Bush said he was religious.

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Re: US Religous beliefs Jun 24, 2010
Ok, I had a look at Gallup and they had a relevant article with stats on the topic of US beliefs concerning evolution:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/21811/americ ... igins.aspx

In 2005 over half, 53% believed that 'God created man exactly how the Bible describes it'. :shock: :shock:


This earlier set of results shows that the US had the lowest percentage of people believing in evolution in the survey:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_comp.htm


However, perhaps 'eh' has some more recent stats that show how many of these Americans have now learnt to believe science rather than taking the Bible literally. I look forward to the updated stats.

Over to you eh.

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Shafique
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Re: US Religous beliefs Jun 24, 2010
'eh' expressed his belief that Christians were rational and did not interpret the Bible literally and were generally progressive in rejecting verses which science had contradicted. This is indeed to be applauded and a noble practice indeed.


Now, now, snowball.

If you're going to claim to read what I write, you might as well get it right.

Oh, and yet another thread on someone pontificating on the views that others supposedly have.

*Yawn*

(BTW, what do you think are the percentage of Muslims who believe that humans evolved from lower primates?)
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Re: US Religous beliefs Jun 25, 2010
event horizon wrote:
(BTW, what do you think are the percentage of Muslims who believe that humans evolved from lower primates?)


This term makes no sense to me .. at all.

I still don't buy the whole theory of evolution anyways.
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Re: US Religous beliefs Jun 25, 2010
According to the thread, you're a religious fanatic.

Oh wait, you're not Christian.

Never mind.
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Re: US Religous beliefs Jun 25, 2010
event horizon wrote:According to the thread, you're a religious fanatic.

Oh wait, you're not Christian.

Never mind.


What is ur religious sec anyways?
Go figure out the answer to my question in the other thread :drunken:
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Re: US Religous Beliefs Jun 25, 2010
eh tries the loon shuffle once again.

So, when facts come into contact with loon spin we get the counter argument - 'but but but but - moooslims are just as bad, aren't they - help me out budddies, FD where are you???? ' ;)

No facts, just beliefs and spin in eh's response. Such as it always was when confronted with evidence.

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Re: US Religous Beliefs Jun 25, 2010
shafique wrote:help me out budddies, FD where are you???? ' ;)



:mrgreen: loool :mrgreen:
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Re: US Religous Beliefs Jul 04, 2010
Bump for eh - given he's quoting Chomsky again in the politics forum.
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Re: US Religous beliefs Jul 04, 2010
Christian 84 82 82
Jewish 1 1 1
Muslim * 1 *
Other non-Christian 3 2 1
Atheist * 1 1
Agnostic * 2 2
Something else (SPECIFY) * 1 2
No preference 11 8 10
Don't know/Refused 1 2 1
TOTAL 100 100 100


Survey Response %, June 1996 %, March 2001 %, March 2002
Protestant 53 53 52
Catholic 23 23 24
Mormon
(Latter-day Saints) 2 2 2
Orthodox 1 1 *
Non-denominational 1 0 0
Something else (Specify) 1 * 2
Not practicing any religion 1 0 0
Don't know/Refused 2 3 2
TOTAL CHRISTIAN 84% 82% 82%


Sorry if I don't believe the stats.

My guess is that many Americans simply picked an answer because they were unsure. It's hardly useful to gauge religious fanaticism in the US.

Simply put, Americans are far more moderate than Muslims are. A majority of young Americans support gay marriage and the big debate on gays is whether they should be able to marry or only be eligible to have civil unions (as conservative Republicans support).

The debate on gays in Muslim countries is...well, there is no debate. There's simply a consensus that homosexuality is illegal. The difference between 'liberal' and 'conservative' Muslim societies is whether homosexuals are imprisoned or executed.

LoL.

Keep grasping for straws.
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Re: US Religous Beliefs Jul 04, 2010
So, the loon result when presented with evidence is 'I don't believe it'.

Very funny.
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Re: US Religous beliefs Jul 04, 2010
Yes, snowball. It's pretty difficult to believe that Americans are bigger fundamentalists than the Taliban or Saudis when 67% of Americans surveyed in a recent poll support gay marriage (42%) or civil unions (25%).

Hopefully I don't need to explain to you the contradiction between your claim that Americans are fundamentalists (as opposed to Muslims?) to the reality that most Americans are tolerant of homosexuality.

Now, I'll let you figure out the connection that has with taking a literal interpretation of the Bible.
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Re: US Religous Beliefs Jul 04, 2010
Well, this thread is about the proportions of your fellow countrymen that do believe in these fundamentalist views.

You are free to start another thread for similar evidence in other countries (and free to tell us whether you believe that evidence or not).

So, let me remind you what I said in the first post:
Back then, large proportions did not believe in evolution (man was created in current form) and that the universe is a few thousand years old, with fossils being fakes.

If the US Christians have really changed their minds in the meantime, then this is a really positive move and one we must surely congratulate the Christians in America on their progressive approach. (Seriously - it is quite an achievement to change people's views in this way).


eh - do you have any evidence that substantially fewer of your fellow believers now don't believe the Bible's creation story is literally true?

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Re: US Religous beliefs Jul 04, 2010
eh - do you have any evidence that substantially fewer of your fellow believers now don't believe the Bible's creation story is literally true?


You mean from personal experience and the stats I posted on the percentages of Americans who are atheist/agnostic, Roman Catholic, etc?

Sure, see above. 67% of Americans believe in gay marriage or civil unions for homose.xuals. That hardly gels well with your statistics.
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Re: US Religous Beliefs Jul 04, 2010
So, you don't have any evidence in regards to the updated stats concerning how many of your fellow US believers still believe the Bible's creation is true?

You should have just said so.

(I'm not sure what gay marriage has to do with Biblical belief of creation - but I've given up trying to understand your logic)

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Re: US Religous Beliefs Jul 05, 2010
shafique wrote:So, you don't have any evidence in regards to the updated stats concerning how many of your fellow US believers still believe the Bible's creation is true?

You should have just said so.

(I'm not sure what gay marriage has to do with Biblical belief of creation - but I've given up trying to understand your logic)

Cheers,
Shafique


You're dumber than I thought if you don't see a connection to acceptance of homosexual lifestyle and Biblical literalism.
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Re: US Religous Beliefs Jul 06, 2010
I don't see why giving us another of your strange beliefs will distract anyone from the fact that you haven't provided any (i.e. zilch, zero, nada) updated evidence that fewer (significantly or otherwise) of your fellow American believers now believe man evolved from lower life forms (like the Quran says) rather than being created in current form some 10s of thousand years ago.

As I stated in the first post - this thread is to provide evidence to disprove your 'belief' that most US christians are rational and believe in evolution.

Your belief does not match the available evidence.

I'm not surprised - such as it always was with your quaint beliefs.

Should you find evidence to back up your belief, please post it here.

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Re: US Religous beliefs Jul 07, 2010
shafique wrote:Ok, I had a look at Gallup and they had a relevant article with stats on the topic of US beliefs concerning evolution:
http://www.gallup.com/poll/21811/americ ... igins.aspx

In 2005 over half, 53% believed that 'God created man exactly how the Bible describes it'. :shock: :shock:


This earlier set of results shows that the US had the lowest percentage of people believing in evolution in the survey:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/rel_comp.htm


However, perhaps 'eh' has some more recent stats that show how many of these Americans have now learnt to believe science rather than taking the Bible literally. I look forward to the updated stats.

Over to you eh.



I'm still waiting for some updated stats.

It is interesting to note you've come up with an article on the relative levels of rejection of science in Muslim nations - but you seem to avoiding the stats for your own US believers. Why is that?

You're not embarrassed that you've been found out again - because this thread was started after you made a claim that Christians were more rational than Muslims when it came to accepting scientific facts.

All Mouth, No trousers?

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