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Lionheart · Mar 22, 2006

Using the excuse of Al-Qeada, American Soliders have excuted a family of 11 in their own house, in their own country. Even a infant child and a 75 year old lady are threat according to American Imperlist. Iraqis need to wake up and see their real commen enemy..the imperlist invaders ( British and Americans) who bent to rob, kill, rape Iraq till there is nothing.

U.S. forces accused of killing 11By MATTHEW SCHOFIELDKnight Ridder Newspapers

Iraqi police have accused American troops of executing 11 people, including a 75-year-old woman and a 6-month-old infant, in the aftermath of a raid last Wednesday on a house about 60 miles north of Baghdad.
The villagers were killed after American troops herded them into a single room of the house, according to a police document obtained by Knight Ridder Newspapers. The soldiers also burned three vehicles, killed the villagers' animals and blew up the house, the document said.
A U.S. military spokesman, Maj. Tim Keefe, said that the U.S. military has no information to support the allegations.
"We're concerned to hear accusations like that, but it's also highly unlikely that they're true," he said. He said U.S. forces "take every precaution to keep civilians out of harms' way."
Accusations that U.S. troops have killed civilians are commonplace in Iraq; most are judged later to be unfounded or exaggerated.
The report of the killings in Ishaqi, eight miles north of Balad, is unusual because it originated with Iraqi police -- and officers signed it.
The report, signed by an Iraqi police colonel, was compiled by the Joint Coordination Center in Tikrit, a regional security center set up with U.S. military assistance.
Brig. Gen. Issa al Juboori, who heads the center, said the report accurately reflects the direction of the current police investigation. The officer heading the investigation is "a dedicated policeman and a good cop," he said. "I trust him."
The case involves a U.S. raid conducted, according to the official U.S. account, in response to a tip that a member of al Qaeda in Iraq was at the house.
Neighbors, interviewed by a special correspondent for Knight Ridder, agreed that the al Qaeda member was at the house. They said he was visiting the home's owner, a relative. The neighbors said the homeowner was a teacher.
According to police, military and eyewitness accounts, U.S. forces approached the house around 2:30 a.m., and a firefight ensued. By all accounts, in addition to exchanging gunfire with someone inside the house, U.S. troops were supported by helicopter gunships, which fired on the house.
But the accounts differ on what took place after the firefight.
According to the U.S. account, the house collapsed because of the heavy fire. When U.S. forces searched the rubble they found one man, the al Qaeda suspect, alive. He was arrested. They also found a dead man they believed to be connected to al Qaeda, two dead women and a dead child.
The report by the Joint Coordination Center said U.S. forces entered the house while it was still standing.
"The American forces gathered the family members in one room and executed 11 persons, including five children, four women and two men," the report said. "Then they bombed the house, burned three vehicles and killed their animals."
A local police commander, Lt. Col. Farooq Hussain, said that autopsies at the hospital in Tikrit "revealed that all the victims had bullet shots in the head and all bodies were handcuffed."
Keefe, the U.S. military spokesman, said he had seen photographs of the victims and had not seen handcuffs, which caused him to doubt the validity of the report.
He said, however, that he has no reason to doubt the body count

Chocoholic · Mar 22, 2006

Two words - Unsubstantiated and allegedly.

Lionheart · Mar 22, 2006

Chocoholic wrote:Two words - Unsubstantiated and allegedly.

Unsubstantiated and allegedly..

Iraqi police and solidiers who witnessed the excution came forward..

Iraqi citizen video tapped American going into the house were the family were excuted..

American officials first said that the family was killed by insurgent morter attack...but later when Time magazine confronted them with the vidoe tape of Americans entering the house and the eye witness account, they admitted the families was excuted by their forceses.

The only reason why this story and other accountles genocides of Iraqis is not reported by the mainstrem media is because US government like the Communist USSR, Nazi germany, and many other undemocratic governments around the world, what the media reports most be approved by the government. Democracy in America is as real as fairy tales.

Choco

what is Unsubstantiated is the allegation that sunni insurgents blowup the Shia shrine in Samara...but unfortunately western media and Iraqi puppets blamed sunni insurgents without evidence and motive to back their claim. All the evidence and motives behind the shrine bombings point to the Occuppiers who looking for more excuse to stay in Iraq..A civil war in Iraq would not benefit the insurgents whose main goal is to chase the invaders out not to give them more excuse to stay in. Also the fact that Shias in south were starting to join the insurgency because of the actions of the British soldiers...the only way Occupiers and their puppets could stop this from happening is if they started a civil war between Iraqis.

Chocoholic · Mar 22, 2006

And how many made up stories have come out of Iraq? Lots and lots. Plus many supposedly eye witness statements can be very unreliable.

Stop bashing people. It's not like those on the other side never did anything wrong!

If the story is true, then it's shameful. But hey dude - this is war, get it through your thick head that war is dirty, it's nasty, innocent people get killed on both sides.

What about the troop of red caps cornered, tortured and murdered by a baying mob last year - justified? No it wasn't, so don't give me this crap.

If you want a real horror story then read this: From the Daily Telegraph:

Red Caps were beaten and murdered by Iraqi mob
By Thomas Harding, Defence Correspondent
(Filed: 16/03/2006)

The final moments of the lives of six military policemen, some of whom were beaten and executed by a mob of armed Iraqis, were revealed at an inquest yesterday.

Parents and siblings of the victims listened to evidence of how the six Royal Military Police were riddled with dozens of bullets as they were either held down or shot at close range inside a police station in the town of Majar al-Kabir.

One young Red Cap, Cpl Simon Miller, 21, was beaten with a rifle butt, punched in the face then shot in the head and chest, possibly as he was forced to kneel on the floor, after his unit was set upon by the crowd, Oxford coroner's court heard. He also suffered 24 further injuries, including grazing to his back suggesting he had been dragged along the ground.

As his colleague was executed, L/Cpl Thomas Keys, 20, is thought to have clutched his knees to his chest, possibly after being shot in the abdomen, before he too was callously murdered with a bullet to the head. A total of 18 rounds were fired into his body and he suffered multiple cuts and bruises during the incident in June 2003.

It was also possible that he and others were deliberately incapacitated by the Iraqis who "mowed them down in the legs", according to Reg Keys, the soldier's father.

It is thought that two of the men died as the mob stormed the police station and the rest were murdered in a room inside the building.

Sgt Simon Hamilton-Jewell, 41, was struck by at least 14 bullets causing 27 wounds that were fired from a Kalashnikov assault rifle by someone standing over him.

The detailed forensic pathology reports were so upsetting that several family members left in tears during proceedings. At one point the Home Office pathologist, Dr Nathaniel Cary, apologised for the "deadpan style" in which he had to deliver the facts. "It must be absolutely awful for you and I can only apologise that you have had to hear this," he said. Cpl Russell Aston, 30, was shot 13 times with an assault rifle, the court heard.

Outside the inquest his father, Mike Aston, said: "I feel the luckiest of the families here because there were no signs of injuries on Russell before he was killed. He died cleanly and quickly."

Chocoholic · Mar 22, 2006

Lionheart, do you see the rest of us constantly copy pasting stories about things have befallen our own during the conflict and the atrocities done against some of our troops. Blown up, shot, tortured, bodies burned, dragged along the street then strung up?

No you don't because we learnt along time ago to put up and shut up! And to face the fact that this sort of thing happens everyday during conflicts.

My grandfather who died last year aged 92, was involved in both world wars, yet he never moaned or said anything about it. My other grandfather who was in the Merchant Navy, had his vessel sunk in the second world war and was held as a POW for months on end. Yet had no ill will towards his captors. In fact when it was all over, the German officer in charge gave my grandfather his military dagger when he was released.

People of that generation didn't whine and moan like you do, they accepted what was happening and got on with it.

You're a gutless, bleating, tiger! I don't see you do anything to help!

Lionheart · Mar 22, 2006

Chocoholic wrote:Lionheart, do you see the rest of us constantly copy pasting stories about things have befallen our own during the conflict and the atrocities done against some of our troops. Blown up, shot, tortured, bodies burned, dragged along the street then strung up?

No you don't because we learnt along time ago to put up and shut up! And to face the fact that this sort of thing happens everyday during conflicts.

My grandfather who died last year aged 92, was involved in both world wars, yet he never moaned or said anything about it. My other grandfather who was in the Merchant Navy, had his vessel sunk in the second world war and was held as a POW for months on end. Yet had no ill will towards his captors. In fact when it was all over, the German officer in charge gave my grandfather his military dagger when he was released.

People of that generation didn't whine and moan like you do, they accepted what was happening and got on with it.

You're a gutless, bleating, tiger! I don't see you do anything to help!

Choco... there is no point of telling me about your grandfathers experience in germain boot camp..cause I really don't care and I will keep on posting atrocities the imperlist Brits and their American brethren commit in Iraq...you could call it whinning if you please to..but to me its information,matter fact its more accurrate information than the one you recieve from you media.

Choco...if I'm gutless, bleating, tiger, than why worry about what I post or write...

Chocoholic · Mar 22, 2006

Because your views are never balanced. You portay us as the evil doers who're only out for greed.

And pelase don't lump us in with the yanks either! Most of us are against what is going on, so stop making generalisations about the British. Oh F***ing shoot us for having an emirial empire at one in history, like no iother nation did that. And what the world is scared of a tiny little island - please do me a favour!

When your views are more balanced then I'll stop haivng a go at you, but for now your racist views are intolerable.

sniper420 · Mar 22, 2006

Yeah Lionheart, I guess politically not all Brits think the same. U r partially right though even after 400+ yrs of colonialism, the Briish minister didnt learn a lesson and joined hands with States......history that is forgotten is bound to repeat........

Chocoholic · Mar 22, 2006

Thanks Sniper. And I personally was appalled at the way Tony friggin' Blair got into bed with Bush and started this whole fiasco. It's shameful and the majority of British people also feel the same way, so stop having a go!

Lionheart · Mar 22, 2006

Chocoholic wrote:Because your views are never balanced. You portay us as the evil doers who're only out for greed.

And pelase don't lump us in with the yanks either! Most of us are against what is going on, so stop making generalisations about the British. Oh F***ing shoot us for having an emirial empire at one in history, like no iother nation did that. And what the world is scared of a tiny little island - please do me a favour!

When your views are more balanced then I'll stop haivng a go at you, but for now your racist views are intolerable.

Choco..It's not me who tainted the Imperlist British as evil doers...It's the actions of British imperlist present and the past that taint them as evil doers.

Choco...if the citizens of the Imperial state are against trhe action of its government in Iraq, than tell me why did they vote in emperor Blair again to power.

Osnaz Vega · Mar 23, 2006

Lionheart wrote:
Chocoholic wrote:American officials first said that the family was killed by insurgent morter attack...but later when Time magazine confronted them with the vidoe tape of Americans entering the house and the eye witness account, they admitted the families was excuted by their forceses.

You're now citing two different incidents. This one has to do with an allegation of US troops killing 15 in Haditha. The 11 were shot in Ishaqi. Two different incidents.

The only reason why this story and other accountles genocides of Iraqis is not reported by the mainstrem media is because US government like the Communist USSR, Nazi germany, and many other undemocratic governments around the world, what the media reports most be approved by the government. Democracy in America is as real as fairy tales.

Hardly. The New York Times often reports on issues that jeopardize national security in the US for no other reason than to dig up dirt on the current White House Administration. When the New York Times said they were going to publish a story that leaked 'top secret' information about a domestic program, the White House asked (not told) them not to. They did it anyways, unpenalized. This happens quite often. The Associated Press actually has reported on this event for some time, but most of the major networks are holding off on widespread reporting until the investigation is complete. As it has been said already, many false claims have come out of these issues.

But yes, in times of war, not conflict, the US will step in and censor reports of their movements. This is so the enemy doesn't just look at "USA Today" for their intelligence. The Defense Department does not, however, censor reports of military personnel executing civlians. As has been stated, the Associated Press has run stories on this. All the major new networks in the US get most of their news from that organization, so it's not a censorship issue here.

All the evidence and motives behind the shrine bombings point to the Occuppiers who looking for more excuse to stay in Iraq..

What evidence?

This;
A civil war in Iraq would not benefit the insurgents whose main goal is to chase the invaders out not to give them more excuse to stay in. Also the fact that Shias in south were starting to join the insurgency because of the actions of the British soldiers...the only way Occupiers and their puppets could stop this from happening is if they started a civil war between Iraqis.

?

Osnaz Vega · Mar 23, 2006

Osnaz Vega wrote:
Lionheart wrote:
Chocoholic wrote:American officials first said that the family was killed by insurgent morter attack...but later when Time magazine confronted them with the vidoe tape of Americans entering the house and the eye witness account, they admitted the families was excuted by their forceses.

You're now citing two different incidents. This one has to do with an allegation of US troops killing 15 in Haditha. The 11 were shot in Ishaqi. Two different incidents.

The only reason why this story and other accountles genocides of Iraqis is not reported by the mainstrem media is because US government like the Communist USSR, Nazi germany, and many other undemocratic governments around the world, what the media reports most be approved by the government. Democracy in America is as real as fairy tales.

Hardly. The New York Times often reports on issues that jeopardize national security in the US for no other reason than to dig up dirt on the current White House Administration. When the New York Times said they were going to publish a story that leaked 'top secret' information about a domestic program, the White House asked (not told) them not to. They did it anyways, unpenalized. This happens quite often. The Associated Press actually has reported on this event for some time, but most of the major networks are holding off on widespread reporting until the investigation is complete. As it has been said already, many false claims have come out of these issues.

But yes, in times of war, not conflict, the US will step in and censor reports of their movements. This is so the enemy doesn't just look at "USA Today" for their intelligence and find out where all of our forces are deployed or planning to attack from. The Defense Department does not, however, censor reports of military personnel executing civlians. As has been stated, the Associated Press has run stories on this. All the major new networks in the US get most of their news from that organization, so it's not a censorship issue here.

All the evidence and motives behind the shrine bombings point to the Occuppiers who looking for more excuse to stay in Iraq..

What evidence?

This;
A civil war in Iraq would not benefit the insurgents whose main goal is to chase the invaders out not to give them more excuse to stay in. Also the fact that Shias in south were starting to join the insurgency because of the actions of the British soldiers...the only way Occupiers and their puppets could stop this from happening is if they started a civil war between Iraqis.

?

Mar 23, 2006

[quote="Chocoholic"]And how many made up stories have come out of Iraq? Lots and lots. Plus many supposedly eye witness statements can be very unreliable.

[\quote]

I saw a made up story....... >>>WMD in Iraq<<<

I think you all witnessed this made up story

End of talk to me

Lionheart · Mar 23, 2006

Osnaz Vega

What evidence?

There is no evidence, because no necessary steps were taken to investigate the bombing...rather the American occuppiers, their puppets and the media cheerleader immeddiately blamed insurgents without evidence..just like they blamed Bin Laden immediately for Sep 11 attack. Insurgents in Iraq want American/British out of Iraq not to keep them their longer than they need to. No group claimed responsibility for the 6:55 a.m. attack on the Askariya shrine in Samarra.

Zarqawi Americas scape goat in Iraq has been known to have died in the beginning iof the war n the Kurdish area in Northern Iraq...but yet he is blamed for basically every attack on civilians..

"Michel Chossudovsky: "Has the US [and Britain] created as part of a covert intelligence operation, a bogus 'resistance movement' made up of its own Al Qaeda sponsored 'terrorists'? Their suicide attacks target Iraqi civilians rather than the US military. The suicide bombings tend to encourage sectarian divisions not only within Iraq, but throughout the entire Middle East. They serve Washington's interests. They contribute to undermining the development of a broader resistance movement uniting Shia, Sunni, Kurds and Christians against the illegal occupation of the Iraqi homeland."

Osnaz Vega · Mar 23, 2006

yshimy wrote:
Chocoholic wrote:And how many made up stories have come out of Iraq? Lots and lots. Plus many supposedly eye witness statements can be very unreliable.

[\quote]

I saw a made up story....... >>>WMD in Iraq<<<

I think you all witnessed this made up story

End of talk to me

And where did much of this story come from? Iraq. Iraqi defectors and informants within Chalabi's INC, such as code-name "Curveball," who purposely misled the CIA to believe that Iraq's WMD program was still full-throttle by providing made-up 'firsthand' accounts of the 'mobile weapons factories.'

Frankly, this is where much of the US' intelligence comes from. Resistance groups. Take a look back on who has provided the world thus far with intelligence on Iran's nuclear program. Resistance groups within Iran.

Osnaz Vega · Mar 23, 2006

****NOTE: Disregard the first post... this is a double post, this being the edited copy****

Lionheart,
how do you know the Iraqi government, nor US military intelligence didn't have evidence linking insurgent groups to the bombings? I'm not saying they do, but that no one really does know unless they have direct knowledge of it.

Whether or not Zarqawi still exists, that's a good question. There is a branch of the US military known as Psychological Operations, or Psy-Ops for short. They are fully capable of producing fake videos and tapes, and may have been behind some of the fake videos of Zarqawi in the past. There is a possibility. However, there is no evidence.

But to think that Coalition Forces are behind all of this is somewhat of a ludicrous idea. IEDs are killing US troops nearly everyday. Encouraging more violence would only hurt us politically, militarily, and economically. Saying Coalition troops are behind the terrorist violence is akin to thinking that the Soviets were behind the Afghan reistance back in the 80s. We (should) all know this wasn't the case. And if they were that eager to jump onto the Soviets, is it entirely out of the question that they'd do the same to a country that has been the sole backing of Israel?

Lionheart · Mar 23, 2006

Osnaz Vega wrote:****NOTE: Disregard the first post... this is a double post, this being the edited copy****

Lionheart,
how do you know the Iraqi government, nor US military intelligence didn't have evidence linking insurgent groups to the bombings? I'm not saying they do, but that no one really does know unless they have direct knowledge of it.

Whether or not Zarqawi still exists, that's a good question. There is a branch of the US military known as Psychological Operations, or Psy-Ops for short. They are fully capable of producing fake videos and tapes, and may have been behind some of the fake videos of Zarqawi in the past. There is a possibility. However, there is no evidence.

But to think that Coalition Forces are behind all of this is somewhat of a ludicrous idea. IEDs are killing US troops nearly everyday. Encouraging more violence would only hurt us politically, militarily, and economically. Saying Coalition troops are behind the terrorist violence is akin to thinking that the Soviets were behind the Afghan reistance back in the 80s. We (should) all know this wasn't the case. And if they were that eager to jump onto the Soviets, is it entirely out of the question that they'd do the same to a country that has been the sole backing of Israel?

How do I know?..well I don't..But isn't rather odd for American and Iraqi puppets to come out less than hours after the attack and blame it on the insurgents..Even the smallest investigation don't take less than hour to investigate.. so why did this investigation take less than an hour..maybe its was a setup like Sep 11 only this time America and its puppets were losing the war in Iraq to a determined insurgency, so inorder to offset the insurgency and create excuse to stay in Iraq, America needed civil war between Shia and Sunni.

Insurgents don't deny planting IEDs to kill AMerican soliders and Iraqi puppet law enforcement who they consider traitors..but what they deny and basically makes no sense are deliberate targeting of Iraqi civilians in markets, and schools.

kanelli · Mar 24, 2006

Lionheart, don't forget to post how many families and children have been killed by Iranians, Syrians, Iraqis, Yemenis etc. in Iraq over the past couple of years.

Lionheart · Mar 24, 2006

kanelli wrote:Lionheart, don't forget to post how many families and children have been killed by Iranians, Syrians, Iraqis, Yemenis etc. in Iraq over the past couple of years.

Yemen and Syria have never had war with Iraq, have never invaded Iraq. Iranian was attacked by saddam Hussien whom the west armed and supported. When Saddam Hussien was killing his people and his neighbors with chemical and other types of weapons given to him by the west he was their man. They had no problems with Saddam gasing Kurds, Iranian, shia, killing sunni sheikhs that oppossed to his atheist like rule. Saddam only became problem when he stopped and oppressing his people for the west and started to develop his country and people. The west, especially UNited States gave Saddam even the green light to Kuwaite so that ehy could have excuse to invade Iraq and continue the killing and oppressing people of Iraq.

Its Ironic that American public feel unsave having Arabs countries controlling their ports, but they are okey with American military occuppaying countries middle east, AMericans owning and selling the natural resources of the people of MIddle east. If anything its the Arabs and people of Middle east that need to feel threatened by the American military presence in their countries, not the Americans who yet to be invaded by an Arab army or occuppayed.

kanelli · Mar 24, 2006

Lionheart, you have a warped sense of history.

arniegang · Mar 24, 2006

do as i K

just ignore him

:lol:

sniper420 · Mar 25, 2006

Lionheart wrote:
kanelli wrote:Lionheart, don't forget to post how many families and children have been killed by Iranians, Syrians, Iraqis, Yemenis etc. in Iraq over the past couple of years.

Yemen and Syria have never had war with Iraq, have never invaded Iraq. Iranian was attacked by saddam Hussien whom the west armed and supported. When Saddam Hussien was killing his people and his neighbors with chemical and other types of weapons given to him by the west he was their man. They had no problems with Saddam gasing Kurds, Iranian, shia, killing sunni sheikhs that oppossed to his atheist like rule. Saddam only became problem when he stopped and oppressing his people for the west and started to develop his country and people. The west, especially UNited States gave Saddam even the green light to Kuwaite so that ehy could have excuse to invade Iraq and continue the killing and oppressing people of Iraq.

Its Ironic that American public feel unsave having Arabs countries controlling their ports, but they are okey with American military occuppaying countries middle east, AMericans owning and selling the natural resources of the people of MIddle east. If anything its the Arabs and people of Middle east that need to feel threatened by the American military presence in their countries, not the Americans who yet to be invaded by an Arab army or occuppayed.

well he is damn right about gasing Kurds which was supplied to them by USA......no grugde that time but they have prob now!

Lionheart · Mar 27, 2006

kanelli wrote:Lionheart, you have a warped sense of history.

And I guess you have real sense of History...the imperlist version history were the invaders, intruders is always saviors bent on civlianzing anybody whose color of skin is not pale or whose origine is not European...and the bad guys always happen to be the savage, unciviliazed natives who never happen to be pale skinned or European...

ilfab · Mar 28, 2006

What's ur point mate?

Dubai Knight · Mar 29, 2006

And I guess you have real sense of History...the imperlist version history were the invaders, intruders is always saviors bent on civlianzing anybody whose color of skin is not pale or whose origine is not European...and the bad guys always happen to be the savage, unciviliazed natives who never happen to be pale skinned or European...[/quote]

I'm sorry, but all I can detect from your ramblings, Lionheart, is that you are as racist and as bigoted as the people you are accusing. What does that make you?

For your information, the Vikings (Blonde, Nordic warriors) invaded most of the countries in northern Europe and considered the other 'Pale skinned Europeans' to be savages. As did the Romans...and the Greeks...and the Goths...There are very few countries that have not been a part of some Empire or another over the centuries.

Was Ghengis Khan a 'Pale skinned European'?

Are you saying that Saddam Hussein never used political propaganda against his own people?

War, invasion, death and destruction are not good things...anywhere in the world, but why do you feel this is a situation exclusive you personally or the Iraqi people? I do not hear you making comment about the Chinese invasion of Tibet or the territorial and nuclear aspirations of the government of North Korea in the same terms? We are a territorial species and have fought each other over pieces of dirt since we fell out of a tree and started walking upright. Many of these wars are not the doing of the common man or the soldiers that end up fighting for whatever cause, but the result of narrow minded leaders, solely bent on securing more personal or national power by using and abusing their positions. Propaganda is another one of their weapons and is used by BOTH sides.

Step back, look objectively and then make a valued and accurate appraisal, based on documented evidence from an independent source, before jumping to opinionated judgements that sound like you have been politically indoctrinated by a pale shadow of Lenin or Trotsky. Your comments are totally inflammatory and completely unreasoned.

Dubai Knight

Lionheart · Mar 29, 2006

Dubai Knight wrote:And I guess you have real sense of History...the imperlist version history were the invaders, intruders is always saviors bent on civlianzing anybody whose color of skin is not pale or whose origine is not European...and the bad guys always happen to be the savage, unciviliazed natives who never happen to be pale skinned or European...

I'm sorry, but all I can detect from your ramblings, Lionheart, is that you are as racist and as bigoted as the people you are accusing. What does that make you?

For your information, the Vikings (Blonde, Nordic warriors) invaded most of the countries in northern Europe and considered the other 'Pale skinned Europeans' to be savages. As did the Romans...and the Greeks...and the Goths...There are very few countries that have not been a part of some Empire or another over the centuries.

Was Ghengis Khan a 'Pale skinned European'?

Are you saying that Saddam Hussein never used political propaganda against his own people?

War, invasion, death and destruction are not good things...anywhere in the world, but why do you feel this is a situation exclusive you personally or the Iraqi people? I do not hear you making comment about the Chinese invasion of Tibet or the territorial and nuclear aspirations of the government of North Korea in the same terms? We are a territorial species and have fought each other over pieces of dirt since we fell out of a tree and started walking upright. Many of these wars are not the doing of the common man or the soldiers that end up fighting for whatever cause, but the result of narrow minded leaders, solely bent on securing more personal or national power by using and abusing their positions. Propaganda is another one of their weapons and is used by BOTH sides.

Step back, look objectively and then make a valued and accurate appraisal, based on documented evidence from an independent source, before jumping to opinionated judgements that sound like you have been politically indoctrinated by a pale shadow of Lenin or Trotsky. Your comments are totally inflammatory and completely unreasoned.

Dubai Knight[/quote]

I'm sorry, but all I can detect from your ramblings, Lionheart, is that you are as racist and as bigoted as the people you are accusing. What does that make you

Dubai Knight if you were aninsulted by the label of Pale skinned...than I apologize ...but other than that I don't think I need to apologize for anything else.

For your information, the Vikings (Blonde, Nordic warriors) invaded most of the countries in northern Europe and considered the other 'Pale skinned Europeans' to be savages. As did the Romans...and the Greeks...and the Goths...There are very few countries that have not been a part of some Empire or another over the centuries.

I don't see Viking invading Britian today or Romans invading Germany to impose their rules and laws today....but what I do see is American/British imperlist invading soveriegn countries far from their borders...

Was Ghengis Khan a 'Pale skinned European'?

Dubai KNight...Genghis Khan lived close to 1000 years ago..don't see how he is relevant in this arguement..besides we know todays Genghis khan is.

Are you saying that Saddam Hussein never used political propaganda against his own people?

Everything Saddam Hussien knows he learned it from your secret agencies( CIA, MI5)...

War, invasion, death and destruction are not good things...anywhere in the world, but why do you feel this is a situation exclusive you personally or the Iraqi people? I do not hear you making comment about the Chinese invasion of Tibet or the territorial and nuclear aspirations of the government of North Korea in the same terms? We are a territorial species and have fought each other over pieces of dirt since we fell out of a tree and started walking upright. Many of these wars are not the doing of the common man or the soldiers that end up fighting for whatever cause, but the result of narrow minded leaders, solely bent on securing more personal or national power by using and abusing their positions. Propaganda is another one of their weapons and is used by BOTH sides.

Lets see for a starter China wasn't driven by greed when it invaded Tibet, since Tibet has no known Oil deposits...China did not invade Tibet to protect Mongolia or Nepal...China did not cross a whole Ocean to invade Tibet.

I don't see how the only country in the world that has tested nuclear weapon on human population has any right telling what country can have Nuclear weapon and what country cannot... North Korea having nuclear weapon does not scare me as much as American or Isrealis having nuclear weapons.

Dubai Knight · Mar 29, 2006

What scares me most is that someone with your asinine and narrow minded view of global politics or lack of understanding about the cyclic nature of history might get their hands on a nuclear device.

As far as the internationally appointed, politically neutral, official body who monitor nuclear activity on this planet are concerned, Israel does not have any nuclear capability. But then that fact would be lost on you as you only listen to your own propaganda and believe your own one sided diatribe, so pointless mentioning it really.

You seem to either miss or completely ignore the point of anyones replies, the Vikings and Romans were the dominant economic and military forces of the day. Someone has to be. Ghengis Khan was a Mongol and his maruading and pillaging covered many millions of square kilometres far from his own home. As for Saddam learning everything from the CIA/MI5...where do you get your delusions?

Tell everyone why China invaded Tibet then?

If the US had not 'tested nuclear weapons on human population' it is very likely that you would have been writing this post in either Japanese or German. And if you think the situation in Iraq is the bad, and yes, I agree that it is; not all pale skinned people agree with their political leaders, then you might like to consider the devastation and murder committed by the Nazis during World War 2. They exterminated over 6 million people...and if you think it was just the Jews, you are so wrong. They exterminated political activists, gypsies, mentally handicapped people, communists, blacks, whites, whoever they felt was against them right or wrong or did not fit with a bigoted and narrow minded ideal. If they had been allowed to continue, they would have exterminated most of the Russian population and, if the 'Imperialist' armies of the rest of the world had not controlled him, probably the entire middle east as Islam would certainly not have fitted with the Aryan ideal of Goebbels and Himmler. History is important but you seem to want to ignore it.

Just get off your high horse and go and do some reading, it might educate you about the real world and the complex interaction between the actions of the past and the current global situation. Or maybe factual history is just lies and propaganda of the imperialist west?

Take your head out of the sand and open your eyes and brain...

Knight

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