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يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله
إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله
وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله
ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله
إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في
السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا

Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan

4.171 You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only the Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of “allah”, and His messengers, and certainly they say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly his what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and He sufficed on account of “allah”, a witness.


All,

Is there a cognizant Muslim out there that can please explain how it is that 4.171 plainly states that Jesus is the Son….?


Further, how is it that 4.171 proclaims all the elements of the Biblical Trinity…

• Father
• Son
• Spirit


Thanks…

Apple Pie wrote:يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله
إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله
وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله
ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله
إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في
السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا

Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan

4.171 You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only the Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of “allah”, and His messengers, and certainly they say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly his what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and He sufficed on account of “allah”, a witness.


All,

Is there a cognizant Muslim out there that can please explain how it is that 4.171 plainly states that Jesus is the Son….?


Further, how is it that 4.171 proclaims all the elements of the Biblical Trinity…

• Father
• Son
• Spirit


Thanks…

You have no grounds to support your view. give us a reference , which arab or muslim translated that aya for you?

112.001 قُلْ هُوَ اللَّهُ أَحَدٌ
112.001 Qul huwa All[a]hu a[h]ad(un)
112.001 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

112.002 اللَّهُ الصَّمَدُ
112.002 All[a]hu a(l)[ss]amad(u)
112.002 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

112.003 لَمْ يَلِدْ وَلَمْ يُولَدْ
112.003 Lam yalid walam yoolad(u)
112.003 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

112.004 وَلَمْ يَكُنْ لَهُ كُفُوًا أَحَدٌ
112.004 Walam yakun lahu kufuwan a[h]ad(un)
112.004 And there is none like unto Him.

Al-Qur'an, 112.001-004 (Al-Ikhlas [Sincerity])

Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.913

Next time you post a translation of a verse from quran, provide a reference to back it up.

outworldish wrote:

Apple Pie wrote:يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله
إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله
وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله
ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله
إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في
السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا

Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan

4.171 You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only the Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of “allah”, and His messengers, and certainly they say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly his what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and He sufficed on account of “allah”, a witness.


All,

Is there a cognizant Muslim out there that can please explain how it is that 4.171 plainly states that Jesus is the Son….?


Further, how is it that 4.171 proclaims all the elements of the Biblical Trinity…

• Father
• Son
• Spirit


Thanks…

You have no grounds to support your view. give us a reference , which arab or muslim translated that aya for you?

There is plenty of support for this rendering.

Even these translators fully acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the Son...

Literal…

You The Book's people, do not exaggerate/exceed the limit in your religion, and do not say on (about) God except the truth, but the Messiah, Jesus, Mary's son (is) God's messenger and His word/expression He threw it away to Mary, and a Soul/Spirit from Him; so believe with God, and His messengers, and do not say: "Three." Stop (it is) best for you, but God (is) one God, His praise/glory that to be for him a child; for Him what (is) in the skies/space and what (is) in the earth/Planet Earth, enough/sufficient with God (as a) guardian/protector. (4.171)



Free-Minds…

O people of the Scripture, do not overstep in your system, nor say about God except the truth. Jesus the son of Mary was no more than God's messenger and the fulfillment of His word to Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God and His messengers, and do not Say: "Trinity." Cease, for it is better for you. God is only One god, be He glorified that He should have a son! To Him is all that is in the heavens and what is in the Earth. God is enough as a caretaker. (4.171)



Arberry…

People of the Book, go not beyond the bounds in your religion, and say not as to God but the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only the Messenger of God, and His Word that He committed to Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in God and His Messengers, and say not, 'Three.' Refrain; better is it for you. God is only One God. Glory be to Him -- That He should have a son! To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and in the earth; God suffices for a guardian. (4.171)

112.001 قُلْ هُوَ اللَّهُ أَحَدٌ
112.001 Qul huwa All[a]hu a[h]ad(un)
112.001 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

112.002 اللَّهُ الصَّمَدُ
112.002 All[a]hu a(l)[ss]amad(u)
112.002 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

112.003 لَمْ يَلِدْ وَلَمْ يُولَدْ
112.003 Lam yalid walam yoolad(u)
112.003 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

112.004 وَلَمْ يَكُنْ لَهُ كُفُوًا أَحَدٌ
112.004 Walam yakun lahu kufuwan a[h]ad(un)
112.004 And there is none like unto Him.

Al-Qur'an, 112.001-004 (Al-Ikhlas [Sincerity])

Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.913

All the verbs in sura 112 are in the imperfect tense.

Hence, there is absolutely no denial of a Son in the past...as we have already witnessed in 4.171...

112.001 قُلْ هُوَ اللَّهُ أَحَدٌ
112.001 Qul huwa All[a]hu a[h]ad(un)
112.001 Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;

112.002 اللَّهُ الصَّمَدُ
112.002 All[a]hu a(l)[ss]amad(u)
112.002 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;

112.003 لَمْ يَلِدْ وَلَمْ يُولَدْ
112.003 Lam yalid walam yoolad(u)
112.003 He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

112.004 وَلَمْ يَكُنْ لَهُ كُفُوًا أَحَدٌ
112.004 Walam yakun lahu kufuwan a[h]ad(un)
112.004 And there is none like unto Him.

Al-Qur'an, 112.001-004 (Al-Ikhlas [Sincerity])

Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.9


109.001 قُلْ يَا أَيُّهَا الْكَافِرُونَ
109.001 Qul y[a] ayyuh[a] alk[a]firoon(a)
109.001 Say : O ye that reject Faith!

109.002 لا أَعْبُدُ مَا تَعْبُدُونَ
109.002 L[a] aAAbudu m[a] taAAbudoon(a)
109.002 I worship not that which ye worship,

109.003 وَلا أَنْتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ
109.003 Wal[a] antum AA[a]bidoona m[a] aAAbud(u)
109.003 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

109.004 وَلا أَنَا عَابِدٌ مَا عَبَدْتُمْ
109.004 Wal[a] an[a] AA[a]bidun m[a] AAabadtum
109.004 And I will not worship that which ye have been wont to worship,

109.005 وَلا أَنْتُمْ عَابِدُونَ مَا أَعْبُدُ
109.005 Wal[a] antum AA[a]bidoona m[a] aAAbud(u)
109.005 Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

109.006 لَكُمْ دِينُكُمْ وَلِيَ دِينِ
109.006 Lakum deenukum waliya deen(i)
109.006 To you be your Way, and to me mine.

Al-Qur'an, 109.001-006 (Al-Kafiroon [The Disbelievers, Atheists])

Text Copied from DivineIslam's Qur'an Viewer software v2.9

How is it that the authors of the Koran knew that Jesus Christ is the Son?

Apple Pie - again you have done outstanding work here.

Please let us know when you have convinced one Muslim or one Arabic Speaker of this new truth.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Apple Pie - again you have done outstanding work here.

Thanks...

Please let us know when you have convinced one Muslim or one Arabic Speaker of this new truth.

Cheers,
Shafique

Done.

004.171

YUSUFALI: O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

PICKTHAL: O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One Allah. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.

SHAKIR: O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only a messenger of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His messengers, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one Allah; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

again three well versed translators ... all translated the same ayah. and all the arabs who understand the language agree with these three translations.....

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html

outworldish wrote:004.171

YUSUFALI: O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.

PICKTHAL: O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One Allah. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.

SHAKIR: O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only a messenger of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His messengers, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one Allah; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

again three well versed translators ... all translated the same ayah. and all the arabs who understand the language agree with these three translations.....

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/quran/004.qmt.html

Where is the Arabic exegesis...or...are you ashamed of the Arabic...?

Apple Pie - I for one believe you that we should follow the Quran as it is the truth.

Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique wrote:Apple Pie - I for one believe you that we should follow the Quran as it is the truth.

Thanks for bringing this to everyone's attention.

Cheers,
Shafique

Thanks for agreeing that the Koran proclaims Jesus Christ as the Son...


Cheers!