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I decided to start a new thread for Daniyaal.

The hadith I was referring to was from Bukhari and Muslim, and relate to comments made when Surat al-Jumma was revealed:

A hadith given by al-Bukhari and Muslim states that Abu Hurairah (ra) narrated Allah's Messenger (saw) as saying:"If the Religion were at the Pleiades, even then a person from Persia would have taken hold of it, or one amongst the Persian descent would surely have found it."

Abu Hurairah (ra) also narrates:"We were sitting in the company of Allah's Apostle (saw) when Surat al-Jum`a was revealed to him and when he recited amongst them, (those who were sitting there) said `Allah's Messenger?' but Allah's Apostle (saw) made no reply, until he was questioned once, twice or thrice, and there was amongst us Salman the Persian.

Allah's Apostle (saw) placed his hand on Salman and then said:"Even if faith were near the Pleiades, a man from amongst these would surely find it."

When read with the hadith about the latter days - when nothing will be left of Islam but it's name, nothing of the Quran but it's script, many beautiful mosques which are full of people but empty of righteousness etc - there is only one personage who will bring people back to faith - the rightly guided leader, Imam Mahdi.

It is in the latter days that faith will have risen to the Pleiades (a constellation - i.e. the stars), and it will be from a descendant of Salman the Persian that the man will find it - i.e. the Imam Mahdi will be a descendant of Salman Farsi.

The other hadith about the same man being a descendant of Fatima, also needs to be fulfilled - and there are many Persians who also have this lineage.

I did not see in your references anywhere where it said the Imam will be an Arab.

Also Daniyal, you talk of the return of Jesus - he is also a non-Arab, the Messiah for the Jews.

[PS - read Sura Jumma to see the context of the hadith - the Sura talks about the latter days and the Prophet's community at these times referred to in 62v3]

Cheers,
Shafique

Dear Shafique,

http://www.islam.tc/prophecies/imam.html
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter2/2.html
http://www.irshad.org/islam/prophecy/mahdi.htm
http://www.al-islam.org/tahrif/yourimam/index.htm
http://www.searchtruth.com/book_display ... anslator=3
http://www.shia.org/mehdi.html
http://www.al-islam.org/peshawar/last.html


Questions:
I am not in favor of anything at this stage personally as I already told you that my research is not complete but one would assume mahdi more likely will be an arab after reading above refernces.

1. In your hadith Mahdi as a name is not mentioned. That is the main missing link with all such hadiths, leaving the door open for people to judge and conclude what they wanted to. It is like the example of son of Ibrahim Ismael which was not mentioned in Koran by name to be the one who was asked for sacrifice but we muslims believe that it was Ismael while chistians and jews believe it was Isaac.

2. There is an hadith in Sunan Abu Dawood:
Narrated Umm Salamah, Ummul Mu'minin: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The Mahdi will be of my family, of the descendants of Fatimah.

Narrated AbuSa'id al-Khudri: The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: The Mahdi will be of my stock, and will have a broad forehead a prominent nose. He will fill the earth will equity and justice as it was filled with oppression and tyranny, and he will rule for seven years.

I would like to state here for other readers that I never wished to have a debate about Mahdi being arab or non-arab as this is against Islamic teachings. However I was replying to another person in another thread who seemed to only bash arab muslims and I asked him what will you do when Imam mahdi comes and based on the references he will more likely be an arab? .

Regards

Daniyaal

Please dont take things personally, we are ALL entitled to an opinion.

If as you state "leaving the door open for people to judge and conclude what they wanted to", then there can be no definative answer to anything.

I can see why Islam is therefore interpreted in so many different ways, if everyone has their own viw point.

Why is it "against islam" to discuss the origin of a prophet? And if as you again say "the door is left open", then surely Islam is there to be discussed in all aspects? or is it best to not know or not find the answer?

Daniyaal,

You are right, the Mahdi as a title is not named in the Hadith, but the description of a man who will bring faith back to earth after it has (metaphorically) gone up to heaven is the exact description of what the Mahdi will do and what the state of the earth will be when he comes.

In this hadith (accepted by Sunni and Shia alike) it is clear that the person will be one person and will be of Persian descent.

Now, the other hadith that say the Imam Mahdi will be descended from Fatima do not contradict this hadith - as there are now many of Persian stock who also claim descent from Fatima (may Allah be pleased with her).

The hadith I quoted is a commentary on the verse of Sura Jummah which is talking about the latter days - just read the commentaries (Tafseer) on this verse and you will see the link.

Wasalaam,
Shafique

Yes I do follow yours and Arnie point of view. Thanks and best regards

daniyaal wrote:

I would like to state here for other readers that I never wished to have a debate about Mahdi being arab or non-arab as this is against Islamic teachings. However I was replying to another person in another thread who seemed to only bash arab muslims and I asked him what will you do when Imam mahdi comes and based on the references he will more likely be an arab? .

Regards

I must be that horrid Arab Basher....
And do not with to hijack this thread about what i did and didnt say.

RVP, You already did so by commenting. I was not going to reply anymore to this thread but after seeing your reply I think I should clarify the position.

I never wished to start a thread like this and Shafique did so on my behalf without discussing it first with me.

This is the last thing that I need to show to others that Muslims can not do any thing except fight over a man called mahdi who may come in future and then fight about his origin as well.

To me it is entirely not important that Mahdi or prophet jesus will come in future or not, but what we as an Ummah can do to get out of the situation we are in today. I remember some one saying on this forum (pls some one correct me or find the source) that when Tartars were at the doors of Iraq, people in iraq were busy debating over silly issues among themselves.

Thats what is happening today to the muslim world, we are all divided over issues for which Islam is completely against. Take for example your own statement that arabs never have and will never accept non arab muslims over them. You have completely ruled out any possibility for muslim ummah to be reunited by making such silly statements at this time when we should be talking about going back to islamic roots.

What I told you is that this concept was not even there in the early islamic era, and the people to blame for are both arabs and non arab muslims if it develops later. A muslim once become a true muslim will not see others as arabs or non arabs, and this was the case in prophets time as well.



Cheers

daniyaal wrote:RVP, You already did so by commenting. I was not going to reply anymore to this thread but after seeing your reply I think I should clarify the position.

you accuse me of arab bashing on a thread i had yet to make a contribution..... i have a right to defend myself.

end of.