Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia

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Al Guardian defends Captain of the Costa Concordia Jan 19, 2012
There is no limit to what Al Guardian is trying to defend. The captain was a coward, plain and simple, no buts no ifs. A captain leaving a sinking ship is as bad as you can ger. Al Guardian tries to explain it away with some amateur psychology: the reptilian fight or flight. Flight is just another word you are a coward.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/jan/18/captain-schettino-costa-concordia


This is the "fight-or-flight response", where our bodies flood with a cascade of hormones that mobilise the body for action. If we are not running away from danger, then we may be lashing out in anger. It's the same response that some of us experience when cut up in traffic, triggering that all-to-common road-rage phenomenon.

The "flight" impulse is usually accompanied by blind panic. When we panic, reason and balanced evaluation of the situation is by-passed by escalating, disorganised thoughts of terror that automatically intrude into consciousness. There can also be a sense of depersonalisation, a feeling that everything around is unreal. In short, when we panic, we feel that we are out of control and not our old self.

That "self" is a narrative that we hold about who we are. When we consider our self, we hold beliefs about what we would do in certain situations. However, the story we generate and the action we end up taking do not always match. In moments of stress, some of us become cowards and some become heroes – and it's surprisingly hard to foretell who will become which.

Schettino's actions may seem spineless, but of course that is easy for us to say in the cold light of day.

Cruise liners are not supposed to sink so I expect that any training he did have was not one that captured the reality of the unfolding disaster last Friday. Given his chance again, I doubt Schettino would have done the same thing.

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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 19, 2012
What has this got to do with Religion or Philosophy?

Interesting that you seem to be obsessing with the Guardian after issuing a challenge to produce distortions, misinformation and mistranslations of Memri - and which I've listed many which remain unchallenged/unexplained.

Was it because I quoted the article from the Guardian that you now feel you have to wage a war of innuendo?

I guess it is because you tried and failed to find any Memri-like distortions in the Guardian that you have to resort to these juvenile posts. :roll:

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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 19, 2012
The OP is not about YOU, nor is it about MEMRI.



Very sad also, that almost every post of yours consists of personal attacks. Very sad. Get a grip of yourself and man up!
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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 19, 2012
What has the post have to with Religion or Philosophy?

Why call an article in the Guardian about a ship captain an article from 'Al Guardian'?

This is definitely about your Memri challenge and a rather weak attempt at discrediting a proper news source. Not even a good try this time though - complete failure.

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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 19, 2012
shafique wrote:This is definitely about your Memri challenge


Huh??? Seriously!!!
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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 19, 2012
Yes, seriously. You're so easy to read these days FD.

So tell us, what has this got to do with Religion/Philosophy? It's not really even politics..

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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 19, 2012
I kindly encourage posting posts that are related to the thread. Any comment on the philosophical struggle of the captain?

That "self" is a narrative that we hold about who we are.
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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 19, 2012
Well, looking at the first half of the article, the bit not quoted - I have to say that Bruce Hood makes good points. He does point out that the Captain will be vilified - just like FD does in his opening lines - 'coward no doubt' etc.

He says that self-preservation is an instinct.

It seems Captain Schettino panicked. Who's to say you wouldn't?

The captain of the Costa Concordia will no doubt be vilified, but in the face of danger self-preservation is a natural reaction
Bruce Hood
...

Schettino will undoubtedly be vilified for his actions – but how many of us can say that we would not have done the same thing? Self-preservation is an instinct, much in the same way that your instincts tell you to put your hands out for protection when you let yourself fall backwards. In the face of impending danger, our brains can swing into reflexive defence mode, operating much faster and more automatically than when they recourse to calm, rational reasoning. Respond first and ask questions later, is the message, rather than place yourself in harm's way.
....


I personally agree with the commentator who said:

Self preservation is a natural instinct: yes, of course. But If you want to save your own skin ahead of looking after others, don't be a captain.


Indeed.

But this comment provides even more food for thought, and attacks the premise of Hood's article:
There are several interesting aspects to this story.

First, it's the fact that a luxury cruise liner gets so much attention. The rich and the famous are always accorded most respect.

Secondly, though, this article is a bit off. I heard an item on Radio 4 this morning (or was it last night?) where the speaker argued that people, generally speaking, don't freak out in panic situations, but can act quite calmly and selflessly. In that sense, the moral relativism put forward in this article seems out of place.

Thirdly, there is the myth of the dignified captain. It's a Victorian invention that captains have always sunk with their ship. I think there was one instance in C19 where this happened and this created the myth of the unstinting captain.

A far more interesting correlation would be to assess the relationship of arrogance and the captaincy of a cruise liner. The captain of the TItanic may have sunk with his ship, but only after arrogantly proclaiming it unsinkable, not including enough lifeboats, and receding into total inaction and catatonia during the sinking.


Point 2 and 3 are indeed interesting, as is the observation of arrogance and catatonia in the Titanic's captain.

Quality discussion in a quality paper. ;)

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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
I agree with FD. The Captain was nothing but a coward. I heard a recording of the conversation between the Captain and the coastguard. It was quite disturbing. The coastguard was ordering him to get back on the ship.

There is no excuse for him abandoning his passangers or his ship. I hope he goes down for a long time.

BTW I didn't realise there were rules about who could post what and where. Who made Shafique the boss?
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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
professorgreen wrote:There is no excuse for him abandoning his passangers or his ship.


The year is young, but I think this article is the dumbest I read this year. According to the article we shouldn't judge that easy. Also a possible lack of training is given as an excuse.
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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
I agree with FD and BM - the guy was indeed a coward. The article doesn't dispute this fact - it is just stating that acting 'cowardly' is natural when faced with life endagering situations.

What I find interesting is that the 'captain going down with the ship' seems to be a recent invention and largely myth... but that is just an interesting new bit of info for me.

Kudos to the Guardian for publishing a thought-provoking piece and generating a discussion.

Thanks too to FD for highlighting two recent Guardian articles - both are interesting when one actually reads what was written.

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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
So, Dearjohn, are you saying that FD hadn't read the article in the Guardian. You seem to be under the impression that you are the only person who can comprehend what is written.
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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
Well, whether FD read the article and intentionally spun it, or didn't read the article and copied the criticism from a pro-Israeli website that uses the term 'Al Guardian' is really only a question that FD can answer.

For my part, I thanked him for posting two interesting articles from this quality paper and applaud him for doing so. It would indeed be a bonus if the articles are read and understood - but let's be grateful for small mercies. What do you say grandma - agree or disagree? ;)

But given I agree on the substance that the Captain acted cowardly, I do believe this is a thread where there is no disagreement on the facts reported. Excellent.

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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
The article says that people shouldn't judge that easily for a captain leaving a ship in destress, and comes with some BS psychological explanation. I donot see anywhere in the article where the captain is labelled as a coward, only that he will be seen this way by many and then goes on excusing the captain.

Now it seems, even after the accident, the captain whined and dined with a woman. The woolen socks brigade doesn't stop anywhere at defended and finding excuses for the most despicable people.
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Re: Al Guardian defends Captain of the Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
Grandma? Is that supposed to be one of your sly personal attacks? Fail.
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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
BM - Why would the fact your daughter has a son be considered an insult? :roll: Fail is on you. ;)

FD - what is the 'woolen socks brigade', and has that something to do with 'Al Guardian' name calling?

But hey, kudos to the Guardian - they published an article which you have now read and felt strongly enough to quote. The level of debate on their site is quite interesting too - as I've said above. I'd say their doing their job quite well - even if you imagine them wearing 'woolen socks' :roll: :D

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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
shafique wrote:FD - what is the 'woolen socks brigade',


The density of grey goat woolen socks wearers tends to be higher in these circles. Just an empirical observation.

I thought there was a consensus on DF by the way to leave everybody's children out of this. You just can't help yourself can you, always play the snarky personal card. Let's keep it clean, ok!
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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
Where's your proof that the author of the article wears goat woolen socks? ;)

I think you'll find that the consensus amongst adults is that stating that someone who has posted they have a daughter who has a child is a 'grandmother' is not an insult. But should you have proof otherwise, let's see it. You seem to like asking for proof, so you should like the taste of your own medicine.

If someone calls me a father, I wouldn't be offended. Why would I? :roll:

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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
shafique wrote:I think you'll find that the consensus amongst adults is that stating that someone who has posted they have a daughter who has a child is a 'grandmother' is not an insult.


Most people have a sense when they can say something or not and donot mention it out of nowhere in a discussion like this. Your intentions were very clear. Now, snark away! From the beginning you are trying to derail this topic with personal remarks. And that's you all can do, it seems, there is rarely a post from you where you play the ball.
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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
:?

This is a new trend FD - you've moved on from diagnoses of illnesses to now imagining a catalogue of insults from the one word 'Grandma'. Amazing.

But please continue to read the Guardian and post the interesting articles you come across. You'll realise pretty soon that I tend to laugh at ad hominem fantasies. ;)

(And it seems you agree with me and Chocs that Profgreen is probably BM in disguise. If not, what are the crocodile tears for?)

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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
Whateva Shaf, discuss whateva you want to discuss, from professorgreen, me , grandma to BM. Whateva.
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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
Invitation accepted - why don't we discuss your erudite point concerning goat-hair socks:

shafique wrote:Where's your proof that the author of the article wears goat woolen socks?


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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
It is quite clear that you were using the term 'Grandma' in a derogative manner. Stop squirming and stick to the subject matter.

At least you are reminding people of your true colours.
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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
Are you admitting you are a grandma and aren't happy with it, or that you aren't a grandma?

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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
WTF has it got to do with you? I suggest you stick to the subject matter in hand.
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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
I'm not the one getting their knickers in a twist over the word 'grandma'!

So, back to the topic at hand - where were we? Oh yes, FD was to explain his theory about the Guardian journalist:
shafique wrote:Invitation accepted - why don't we discuss your erudite point concerning goat-hair socks:

Where's your proof that the author of the article wears goat woolen socks?


Let's see what imagined footwear has to do with the topic - must have some relevance. ;)

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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
No, you are the one who has resorted to name calling. What has my personal circumstances got to do with this topic and would you object if I refered to you by the colour of your skin? If I used your logic then it wouldn't be insulting as you are one.

--- Fri Jan 20, 2012 8:16 pm ---

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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
Correctly so prof, calling Shafique a chubby Mauretanian wouldn't also have any relevance.
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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 20, 2012
shafique , actually mentioning or implying the age of a lady is considered bad manner or even insulting in some places.
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Re: Al Guardian Defends Captain Of The Costa Concordia Jan 21, 2012
Andy - in this case I referred to ProfessorGreen as 'grandma' on the basis that the poster is actually Bethsmum, who has publically posted on this forum that she is a grandmother. In many cultures around the world, 'grandma' is not an insulting term.

But ProfessorGreen may not be a lady. ;)

BM - no, just stating what my skin colour (brown) or where I was born (England) or what my nationality is (British) would not be considered insulting if I had disclosed these facts on the forum (which I have). Stating that you are a grandma is just the same.

So now we've cleared that up, let's go back to FD's footwear theory (it is slightly more relevant to this thread):

shafique wrote: why don't we discuss your erudite point concerning goat-hair socks:

Where's your proof that the author of the article wears goat woolen socks?


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