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Vive La France!

Muslim's getting their knckers in a knot again today!
Hopefully the ban will spread across Europe but Britain will resist as we are too bothered about upsetting the Muslims

France's controversial burka ban became law today sparking a protest in Paris during which two women wearing full face veils were arrested.
The demonstrations, however, were on a relatively small scale with the handful of protesters being outnumbered by police, reporters and tourists.

Ironically, the biggest protest was actually in London where a group of women in full black burkas gathered outside the French Embassy.
Shouting slogans and bearing banners with the words Shariah 4 France, Nicolas Sarkozy Burn In Hellfire and Niqab: Honour For Women, they were the most vocal opponents to the new law.
Hateful preacher Abu Izzadeen, who has previously been jailed for incitement, spoke during the protest.
The burka ban has been dogged by controversy until becoming law in France today.
Women who break the new legislation could face fines of 150 euros, or £132, as well as citizenship lessons.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z1JEWKIhWw

Your understanding of the situation is a failure Missy..It is not burqa that is banned it is niqab (the face mask in arabic) that is banned..

Berrin wrote:Your understanding of the situation is a failure Missy..It is not burqa that is banned it is niqab (the face mask in arabic) that is banned..

Paris, France (CNN) -- French lawmakers Tuesday recommended a partial ban on any veils that cover the face -- including the burqa, the full-body covering worn by some Muslim women.

The ban on the "voile integrale" -- which literally means "total veil" -- would apply in public places like hospitals and schools, and on public transport, a French parliamentary commission announced.

It would also apply to anyone who attempts to receive public services, but it would not apply to people wearing the burqa on the street, the commission said.

Whatever Berrin! A step in the right direction though!

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/europ ... index.html

I strongly support the law of banning this meaningless face cover. Regardless my hatred to it, I think its totally unacceptable and rude for non-native French people to object on a French law that majority of native French people support.
Those ninjas in shadows can go back to their country of origin and demand whatever dress code they desire.

Each and every country is entitled to its own laws. Only local citizens can object and criticize such laws.

The same way I support laws of modest dress code, as I'm totally against those almost nude people walking around in moderately conservative countries.

That's how I balance the equation.

I strongly support the law of banning this meaningless face cover.

Face cover isn't compulsory in islam but Imagine a lady goes to a family/girls gathering few streets away, on foot walk and has make up on her face and therefore wants to cover it? now that wouldn't be unislamic would it?

Each and every country is entitled to its own laws. Only local citizens can object and criticize such laws.

What if the local converts decide to wear niqab too?

The same way I support laws of modest dress code, as I'm totally against those almost nude people walking around in moderately conservative countries.

When someone is a muslim/non-muslim living under sharia run state there is no such thing as mild nudeness, or almost nude dress code. Islam describes ladies dress code for all of ladies who want to mix with each other as men and women in society..

.

Berrin wrote:
Face cover isn't compulsory in islam but Imagine a lady goes to a family/girls gathering few streets away, on foot walk and has make up on her face and therefore wants to cover it? now that wouldn't be unislamic would it?

Those wearing niqab are wearing it as part of their daily life style, which is different than a women who wants to cover up for a short distance walk once in a while as per a situation or an occasion.

By the way, in Islam, women are not supposed to cover up their faces when praying.

Berrin wrote:
What if the local converts decide to wear niqab too?

If a local converts to Islam, and decided to wear a niqab while her country bans it, then she should obey the law as obeying the government in general is of more high profile than a non-compulsory self preference behaviour.
(This is according to the Islamic social laws which I'm educated with).

Berrin wrote:When someone is a muslim/non-muslim living under sharia run state there is no such thing as mild nudeness, or almost nude dress code. Islam describes ladies dress code for all of ladies who want to mix with each other as men and women in society...

Islam described a dress code its own followers, but it did not urge any enforce to it.
Modesty is the main point of the dress code set by religions.

Yep, Walking around with your ass hangin out is no crime , but this is ?

symmetric wrote:I strongly support the law of banning this meaningless face cover. Regardless my hatred to it, I think its totally unacceptable and rude for non-native French people to object on a French law that majority of native French people support.
Those ninjas in shadows can go back to their country of origin and demand whatever dress code they desire.

Each and every country is entitled to its own laws. Only local citizens can object and criticize such laws.

The same way I support laws of modest dress code, as I'm totally against those almost nude people walking around in moderately conservative countries.

That's how I balance the equation.

Sym, I totally agree with you. I really hate it when I am down on the Walk and I see people coming off the beack in bikini tops. I always think to myself how ignorant they are, walking around half naked in a Muslim country. I would always respect the laws and the dress code of the country I was in. I find it offensive and I'm a westerner.

We're on the same page BM

Those wearing niqab are wearing it as part of their daily life style, which is different than a women who wants to cover up for a short distance walk once in a while as per a situation or an occasion.

Yes but once it gets banned, they all get melted in the same pot..the law woudn't listen to anyone' excuse.
The correct action would be to implement a law in a way that the niqab would be dropped when it is a requirement upon offical request to identify the person. A sincere muslim with a niqab is not meant to harm anybody.

By the way, in Islam, women are not supposed to cover up their faces when praying.

I was thinking that they were wearing niqab when mixing with non-mahrams outside.

If a local converts to Islam, and decided to wear a niqab while her country bans it, then she should obey the law as obeying the government in general is of more high profile than a non-compulsory self preference behaviour.

I'd say you're right, but in secular liberal democracies you're not meant to draw description of modesty by identifying any kind of dress code..General people who are mixing outside are free to dress like anything they want. France is extraordinary in the sense that in Europe it has been the only country where Laicite has been attempted for rather extreme interpration.

Islam described a dress code its own followers,

Correct, ultimately this means that muslims who are in covenant with god laws establish a society to form a sharia state in which there wouldn't be any outsider to break its social laws as well..

but it did not urge any enforce to it.

Where is it in quran or in prophets sunnah that doesn't urge or enforce it..

Modesty is the main point of the dress code set by religions.

Yes, like authentic christianity and judaism,islam too describes both modest behaviour and dress code for apperance in public..

Yes but once it gets banned, they all get melted in the same pot..the law woudn't listen to anyone' excuse.
The correct action would be to implement a law in a way that the niqab would be dropped when it is a requirement upon offical request to identify the person. A sincere muslim with a niqab is not meant to harm anybody.

There isn't any excuse for breaking the law.
The correction action according to Berrin? The majority of French people wanted the burka banned, and rightly so, it was banned. If the women (or the men behind them) want to walk about dressed in that manner, then they should be living in a country which accepts that dress code. France doesn't. Vive La France!

And Vive la Rest of Europe in the future with any luck.

Bethsmum wrote:

Yes but once it gets banned, they all get melted in the same pot..the law woudn't listen to anyone' excuse.
The correct action would be to implement a law in a way that the niqab would be dropped when it is a requirement upon offical request to identify the person. A sincere muslim with a niqab is not meant to harm anybody.

There isn't any excuse for breaking the law.
The correction action according to Berrin? The majority of French people wanted the burka banned, and rightly so, it was banned. If the women (or the men behind them) want to walk about dressed in that manner, then they should be living in a country which accepts that dress code. France doesn't. Vive La France!

And Vive la Rest of Europe in the future with any luck.

Missy this is secular, not God made law for all, in which strict separation of church and state governing is seen as central to maintaining a peaceful civil society. In other words the state will not care what you wear and practise outside..Under secular law the mojority of French people cannot ask the burka to be banned since this would mean discrimination by some humans against the other when there is freedom to life styles..Despite this secularism if bans reach to general public,then this would mean any party who is deprived off their likings would start to fight back for dominance in return. Basically secular law means Your freedom ends where it begins to impinge on my freedom.The street is the universal home of freedom and nobody should challenge that so long as these woman are not impinging on anyone else's freedom. In my mind the french state is failing to explain why there is the need to ban it out in public.

If the women (or the men behind them) want to walk about dressed in that manner, then they should be living in a country which accepts that dress code.

Ohh you contradict yourself here Missy. Didn't you say that Britan was for British, likewise France is for French..Arabia is for Arabs.Mind you tho Adam and Eve was never told which peace of land was theirs:)) you know its only comes about as a problem when all these secular nationalists looking for trouble..

By the way Missy, you know you are meant to vote for pro speech:))
It's her body, her choice...
If she wants to wear a niqab, she should be able to - her niqab, her choice..
If you don't believe wearing niqab (free speech) then don't wear any niqab yourself.
Now don't you believe that individuals should be in control of their own bodies?
My niqab, my choice..
If you don't like free speech, don't practise free speech yourself..

I voted pro niqab speech BM:)))) I dunno why, it just sounds right to me..)))

You know, it must be so difficult for those who choose to live on a planet or dimension parallel to Earth and the third dimension, that most of us on DF live, and hope to communicate effectively and contribute positively to the discussions on the board, who quite obviously are simply not speaking the same language.

I’ve come to the conclusion, that the Babel Fish Intergalactic Translator, is what is needed for all Earthlings on DF to facilitate a better understanding of our alien friends.

Berrin wrote:Missy this is secular, not God made law for all, in which strict separation of church and state governing is seen as central to maintaining a peaceful civil society.

If you agree separation of church and state government - then why the push by Muslims to integrate Sharia - which is based on religion!!! - into democratic governments such as the UK and the US???

I see that you in agreement with EH that it's OK to burn the Koran. Nice going Berrin. Please let us know, through the power of free speech, when you plan to burn yours and where. Please video it and post it to youtube. Oh, wait, is that an exception to the "free speech" theory??

Muslims screaming religious persecution over this, well add discrimination to women while they are at it. Anyone in their right mind and has any clue of how the world has changed knows that the purpose for this is security. How would these women who cover their faces feel if they were sitting next to a man who was wearing a ninja mask on a plane? or walking down a side street and someone walks towards them wearing a ninja mask? Nervous?? Sure they would be nervous, along with everyone else whose face isn't covered.

Do you guyz know who Mark Dorcel Is ? They should do something about him first !