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gerts - I think you have the wrong thread - I have posted official stats from the Norwegian government which show there isn't an epidemic of rapes by immigrants (but rather that the majority are carried out by Norwegians). But thanks for highlighting that there are gullible bloggers out there that choose to not investigate beyond loon hype:

shafique wrote:Fail. Again.

Official Norwegian statistics proves your fantasy was a hoax:
http://www.ssb.no/english/subjects/03/0 ... 34-en.html

Cheers,
Shafique

fight-club/muslim-rape-epidemic-sweden-and-norway-t47892-90.html#p392836

(I see someone has moved this to fight club)

Herve - you too are wrong. Islam does not allow s.ex outside of marriage, forced marriages or (despite loon wild imaginations) paedophillia.

Cheers,
Shafique

shaf, your stats are flawed because the Norwegian Government is not allowed to mention that the rapists are Muslims.

What this has to do with Islam. Sex outside of marriage in Islam is one of the biggest sin.

shafique wrote:Your imagination is getting tiring.

But why the desperation to justify a discredited loon notion about Islam? Who are you trying to convince?

Cheers,
Shafique

It's fairly straightforward.

1) There's no passage in the Koran that prohibits pedophilia.

2) The Koran allows prepubescent marriage

3) Prepubescent wives are to wait three months before marrying after a divorce

4) The only time wives are required to wait to remarry after a divorce is if they have had s.exual relations with their husbands

5) Ergo, the Koran allows husbands to have s.exual relations with prepubescent wives - otherwise there would be no requirement for prepubescent wives to wait three months

You've got to love the desperation of the loons.

gertrude is in denial about the official Norwegian statistics which disprove that immigrants (Muslim or otherwise) are causing an 'epidemic' of rapes (in reality, the vast majority recorded are by Norwegians), and eh is trying to spin his one misinterpretation of a verse about divorce into a fatwa about paedophillia!

I love it.

As nucleus says, Islam is very clear. S.ex outside marriage not allowed, forced marriages not allowed and paedophillia definitely not allowed (despite eh's desperation).

Cheers,
Shafique

Desperation is being unable to counter the arguments and verses presented.

What part of 'misinterprets one verse about divorce' confused you eh?

Cheers,
Shafique

What part of a waiting period for prepubescent girls confused you?

The part where you tried to make out your fantasy misinterpretation of a verse about divorce is real. Duh.

It really must annoy you that Islam is clear that s.ex outside marriage, forced marriages and paedophillia are all not allowed. But hey, we all understand you with to portray a loon misinterpretation as fact - knock yourself out.

Cheers,
Shafique

Is deductive reasoning too difficult for you?

Dressing up a loon misinterpretation will not change a loon misinterpretation - the verse is about divorce and your spin is laughable.

Cheers,
Shafique

The verse is about a waiting period for divorcing prepubescent girls. Waiting periods are only required if husbands have had s.exual relations with their wives.

You really are embarrassing yourself if you fail to see what these passages mean.

You imagine it is about pre-pubescent girls, however it isn't. Hence your confusion.

I fully understand why you wish it to be so, without this misinterpretation your whole argument has no basis whatsoever.

Cheers,
Shafique

So your interpretation contradicts the video you posted numerous times in this thread?

Strange. Even the narrator of your video acknowledges that v65:4 includes prepubescent girls.

He, however, puts his own spin on one Koranic verse, ignores v33:49 and claims, without citation, that the waiting period is for reconciliation rather than what v33:49 says a waiting period is for.

11 10 2011 Study finds thousands of forced marriages in Germany , according to the report, 83.4 percent of the parents are Muslims.
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,15 ... l-1573-rdf

event horizon wrote:The verse is about a waiting period for divorcing prepubescent girls. Waiting periods are only required if husbands have had s.exual relations with their wives.

You really are embarrassing yourself if you fail to see what these passages mean.

Wait is to see if there is a pregnancy, sure prepubescent girls will get pregnant . Amazing how biased a person can get.

-- Sun Nov 13, 2011 5:01 am --

gertrude wrote:11 10 2011 Study finds thousands of forced marriages in Germany , according to the report, 83.4 percent of the parents are Muslims.
http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,15 ... l-1573-rdf

That is on the assumption that every one follows a religion properly. Not everybody follows even the laws in a country properly. sheesh

Nucleus wrote:

event horizon wrote:The verse is about a waiting period for divorcing prepubescent girls. Waiting periods are only required if husbands have had s.exual relations with their wives.

You really are embarrassing yourself if you fail to see what these passages mean.

Wait is to see if there is a pregnancy, sure prepubescent girls will get pregnant . Amazing how biased a person can get.

There is nothing in the passage about waiting to see if the wife is pregnant. The third part of the verse requires a waiting period for wives who are already pregnant:

65:4 - 1) As for your women who have despaired of further menstruating, if you are in doubt, their period shall be three months; 2) and those who have not menstruated as yet. 3) And those who are with child, their term is when they bring forth their burden. Whoso fears God, God will appoint for him, of His command, easiness.

v33:49 is clear that waiting periods are required only for wives who've had s.exual relations with their husbands:

O believers, when you marry believing women and then divorce them before you touch them, you have no period to reckon against them; so make provision for them, and set them free with kindliness.

So why would prepubescent wives need to wait three months for a divorce if the Koran says wives who have not had s.exual relations with their husbands do not need a waiting period?

Waiting is to see if there is pregnancy, hence, one of the verse you quoted says if women is divorced before touching (i.e. sexual relations) then there is no waiting period.

Second the other verse says " if you are in doubt, their period shall be three months" that doubt is related to pregnancy, hence, the wait.

"So why would prepubescent wives" where those verses say prepubescent? The verse is talking about menstruation. Prepubescent girls menstruate?

Nucleus wrote:"So why would prepubescent wives" where [does] the verse say prepubescent?

v65:4 talks about prepubescent wives in the middle of the verse:

65:4 - 1) As for your women who have despaired of further menstruating, if you are in doubt, their period shall be three months; 2) and those who have not menstruated as yet. 3) And those who are with child, their term is when they bring forth their burden. Whoso fears God, God will appoint for him, of His command, easiness.

"those who have not menstruated yet" = prepubescent wives

The Koran says the only time a waiting period is required is if the husband has s.exual relations with his wife.

Since the Koran says prepubescent wives are to wait three months that means having s.exual relations with prepubescent girls is allowed in the Koran.

It couldn't get anymore straightforward than that.

As for pregnancy, which the Koran does not mention, there could certainly be some doubt if the prepubescent wife may have in fact become fertile at around the time of divorce.

nucleus, the problem eh has is that his whole argument rests on this one Islamophobic misinterpretation about a verse on divorce.

He has to try really, really, really hard to ignore the fact that the Quran is very clear about not allowing forced marriages, s.ex outside of marriage or any paedophillia.

This has been dealt with in the video which he says he has watched - which not only addresses this one verse, but also gives the other verses and Islamic rulings on the subject. It is an epic fail on his behalf and he keeps coming back to his misinterpretation of this one verse about divorce.

Fail.

Here's the video, with all the evidence in it.... Again!



Cheers,
Shafique

Good video, thanks!

Nucleus wrote:Good video, thanks!

Is it available in High Definition?

Nucleus wrote:Good video, thanks!

Perhaps you can show where the Koran prohibits pedophilia?

Anyways, the video makes several unsupported claims on v65:4 and never discusses v33:49.

Shafique can do nothing more than troll at this point.

LOL - loons and their weird beliefs eh!

You can smell eh's desperation - wanting to believe a rogue loon misinterpretation rather than the clear evidence provided.

Cheers,
Shafique

That you can't actually argue against my position says it all.

event horizon wrote:That you can't actually argue against my position says it all.

You don't really have a position. " and those who have not menstruated as yet." doesn't mean prepubescent. Mensuration happens in cycles and one sign of pregnancy is mensuration cycle stops, hence, the verse says for those who have not menstruated to wait.

Nucleus wrote:

event horizon wrote:That you can't actually argue against my position says it all.

You don't really have a position. " and those who have not menstruated as yet." doesn't mean prepubescent. Mensuration happens in cycles and one sign of pregnancy is mensuration cycle stops, hence, the verse says for those who have not menstruated to wait.

I'm afraid you are quite wrong.


The adverb YET has 6 senses:

1. up to the present time
2. used in negative statement to describe a situation that has existed up to this point or up to the present time
3. to a greater degree or extent; used with comparisons
4. within an indefinite time or at an unspecified future time
5. used after a superlative
6. despite anything to the contrary (usually following a concession)


Therefore in this context, as yet, would mean that girls who have not menstruated at all, and not those who have, but stopped.

Therefore, prepubescent

However you dress up this misinterpretation, it is still the only basis of the loon (Islamophobic) argument that Islam allows paedophillia - and is quite hilarious how hard you have to work to ignore what Islam actually teaches: that s.ex outside marriage, forced marriages and paedophillia are all not allowed.

prof - did you watch the video above, and did you not understand the clear evidence in the video? It appears you haven't. (And you do realise that you need to look at the underlying Arabic, and not the English translation - don't you?)

Good try though.

Cheers,
Shafique

I didn't watch the video. I was merely correcting Nucleaus' incorrect interpretation of 'as yet'.

I suggest you watch the video and then you'll understand why it is dangerous to believe what eh and other Islamophobes tell you about Islam - and why they are deliberately misinterpreting this verse.

There are a number of sources online where you can check the translation and meaning of Quranic verses - but the short-cut would be to watch the video.

Cheers,
Shafique