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Your words came at me in a hostile manner... Especially when you said a few posts back "so said Mohammad"... He should be adressed to as the Prophet Mohommad (PBUH). But in any event, The Prophet said many things but you must keep in mind that when he was reciting scriptures it was not him talking but God. So in reality you should have said "so said God". And then my response would be, "yes, indeed, so says God Alhamdulilah"...

Peace!

i have to agree with liban ... i mean ... im a christian ... there are certain similarities .... of christian and islam ... and i do believe that we are brothers in religion ... while you ABS ... you are really confusing .... you strike me as a man of good will and a man of god ... but with your post ... theres soooo much hatred and hostility with your words ... like posting ... prophet Mohammad. as Mohammad. dude .... if we christians wants christianity to be respected then i say we should know how to respect others first . !!! and another thing .... islam embracess us ... us brothers in religion because our religion all came from the 3 holly scriptures / books ... yes good .... but i really see no point of you posting in a hoslite manner that "NO!!!! Christians are not the same as Islam "... well if thats your point of view then so be it ... but there are other erspectfull ways to pitch your view ... like what i always tell me brothers ... "No one has the right to preach holliness and the word of god to others, if He him self cant learn the essence of the very basic law of religion ... love and RESPECT!" ...... i rest my case ....

abs wrote:And so says Mohamed?

He just copied from the Bible and did his own modification.

Added bits here and there and twisted whats in the bible.

Please don't tell me that everything he wrote about Isaiah, Jesus,John,Solomon,David,Mary,Moses,Abraham,Jacob,Adam,Eve, Elisha,Eli, Daniel, King Nebechanezzar ALL CAME FROM HIS REVELATION from God.

Tell me you don't think....He did not FOR ONCE..looked into the bible to get these stories.
Which is..I remind you again....800 years after the death of Jesus.
800 freaking years !!!! And you claim its the word of God when its been in the Holy Bible for 800 years!

Please don't tell me you believe what was said by 1 person instead of the multitude of first witnesses in the bible.

You believe that the bible has been altered despite I patiently explain to you that that claim is nothing more then a lie to divert God seeking people away from the pure truth. Nothing has been altered. Its scientifically and archeologically proven that the Holy Bible HAS NOT BEEN ALTERED AT ALL. Whereras the Quran can never has such claims. The Quran claims alot of things but when you put it against archeological scrutiny, it can barely stand on its on book shelf legs let alone the scrutiny of modern day scientists.

Sin MUST be paid. Not matter how many times you pray a day. The sin is still there. You said the only way to enter through the gates of Heaven is by the grace of God.
That is true.
Grace has already been given, and that is the truth too.
God has shown us grace by making His son die for us and in return earn us. That is grace. Receive it.
To be with God, its not by WORKS but by Grace.

Quran diverts people away from receiving the cleansing of our sins through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. Without that blood..NO ONE can see the gates of Heaven.

If sniper claims that you are gay. That may not be the truth. But if a few hundred people says that you are gay, then I will be inclne to believe.

Science and probability of 2 few hundred year old prophecy coming true within 500 years side by side is 1 to a billion. Let alone 456 prophecies coming to past ON ONE MAN - Jesus Christ.
All this evidence of Jesus is practically screaming that He is the true Son of God and yet people cannot see it.

The Jesus in the Quran is NOT the Jesus we know. It is not the same JEsus the ancient Jews and Greeks know. If you check history, all will tell you that the account of Jesus in the Bible is accurate. So stop bragging about the Jesus in the Quran being the Jesus we worship for it is not.

I'd listen to facts and proven histories then words from some "Prophet of Doom" for that is what it will bring.

And you still have not answer me where did the word "Allah" come from.
Quickly go do your research before I tell you the answer.
I have Muslim friends researching this fact for me and it will be in my hands in a matter of weeks. And who knows...those Muslim friends of mine may just be save from that knowledge and become Christians.

I am sorry if I am harsh, but your accusations ignited the righteous fire in me and I will stand up, not for God, because He does not need me to defend Him, but for the multitudes of unsaved. The Lost race of Adam.

thats a very angry/hostile ... un respectfull post !!! and you expect people to believe you ??? if there are more of you huys talking that way ... i dont wonder ... why so many christians convert to islam ...

I find that the most christians that feel deeply about their faith are intolerent of others - especially towards Islam.

Most Muslims who feel deeply about their faith (not referring to extremists) are no like that and we accept Jews and Christians as people of the Book.

Hi guys ,, again you are getting away from the good way to speak about this kind of discussions,,,

First of all >> Abs ,, yes your post included too many insulting to Holy Quraan , Prophet Mohammad pbuh, and Islam . I don’t think that this is a method to get things explained as you said in the other thread ,,,this way you will be getting only some what are called Terrorists bombing at your home . and this way you are speaking about islam ,, you can consider yourself an intellecual-terrorist ,, dont you think so ???

Now Liban ,,,, well,, I can understand you coz I am a muslim just like you ,,, but I don’t expect others to accept what we believe just like this ,, I mean instead of telling a Christian that his Bible is not correct or a jweish that his Torah is not correct ,, you could try to show facts why the Holy Quraan is 100% correct , and ofcourse those facts are existed .


Now back to the thing >>>>>>>> Abs ,, first of all ,, the Prophet Muhammad pbuh,, didn’t possess the Bible nor the Torah . I don’t know where did you come with this from !!!!!! A very interesting thing ,, the Prophet pbuh , was not able to read nor to write ,,and this is one of God’s arrangings to prove that the Holy Quraan is God’s words ,,, and could never be of a Human’s speaking . not only this ,,, The Prophet pbuh ,, of course in his life has given speeches and sayings , but , he prevented his companions from writing those speeches ,, why ??? coz he ordered them to write only Quraan ,, why ? coz he didn’t want his speeches to get mixed up with the Holy Quraan , and this is also one of the God’s arrangings to keep Holy Quraan safe . coz God has guaranteed in the Holy Quraan to keep it safe and away from messing up with it .

Furthermore ,,, Holy Quraan is in Arabic ,, and its language itself was a miracle to the people at that time ,, I mean they were arabs ,, and they knew the ability of a very high leveled people in language ,, I mean poets ,,,,, etc. At that time ,, Holy Quraan challenged Arabs to come with a single Sura ,, or a single verse that promotes to the level of language that it used ,,, they just failed ,, not only that ,,, most of them came muslims coz of it ,, coz they knew that this kind of speaking would never be of a human being .

The science in Quraan ,,, I always insist on this side coz it’s the nearest to people’s minds nowadays ,,, I mean ,, Quraan has spoken about different things 1400 years back that would never have been discovered at that time in any way ,,, and they are getting its meanings now only after the science is explaining them . and believe me they are amazing ,,, it spoke about the baby in his mother’s uterus ,, it spoke about the planets in the universe how each one has an orbit ,,, etc .

Holy Quraan is involved with everything ,, I mean its like constitution to the whole nation of Islam ,, not to mention the whole world ,,as the message of Islam is for all , it spoke about social life ,, about financial transactions ,, about heritage ,about politics about ancient civilization , it even spoke about orginzing the relationship between a husband and his wife . In a word, Quraan organizes the life ,,, of course if its applied ,, but unfortunately its not .. and I don’t want to go through this ,, coz it will lead us to speak about politics here .
What is mentioned in Holy Quraan ,, while it was mentioned in the Bible first ,,, I don’t see any problem with that ,,, why there should be one ??? they are from the very exact source ,,,, even Prophet Muhammad himself was mentioned in Torah and Bible , there is a whole Sura in Quraan : ( Mariam ) that is Mary in Arabic ,, speaking about virgin Mary and Jesus ,, .many many verses speak about Bani Israel ,, those are the Jewish people … and the history of Prophet Muhammad pbuh , is full of stories with the jewish people ,,,, I will tell you this thing ,,, the people of Madinah ,, that is the city where the Prophet has migrated to , and established the first state of Islam ,, were the first to support the Prophet and believe in him ,,, why ??? once in a year where pilgrims went to Mecca for Hajj ,,, the Prophet met some people from Madinah ,, he offered Islam as he is ordered to offer it to people ,, what did those people say ? they said : We swear by God that this is the Prophet that Bani Israel has told about ,, that he will appear ,,, so don’t let Bani Israel believe in him before you . Jews new that there will be a prophet and a last one ,, sent to people ,,but they thought that he will be from them ,,, coz it was like this in the past ,,, most of the prophets were from Bani Israel ,,,, so Jews kept telling and informing about that Prophet who will come and it was near the timing that they said he will appear ,, so they just were waiting for him . but of course when they saw that he didn’t appear from them ,,, well,, they just denied it ,,, of course there were some Jews who believe and embraced Islam at that time but ,, am speaking about the majority of them .

One thing more ,, before the great migration to Mecca ,, there was two small migrations to Habsha ,,so called at that time which is nowadays called Ethybia ,, ( I am not sure of the spelling ) , at that time the unbelievers of Mecca started annoying the muslims who were becoming more and more ,,, so the Prophet pbuh ,, told them to migrate to Habasha ,, coz he knew that its king applied justice at that time ,, and guess what ,,he was Christian ,,, what did the prophet said ? he said : Go to Habasha, that there is a king who never applies injustice “ well,, when they went there, the unbelievers of Mecca followed them to prevent them from staying in calm ,,, so they asked that king to kick those Muslims out of his territory , he asked them why ??? then they had to find a reason ,, so they told him to ask the muslims what their Quraan tells them about Jesus and Mary ,,, one of the Muslim there recited the verses in the Sura I told you about “Mariam “ ,,, the king started crying ,, and said : I swear by God that they said the truth . ,,,,,,,,,,,,, and he refused to let the unbelievers to put hand on them .

Now why we Muslims believe that Bible and Torah are deformed by humans ??? coz Holy Quraan said that ,,, as we believe that Quraan is correct from what I mentioned above .

Now what you say that Islam and Christianity are different !!!!!!!!! I say yes and no ,,,, they are alike and they are different ,,, they are alike of that they are from the same source ,,, and they are different in the way they are offering the kind of belief to their followers ,,, now of course the original Bible had the same instructions as any Holy Book ,,, the message was one >>>> TO WORSHIP GOD AND NOTHING BUT GOD .



And what do you mean by where did we get the word Allah from ????? it’s the name of God ,,, the same god that Muslims , Christians and Jews worship ,,,, its in Arabic ,,, and you can check with an arab Christian about this my dear … this way you even insulted God … ( god forbids ,,,and may he forgive us )



Let me tell you about the missionaries in the middle east ,,,, and I am really sorry from the bottom of my heart that they use this way which I only can call “ cheap” , they either use the poverty of certain people to get them into Christianity ,,, or they use the ,,,mmmm ,, what to call it ? the desires that people usually have ,,, like being in an environment where you can mingle with tooo much ladies or vise versa ,,,, where you can do all your desires ,,, I know one like this in dubai ,,, and you know what ?????? he arranges parties to get people in it ,, drinking ,, relationships ,,, etc. after all that ,,he starts with offering Christianity and its GREATNESS ,,, I mean what is this ????? well,, I don’t that Jesus would accept something like this …I know that drinking and mingling is not a sin ,, in current Christianity , ,,,, and of course I didn’t mean the usual mingling ,,, they try to get Muslims in such parties ,, coz you might know that mingling in such a way is prohibited in Islam …. Do you know what a guy told him once when he found out what his aim was ??? he told him ,, what is this ?? you get a bible free when you take two boobs ??? I am sorry to say it like this in public ,, but this happened ,,, don’t you find it shameful for a very respectful religion men to do ?????????


Believe me Abs ,,,,, all what we believe in will serve us only in the after life ,, we are not living for this life ,, the scope is the after life, in the meanwhile we are all living in the same world ,,and it will get you nowhere with this kind of attitude . and even Quraan ,, distinguished the unbelievers from Christians and Jews ,, Quraan called them : People of Book ,,, so even with this ,, Quraan was fair with them ,, it considered them believers in God ,,,, BUT ,,,, ,,,, they got into other small ways ,, away from the straight one that leads only to God .

Let me tell you this ,,,, my uncle’s wife is Christian , she is Spanish ,, she stayed in my country for two years ,,, I can say that she is the kind of fair Christians ,,, she had no problem with Muslims ,, on the contrary ,,, she is an open minded lady ,,, I even went with her to the church one day ,, although its an Arab country and a muslim one. It was Christmas ,,, she and I were walking around the city ,, we arrived to a place where the biggest church in the city stood ,,, she just stopped in front of it ,, and started looking at it ,, I mean her eyes were going to go out from their place ,, then I asked her : do you want to go in ????? she looked at me with joy ,,, with happiness ,,, and said : if its ok with you to wait for me for few minutes . I said : I will go in with you ,,, she was amazed ,, I mean look at this situation ,,, she wanted to go inside the church so badly ,,, but she felt embarrassed to let me out standing alone ,,, but I understood that she wanted it …. What do you call this comparing to what you are trying to do here ????????? this is the level of culture we should lead in this life ,,, Islam doesn’t force people to embrace it … A Muslim’s mission is to offer it only ,, who wants to accept it ,, then its ok ,,,who doesn’t want then its his decision . and this is mentioned also in the Holy Quraan ,,, I wonder why you don’t ask about these verses ,,,, but I know why ,, coz they reveal the greatness of Islam ,,, ok ,, a person usually asks about the things he is doubtful about ,, OR the things he want to seem doubtful ,,,, .

mAJOR pAIN wrote:i have to agree with liban ... i mean ... im a christian ... there are certain similarities .... of christian and islam ... and i do believe that we are brothers in religion ... while you ABS ... you are really confusing .... you strike me as a man of good will and a man of god ... but with your post ... theres soooo much hatred and hostility with your words ... like posting ... prophet Mohammad. as Mohammad. dude .... if we christians wants christianity to be respected then i say we should know how to respect others first . !!! and another thing .... islam embracess us ... us brothers in religion because our religion all came from the 3 holly scriptures / books ... yes good .... but i really see no point of you posting in a hoslite manner that "NO!!!! Christians are not the same as Islam "... well if thats your point of view then so be it ... but there are other erspectfull ways to pitch your view ... like what i always tell me brothers ... "No one has the right to preach holliness and the word of god to others, if He him self cant learn the essence of the very basic law of religion ... love and RESPECT!" ...... i rest my case ....

thanks major pain ,,, this is the kind of spirit that should be among all people ,, i dont mean that i am happy coz you took liban's side ,,, in fact you didnt take anybody's sid ,,, and i really admire that that in you ... this is what i call being fair ,, and just living with other people in understanding . thanks man ,, you are a great DJ ,,

Alhamdoulillah... Subhan Allah al Azeem....

hey ,, i forgot to say something Abs ,,,, how do you look to Jews ???? as they are believing in a religion previous to Christianity ????? i think you will feel towards them the same way a Muslim will feel towards a christian or a jewish ,,,, with the eye of understanding ,,,,, and this is how i feel towards you man ,,,,

castellano wrote:hey ,, i forgot to say something Abs ,,,, how do you look to Jews ???? as they are believing in a religion previous to Christianity ????? i think you will feel towards them the same way a Muslim will feel towards a christian or a jewish ,,,, with the eye of understanding ,,,,, and this is how i feel towards you man ,,,,

You just have to see what the Spaniard did to the Jews during the inquisition to know how Christians view them...

Interesting fact, who are the Moroccan Jews we know of today? Those are Jewish refugees from Spain that left Iberia after the cursadors conquered Spain from the Moores (Arab Muslims) and then proceeded to spread their hellish tyranny on the non-Christians there....

I like Jews, why not? I dislike people on an individual basis.

Pumpkin Escobar wrote:I like Jews, why not? I dislike people on an individual basis.

this is what i was trying to say ,,, but what i ment is looking at their belief ,,, i am not evaluting people through their belief ,, i would be a fool ,, but we were talking about the way that a man of a certain belief looks at others .

I dont feel I will ever fully understand this Jews vs Muslims beef, and neither will they I believe. It's like the Crips vs Bloods in Cali!!!!

Pumpkin Escobar wrote:I dont feel I will ever fully understand this Jews vs Muslims beef, and neither will they I believe. It's like the Crips vs Bloods in Cali!!!!

you will understand if you will witness the war that will take place between Muslims and Jews ( i reffer to Israel of course ,, not to indiviual jews ) .

but for now ,, i just to make it clear that ,, MUSLIMS DONT HATE JEWS FOR BEING JEWS , NOR DO THEY HATE CHRISTIANS FOR BEING CHRISTIANS .

our problem with Jews is coz the land they occupied ,,and if those who occupied Palastine were hindus or buddists , we would have the same problem with them.

its said in Quraan : oh believers ( Muslims) , you will find that the closest people to you are christians ,, and the most people that will hate you and cause you harm are Jews .

it will be eternal ma friend .

Pumpkin Escobar wrote:I dont feel I will ever fully understand this Jews vs Muslims beef, and neither will they I believe. It's like the Crips vs Bloods in Cali!!!!

you will understand if you will witness the war that will take place between Muslims and Jews ( i reffer to Israel of course ,, not to indiviual jews ) .

but for now ,, i just to make it clear that ,, MUSLIMS DONT HATE JEWS FOR BEING JEWS , NOR DO THEY HATE CHRISTIANS FOR BEING CHRISTIANS .

our problem with Jews is coz the land they occupied ,,and if those who occupied Palastine were hindus or buddists , we would have the same problem with them.

its said in Quraan : oh believers ( Muslims) , you will find that the closest people to you are christians ,, and the most people that will hate you and cause you harm are Jews .

it will be eternal ma friend .

Pumpkin Escobar wrote:I dont feel I will ever fully understand this Jews vs Muslims beef, and neither will they I believe. It's like the Crips vs Bloods in Cali!!!!

you will understand if you will witness the war that will take place between Muslims and Jews ( i reffer to Israel of course ,, not to indiviual jews ) .

but for now ,, i just to make it clear that ,, MUSLIMS DONT HATE JEWS FOR BEING JEWS , NOR DO THEY HATE CHRISTIANS FOR BEING CHRISTIANS .

our problem with Jews is coz the land they occupied ,,and if those who occupied Palastine were hindus or buddists , we would have the same problem with them.

its said in Quraan : oh believers ( Muslims) , you will find that the closest people to you are christians ,, and the most people that will hate you and cause you harm are Jews .

it will be eternal ma friend .

Uhhhhh thanks......3 times

Pumpkin Escobar wrote:Uhhhhh thanks......3 times

why ....... 3 times ?????? !!!!!!!!!

Your post in this thread was done three times that why

hey thats a good thought !!! pump esco !!!! .. it has really been a mystery to me .. on why cant jews and muslim ... live side by side in harmony?? and we christians and muslim ... can ??? why ???? pls somebody enlighten me


ofcourse .. this line of questioning meant no disrespect for any relegion mentioned ... for this questions reason is only to know ... why ....

As castellano anwered before the summarized reason is not that Muslim and Jew cannot live in harmony.... We have lived in harmony for many many centuries (for thousands of years even).... The Prophet Mohammed had Jewish neighbors who he respected and helped. The Muslims of Morocco helped the Jews escape persecution in Spain during the inquisition. The Muslims of the Levant sheltered Jews during the crusades. The Muslims of the then Arab colony of Sicily protected the Jews when the Christian Italians from the north conquered Sicily....

Our problem is with Israel and the Zionist movement. The Zionists were behind the cursed Balfour Declaration and then they swarmed in and stole Arab land through that pretext (1948 they decided to create an artificial nation on Arab Palestine) and again in later years through warfare (1967 they started). Before Israel and Zionism, Muslims and Jews lived in harmony in Palestine.

So the issue is not Muslim vs. Jew. Its the Arab Nation vs. Israel. Arabs are Muslim, Christian, and yes even some are Jewish. They are all against the Zionist movement and are part of the battle for equality and fairness in the Levant.

Liban wrote:Your post in this thread was done three times that why

daaaaaaamn ,, you are right ,, i dont know how did it happen !!!!!!!!!!

Liban wrote:As castellano anwered before the summarized reason is not that Muslim and Jew cannot live in harmony.... We have lived in harmony for many many centuries (for thousands of years even).... The Prophet Mohammed had Jewish neighbors who he respected and helped. The Muslims of Morocco helped the Jews escape persecution in Spain during the inquisition. The Muslims of the Levant sheltered Jews during the crusades. The Muslims of the then Arab colony of Sicily protected the Jews when the Christian Italians from the north conquered Sicily....

Our problem is with Israel and the Zionist movement. The Zionists were behind the cursed Balfour Declaration and then they swarmed in and stole Arab land through that pretext (1948 they decided to create an artificial nation on Arab Palestine) and again in later years through warfare (1967 they started). Before Israel and Zionism, Muslims and Jews lived in harmony in Palestine.

So the issue is not Muslim vs. Jew. Its the Arab Nation vs. Israel. Arabs are Muslim, Christian, and yes even some are Jewish. They are all against the Zionist movement and are part of the battle for equality and fairness in the Levant.

but why is it when i get into a conversation with local friends .. of mine and the word jew come in play .... bam !!!!! they manage to sum up all the understandable to my ear.. arabic curse they can come up with ....

but then again ... your explanation makes whole lot of sense though .... i just guessed that the reason israel being all jews ... gives that "hate the jews thing " for the new blood arabs ... but the real hate started out between two nations ... not two religions ... ok ... goood !!! my question aswered ... thanks liban !!!

Glad to be of service

Once again I would like to thank you all for your honesty.
I would also like to apologise for being harsh with my words.
It was not my intention..I don;t know what happened.
I only have a few minutes at work to type the things I said so that could be one of the reason. Thou its not a good excuse.

I apologise.

If you "ignore" the harsh words I used, the geez of what I said is what I will say again. But in a nicer way.
The biggest mistake I made is to talk about the Quran from a Christian perspective to a Muslim/s. This is like the first and most devastating error I did from the beginning.
But I don't really know how to ask what I wanted to ask about the Quran.
Just like how you'd compare which detergent to buy by putting them both to the toughest stains. Hence the "rude" comparison of the 2 scriptures.

And as for similarities between the Bible and the Quran....
What I am trying to say is this:
If Jesus did not die on the cross, then Christianity is meaningless. We might as well throw the book away and continue with our sinful life because there is nothing we can do to reconcile with God.
So to say that Jesus didn't die on the cross is like burning our Bible in public...so to speak. Although burning the book doesn't really mean anything to a Christian. Its only a book, but you can never "burn away" the Words.

I see we have more people talking about tscriptures here, so,...can we start afresh?
Lets all be nice (or rather..I be nice) and discuss what is our main topic here.

As for the earlier questions, I do not have special likes or dislikes for any race. I love them all. The ancient Jews are the one that crucified Jesus. Many still do not believe He is the Son of God. But the Bible says there will be special events for the Jews in the last days. One for example is the return of Elisha and Moses (The very same ones)at the temple speaking of the Gospel in detail. We all look forward to that day.

So sorry for my harsh words friends, truely am. Forgive this stupid old man and start afresh.

PEACE!

God told us that Jesus was not cruxified. It was a person who God made everyone think it was Jesus. He did that in order to make the Jews feel like dirt for their actions towards His prophet.

Jesus was ascended into the heavens by "the hand of God" and is in the Kindgom of Heaven waiting till Judgement Day when he will descend with the arch-angel Gabriel and the other angels to test our faith... The dead will walk the Earth that day and no stone wil be left unturned.

Why do you say give up Christianity because you cannot reconcile with God??? Why do you say that if you are not a Christian you live in sin?? You do not need to be a Christian to reconcile with God and not live in sin. Islam helps all men reconcile with their Master. Obeying God's commands (basically as per the Five Pillars) as laid out in the Quran leads us to salvation and not to sin.

PS - The end of days is here. We are living in the begining of what has been prophecised (sp?).

I said that because in the bible it says this:

"The wages of sin is death."

Meaning to pay for your sin, you must die and be forsakened by God.

There is no other way except the unleash of the wrath of God at full blast.
Whoever gets it...is done for. For good. Except of course, Jesus.
Because He was not just man. But God who came down as man to take upon Himself the sins of the world. So says the bible.
So , for a Christian. If Jesus did not suffer and die and paid for our sins, that means all Christians will face THAT fate. The fate of death and forsakened by God for eternity. Thats the truth in the Bible.
For it says that God is just. And there is no other way around it but pay the price.
Just like when you kill someone and go to court. Its no use admitting that you have done wrong and beg for forgiveness. Because in the end, you still have to face the execution. That is what "being judged" is about.
For all have sin and have fallen short of the glory of God. Without JEsus's death and ressurrection, there is no gospel for the Christians..there is no such word as "Christianity" for that matter if its not this way.
The word "Christian" simply means "little Christs'" or " to be like Christ"
Thats whats in the Holy Bible.

Peace and God Bless.

abs wrote:I said that because in the bible it says this:

"The wages of sin is death."

Meaning to pay for your sin, you must die and be forsakened by God.

There is no other way except the unleash of the wrath of God at full blast.
Whoever gets it...is done for. For good. Except of course, Jesus.
Because He was not just man. But God who came down as man to take upon Himself the sins of the world. So says the bible.
So , for a Christian. If Jesus did not suffer and die and paid for our sins, that means all Christians will face THAT fate. The fate of death and forsakened by God for eternity. Thats the truth in the Bible.
For it says that God is just. And there is no other way around it but pay the price.
Just like when you kill someone and go to court. Its no use admitting that you have done wrong and beg for forgiveness. Because in the end, you still have to face the execution. That is what "being judged" is about.
For all have sin and have fallen short of the glory of God. Without JEsus's death and ressurrection, there is no gospel for the Christians..there is no such word as "Christianity" for that matter if its not this way.
The word "Christian" simply means "little Christs'" or " to be like Christ"
Thats whats in the Holy Bible.

Peace and God Bless.

and dude sorry if i had cursed you in the other forum... but see ... i never consider my self a real christian fanatic ... atleast i had the desency to respect and choose my vocabulary sets on such topics ... i know that you just wanted them to understand ... but remember what jesus said when someone trow stones ... trow bread .... but with your statements man your bread gut fckuing brick fillings !!!! hahahahahah anyway .. peace man .., and keep the agumentative tone down man !!!! ayt seya guys ... btw those where good sets of discussions ........