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shafique wrote:Well, if the God is the same, His attributes will be the same.

God of Muhammad, pbuh, is Rahman - the one who loves all creation. I know you want to deny this attribute - but Kung clearly shows that his conclusion is that the God of Muhammad is the same God of Jesus and Moses.

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The question for you is why you want to continue to believe Craig over Kung (i.e. live in the past)?

event horizon wrote:So, does that mean the attribues that Dawkins ascribes to the God of the OT apply to the god of the Koran?

event horizon wrote:So it doesn't say that allah loves disbelievers/sinners.

Of course, the Koran can't say that because it would be a contradiction in light of all the passages in the Koran where allah explicitly says that he does not love disbelievers/sinners.

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But may a Christian assert that Muhammad was a prophet? Christians, if they pause to survey the situation, must admit the following (especially in light of the Hebrew Bible):

Like the prophets of Israel, Muhammad did not function by reason of an office assigned to him by the community (or its authorities), but by reason of a special personal relationship with God.

Like the prophets of Israel, Muhammad was a person of strong will who felt himself fully imbued with a godly calling, fully consumed, exclusively appointed to his task.

Like the prophets of Israel, Muhammad spoke to the heart of a religious and social crisis, and with his passionate piety and revolutionary proclamation he opposed the wealthy ruling class and the tradition it was trying to preserve.

Like the prophets of Israel, Muhammad, who mostly called himself the “Warner”, sought to be nothing but the verbal instrument of God and to proclaim not his own, but God’s word.

Like the prophets of Israel, Muhammad untiringly proclaimed the one God who tolerates no other gods and who is at the same time the good Creator and merciful Judge.

Like the prophets of Israel, Muhammad required, as a response to this one God, unconditional obedience, devotion, submission, which is the literal meaning of word Islam: everything that includes gratitude to God and generosity toward fellow human beings.

Like the prophets of Israel, Muhammad combined monotheism with humanism or human values, belief in the one God and God’s judgment with a call to social justice, and a threat to the unjust, who go to hell, with promises to the just, who are gathered into God’s paradise.
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I think for the peoples of Arabia Muhammad’s prophecy led to tremendous progress. Whatever we Christians do with this fact, we must affirm that he acted as a prophet and that he was a prophet. I do not see how we can avoid the conclusion that on their way of salvation, Muslims follow a prophet who is decisive for them.

shafique wrote:You are the only one here with tali-tubby views who think it is ok to enslave virgins for one's use, after slaughtering their families in cold blood - as long as you are an Israelite and you think God wants you to do it.

shafique wrote:
Interesting interpretation. Have you or Craig persuaded anyone else of this quaint view?

God whilst loving all creation also diapproves of acts that hurt his creations. A mother will tell a child that she will not like children who misbehave or play with fire - ultimately to prevent them from hurting thmselves.

shafique wrote:I disagree with you and Craig - and agree with Kung that God is the same and that He loves all creation I including sinners.

If God is the same, then His attributes did not change from when Jesus was praying to God to when Muhammad did the same.

God whilst loving all creation also diapproves of acts that hurt his creations. A mother will tell a child that she will not like children who misbehave or play with fire - ultimately to prevent them from hurting thmselves.

God says in the first verse of the Quran that He loves all creation - this is His attribute of Rahman.

QED

Shafique