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Just been chatting to one of my friends online, who's told me that in Washington, people with placards showing the Burj Dubai and the Palm Islands and the workers were prtesting in the street.

He tried to send me some links, but of course they were all blocked.

But how funny! Man this place needs some humiliation to go straight.

The people working here as labourers should feel lucky. In the US, they'd be whipped off to Guantanimo and never get a hint of freedom again.

Guantanimo a free orange jump suit and free food it works well !

The US is the last country on earth to be protesting on human rights of other countries right now.

There was an article about Dubai in Vanity Fair a couple of months ago. After gushing about the architecture and wealth, it said one of the reasons for it was cheap labour-- the guest worker program was akin to slavery, I wonder if that started the protest ball rolling.


It doesn't make any of it fair or just, but the UAE guest worker system doesn't seem to be much different from the plight of the fruit pickers in California and Florida, or the clean up crews working in the New Orleans area. I'm kinda surprised there was a protest in DC for it, cause it isn't like Dubai is a big destination for Americas. It's like a 14/16/? hour flight from NYC...

holly wrote:There was an article about Dubai in Vanity Fair a couple of months ago. After gushing about the architecture and wealth, it said one of the reasons for it was cheap labour-- the guest worker program was akin to slavery, I wonder if that started the protest ball rolling.


It doesn't make any of it fair or just, but the UAE guest worker system doesn't seem to be much different from the plight of the fruit pickers in California and Florida, or the clean up crews working in the New Orleans area. I'm kinda surprised there was a protest in DC for it, cause it isn't like Dubai is a big destination for Americas. It's like a 14/16/? hour flight from NYC...

one word jeolous........ duabi was unknown to most of the ppl until that port deal and some good things like emirates world's largest scraper

Wow, you know what I hate to say it, but some of you guys are unbelievable!

Yes, of course there is immigrant workers in most countries, getting less than the minimum wage, however I doubt to such a scale that there is in the UAE.

I am really, really surprised that after other threads where everyone condems the way the workers are treated you turn around around and go 'oh well big deal'.

I suspect had the protests been in any other country apart from the US, you wouldn't have slammed them. Man, even when people there try and do something right for a change, you're still not bloody happy, which only proves to me that some people will be biased against another people no matter what they do - pretty sad really!

Chocoholic wrote:Wow, you know what I hate to say it, but some of you guys are unbelievable!

I'm not sure why you would say that. It's one thing to lobby in support of migrant workers in another country, it's another if there is an ulterior motive. It's no secret that DP World have launched their bid to buy some US ports and this is no more than organised lobbying by interest groups within the US.

Yes, of course there is immigrant workers in most countries, getting less than the minimum wage, however I doubt to such a scale that there is in the UAE.

I would hazard to guess that Nike and Walmart combined directly or indirectly employ labour in China, The Phillipines and Mexico at similar or lower rates of pay than many labourers are paid in Dubai.

I personally have travelled to factories in China and maquiladoras in Mexico and seen the impoverished conditions and extremely low wages these people who work in these manufacturing plants are paid. The lobby groups do not make nearly the noise they should about this, simply because it means they get access to cheap textiles and consumer electronics, or in US Congress terms, it is in support of the American Way of Life.

I am really, really surprised that after other threads where everyone condems the way the workers are treated you turn around around and go 'oh well big deal'.

I think many question the motivation of the protests or at least I do. US lobbying works in strange ways.

I suspect had the protests been in any other country apart from the US, you wouldn't have slammed them.

I would be less suspicious of the reasoning behind the protest. Let's face it, the average US citizen knows almost zero about Dubai except that it's a muslim state, it's somewhere in the middle east, and it wants to buy their ports which a lot think is an issue of national security. All this in spite of the fact that the UAE is an ally of the US.

Added to that, the US directly or indirectly exploits many 3rd world countries to sustain it's "way of life" in many sectors, and it's civil rights record is one to be questioned severely.

I will reiterate, this is pure lobbying to give Dubai a bad image ahead of future DP World negotations. Lobby groups in the USA are VERY well organised.

Man, even when people there try and do something right for a change, you're still not bloody happy, which only proves to me that some people will be biased against another people no matter what they do - pretty sad really!

It's the motive behind the action that is brought into question. This isn't a conspiracy theory, any mass demonstration in Washington can always be relied on to be the work of lobbyists and with some poor saps being manipulated for economic cause when they think they're doing something altruistic.

The best way for the workers to improve their lot is to stop coming. Refuse to work for such low wages and in poor conditions. Help themselves. Of course in the process you forget a few things:

(1) In their minds, it's better to be working in crappy conditions here than not working in their home country at all.
(2) The money they make here is better than they make at home. The average wage in India is still quite low, and even 1000 dh a month puts them way ahead.
(3) They think of it as not being forever, but a get in get out deal (like the rest of us?) when they will return home with more money than before.

So whilst it might make you feel better personally that they're not being exploited, from their point of view, they're better off. No, I'm not condoning exploitation, but you might find substantial resistance to your cause from those that are being exploited, simply because they survive on the idea that the money they make will put them and their families in a better situation.

A couple of papers did a story no it and it went from that, that's it, no alterior motive nothing, just a group of people standing up for others.

Once again the conspiracy theorists coming out of the wood work.

Sorry I said anything, I just thought it was nice to see some people actually doing something to raise the plight of some others.

If it makes you feel better to see a bad thing behind it, then thatr's pretty sad.

Chocoholic wrote:Wow, you know what I hate to say it, but some of you guys are unbelievable!

Yes, of course there is immigrant workers in most countries, getting less than the minimum wage, however I doubt to such a scale that there is in the UAE.

I am really, really surprised that after other threads where everyone condems the way the workers are treated you turn around around and go 'oh well big deal'.

I suspect had the protests been in any other country apart from the US, you wouldn't have slammed them. Man, even when people there try and do something right for a change, you're still not bloody happy, which only proves to me that some people will be biased against another people no matter what they do - pretty sad really!

Amen!

Call me strange, but I will always try and see the good in people first.

Ian and previous postees makes some very good points...

One also has to consider that the US is a country of at least 297 million people with an illegal-status workforce numbering in the tens of millions - a great many under the radar of worker-protection laws. Human trafficking, below-minimum wages and worker exploitation in the US is a lot more prevalent than one might think. The huge numbers of laborers alone make it a far worse problem in the US than in Dubai (The UAE has a population of around 3 million people! There's no comparison really..). At least in Dubai there is an opportunity of nipping the worker exploitation problem or at least getting it under control, since the population is still small (compared to other countries) and since the government seems to have a tighter control on who enters to do business.

There is comparison Freza, because the population numbers might be very different but I think you'll find the percentage of immigrant workers in the UAE far higher! Remember 80% of the population here is expat! Not local!

Hmmm.

I've just read this thread for the first time - up to Chocs post above.

Before Ian's long post above, I was thinking along the line of 'Choc' - i.e. "why the skepticism - Americans protesting against injustices in the UAE is a good thing, loads of good guys in the US after all'.

Then Ian's raised other points, which has me thinking -hmmm. (But bear with me, I make up my mind at the end of the post..yes, I came back and wrote this bit )

Therefore, I'm not sure what to think now. Protesting against slave labour conditions is something I commend, bad working conditions can't be condoned - many firms pay a fair (but low by European standards) wage and have good conditions, and do not have excessively high prices.

Now, if the protests actually had an ulterior motive behind them - then the question is whether this negates the need for the protest?

It makes the protest hypocritical perhaps - but at the end of the day if the protests are against things that are actually happening, then we should support the protest and highlight the other injustices as well.

People are free to choose what to protest against, in my view.

I'm against animal cruelty, for example, but would not go and protest against this whilst there are children starving around the world, or people are dying from unjust occupations/wars etc. My personal (limited) efforts will be directed to helping people - that is my choice - and does not mean those actively pursuing animal rights are wrong, that's their choice.

Anyway, enough with the rambling - I think I've made up my mind whilst typing this post.... protests highlighting actual unjust practices in the UAE are a good thing, regardless of motivation. I therefore support the protests as long as they are based on actual injustices.

Cheers,
Shafique

Chocoholic wrote:Call me strange, but I will always try and see the good in people first.

Call me strange, but I think people should get their own house in order first before criticising others.

Thanks for labelling me a conspiracy theorist too. I did go out of my way to point out specific real-world actual examples, and I feel somewhat mothballed by the label.

Chocoholic wrote:There is comparison Freza, because the population numbers might be very different but I think you'll find the percentage of immigrant workers in the UAE far higher! Remember 80% of the population here is expat! Not local!

Yes, expats are more numerous than locals but how many of those expats are actually being exploited? If you have some data on this please share with us. Also, can you provide a link to the story of this protest.

If you go back and read my original post, you'll see I said that the links my friend gave me don't work because they're blocked - surprise surprise, because of course once again we can't have negative media about this place now can we?

He's trying to cut and paste the stories for me. It happened a couple of weeks ago in Washington.

Immigrant workers make up 90% of the private sector work force.

Doesn't it bother you that in the first few months of this year more woerkers committed suicide because of their situations than the whole of last year - now that's a problem!

(Don't you use a proxy?)

We're talking about immigrant exploitation not just expat labor. I asked you to share any data that you might have on slave labor specifically... but it's ok.

Of course human tragedy of this type does bother me but it should bother the government even more. I do think that exposing the problems will force the government to take tougher actions against inhumane employers. I personally think that it's kinda weird if not humorous (and suspect) that this type of protest took place in the US of all places though. I do agree with Shafique - protesting exploitation is a good thing no matter what or who. But the points that Maaad, holly, sniper, and Ian make are valid and worthy of consideration too... that's all...

Freza, I do not have the luxury of time to go searching for facts and figures for you.

There's a thing called Google - knock yourself out.

But what I would say is that any figures would be distorted as of course many of the workers who're being exploited will not admit to it, for fear of being kicked out the country.

I think that some of you are assuming that these same Americans protesting about workers rights in the UAE don't protest about worker's rights in other countries including their own. Why would you assume that?

I belong to another community that is all about human rights, environment and animal welfare and there is a huge group of people involved in petitions, marches and other kinds of campaigns to bring awareness about injustices around the world. I don't write these people off as hypocrits because many of them are American. I just appreciate the work that they do and treat them like anyone else coming from any other country in the world.

Chocoholic wrote:Freza, I do not have the luxury of time to go searching for facts and figures for you.

There's a thing called Google - knock yourself out.

But what I would say is that any figures would be distorted as of course many of the workers who're being exploited will not admit to it, for fear of being kicked out the country.

sorry, I didn't intend to sound as if I was asking for this data for myself. I was only suggesting that you back up your statement below with actual figures:

"Yes, of course there is immigrant workers in most countries, getting less than the minimum wage, however I doubt to such a scale that there is in the UAE."

Well, if you are going to pull some stats ladies, don't forget to factor in the population of the countries you are comparing. The US has a population of about 298 million. The UAE has a population of about 3,48 million.

I am grateful that some people are willing to protest in order to bring certain issues up for discussion (regarless of the intial motive). These people serve a purpose and a public service to those less able to do it (slave labor, around the world, etc.). They can protest without a fear of retribution from the goverment.

I forget who above made mention of Walmart and other stores. I wonder whether this person knows this from independent facts but from the propest by those horrible Americans.

By the way that the protest happenned in Washington does not mean that the protester where american as there is no citizenship requirement to protest in the USA.

I would love to see what would happen to protesters in front of Abu Dhabi goverment builinds and Sheik Mo's palace(s) in Dubai.

In fact anyone on the forum concerned about the USA's unfair labor practices of immigrants or workers in the USA should go an protest in front of the USA consulate and embassies in UAE. I will make the contacts with CNN - and it will take them 5 minutes to get there once the protest starts. I suspect the attendance will be "Zero"!

I can't remember the last time I saw any report about protests in the middle east about working conditions in the USA or any othe country for that matter. No wait, I remember: never!

There was a protest in Media City by people upset at the bombing of Lebanon by the Israelis. The police broke it up immediately.

kanelli wrote:There was a protest in Media City by people upset at the bombing of Lebanon by the Israelis. The police broke it up immediately.

And this was a protest about killing mainly muslims. I suppose if the protest was againt slave labor the protesters would get life in prison!

I can't speculate about that. When labourers and taxi drivers and company personnel have held strikes here the police have been involved, people have been fired and deported. In this country, you can't freely protest because they are afraid it will turn violent and they will lose control.

Concord wrote:I forget who above made mention of Walmart and other stores. I wonder whether this person knows this from independent facts but from the propest by those horrible Americans.

I have been to many factories in China and Mexico that produce items for Walmart and many other US countries. 100% US owned countries I might add.

The workers in China when I was there were paid between $25 & $50 US a week, and this was considered a lot of money. The people at the Thomson RCA factory in Mexico were slightly better of, they got $30 to $90 a week depending on the shifts they worked. Some worked 20 hour days.

Oddly enough, when I returned to Australia and was finishing my degree I had to do a case study for a HR subject on the very same factory I visited.

As I said, people should get their own house in order before criticising others. And the motive is always important Concs, because there's a big difference between altruism and egoism.

Ian, did you just happen to stop by? Was it on a tour guide? Where you investigating something? Confirming something? or just decided out of the blue to visit these countries and their factories?

I think these protests are great. It's good to see people taking an interest in what's happening across the globe and raising awareness. However, I don't think that these protests are going to affect their salaries very much. Personally, I would rather protest against their safety and living conditions as I feel these are much more concerning issues.

I think the issue of long hours and little pay is an important one and I am truly amazed at how these guys can make ends meet but as Ian has said, part of it does come down to how they value the money that they are receiving. I am sure there are many people who do a lot less work than I do for 10 times my salary but it's all in perspective.

What would interest me is if such protests took place within impoverished areas in India. Would this affect the number of migrants from India to the UAE to work as labourers?

Concord wrote:Ian, did you just happen to stop by? Was it on a tour guide? Where you investigating something? Confirming something? or just decided out of the blue to visit these countries and their factories?

I was assessing suitable manufacturers in China for the production of consumer electronics devices and accessories (including CD bags / textiles).

The Mexico experience was part of a partnership we were seeking with Thomson RCA at the time.

Edit: I had the most aweful dream and woke up. Perhaps some people sent some mental daggers my way for my view on this subject.