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Good for CSIS and the police. These a.s.sholes ordered and received three tonnes of ammonium nitrate, which is used to make potent bombs. What a bunch of losers - they want to emulate Al Qaeda, so try to plan terrorism on Canadians. We are not part of the coalition forces in Iraq, and our troops in Afghanistan are necessary to combat Taleban and warlord activities so that the people can rebuild their lives in the country. Shame on those fools for trying to use the death and maiming of innocent Canadians to make themselves feel like they are doing something meaningful with their lives. Total losers. I mean, our aboriginal peoples don't even commit terrorist acts in the country, and they would have more cause than these guys!

If they are found guilty they should be jailed, then stripped of their residence permits or citizenship and deported back to their home countries. (Unless they were born and raised in Canada and have citizenship from the start, of course.)

More on the story here, including the names of most of those arrested:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdnse ... sweep.html

How can you order that much ammonium nitrate and get it, in Canada?

Good question! Apparently it isn't produced in Canada anymore, but some industries still use it - like the auto industry for deploying airbags etc. These guys are pretty idiotic because making such a large order is probably how they were noticed. Guess we'll have to see what the investigation finds.

yeah I read something about this on CNN.com

I don't even want to imagine what they were planning to do with this ****...

It could have been the airport, subway, CN Tower, Queen's Park, some Jewish neighbourhoods, or the Pickering nuclear power plant

Nothing can justify killing innocent lives. However, you have to question the motives behind these terrorists. Why do these people commit these acts? Do you really think they get a kick out of blowing themselves up and killing innocent bystanders?

I point this out because us majority of muslims around the world get stereotyped due to such acts of the few.

^ yup

Just shows how ignorant ppl can be. Heck you know what I was asked when I first went to the US? (3 yrs ago to do my MS in L.A.)

So here is an EXACT transcript of my conversation with the immigration officer:

moron: So you're Lebanese?
Me: um, yes (the idiot was holding my passport. Just seemed like a dumb question. Oh well...)
moron: Have you ever been to a Hizbullah meeting?
Me: (double you tee eff) No!
moron: have you ever been to Saudi Arabia?
Me: No (getting tired. This was after a 26 hours trip from Lebanon to L.A., including waiting 5 hours in Amsterdam for my next plane to L.A.)
moron: hmm... Alright what I really want to know is whether you're a Muslim or not.
Me: I am Christian but might I ask what this have to do with anything?
moron: don't worry about it. Here's your passport. Go to this guy to have your picture and fingerprints taken. Have a good day.

This was only one example of people thinking that all Arabs are Muslims, and of course all this based on the fact that these ignorant fools think Islam and Terrorism are synonyms... I would give anything to know what would've happened if I had been Muslim...

When they ask if you are Muslim and then if you were to get bad treatment, it serves no purpose for the Americans to spend million to find out "Why do they hate us?"....

Kanelli,

Yes, this is horrible, and I agree with you that nothing justifies these acts of terror.

We need to address 3 issues simultaneously:

1) fighting terrorism

2) fighting the stereotypical image terrorism causes for Muslims. When you mentioned possible targets, you said "some jewish neighborhoods". Thereby, you are picturing Jews as being always the victim and Muslims as always the ones who terrorise them. Well, demolishing homes by an official army is also terrorism.

3) fighting injustice. Example: the american troops enter a home in Haditha, killing old men and women, as well as children and toddlers with guns and hand-granades. Then, we hear a CNN reporter justifying this by saying these troops see so many dangers that they just "snapped". No, no, no ..we need to acknowledge that these aer also acts of terrorism that we need to fight.

In short, it is all 3 issues (including the first one) that we need to fight. Fighting only the first issue wouldn't solve the problem.

Word.

and i am sure Kanelli will agree with you.

kanelli wrote:Good for CSIS and the police. These a.s.sholes ordered and received three tonnes of ammonium nitrate, which is used to make potent bombs. What a bunch of losers - they want to emulate Al Qaeda, so try to plan terrorism on Canadians. We are not part of the coalition forces in Iraq, and our troops in Afghanistan are necessary to combat Taleban and warlord activities so that the people can rebuild their lives in the country. Shame on those fools for trying to use the death and maiming of innocent Canadians to make themselves feel like they are doing something meaningful with their lives. Total losers. I mean, our aboriginal peoples don't even commit terrorist acts in the country, and they would have more cause than these guys!

If they are found guilty they should be jailed, then stripped of their residence permits or citizenship and deported back to their home countries. (Unless they were born and raised in Canada and have citizenship from the start, of course.)

More on the story here, including the names of most of those arrested:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/cdnse ... sweep.html

What is the point of putting them on trail if you already convicted them in the media?

Also isn't ammonium nitrate used in farming, maybe these man were planning to farm...or are Muslims not allowed to open up a Farm.. Don't get me wrong if they are guilty of this plot without a shadow of doubt..fry their asses or do as you wish. The way I see it is that these guys if they are guilty have disrespected, backstapped a country that welcomed them by plotting to kill fellow citizens. If they really were concerned about the muslims in Afghanistian being oppressed than they should have gone to Afghanistan and fight for their, instead of plotting against a very good host who has allowed you to practise your religion and culture...has protected your rights. They should have thought about the muslim community in Canada, the same way fools who committed the London bombing should have thought about the muslim community in London.

About Afghanistan...I think the citizens are starting to turn against the so-called coalition and the incombatent puppet Hamed Karzai, this is evident from the incident were American soliders shot at Afghanie protestars, killing 8 protesters. The taliban is not only making come back, but more Afghans are joining the Talibans...because Hamed Karzai has proven to be drunk, fraud and thief. While his people are dying of poverty Hamed Karzai has enriched himself with the aid intended for his people and rebuilding the country...He has basically sold his country to the highest bidder and the money he has recieved he has only enriched himself and view other warlords supporting him. On the other hand the actions of the Taliban when they were in power can't be defended and I won't try to defend it. The Talibans suppressed the right of their citizens, while the regime occuppiers put in place..Hamed Karzai...ignored the promises they have made to their citizens...the wealth intended to rebuild the country was used to enrich view politicians and the rest of the population is ignored. This is allot like South America, especially Columbia were US has been supporting view rich elites for 40 years to hold on power at the cost of the majority poor people in Columbia...and who ever fights for the poor is labelled terrorist or drug dealers...case in point the FARQ whose actions are as much terroristic as the government whom uses Ex Soliders to slaughter the poor.

Kanelli the wisest thing Canada could do in Afghanistan is either go home or remove puppet Hamed Karzai and give the Afghanese more combatent leader, instead of leader that does the bidding of Western Powers. I believe everyday that goes by that Karzai is in Power the more Afghans will join the Taliban...

So sad, but expected. A local mosque had its windows broken by some ignorant people who now blame the Muslim community for the extremists.

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national ... lized.html

I agree that the roots of extremism need to be identified and rectified. It does seem though that some are using any excuse to give meaning to their lives - even if that means blowing themselves up. Did you notice that 5 of the youth arrested are under 17 so cannot be named? This wreaks of corrupting adult influence to me. Canada is not oppressing Muslim countries and Canadian foreign policy has been conservative compared to many other countries. I just can't understand why some Canadians would want to kill other Canadians. I doubt these guys even penned a letter to the government about pulling troops out of Afghanistan (if that was their beef) - they would rather just secretly plan attacks to kill people, become a martyr and become famous for their murderous actions. Sad and pathetic people!

You don't see me sitting here saying that Timothy McVeigh must have had a good reason to bomb a building. I don't justify sick acts by terrorists and I find it insulting when other people do.

Do any of us know what it is like to be afraid every day and watch people get killed all around us? Your body is full of adrenaline because every place you walk, eat, sleep and try to relax in is a hazard. I think the murdering of civilians in Iraq is a disgrace, and I don't rule out the fact that some of these soldier snap and would not kill innocent civilians under more normal circumstances. It has been documented in other wars as well, and it isn't only Americans who snap. Please don't compare soldiers in a war setting to a bunch of Canadian extremist Muslim youth and adults who have a cushy life (in comparison) - going to school and work by day, and allegedly hatching bomb plots on their own country by night. It is interesting that some of you only mention coalition soldiers as being "terrorisors" in Iraq (in other previous threads), but you don't call the insurgents from outside of Iraq "terrorisors" when they blow up marketplaces and police stations, and assassinate government officials - all of which result in the death of innocent people.

Lionheart, if you read anything on the arrests you will see that those men were not planning to do any farming. They found bomb making equipment and at least one bomb with a cell phone triggering device. There is also other undisclosed evidence.

Lionheart, sure let's pull all the coalition forces out of Afghanistan and Iraq - let all the warlords, fanatical groups and religious sects kill each other off without being able to blame the "West" - although they likely will anyway. Let Palestine and Israel go at it as well. It seems many groups are itching for blood and power in all of those countries - so maybe the world should stand back and let all the different groups battle it out. How does that sound?

Lionheart wrote:

kanelli wrote:If they are found guilty they should be jailed, then stripped of their residence permits or citizenship and deported back to their home countries. (Unless they were born and raised in Canada and have citizenship from the start, of course.)

What is the point of putting them on trail if you already convicted them in the media?

I said IF they are found guilty. The news report only stated the facts of the arrests, it did not say they are guilty. My response in the thread were comments on what I thought about the issue, and at the end I said what I think should happen to them IF they are found guilty.

"Lionheart, sure let's pull all the coalition forces out of Afghanistan and Iraq - let all the warlords, fanatical groups and religious sects kill each other off without being able to blame the "West" - although they likely will anyway. Let Palestine and Israel go at it as well. It seems many groups are itching for blood and power in all of those countries - so maybe the world should stand back and let all the different groups battle it out. How does that sound? "


Kanelli Why do you assume only West could police the World?

You might not like it but Afghanistan had law and order before the Occuppiers came. Know we might not agree with the way Taliban ran the country...but one Taliban did was keep Afghanistan relatively peaceful for 4 years they were in Power.


Everything that is happen today in Iraq is The American and British occuppiers fault. Yes Iraq was ruled by dictator, but that dictator kept the country together..kept peace between the different sects and the different ethnic groups. What the occuppation of Iraq achieved is the the destruction of the country formerly known as Iraq and nothing more or less.

"Just as a man would not cherish living in a body other than his own, so do nations not like to live under other nations, however noble and great the latter may be. "
Mahatma Gandhi

Whats that saying?

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter.

I mean the Minute Men and the Haganah were considered terrorists but when they acheived their goals over the "legitimate powers" they became known as the US Army and the Israel Army.

This is not linked necessarly with Kanelli's post but rather an addendum of Lionheart's.

Lionheart wrote:"Lionheart, sure let's pull all the coalition forces out of Afghanistan and Iraq - let all the warlords, fanatical groups and religious sects kill each other off without being able to blame the "West" - although they likely will anyway. Let Palestine and Israel go at it as well. It seems many groups are itching for blood and power in all of those countries - so maybe the world should stand back and let all the different groups battle it out. How does that sound? "


Kanelli Why do you assume only West could police the World?

You might not like it but Afghanistan had law and order before the Occuppiers came. Know we might not agree with the way Taliban ran the country...but one Taliban did was keep Afghanistan relatively peaceful for 4 years they were in Power.


Everything that is happen today in Iraq is The American and British occuppiers fault. Yes Iraq was ruled by dictator, but that dictator kept the country together..kept peace between the different sects and the different ethnic groups. What the occuppation of Iraq achieved is the the destruction of the country formerly known as Iraq and nothing more or less.

"Just as a man would not cherish living in a body other than his own, so do nations not like to live under other nations, however noble and great the latter may be. "
Mahatma Gandhi

Actually, you are the one who is assuming - I never said that the West should police the world in all cases. Realistically, they have the money and power to do so. Maybe you think that no one should meddle in other countries' affairs, and that is fine. To you, perhaps some causes seem nobler than others. What do you think about countries harbouring major terrorist cells that run training camps and launch terrorism plots all around the world. I guess that should have been left to flourish. Armies also should have stayed out of former Yugoslavia, and Sudan, East Timor, Rwanda. Who has the right to meddle in other countries' affairs right? ... Its not a cut and dried issue is it Lionheart.

kanelli wrote: Armies also should have stayed out of former Yugoslavia, and Sudan, East Timor, Rwanda.

Not much was done to help Rwanda and Burundi so thats a bad example Kanelli.

Also in Yugoslavia and East Timor and Sudan the reactions were too late. After the massacres and genocides.

Only where there is oil and/or access to another region with oil does the world get all hot and heavy over things.

Liban wrote:

kanelli wrote: Armies also should have stayed out of former Yugoslavia, and Sudan, East Timor, Rwanda.

Not much was done to help Rwanda and Burundi so thats a bad example Kanelli.

Also in Yugoslavia and East Timor and Sudan the reactions were too late. After the massacres and genocides.

Only where there is oil and/or access to another region with oil does the world get all hot and heavy over things.

I agree, not much was done, but there was still action. If countries are supposed to stay out of each other's business, then why make any exceptions? Some people think intervention is good, some think it is bad, and some people couldn't care less about any country other than their own.

Liban, no comment on whether the US was justified to go into Afghanistan to destroy the Taleban and Al Qaeda after the 9/11 attacks?

kanelli wrote:
I agree, not much was done, but there was still action. If countries are supposed to stay out of each other's business, then why make any exceptions? Some people think intervention is good, some think it is bad, and some people couldn't care less about any country other than their own.

Liban, no comment on whether the US was justified to go into Afghanistan to destroy the Taleban and Al Qaeda after the 9/11 attacks?

Paragraph 1: OIL

Paragraph 2: The US should focus more on realizing that its policies created groups like Al Qaeda and the Taliban. Until then, its invasion of Afganistan is a band-aid solution.

Another article
Schoolkids to terror suspects
Trio underwent swift transformation from popular kids to devout, depressed
Jun. 5, 2006. 06:38 AM
MICHELLE SHEPHARD AND ISABEL TEOTONIO
STAFF REPORTERS
The Toronto Star

And another article that discusses blame for the creation of terrorists.

Article
From isolation can come rage
Jun. 5, 2006. 08:21 AM
ROSIE DIMANNO
The Toronto Star

kanelli wrote:Liban, no comment on whether the US was justified to go into Afghanistan to destroy the Taleban and Al Qaeda after the 9/11 attacks?

If I may here: no they are not justified!

They destroyed the whole country killing unknown number of civilians without accomplishing much to consider.

Would the US be justified in attacking Canada just because a gang from Toronto for example attacked the US? without presenting a good evidence to Canada which might hand-off or punish the perpetrators?

Why do we have the Interpol? there are other means of punishing countries.

The US, to this day, has not presented any concrete evidence against alqaeda other than a fabricated OBL video tape which is pathetic!

Attacking Afghanistan and Iraq was hatched way before 9/11 I know it, you know it and everybody knows it.

Iraq is completely different. I know that the reasons for going into Iraq were false. Going into Afghanistan was completely deserved. Al Qaeda and the Taleban should have been removed after the bomb attacks in Africa and the US. Enough is enough of that terrorism crap.

The ones who used false reasons to go to Iraq are capable of attacking any one for "any" reason.

I say it again, you can not attack a country just because few from that country attacked you.

You need to brush up on your politics, there are other reasons the US planned (way before 9/11) its war on Afghanistan and Iraq...in other words, the US was going into Afghanistan with or without 9/11...

Of course, all of the alleged 19 hijackers were Saudi (about 5 or 7 of them turned out alive) yet the US attacked Afghanistan and Iraq...you figure that out!

There is no way to end terrorism like that, you have to look at the root causes and remove them....unjustly attacking Iraq and killing thousands of innocent women and children is just another root cause added recently.....not you or the US is willing to frankly admit those causes and deal with them...ignorance and hypocrisy are a bliss I guess!

I was talking about Afghanistan, not Iraq. Yes, they were planning on going in before 9/11 because of the embassy bombings in Africa. The Taleban and Al Qaeda did not appear in Afghanistan the month before 9/11. How is my grasp on the facts now?

More arrests might happen in terrorism plot
http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national ... error.html

<The Taleban and Al Qaeda did not appear in Afghanistan the month before 9/11>

I'm not sure what you meant by the above!!!

As for possible more arrests in the Toronto plot, I don't know, I prefer to wait and see... it seems like a drug bust where the police will go undercover....a newspapers said the undercover RCMP officer actually supplied the 3 tones of ammonioum nitrate! so there's the source I was asking about! Investigation started in 2004 as per the paper.

Sorry Acebravo, I meant that Al Qaeda and the Taleban were operating in Afghanistan for a long time, they didn't just appear overnight before 9/11. My point was that they were a threat long before 9/11 and the subsequent coalition invasion.

Yes, it will be interesting to see the details. The ammonium nitrate delivered to the men was not real, it was a harmless substance. I don't know if the agents switched the chemical after being alerted to the purchase by the company, or the men made the purchase directly from the undercover agents who they thought worked for a company. Details will come I'm sure.

Ok thanks, but a threat to whom?

The honest answer is a threat to the US and israel.....why those 2 and not other countries....countries with better democracy and freedom than the US I might add?

There's alot of injustice done to Arabs and Muslims by the US and israel, unfortunately, this makes irrational young people to react in their own way...

Unless the root causes are admitted and dealt with, there will be terrorism til the end of time I'm afraid!

Kanelli If the US was interested in capturing Bin Laden they would hav had him back in 1996 when the Sudanese goverrnment offered to hand him over to Americans and the Saudi Royals, but both of them refused to except him and the Sudanese government asked him to leave. Again in Afghanistan the Taliban were willing to hand him over after Sep 11 if the US showed the evidence against Bin Laden...but America refused to show any evidence and attacked the Taliban and in the processes killing thousands of civilians, but failing to kill or capturing Bin Laden. About couple of months before Sep 11 the Bush administration invited the Taliban to Texas to do some business...know what I don't understand is why was the same administation that demonized the after Sep 11 inviting them to Texas to do business? If Taliban were soo bad than why were they doing business with them couple of months before Sep 11... and if they were capable of doing business with the Taliban couple months before Sep 11 than why couldn't they have given the Taliban the evidence against Bin Laden that the Taliban asked for. i also remember CNN did a documentary demonizing the Taliban a weak before the Sep 11.. know was that a coincidence or a tactic to prepare people for Sep 11..I don't know... But one thing we know is that Taliban offered Bin Laden to America if they provided the evidence against Bin Laden... and Bush adminstration as usual were not interested in apprehending, but rather invading and taking over Afghanistan..so they could fulfil the New World order his father spoke of back in 1992 and the redesigning the Map of Middle East Zoinist like Wolfiwitz, Pearl, Cheney and Rumbfield wanted to fulfil...So in theory it didn't really matter whether the Taliban handed over Bin Laden or not..because Bin Laden was not the administration concern.


"It's long been forgotten, but in the weeks immediately following 9/11, the Taliban government in Afghanistan actually offered to hand over bin Laden if the U.S. provided proof of his involvement in the terrorist attacks"

kanelli wrote:Sorry Acebravo, I meant that Al Qaeda and the Taleban were operating in Afghanistan for a long time, they didn't just appear overnight before 9/11. My point was that they were a threat long before 9/11 and the subsequent coalition invasion.

Yes, it will be interesting to see the details. The ammonium nitrate delivered to the men was not real, it was a harmless substance. I don't know if the agents switched the chemical after being alerted to the purchase by the company, or the men made the purchase directly from the undercover agents who they thought worked for a company. Details will come I'm sure.

Taliban were legitimate government that America business with before Sep 11...