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shafique

^Thanks DDS for quoting the allegory in full. The previous verses establish that this is a parable about Moses - and in it the companion can be considered an Angel of God (doing God's will and having knowledge of the future) or the whole episode is considered an allegorical spiritual journey that Mo...

shafique

One of the books on my 'must buy' list: http://www.amazon.com/Empires-Word-Language-History-World/dp/0066210860 Looks interesting and covers the subject of this thread. The subject matter and his insights look interesting, but the reviews also talk about it being quite dense and technical book. But ...

shafique

Have we got any examples of Muslim religious leaders using these stanzas to support people killing their children? I certainly quote you many instances of Muslim leaders re-emphasising that honour killings form no part of Islam (and even Pakistan has a law which makes it explicitly a crime - given ...

shafique

^blueshift - killing apostates is another innovation which has no Quranic basis, and has been discussed in other threads. We are now awaiting eh to produce examples of Muslim religious leaders who use the allegorical verses relating to Moses to justify the killing of rebellious children. From your e...

shafique

I'm surprised you've picked up clerics who are questioning who was behind the terrorist acts - the first person who came out to express these doubts was the President, Hosni Mubarak - and indeed looks to be the 'official' line of the Egyptian authorities: President Hosni Mubarak has urged Egypt's Mu...

shafique

Tim Murphy has produced a timeline of the Islamophobia in 2010 and the short intro below does point out the context (anti-Semitic attacks in USA are far worse than Islamophobic accounts - the Americans seem to attack Jews more than they physically attack Muslims). http://www.loonwatch.com/wp-content...

shafique

Al shafique you call a lot of things out of terrorism, why dont you start giving your definition of terrorism? Sure thing. I use this definition: Terrorism is the deliberate, negligent, or reckless use of force against noncombatants , by state or nonstate actors for ideological ends and in the abse...

shafique

Sorry, what was that?

Was that a resounding sound of silence when asked for a religious scholar that uses this verse to justify killing of rebellious children????

All mouth, no trousers - again.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique

Why do you insist that Europol stats are 'my stats'? I'm not a European Police official and I didn't compile the reports - they did and they define what terrorist acts go into the statistics. You can check for yourself whether manure spreading protestors are classified as terrorists (they aren't by ...

shafique

everybody on this forum condemns terrorists attacks as well as criminal attacks. Nope. Fail. I've given links to posts from the only people in this thread who refuse to condemn all forms of terrorism. What you should say is that people make a difference between terrorist and criminal attacks. No. e...

shafique

Try reading the post Mel - it's shorter than a book and contains all the verses you require, in context. (Note this is the Politics section, not religion) Edit: The religion forum has a number of threads on Islam and terrorism - let me know what confuses you in those threads. This one includes Quran...

shafique

^The point is that the Quran does not contain any verse which says a parent can kill their child for rebellion - and this just appears to be a fantastical interpretation by some anti-Muslim bloggers. I could quote the Quran and say it says 'Do not pray'. These words do appear in the Quran, in that o...

shafique

2:190 Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you , but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. 002.191 : And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have Turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at t...

shafique

eh - a simple - 'no, I could not find a religous leader that agrees with the blogger's argument' would have sufficed.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique

LOL. Let me repeat: 'Those who fight you' does not equal 'all non-Muslims'. I cite the example of the Christian Kingdom of Abysinnia which was friendly to the early Muslims. But, as I said - let's get back to this thread's topics. Weird interpretations of the Quran are best examined in the religion ...

shafique

^Killing of apostates is a different issue Mel - we've had already an example from Saudi. It is the fantastical claim by eh about the Quran teaching it is ok to kill rebellious children that is without foundation and seems to be only a figment of an anti-Islamic blogger's mind. eh dug himself a hole...

shafique

Well, the young lad quoted a verse of the Quran - insisted this said the Quran said it was ok to kill rebellious children, and was challenged to find one religious scholar who agreed with this interpretation. So far he has failed - but it is nice of you to help him out though. (But even allowing for...

shafique

You're right you know - about the Quran not having any verse about killing apsotates.

But let's not digress - let's wait and see whether eh ever emerges from the hole you've tried to help him out of.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique

LOL - nice bit of fun.

I (as a Brit) thought the thread was about 'going commando' - we would say 'no trousers day'!

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique

^Key words are: Punishment (for the crime of): Wage War Mischief through land (anarchy?) and List of punishments ranging from execution, through to exile. Waging war against Allah and His Messenger - can literally only be fulfilled during the lifetime of the Prophet. Therefore, literally, this 'crim...

shafique

Have we got any examples of Muslim religious leaders using these stanzas to support people killing their children? So far it is a 'No'. (But thanks to eh for sharing his thoughts - but the 'I think' statements are irrelevant to the question posed. What random anti-Muslim bloggers think about a book...

shafique

^I've noticed that this a common 'smoke and mirrors' tactic when answers to the original topic can't be found. ;) I asked what the verse listing punishments for those waging war and creating mischief in the land has to do with the question whether the Quran says ALL non-believers should be killed. I...

shafique

^Good luck if you think that either eh or Mel are going to read a cut and paste of legal bill. :roll: The item you've highlighted is actually from May 2010 and the ELEVENTH item on the timeline - and you could have quoted the short version: Tennessee Bans Sharia May 27, 2010 Tennessee Gov. Phil Bred...

shafique

^I'm also fascinated by the origins of languages - Bill Bryson's 'Mother Tongue' is a good, 'easy' , book on the origins and quirks of the English language - I recommend it. DK - the pedant in me forces me to say that 'English' is indeed a modern language as zubber pointed out - distinct from Middle...

shafique

^I refer you to the Christian kingdom of Abysynnia (again). But we are straying from the point - the Quran does not have any verse which says that ALL non-Muslims should be killed. I think this central fact is now clear. Other beliefs/myths about spreading the faith by the sword etc can be dealt wit...

shafique

You said to refer to the treatment of non-Muslims in the time of the Prophet. I referred you to the Christian Kingdom of Abysinnia. You do realise that the fact they weren't attacked - when states further away were attacked - undermines your whole argument that ALL non-Muslims should be killed (let ...

shafique

LOL indeed. Your bluff has been called - you said 'start with the Prophet's time' - if you do so and look to see how the Christian Kingdom of ABYSSINIA (I checked the spelling this time) you'll find that it wasn't attacked because it was a friendly kingdom. (it is not spelled Abysinna as you wrote i...

shafique

:lol: Do you think the Vulture was trained to send back info using Twitter? :blackeye: You've gotta love the UK tabloids for their spin though - one thing we're surely the best at! (Well, we'll gloss over the fact that some English guys supposedly tried and hung a monkey on the charge of being a Fre...

shafique

Chocs - you and I have different views on the benefits of religion vs no religion - but I agree with you that religion can be misused. Mel - the Jews that fought the Prophet and broke truces with him and helped the Meccans who were trying to kill the Muslims, were indeed fought against. The Christia...

shafique

The UK already does - it also recognised Jewish courts. Both relate to family court issues - such as divorce. But the general principle is yes - I'd be in favour of any system of law that my fellow citizens approve of - including the principles of Shariah, as long as the whole principles are abided ...

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shafique - Posts

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Islamophobia in US - 2010 Timeline

Re: Moderate Muslims condemn bombing, deny Muslim involvment

Re: Man To Lose His Eye And Ear - Based On The Koran

Re: Moderate Muslims Condemn Bombing, Deny Muslim Involvment

Re: Moderate Muslims Condemn Bombing, Deny Muslim Involvment

Re: Moderate Muslims Condemn Bombing, Deny Muslim Involvment

Re: Man To Lose His Eye And Ear - Based On The Koran

Re: Moderate Muslims Condemn Bombing, Deny Muslim Involvment

Re: Man To Lose His Eye And Ear - Based On The Koran

Re: Moderate Muslims Condemn Bombing, Deny Muslim Involvment

Re: Man To Lose His Eye And Ear - Based On The Koran

Re: Man To Lose His Eye And Ear - Based On The Koran

Re: Man To Lose His Eye And Ear - Based On The Koran

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Re: Man to lose his eye and ear - based on the Koran

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Re: Does Quran Say Kill ALL Non-believers?

Re: Does Quran Say Kill ALL Non-believers?

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Re: Does Quran Say Kill ALL Non-believers?

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