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shafique

Hey, I was just picking up on the fact that the movie will be telling the true message of Islam.

I know some of you think you are experts on the subject - but why don't we wait and see what the film shows and see whether it agrees with your views on early Islam or not?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique

Whilst some here incessantly repeat discredited Orientalist views about early Islam and the Holy Prophet, Muhammad, pbuh - some non-Muslim scholars have gone beyond the hype, researched the facts and reached the the conclusion that there is a gulf between the 'Fox News' portrayal of Islam and realit...

shafique

Well, let us take one example. When Kennedy reaches his conclusion in 'Great Arab Conquests' that the early Muslim conquests were not characterised by Massacres and were generally peaceful and productive aquisitions of territory - doesn't he dispel your Orientalist view of the bloodthirsty saracens ...

shafique

The terrorist attacks were carried out by the "National Holy Army" and were undertaken by Christian Converts. As I've said, my figures are not completely accurate - they are an underestimate - the real number is higher than the 232 I have counted and I've invited you to verify this fact. B...

shafique

Why don't we wait and see what the film shows and then see whether anyone (you or I) have an issue about it. I'm sure I'd have an issue if Geert Wilders made a film that purported to be a 'true' portrayal of Islam - but then again, so would all the modern day scholars who laugh at the quaint Orienta...

shafique

Indeed - I was just replying to your question about proof that modern day historians disagree with your quaint orientalist views and asked whetr you had actually read a book you quoted from on the subject.

But hey, why let facts get in the way of a discredited belief eh?

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique

Sorry, what was your count and what do you think my count should be? I've challenged you a number of times now to back up your claim that my count is inaccurate (when it is just an underestimate). All mouth no trousers, yet again. Is it just because you are embarrassed that despite all your bluster ...

shafique

Yeah, yeah - Father O'Conner and Professor Hans Kung are less knowledgeable about the history of the NT than you are and anyone who disagrees with your view of Islamic history hasn't done the in-depth research you have done. I'm just starting with Hart who clearly gives his reasons why Muhammad, pbu...

shafique

Yawn.

I see you are reverting to type and ignoring the question about whether you actually read the whole of Hugh Kennedy's book 'Great Arab Conquests' before you decided he was wrong and your Orientalist views were right.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique

Double Yawn.

My figures are an underestimate and is 232 actual terrorists.

Your figures are yet to make an appearance - at the last count you gave, it stood at 6.

Now we just get excuses. Says it all.

(Are you really having trouble counting beyond 6??)

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique

I happen to believe in what I have quoted Hart as saying - unlike the people you have quoted, I agree with what he says fully and in full context. You have had to dis-own what Hugh Kennedy says about early Muslim campaigns after quoting him selectively and drawing wrong conclusions about massacres. ...

shafique

I see, thanks for confirming that you hadn't read all of Kennedy - that explains a lot. You haven't read the whole of the Quran either, I recall you saying. Can you see a pattern here that explains why you keep getting things wrong? I don't pretend to know more about Judaism than those who practice ...

shafique

I'm having absolutely no problems laughing at you lame attempts to divert attention from your count of 6 compared to my under estimate of 232. Christian Convert Terrorists' intentions don't matter much to those 200+ who were killed by them. So tell us, please, what is your latest count? (And feel fr...

shafique

So we agree Kung and O'Conner disagree with you over your denial that misogynistic verses (contradictory ones) were inserted by Pauline Christians into the Bible. Fair enough - it took some time, but good that you've now acknowledged this. I'm still waiting to read what exactly you disagree in Hart'...

shafique

You make some good points. I had to start this thread when eh refused to condemn Goldstein as a religious terrorist who based his actions on the Bible - and yet insisted that Muslim terrorists are basing their actions on his misinterpretations of the Quran. What most grown up debaters realise is tha...

shafique

You quoted Kennedy in support of your fanatastical view that early Muslims carried out loads of massacres. You argued that this was in accordance with your misinterpretation of Quranic verses. The fact that Kennedy concluded completely the opposite from you understandably caused you some embarrassme...

shafique

So, we continue to wait to see whether eh can count beyond 6 actual terrorists and whether his count of Christian Convert terrorists is below 232 or not.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique

I understand you don't have problems condemning bombings carried out by Middle Easterners - it appears only the killings carried out by White Jewish people that you can't condemn. Any other traits you'd like to share with us? Anyway, what Goldstein shows is that the Bible can be used to justify the ...

shafique

You argue that when Christian Convert terrorists kill and say they are just fighting to be independent - this is ok, but when a Muslim targets an occupying soldiers, this is terrorism. I personally would condemn the killing of innocents as terrorism - but Islamophobes tend to not agree to this defin...

shafique

So you can't explain what you disagree in the quotation I gave.

I knew this would end up in another 'all mouth, no trousers' revelation.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique

As I said, I'm glad you've admitted to not having read Kennedy's whole book - and I agree that I got my quote from the review from the Economist (I actually gave the reference) - I'm sure the reviewer did read the book completely. I never claimed to be an expert in Rabbinical Judaism - I just pointe...

shafique

So, you've reached 7 actual terrorists then?

Bravo.

When you do give your updated count, can you list the new ones (above the 6 already given, so I can check your figures) - I've given you the source for my 232 so you can re-count.

Cheers,
Shafique

shafique

The question I asked was quite simple - what do you disagree with in the quote I gave from Hart in the first post. I understand you want me to deal with Kung disagreeing with you about contradictions in the Bible - but there is a thread on that subject - 'Contradictions in the NT' - we can take that...

shafique

Why run away from what the Quran actually says and what the military historian Hugh Kennedy concludes? I'm sorry that the facts don't fit your Orientalist fantasy about early Islam or Islamic theology, but sometimes we have to face harsh realities. I understand that having only counted 7 actual Musl...

shafique

What the Quran says and what Kennedy concludes have been well referenced above. You really should read what is written before jumping to the wrong conclusions. I fully understand that you wish to ignore facts and believe in Orientalist Islamophobic spin - and that is your right. For me, I'll stick w...

shafique

Why would you want to bring the issue of your claim up in another thread when you posted the lie in this thread[? I provided the link for anyone to click on and read for themselves. Hart says something that Kung etc agree with and that you argue you know better - see the quote I highlighted about P...

shafique

As for eminent scholars, I have merely quoted Father O'Conner who has written books about Paul and is an author of books on the Canon, and Professor Hans Kung, a scholar you chose to quote. On the other hand, you have failed to produce one (yes one ) scholar that agrees with your quaint view that th...

shafique

I see you are avoiding my simple question about what specifically you disagree with Hart's words in my first post. Fair enough - you tend to over-react when I remind you that Biblical scholars also laugh at your assertion that the Bible contains no contradictions or that Pauline Christians did not i...

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shafique - Posts

Holy Prophet, pbuh - some modern views

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